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Post by iamkristinl16 on Nov 7, 2024 21:36:25 GMT
For me, there were a few concerns: she has very little international diplomatic experience and would require extensive "on-the-job training." She was literally Biden's right-hand person and had to have known that his dementia was worsening, yet she didn't speak up. I sometimes wonder if she remained silent because she anticipated sliding into his position at the last moment to secure the Democratic nomination. She was selected, not elected, to run for president, and that bothers me. Additionally, she has flip-flopped on policy far too often. I believe that if she had more time to develop her policies and had gone through the process like the other candidates, my opinion might be different. After the debate there were plenty of people who went on TV saying that they have regular conversations with Biden and they did not notice anything serious like the debate performance. He also has not had any particularly bad days like that since. It really could have been that he was tired and coming down with something. I still think his age is a concern, and that is a reason why. But I don't really buy into the idea that Democrats or Harris "hid" his cognitive decline. And even if she did notice something, how do you know it wasn't addressed privately? Did you expect her to go on national TV saying that the President has dementia? I mean, I asked the peas about some age related concerns with my co-worker a few years ago and IIRC was told not to say anything because it's not appropriate. Imagine how that would go with the POTUS and the VP. How many people are responsible for ignoring Trump's cognitive and mental impairment? |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Nov 7, 2024 21:45:07 GMT
Particularly when we see him out there every day!
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Post by hopemax on Nov 7, 2024 22:23:06 GMT
This is a question that resonated with me, as one or two of my posts allude to, but not as directly as this phrasing, and fits into this discussion. It's from a Poly Sci Asst Professor on Bluesky who has his posts set to be logged in, so I'm just copying it "The new question for the liberal world that must be answered: How do you govern well when voters punish good governance?" And if you do have a Bluesky account: bsky.app/profile/darinself.bsky.social/post/3labttjy2nj2v |
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Post by FuzzyMutt on Nov 7, 2024 22:27:39 GMT
I’ve been saying for months that I was going to vote for Biden (- then Harris) and I hated it.
I didn’t like Walz. He’s no more honest than anyone in the R ticket. Lied, misled, and literally got annoyed when he was called on it. Every sentence started with… “In MN…..” He was never on a stage big enough to actually be vetted and he was more interested in telling us what was great about MN (meanwhile literally mentioning Medtronic… and saying they are headquartered there…. They were, but it’s been at least 5 years since they moved their HQ to Ireland.) If you’re going to say these things, at least make sure they are true. Oh, and Medtronic moved manufacturing jobs overseas…. Great example. Almost but should have been DUI, “combat”, rank… I think Kamala’s team picked him and trusted him to be who he was presented as. He certainly didn’t help. Although his Vance gotcha at the end of their debate was the best moment of this whole election process, to me.
Speaking of “Kamala’s team.” Yes, she really could have separated herself from Biden more. But…. We all know that politics just doesn’t work that way.
I’ve said here, multiple times, that the Biden/Harris administration with their proposed forgiven student loans, let in everyone (perception not my belief), “taxpayer funded a ex changes for inmates…” homebuyers credit, child care credits etc basically wants to tax me to death to pay for the bad choices of others.
Most of the Trumpers I know are self made. (Notice I said ***I know***) I have worked my ass off to separate myself from generational poverty. I personally am a rule follower. So the whole illegal immigration is ok… free this and free that… forgive loans people benefitted from… credits to some people while withholding from others simply because they earned their way.
Joe Biden was elected to literally “not be Trump.” But he decided he wanted to be FDR (infrastructure) tried to ram student loan forgiveness down our throats, and literally did nothing to deal with the influx of people here illegally (ok—- yeah.. the surge stop measures- I can’t roll my eyes enough.
I know a lot of people (including me) were pissed to have to vote for “not Trump again. I was happy it wasn’t Biden again. But Kamala Harris was never a candidate I would have wanted to vote for.
The American people were denied a primary. It’s very possible the Dems could have come up with a better ticket. But they basically ran a lame duck and a guy who should stick to duck hunting.
That’s what’s “wrong with” Kamala Harris. Nothing has changed. Saying the same things I’ve been saying. They same thing the commentators finally started saying out loud around 11 pm on election night.
Keep distilling it down to race and gender. Forget about the condescending attitude y’all have. Forget about the lack of electoral process with her crowning. Forget about the racist assumptions that black men and POC would vote for her because she’s a woman and POC. Forget about the way the Dems have abandoned working class people in favor of the “educated elites…” (Pick your term- there are plenty of them floating around out there-) and don’t come for me, it’s well reported and you know how to search for information. You guys focused on this stupid “your vote is your secret” and assumed women were default (another assumption) and the only thing that would sway them is these overbearing husbands lol Pretty offensive.
BTW (whoever)… I’m sure you’re already formulating your canned response that I’m an idiot lol.. but I’ll give you another thought that you may not have considered. A bazillion years ago, when I was in the military, I met a lot of foreign born people who joined our military to fast track to citizenship. I work in biotech, and work with a ton of people from India, China, Japan, S Korea, Cambodia, Vietnam and Malaysia. Most that are in the process of EARNING their citizenship have ZERO patience for people here illegally.
