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Post by iamkristinl16 on Nov 20, 2024 14:05:03 GMT
People are always talking about how Covid affected kids and school success. I even hear about preschoolers (who were not alive or were infants during Covid) who are supposedly behind because of Covid. I have always questioned that but the other day while reading HCR's post regarding Trump and education I got to wondering about Trump's impact on education in his first term. Could what we are seeing be results of that more so than Covid? What effects have state legislations and governors had? Teachers, what are your thoughts? www.facebook.com/share/p/1A7FmG1REH/ |
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sueg
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,568
Location: Munich
Apr 12, 2016 12:51:01 GMT
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Post by sueg on Nov 20, 2024 14:30:25 GMT
Kids are having problems since Covid in other countries as well, so I don’t think you can pin that on Trump’s education policies.
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Post by Merge on Nov 20, 2024 14:42:57 GMT
My thought is that Republicans will not be happy until:
- low income children are taught reading and basic math only, and that mostly by computers.
- science, history, geography, the arts, and other elective subjects will be reserved only for families who can afford private education with or without a voucher.
- kids with special needs are no longer educated, but simply warehoused until they're old enough to perform manual labor.
So basically they want to wind the clock back 100 years or more. They perceive that the US needs more unskilled labor and have correctly determined that providing every child with a good education (and thus expectations and ambitions for their future) means that people have some choices in life and they don't choose to work in the fields or meat processing plants. Basically, the American dream took a huge number of desperate, starving people out of the cheap labor pool that industrialists relied on to staff their businesses.
Republicans have determined that the American dream was a mistake and prevents them from making as much profit as they want. So they're going to undo it.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Nov 20, 2024 15:40:19 GMT
Sadly, I think you are absolutely right Merge. People who are uneducated and unhealthy are much easier to control and manipulate because they feel like they don’t have many (or any) options to better their situation in life. |
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Post by aj2hall on Nov 20, 2024 15:57:00 GMT
HCR is right about everything heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/november-16-2024Republicans since Reagan have been trying to dismantle the Education department. They are de-funding and under-funding public schools and trying to divert as much as possible to private schools. They don't like federal departments and they really don't like anything that promotes equality. And Merge is right, too that the Republicans like the uneducated. Easier for them to manipulate, control and push their propaganda. Trump even said he likes the uneducated. The gap in education was wider than ever in the 2024 election. Washington Post did an interesting analysis. Trump voters spend significantly less on education, less on books and don't read newspapers, watch the news (except for Fox) or go to libraries. Gift article - no paywall wapo.st/3V4vGqj |
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Post by jill8909 on Nov 20, 2024 15:58:35 GMT
From what I can see, Trump pretty much ignored education. He forgot about his promise to eliminate the Dept. He was against any forgiveness of student loans; he rescinded as much of what Obama did that he could legally do particularly in the Title IX area. I think he was overwhelmed by Covid and had no idea what to do with the schools and he didn't care. Betsy DeVos came there to shut down the Dept and had no idea what to do about Covid and the schools either and didn't care. So  |
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Post by jill8909 on Nov 20, 2024 16:00:24 GMT
HCR is right about everything heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/november-16-2024Republicans since Reagan have been trying to dismantle the Education department. They are de-funding and under-funding public schools and trying to divert as much as possible to private schools. They don't like federal departments and they really don't like anything that promotes equality. And Merge is right, too that the Republicans like the uneducated. Easier for them to manipulate, control and push their propaganda. Trump even said he likes the uneducated. The gap in education was wider than ever in the 2024 election. Washington Post did an interesting analysis. Trump voters spend significantly less on education, less on books and don't read newspapers, watch the news (except for Fox) or go to libraries. Gift article - no paywall wapo.st/3V4vGqjPart of this is not accurate. Neither of the Bushes tried to shut down the Department of Education. It's a myth. Trump is serious. it's a waste of time to try as then you have to go piece by piece through each law it administers and decide to keep, change, or toss. Then figure out who will administer what remains. it's an uphill fight. |
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Nov 20, 2024 16:09:22 GMT
Republicans have determined that the American dream was a mistake and prevents them from making as much profit as they want. So they're going to undo it. we're on our way back to the Robber Baron Gilded Age era, then... yay. /s (I know where I fall on that scale, and I won't be dressed to the nines attending any fancy balls with the Vanderbilts and Astors. I better get ready for the workhouse.) |
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Post by snugglebutter on Nov 20, 2024 16:19:59 GMT
His last term did help usher in Moms of Liberty et al, which are having a massive impact on public schools. Our own district has managed to keep far right candidates out of the board in recent elections, but I have a lot less confidence that we can do it again.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Nov 20, 2024 16:23:16 GMT
Kids are having problems since Covid in other countries as well, so I don’t think you can pin that on Trump’s education policies. I'm not denying that there was any impact, but it seems unrealistic to me that there was such a drastic change in success of students that has lasted this long, particularly for young students who weren't even in school then. That being said, I also think that this is one aspect of the pandemic that was unavoidable and disagree with those who blame Biden or governors or whoever for closing schools (of course those people forget that Trump was in office when schools were closed). People did what they needed to do to keep the public safe. I just think that people come up with the easiest answer and then don't look further than that. |
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Post by Merge on Nov 20, 2024 16:31:56 GMT
Came back to say - I don't know how much of this is Covid and how much other things, but now that I'm teaching music privately, I am frankly shocked at how many of my students show behaviors that I've generally associated with having ADHD, being on the autism spectrum, or having a neurological difference of some kind. Just a quick glance over my schedule and I counted 9 or 10 out of my 22 students.
To my knowledge, only one of them has a diagnosis and is receiving support at school. Several attend small, religious private schools that probably don't have the resources to help kids with special needs.