I know the bootstraps stance is considered baaaaaaaaaaaaaad around here.
Hate it all you want, but it doesn’t make its merit go away. Nor does it make the people that have earned their way in this world with hard work, determination, willingness to take a chance, do the dirty work and make sacrifices don’t want to redistribute their wealth. Period. There are a lot of successful people that take PRIDE in earning their way and not depending on government programs. Trump is an idiot- an asshole idiot. And the whole “black jobs” schtick is absolutely offensive. But what alot of you, here, forget is that there are ALOT of people of color that are successful, doing every sort of job.
But that’s why Trump won. I’m not a political strategist lol and I am just a lowly engineer. But I sure am good with root cause. But keep telling yourself Kamala Harris lost because of racist woman haters. Because that’s working for the Dem party. Lost the House and Senate too! Must be because something is wrong with “Kamala.”
Why not look at it from an overview perspective? People have been telling you for years. Maybe it takes this bullshit farce of an “election” to wake y’all up to the fact that people don’t want a welfare state.
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Post by lisae on Nov 7, 2024 22:45:15 GMT
I think what turned me off of her a bit, is when asked, what would you have done differently then Biden? and she said nothing. she couldn't think of anything. I think she should have said the economy, the border, she should have said something. I know she was in a hard spot. but that really turned people off, thinking that nothing would change under her. If there was one moment in the entire campaign (all 3+ months of it!), that would be the one to go back and changed. Trump used that against her in negative ads. Obviously there were things that could have been done better and she should have been prepared for it. Harris wasn't my first choice for VP and I really wanted an open convention right after Biden's debate but as time went on, there was really no other choice but Harris. She impressed me more as the campaign progressed. Also the more I got to know about her, the more I felt she had the experience to lead. I really liked her early in the 2020 campaign but mainly other candidates like Amy Klobuchar impressed me more. I think if we had had a primary process where she would have had to go up against other democrats and had the chance to hone her message and be more detailed in her policy proposals she would have done much better. It's impossible to say but I'd guess if that had occurred there was probably a 50/50 chance the nominee would have been her rather than someone else. There are so many good democratic candidates and that may be the problem. She's being compared to a lot of really great people. |
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peabay
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,940
Jun 25, 2014 19:50:41 GMT
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Post by peabay on Nov 7, 2024 23:12:48 GMT
She campaigned for moderate Republicans and not to the far left. The far left stayed home. I don't think there's enough of the far left to bring her over the top. Most people say their views are moderate (and not enough say they are far left.) What I do think is that we live in a patriarchal society who were uncomfortable with a female president. I was shocked at how many people said she was unqualified - they said the same thing about Hilary Clinton. How is a person who was a senator and secretary of state unqualified? How is a person who was a senator and the vice president unqualified? When the person they elected had literally no government experience when first elected? The only answer is she's a woman. And I'm not sure how we get around this. I think Tim Walz could've been elected if he was top of the ticket. It's insane but I think it's true. |
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Post by hopemax on Nov 7, 2024 23:23:25 GMT
BTW (whoever)… I’m sure you’re already formulating your canned response that I’m an idiot lol.. but I’ll give you another thought that you may not have considered. A bazillion years ago, when I was in the military, I met a lot of foreign born people who joined our military to fast track to citizenship. I work in biotech, and work with a ton of people from India, China, Japan, S Korea, Cambodia, Vietnam and Malaysia. Most that are in the process of EARNING their citizenship have ZERO patience for people here illegally. I know you don't think much of my commentary, but what the hell... These people are about to learn that why they may view themselves differently than those "illegals," the people just elected do not. "Immigrants are poisoning the blood of this country," does not differentiate. Human rights are human rights regardless if an individual had a specific country's proper documents. How badly those are about to be violated under the name of the United States of America, we are about to learn. People have been telling you for years. Maybe it takes this bullshit farce of an “election” to wake y’all up to the fact that people don’t want a welfare state. Given what voters have said about their expectations of government in regards to the price of housing and lack of help for the working class, I wouldn't bet the farm on that, just yet. They just don't consider *that* welfare. I haven't seen too many "Isn't it great that market forces have elevated the entry price level for housing so high" takes. Either they want financial assistance programs or government injecting themselves into the process of how Home Building businesses operate, or to whom housing is sold, or interference with the FED regarding interest rates, etc. If you listen to what people have said, vs what you believe, people are tired of being told to "bootstrap" while they see hoarding of things they need, by billionaires and corporations. And when Biden and the Democrats didn't just wave a magic wand and make their personal financial woes all just disappear, that's what pissed them off. I am positive that if working class people were to keep the entirety of their paycheck, all taxes vanish overnight, working class people would still find themselves unable to afford the lifestyle they think they should have, because just like foregoing a Starbucks coffee, it's not enough to close the gap. People can't bootstrap their way out out of structural inequality. This is the fight humans have had for millennia and this is just another round of it. |
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amom23
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,446 
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Post by amom23 on Nov 7, 2024 23:46:47 GMT
Absolutely nothing was wrong with Kamala Harris.
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Post by wezee on Nov 8, 2024 2:37:04 GMT
Frankly I don’t think it was because she is a woman of color. She was doomed even before she started. You don’t dump a candidate choose another candidate and give them 3or 4 months and expect them to be victorious. People say She wasn’t able to articulate her stances. That’s because she was still forming her stance. She should have been slated as soon as the President showed a decline. The Democratic Party used her as a sacrificial lamb. The party humiliated the president publicly. In my opinion that move was disgraceful. President Biden deserved better. Say what you what about his ability to lead. No one can say he wasn’t a proud & honorable man who served our county to the best of his ability. He didn’t deserve to be treated the way he was. I lost a lot respect for the Democratic Party
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samantha25
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by samantha25 on Nov 8, 2024 2:42:37 GMT
Yes, because she is a woman and has no dick. She always had her stance and was VP. Does someone need to talk over and over for years?
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Post by aj2hall on Nov 8, 2024 2:49:46 GMT
For me, there were a few concerns: she has very little international diplomatic experience and would require extensive "on-the-job training." She was literally Biden's right-hand person and had to have known that his dementia was worsening, yet she didn't speak up. I sometimes wonder if she remained silent because she anticipated sliding into his position at the last moment to secure the Democratic nomination. She was selected, not elected, to run for president, and that bothers me. Additionally, she has flip-flopped on policy far too often. I believe that if she had more time to develop her policies and had gone through the process like the other candidates, my opinion might be different. Harris met with 150 different heads of state as VP. How much more international experience do you want her to have? Trump had zero diplomatic experience and Vance has none. I posted this in another thread, but it's relevant here too. In defense of Biden, I think his poor debate performance can be attributed in part to a few things - his speech impairment, covid (the beginning or just recovering? I forget the exact timing)lack of sleep and jet lag (he had just returned from a quick trip to Europe). Also, Trump's debate style - to toss out lies in a firehouse fashion is particularly challenging for anyone, but especially someone with a speech impairment. Without question, Biden has aged physically in his time in the White House. But, I think the debate performance was an outlier and not a fair representation of his cognitive ability. If the debate was typical, the White House would not have been able to keep that a secret. Biden meets with so many people every day, people from different countries, politicians from both parties, everyday Americans etc. It would not be possible to keep that secret. And no one who has met with him recently criticized his cognitive abilities, decline or performance. Listening to Biden the morning after the debate and in other press conferences, he's back to normal for him. Also, maybe if Harris had more time, she could have won. However, more time would also have given conservative media and Republicans time to attack her. And in her defense, her policy proposals are on her website. She talked about them and all of her surrogates campaigning for her talked about them. In comparison, Trump got a pass for vague plans, we're working on them and astonishingly little detail or specifics. As Michelle Obama said, Harris was expected to dazzle everyone with her policy and no one asked Trump challenging questions or pushed him for details. Or in Van Jones words, Harris has to be flawless and Trump was lawless. |
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Post by aj2hall on Nov 8, 2024 3:09:59 GMT
I’ve been saying for months that I was going to vote for Biden (- then Harris) and I hated it. I didn’t like Walz. He’s no more honest than anyone in the R ticket. Lied, misled, and literally got annoyed when he was called on it. Every sentence started with… “In MN…..” He was never on a stage big enough to actually be vetted and he was more interested in telling us what was great about MN (meanwhile literally mentioning Medtronic… and saying they are headquartered there…. They were, but it’s been at least 5 years since they moved their HQ to Ireland.) If you’re going to say these things, at least make sure they are true. Oh, and Medtronic moved manufacturing jobs overseas…. Great example. Almost but should have been DUI, “combat”, rank… I think Kamala’s team picked him and trusted him to be who he was presented as. He certainly didn’t help. Although his Vance gotcha at the end of their debate was the best moment of this whole election process, to me. Speaking of “Kamala’s team.” Yes, she really could have separated herself from Biden more. But…. We all know that politics just doesn’t work that way. I’ve said here, multiple times, that the Biden/Harris administration with their proposed forgiven student loans, let in everyone (perception not my belief), “taxpayer funded a ex changes for inmates…” homebuyers credit, child care credits etc basically wants to tax me to death to pay for the bad choices of others. Most of the Trumpers I know are self made. (Notice I said ***I know***) I have worked my ass off to separate myself from generational poverty. I personally am a rule follower. So the whole illegal immigration is ok… free this and free that… forgive loans people benefitted from… credits to some people while withholding from others simply because they earned their way. Joe Biden was elected to literally “not be Trump.” But he decided he wanted to be FDR (infrastructure) tried to ram student loan forgiveness down our throats, and literally did nothing to deal with the influx of people here illegally (ok—- yeah.. the surge stop measures- I can’t roll my eyes enough. I know a lot of people (including me) were pissed to have to vote for “not Trump again. I was happy it wasn’t Biden again. But Kamala Harris was never a candidate I would have wanted to vote for. The American people were denied a primary. It’s very possible the Dems could have come up with a better ticket. But they basically ran a lame duck and a guy who should stick to duck hunting. That’s what’s “wrong with” Kamala Harris. Nothing has changed. Saying the same things I’ve been saying. They same thing the commentators finally started saying out loud around 11 pm on election night. Keep distilling it down to race and gender. Forget about the condescending attitude y’all have. Forget about the lack of electoral process with her crowning. Forget about the racist assumptions that black men and POC would vote for her because she’s a woman and POC. Forget about the way the Dems have abandoned working class people in favor of the “educated elites…” (Pick your term- there are plenty of them floating around out there-) and don’t come for me, it’s well reported and you know how to search for information. You guys focused on this stupid “your vote is your secret” and assumed women were default (another assumption) and the only thing that would sway them is these overbearing husbands lol Pretty offensive. BTW (whoever)… I’m sure you’re already formulating your canned response that I’m an idiot lol.. but I’ll give you another thought that you may not have considered. A bazillion years ago, when I was in the military, I met a lot of foreign born people who joined our military to fast track to citizenship. I work in biotech, and work with a ton of people from India, China, Japan, S Korea, Cambodia, Vietnam and Malaysia. Most that are in the process of EARNING their citizenship have ZERO patience for people here illegally. I know the bootstraps stance is considered baaaaaaaaaaaaaad around here. Hate it all you want, but it doesn’t make its merit go away. Nor does it make the people that have earned their way in this world with hard work, determination, willingness to take a chance, do the dirty work and make sacrifices don’t want to redistribute their wealth. Period. There are a lot of successful people that take PRIDE in earning their way and not depending on government programs. Trump is an idiot- an asshole idiot. And the whole “black jobs” schtick is absolutely offensive. But what alot of you, here, forget is that there are ALOT of people of color that are successful, doing every sort of job. But that’s why Trump won. I’m not a political strategist lol and I am just a lowly engineer. But I sure am good with root cause. But keep telling yourself Kamala Harris lost because of racist woman haters. Because that’s working for the Dem party. Lost the House and Senate too! Must be because something is wrong with “Kamala.” Why not look at it from an overview perspective? People have been telling you for years. Maybe it takes this bullshit farce of an “election” to wake y’all up to the fact that people don’t want a welfare state. This isn't directed at you specifically, but I think some people object to benefits for other people. If they personally benefit from government support, then they agree with that particular benefit. There was a recent you-tube video of an interview of a Trump supporter. She was asked about her objection to Democrats and their policies and she objected to people being entitled. But then, she mentioned working hard for her Social security and Medicare and didn't want to see that cut. Republicans unfortunately, have a history of targeting people who receive benefits (welfare queens) and there is a stigma associated with food stamps, welfare, housing assistance etc. Look at all of the mis/disinformation out there about benefits for people who are here legally seeking asylum. Another recent example - in 2023, Iowa Republicans approved a plan to spend $18 million to kick people off federally funded food stamps. Unfortunately, from some people's perspective, it comes down to who they deem "worthy" of support. From my perspective, some Republicans and conservative media are pushing the narrative that it's a zero sum game. If I want to get ahead, it has to be at the expense of someone else. And conversely, if someone else is getting benefits, that makes me worse off. www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/04/16/iowa-snap-restrictions-food-stamps/www.pbs.org/independentlens/blog/from-mothers-pensions-to-welfare-queens-debunking-myths-about-welfare/ |
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Post by FuzzyMutt on Nov 8, 2024 22:53:00 GMT
BTW (whoever)… I’m sure you’re already formulating your canned response that I’m an idiot lol.. but I’ll give you another thought that you may not have considered. A bazillion years ago, when I was in the military, I met a lot of foreign born people who joined our military to fast track to citizenship. I work in biotech, and work with a ton of people from India, China, Japan, S Korea, Cambodia, Vietnam and Malaysia. Most that are in the process of EARNING their citizenship have ZERO patience for people here illegally. I know you don't think much of my commentary, but what the hell... These people are about to learn that why they may view themselves differently than those "illegals," the people just elected do not. "Immigrants are poisoning the blood of this country," does not differentiate. Human rights are human rights regardless if an individual had a specific country's proper documents. How badly those are about to be violated under the name of the United States of America, we are about to learn. People have been telling you for years. Maybe it takes this bullshit farce of an “election” to wake y’all up to the fact that people don’t want a welfare state. Given what voters have said about their expectations of government in regards to the price of housing and lack of help for the working class, I wouldn't bet the farm on that, just yet. They just don't consider *that* welfare. I haven't seen too many "Isn't it great that market forces have elevated the entry price level for housing so high" takes. Either they want financial assistance programs or government injecting themselves into the process of how Home Building businesses operate, or to whom housing is sold, or interference with the FED regarding interest rates, etc. If you listen to what people have said, vs what you believe, people are tired of being told to "bootstrap" while they see hoarding of things they need, by billionaires and corporations. And when Biden and the Democrats didn't just wave a magic wand and make their personal financial woes all just disappear, that's what pissed them off. I am positive that if working class people were to keep the entirety of their paycheck, all taxes vanish overnight, working class people would still find themselves unable to afford the lifestyle they think they should have, because just like foregoing a Starbucks coffee, it's not enough to close the gap. People can't bootstrap their way out out of structural inequality. This is the fight humans have had for millennia and this is just another round of it. I don't disagree with much of what you wrote- tbh. I hope to hell that there is a very very clear distinction between those that are here and following the path to citizenship (or already citizens--- some of the proudest and most productive Americans I know <3) Sadly, I think that there is so much fear (and hate and ignorance) that if a person doesn't look or sound like they are "from here".... the assumption will be that they aren't- and that's just awful and truly will be a shame. Trump clearly stoked the fears of uneducated folks- people that likely don't have much exposure to people from varied backgrounds, and people who are insulated from the reality of the flavor and color that people from other countries bring to the texture of our lives. Until Nov 6, I really just thought it was a shame for them to miss out. Now, I feel it will be a collective nationwide shame. I agree with you that when you dig into these programs, there is alot of nuance that most voters don't want to spend the time to educate themselves. Nothing pisses a Boomer off more than reminding them that SS is an entitlement program. OMG do they freak the hell out- I WoRkeD foR tHat and PaiD iN!!! Well... I've been working for over 30 years and paid in- why can't I count on it to be there for me?? Not to mention all the housewives who never worked a day in their lives (ok.. now they are pissed... how about never worked enough to earn enough credits to qualify on their own? How about worked at a rate that, even with compounded interest couldn't take the edge off the payments they've gotten over the years based on their husbands record?) But---- that's not welfare------ (eyeroll.) They are also the same people that will rail about providing SS to mentally disabled or other forms of disability that "didn't include losing a leg in the great war." They are the same people that half of their circle is getting foodstamps etc and they have NO issue "buying" the extra" (they are selling it anyway..... or so the rational goes.) When you grow up watching people abuse the system- you either accept it and join in, or you distance yourself from it and work to improve your situation. That's bootstraps. People can be tired of hearing it all they want. Improving YOURSELF and your CIRCUMSTANCES is a choice. Believe me, I have listened to what people have said. They said it really loudly on Tuesday. Will you? They don't want more government welfare programs to benefit the illegals. They don't want more welfare to those unwilling to work. They don't want to hold the bag for student loans for people who got college degrees and make more money than they do in many cases. AND---- they sure as hell don't want to hold the bag for those that took out loans, didn't finish their education and put it to use. And, while I'm using the word they- I want to make sure it is clear that I am part of this cohort. I agree with you that if taxes were to magically go away that people would not be able to afford their lifestyles. In many cases, they wouldn't be able to afford sustenance. Those that rail about property taxes would be the first to bitch if property taxes went away and they had to buy into police or fire. And they wouldn't (just like those that don't buy insurance then cry poor mouth when chance comes to call.) Then when something happens, woe is me. Believe me- I understand what you are saying. I find myself cringing every time my brother bitches about "I pay their salary- my taxes _________.." That f*cker hasn't had a legit job in 20 years, and has worked under the table more than above it. Even when he IS "paying" taxes, he gets them all back lol. But that doesn't stop him from pontificating. And he's going to be the first to bitch that his SS check is either small, or non-existent. But that won't happen. The bar is so damn low. You aren't telling me anything I don't know. As I said... I'm pissed at the amount of taxes I pay, Fed, State, SS, Local, Property, Sales, excise and god knows what I am forgetting, because I earn a nice living (I did say EARN.) I scraped my way out of generational poverty and all I can liken the Trumpers at home to is a bucket of crabs, trying to yank each one that makes it way to the rim of the bucket- allllmost out- and yanks them back in. I'm not saying I AGREE with the mindset. I am saying Trump capitalized on it. The Dems assumed alot of things, about alot of people---- and were WRONG. |
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Post by FuzzyMutt on Nov 8, 2024 23:05:47 GMT
I’ve been saying for months that I was going to vote for Biden (- then Harris) and I hated it. I didn’t like Walz. He’s no more honest than anyone in the R ticket. Lied, misled, and literally got annoyed when he was called on it. Every sentence started with… “In MN…..” He was never on a stage big enough to actually be vetted and he was more interested in telling us what was great about MN (meanwhile literally mentioning Medtronic… and saying they are headquartered there…. They were, but it’s been at least 5 years since they moved their HQ to Ireland.) If you’re going to say these things, at least make sure they are true. Oh, and Medtronic moved manufacturing jobs overseas…. Great example. Almost but should have been DUI, “combat”, rank… I think Kamala’s team picked him and trusted him to be who he was presented as. He certainly didn’t help. Although his Vance gotcha at the end of their debate was the best moment of this whole election process, to me. Speaking of “Kamala’s team.” Yes, she really could have separated herself from Biden more. But…. We all know that politics just doesn’t work that way. I’ve said here, multiple times, that the Biden/Harris administration with their proposed forgiven student loans, let in everyone (perception not my belief), “taxpayer funded a ex changes for inmates…” homebuyers credit, child care credits etc basically wants to tax me to death to pay for the bad choices of others. Most of the Trumpers I know are self made. (Notice I said ***I know***) I have worked my ass off to separate myself from generational poverty. I personally am a rule follower. So the whole illegal immigration is ok… free this and free that… forgive loans people benefitted from… credits to some people while withholding from others simply because they earned their way. Joe Biden was elected to literally “not be Trump.” But he decided he wanted to be FDR (infrastructure) tried to ram student loan forgiveness down our throats, and literally did nothing to deal with the influx of people here illegally (ok—- yeah.. the surge stop measures- I can’t roll my eyes enough. I know a lot of people (including me) were pissed to have to vote for “not Trump again. I was happy it wasn’t Biden again. But Kamala Harris was never a candidate I would have wanted to vote for. The American people were denied a primary. It’s very possible the Dems could have come up with a better ticket. But they basically ran a lame duck and a guy who should stick to duck hunting. That’s what’s “wrong with” Kamala Harris. Nothing has changed. Saying the same things I’ve been saying. They same thing the commentators finally started saying out loud around 11 pm on election night. Keep distilling it down to race and gender. Forget about the condescending attitude y’all have. Forget about the lack of electoral process with her crowning. Forget about the racist assumptions that black men and POC would vote for her because she’s a woman and POC. Forget about the way the Dems have abandoned working class people in favor of the “educated elites…” (Pick your term- there are plenty of them floating around out there-) and don’t come for me, it’s well reported and you know how to search for information. You guys focused on this stupid “your vote is your secret” and assumed women were default (another assumption) and the only thing that would sway them is these overbearing husbands lol Pretty offensive. BTW (whoever)… I’m sure you’re already formulating your canned response that I’m an idiot lol.. but I’ll give you another thought that you may not have considered. A bazillion years ago, when I was in the military, I met a lot of foreign born people who joined our military to fast track to citizenship. I work in biotech, and work with a ton of people from India, China, Japan, S Korea, Cambodia, Vietnam and Malaysia. Most that are in the process of EARNING their citizenship have ZERO patience for people here illegally. I know the bootstraps stance is considered baaaaaaaaaaaaaad around here. Hate it all you want, but it doesn’t make its merit go away. Nor does it make the people that have earned their way in this world with hard work, determination, willingness to take a chance, do the dirty work and make sacrifices don’t want to redistribute their wealth. Period. There are a lot of successful people that take PRIDE in earning their way and not depending on government programs. Trump is an idiot- an asshole idiot. And the whole “black jobs” schtick is absolutely offensive. But what alot of you, here, forget is that there are ALOT of people of color that are successful, doing every sort of job. But that’s why Trump won. I’m not a political strategist lol and I am just a lowly engineer. But I sure am good with root cause. But keep telling yourself Kamala Harris lost because of racist woman haters. Because that’s working for the Dem party. Lost the House and Senate too! Must be because something is wrong with “Kamala.” Why not look at it from an overview perspective? People have been telling you for years. Maybe it takes this bullshit farce of an “election” to wake y’all up to the fact that people don’t want a welfare state. This isn't directed at you specifically, but I think some people object to benefits for other people. If they personally benefit from government support, then they agree with that particular benefit. There was a recent you-tube video of an interview of a Trump supporter. She was asked about her objection to Democrats and their policies and she objected to people being entitled. But then, she mentioned working hard for her Social security and Medicare and didn't want to see that cut. Republicans unfortunately, have a history of targeting people who receive benefits (welfare queens) and there is a stigma associated with food stamps, welfare, housing assistance etc. Look at all of the mis/disinformation out there about benefits for people who are here legally seeking asylum. Another recent example - in 2023, Iowa Republicans approved a plan to spend $18 million to kick people off federally funded food stamps. Unfortunately, from some people's perspective, it comes down to who they deem "worthy" of support. From my perspective, some Republicans and conservative media are pushing the narrative that it's a zero sum game. If I want to get ahead, it has to be at the expense of someone else. And conversely, if someone else is getting benefits, that makes me worse off. www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/04/16/iowa-snap-restrictions-food-stamps/www.pbs.org/independentlens/blog/from-mothers-pensions-to-welfare-queens-debunking-myths-about-welfare/I sort of responded to this, too, above. This isn't new- in fact, in MI there is (was? I don't know...) a program to provide money to pregnant women. There was no means testing. First child, 10th child, married, single, working, not, wealthy, not etc. It accomplished a couple things... first, if everyone got it- people were much less likely to be against it (like you mentioned above.) Second, it eliminated the need for an expensive administration of people tasked to do the means testing, to try to identify "fraud", and also kept the bad press of "fraud" from tarnishing the program. The result was a net win. I think that was an awesome idea. I guess that's where I'm going with this---- as a continuation to my post above. That's my point. Quit yanking more and more and more out of my paycheck to pay for benefits for others that I am not even (ever!) eligible for. Quit yanking more and more and more out of my paycheck to pay for a bloated administration to get paid handsomely to literally just keep wrapping and rolling red tape. Voters in 1983 allowed the 401k to replace pensions and "traditional" retirement. Ironically, those voters largely still get to benefit from pensions and SS.. While those of us in the modern working world will be LUCKY if SS exists for us. Honestly- I'd like to see it run out of money tomorrow and quit being an issue driving voters. I find it hilarious (in a really really sad and pathetic way.... that voters of either party thinks their party has their best interests at heart when it comes to SS.) I've been "told" my entire life that I would have to work for a living, that I can't count on SS and I have planned accordingly. I'm no smarter than anyone else, and I sure as hell didn't have any advantages over anyone else. It's time for that chess piece to be removed from the political board. |
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Post by pepperwood on Nov 9, 2024 0:48:04 GMT
I have been a bit shocked by the number of woman I have overheard at work and seen on social media that voted for Hillary but didn't vote for Kamala because she wasn't the one who they wanted to be the first female VP because she isn't qualified/earned it. Do you think the difference is that Hillary was very prominent in the media so her experience was well known. Kamala had the experience but it wasn't in the spotlight so there was the association that she wasn't qualified. In terms of their resumes, I think Hillary was more qualified than Kamala. While they were both U. S. Senators, I believe Hillary's foreign policy experience as Secretary of State made her more qualified to serve as President. The Vice President's role is more ceremonial and less defined. I believe experience executing the administration's foreign policy and running the State Department provides more foreign policy experience. Also, I think Kamala was impacted by the low approval rating of the Biden administration, especially when she said she couldn't think of anything that she would have done differently. I believe that voters viewed the Obama administration more favorably than the Biden administration, which probably benefitted Hillary. |
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Post by onelasttime on Nov 9, 2024 0:54:35 GMT
That's my point. Quit yanking more and more and more out of my paycheck to pay for benefits for others that I am not even (ever!) eligible for. Quit yanking more and more and more out of my paycheck to pay for a bloated administration to get paid handsomely to literally just keep wrapping and rolling red tape. Voters in 1983 allowed the 401k to replace pensions and "traditional" retirement. Ironically, those voters largely still get to benefit from pensions and SS.. While those of us in the modern working world will be LUCKY if SS exists for us. Honestly- I'd like to see it run out of money tomorrow and quit being an issue driving voters. I find it hilarious (in a really really sad and pathetic way.... that voters of either party thinks their party has their best interests at heart when it comes to SS.) I've been "told" my entire life that I would have to work for a living, that I can't count on SS and I have planned accordingly. I'm no smarter than anyone else, and I sure as hell didn't have any advantages over anyone else. It's time for that chess piece to be removed from the political board. In reading your post you sound like too much of the Federal Budget goes toward social programs that include SS and Medicare. Curious I asked Google what % of the Federal Budget goes toward social programs. From what I could determine, for every dollar in taxes paid $0.18 to $0.20 goes toward social program. Or $180 per $1,000 paid in taxes. Which makes me wonder how do you feel about how the remaining 80% is spent. Are you ok with it or just flat out don’t like social programs? |
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Post by leftturnonly on Nov 9, 2024 1:05:42 GMT
The outfit Jill Biden choose to wear to vote.  |
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Post by cindosha on Nov 9, 2024 1:09:01 GMT
The outfit Jill Biden choose to wear to vote. IMO that was a big double digit F-you to the dems. |
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Post by onelasttime on Nov 9, 2024 1:29:03 GMT
The outfit Jill Biden choose to wear to vote. IMO that was a big double digit F-you to the dems. How exactly? |
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Post by FuzzyMutt on Nov 9, 2024 1:53:17 GMT
That's my point. Quit yanking more and more and more out of my paycheck to pay for benefits for others that I am not even (ever!) eligible for. Quit yanking more and more and more out of my paycheck to pay for a bloated administration to get paid handsomely to literally just keep wrapping and rolling red tape. Voters in 1983 allowed the 401k to replace pensions and "traditional" retirement. Ironically, those voters largely still get to benefit from pensions and SS.. While those of us in the modern working world will be LUCKY if SS exists for us. Honestly- I'd like to see it run out of money tomorrow and quit being an issue driving voters. I find it hilarious (in a really really sad and pathetic way.... that voters of either party thinks their party has their best interests at heart when it comes to SS.) I've been "told" my entire life that I would have to work for a living, that I can't count on SS and I have planned accordingly. I'm no smarter than anyone else, and I sure as hell didn't have any advantages over anyone else. It's time for that chess piece to be removed from the political board. In reading your post you sound like too much of the Federal Budget goes toward social programs that include SS and Medicare. Curious I asked Google what % of the Federal Budget goes toward social programs. From what I could determine, for every dollar in taxes paid $0.18 to $0.20 goes toward social program. Or $180 per $1,000 paid in taxes. Which makes me wonder how do you feel about how the remaining 80% is spent. Are you ok with it or just flat out don’t like social programs? Bolded mine.... I am not differentiating between Federal and State (mostly because I see them as behaviorally similar- the line items just have different names.) And, much Federal money funnels into these programs and to separate it would take way more brain cells and effort than I would ever want to expend on it. Also, I did not ask Google, nor do I have better or different info regarding what goes to social programs (or what is determined to be a social program for purposes of the specific search...) Answer is the same regardless of whether it is $0.18 or $0.60 on the dollar. Bloated administration. Career politicians. Congressional financial/healthcare benefits (that are beyond what the avg worker gets.) Waste and inefficiency at every.single.level. Are prisons, FBI and IRS part of the federal glacier figured in to that number? I doubt it- but I think they are part of social programs. Campaigning and politicking has completely overtaken the common sense and legislating. Negotiating and working for the betterment of the people is no longer a priority. Getting elected to keep their power and the benefits is their goal. No household budget can possibly operate the way these politicians keep running the government. Yes, I know R Presidents have abused our wallets just as much (if not more...) For context------- I am a veteran. I pledged to defend our country against enemies foreign and domestic- insurrectionists and felons (of all kinds- not just Trump) made Trump an easy no for me in 2024. I worked in civil service (for a very short time) and the quality of the people I worked with was extremely low. Hiring processes favor inside candidates, not quality or experienced candidates. I care about the planet and climate change. I want to see incentives to move to cleaner energy. I am saddened to read (and believe) that we will lose so much progress, of which every hour is of value, towards a more sustainable Earth. |
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Post by FuzzyMutt on Nov 9, 2024 2:20:26 GMT
Added to the above.. my quick Google search (because, I couldn't help myself...) says in 2023, 18% of the of the Federal budget was "welfare" 1.1T. This does NOT include unemployment, SS, or Medicare/Medicaid. Quick graph from the below site: federalsafetynet.com/welfare-programs/#picturefederalsafetynet.com/welfare-budget/#:~:text=The%20United%20States%27%20welfare%20budget,18%25%20of%20all%20federal%20outlays. Another article said in 2023, 21 percent of the budget, or $1.4 trillion, was spent on Social Security, which provided monthly retirement benefits in March 2023 averaging $1,833 to 49.1 million retired workers. Social Security also provided benefits to 2.7 million spouses and children of retired workers, 5.9 million surviving children and spouses of deceased workers, and 8.7 million disabled workers and their eligible dependents. (In other words, people that likely didn't pay in- at least to the degree their benefit matched that of their spouse.) www.cbpp.org/research/federal-budget/where-do-our-federal-tax-dollars-go#:~:text=Social%20Security%3A%20In%202023%2C%2021,to%2049.1%20million%20retired%20workers. So... 18% and 21% is more like 39%.. And we still haven't scratched the surface of paying for the dumbasses writing and running the budgets. There was a little pie chart included in the second article. Pretty much puts into a visual exactly what I'm pissed about. 1% spent on natural resources and ag? 1% on science and medical research? 2% on Transportation? 5% on Education? But yet..... 24% on Healthcare??? So again I say... I pay my SS tax, and have certain politicians that want me to work til I'm 70, and mayyyyyyyyybe if they haven't mismanaged it enough I can get a few bucks. I pay my Federal tax... It's given away for healthcare for others, "economic security programs", politicians and retirement for government workers and veterans. On TOP of that I pay for my healthcare insurance, and any time I may actually get the privilege of using it. I also PAY into my 401k and other investments to ensure my future (because I don't trust any of these clowns to give a single solitary about my future.) AND- while my check is reduced reduced reduced..... I "make too much" for every program my taxes pay into. I actually lived in a county where I had a County tax (in addition to Federal, State, local, SS) and that county tax funded a program for low income people whose septic systems were failing/failed. At the time, I was a (working) single mom who got a whole $300 a month in child support- meanwhile my sister got $2500 a month SS because her husband---- which she was separated from died... So, apparently the state believed my son, whose father was perfectly alive and a senior NCO in the military was only "worth" $300 support, but my sister's child was clearly worth much more.... of my tax money....) Anyway... my septic failed. It cost me about $1700 for a "bump and brush" that only worked for about 6 months. Then I had to eat a $45k septic dig up and replacement. I'm STILL paying that bitch off. If I made a few dollars less an hour, the county would have used my tax dollars (from the program) to pay for it. WHY is my sister's kid "worth" more than mine? Why do I have to eat $45k in septic repairs when there is a program in place to pay for OTHER peoples septics? Why do I have to subsidize other people's healthcare? This is wayyyyyy too much information. But I am simply sick and tired of funding other people's lives. And yet I still voted blue because I couldn't vote for a felonious insurrectionist, POS. But I can see why so many people didn't. And it isn't because she's a woman or racism. |
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Post by onelasttime on Nov 9, 2024 3:39:05 GMT
Here is what I was looking at. But when you read the story it didn’t actually say that. Should have read the story before saying anyth8ng.
”According to recent data, roughly 20% of the federal budget is allocated to social programs, with major components including Social Security, Medicare, and various welfare programs, representing a significant portion of overall federal spending.”
I want to address your last paragraph but I want to ponder it a bit.
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Post by jill8909 on Nov 9, 2024 3:51:27 GMT
She was boring. She wasn't authentic enough. she needed to distance herself from Biden by saying the truth "I was the VP, not the Pres." Instead she went for safe. She should have admitted that Biden screwed up the border and said what she would have done. She was loyal, instead of authentic.
Her policies were not exciting. the moment at the convention when Oprah screamed "joy" I knew we were sunk. People are having a hard time paying their rent, buying groceries and some celebrity is insanely screaming on the stage. trump can get away with crap; we cannot.
Do I think that disgusting creep will make it any better? no.
We needed a Bernie Sanders type - someone who passionately believes in huge change.
After she lost Harris should have said "I'm not calling this man. He doesn't deserve it. He is a fascist creep who doesn't deserve the conventions that he shunned." Instead, ONCE AGAIN, the Dems play the game and the MAGA people laugh in our face.
And yes, being a black asian woman didn't help.
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