I think it's probably overly simplistic to blame Covid or any one thing for what's going on with our kids. I do know that defunding public education isn't going to fix it.
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breetheflea
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,580 
Location: PNW
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Post by breetheflea on Nov 20, 2024 16:35:07 GMT
Around here, during Covid schools were closed physically for almost a year and a half. They don't seem to factor this in when writing the headlines about the education system failing and test scores dropping.
We are on a big "no phones during the school day" era in my area, and it will be interesting to see how that affects grades/test scores this year. There are articles about it every week...
I think smart people make Trump look dumb(er) and he will do whatever he can get his minions to do to make sure no one is smarter than he is which is to decimate the education system. He didn't cross it off on his to-do list with his first term, he won't let it slide the second time. JMO.
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Post by jill8909 on Nov 20, 2024 16:50:56 GMT
Around here, during Covid schools were closed physically for almost a year and a half. They don't seem to factor this in when writing the headlines about the education system failing and test scores dropping. We are on a big "no phones during the school day" era in my area, and it will be interesting to see how that affects grades/test scores this year. There are articles about it every week... I think smart people make Trump look dumb(er) and he will do whatever he can get his minions to do to make sure no one is smarter than he is which is to decimate the education system. He didn't cross it off on his to-do list with his first term, he won't let it slide the second time. JMO. My completely uneducated on this topic is that screens are killing our kids. they aren't helping us adults either. time to log off! |
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Post by Merge on Nov 20, 2024 16:53:12 GMT
Around here, during Covid schools were closed physically for almost a year and a half. They don't seem to factor this in when writing the headlines about the education system failing and test scores dropping. We are on a big "no phones during the school day" era in my area, and it will be interesting to see how that affects grades/test scores this year. There are articles about it every week... I think smart people make Trump look dumb(er) and he will do whatever he can get his minions to do to make sure no one is smarter than he is which is to decimate the education system. He didn't cross it off on his to-do list with his first term, he won't let it slide the second time. JMO. The thing is, schools in states like mine where we returned to in-person school in September 2020 are seeing the same declines. |
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Post by epeanymous on Nov 20, 2024 17:20:03 GMT
My thought is that Republicans will not be happy until: - low income children are taught reading and basic math only, and that mostly by computers. - science, history, geography, the arts, and other elective subjects will be reserved only for families who can afford private education with or without a voucher. - kids with special needs are no longer educated, but simply warehoused until they're old enough to perform manual labor. So basically they want to wind the clock back 100 years or more. They perceive that the US needs more unskilled labor and have correctly determined that providing every child with a good education (and thus expectations and ambitions for their future) means that people have some choices in life and they don't choose to work in the fields or meat processing plants. Basically, the American dream took a huge number of desperate, starving people out of the cheap labor pool that industrialists relied on to staff their businesses. Republicans have determined that the American dream was a mistake and prevents them from making as much profit as they want. So they're going to undo it. I will say, they unfortunately are abetted by some profit-seeking Democrats as well. The Gates foundation has done a lot of work to suggest that 60-kid iPad elementary schools are totally great. Meanwhile, Bill Gates sent his own kids to a test-in private school with small classes, classical coursework, and very little technology, which tells you all you need to know about what affluent, educated people actually think works for education. |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Nov 20, 2024 18:49:18 GMT
Not just kids, good behavior has steadily declined over the years. Too many kids did not hear effective NOs...
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Post by Merge on Nov 20, 2024 19:00:42 GMT
My thought is that Republicans will not be happy until: - low income children are taught reading and basic math only, and that mostly by computers. - science, history, geography, the arts, and other elective subjects will be reserved only for families who can afford private education with or without a voucher. - kids with special needs are no longer educated, but simply warehoused until they're old enough to perform manual labor. So basically they want to wind the clock back 100 years or more. They perceive that the US needs more unskilled labor and have correctly determined that providing every child with a good education (and thus expectations and ambitions for their future) means that people have some choices in life and they don't choose to work in the fields or meat processing plants. Basically, the American dream took a huge number of desperate, starving people out of the cheap labor pool that industrialists relied on to staff their businesses. Republicans have determined that the American dream was a mistake and prevents them from making as much profit as they want. So they're going to undo it. I will say, they unfortunately are abetted by some profit-seeking Democrats as well. The Gates foundation has done a lot of work to suggest that 60-kid iPad elementary schools are totally great. Meanwhile, Bill Gates sent his own kids to a test-in private school with small classes, classical coursework, and very little technology, which tells you all you need to know about what affluent, educated people actually think works for education. For sure some wealthy Democrats decided to be part of "school reform" without understanding the first thing about teaching and learning. I don't know what it is about our society that assumes (and makes some wealthy people believe) that if you're wealthy, you must also be super smart and have all the answers to everything. School reformists have missed the mark time and time again, in large part because educating kids the way we know to be best is *expensive.* Particularly if you aim to educate all kids that way, and not just those who come to school without any impediments to learning. |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Nov 20, 2024 19:06:57 GMT
TFG himself stated that he liked uneducated people. (For good reado)
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Post by KiwiJo on Nov 20, 2024 21:11:18 GMT
Kids are having problems since Covid in other countries as well, so I don’t think you can pin that on Trump’s education policies. I'm not denying that there was any impact, but it seems unrealistic to me that there was such a drastic change in success of students that has lasted this long, particularly for young students who weren't even in school then. That being said, I also think that this is one aspect of the pandemic that was unavoidable and disagree with those who blame Biden or governors or whoever for closing schools (of course those people forget that Trump was in office when schools were closed). People did what they needed to do to keep the public safe. I just think that people come up with the easiest answer and then don't look further than that. I was talking to my son, who is a deputy principal in a primary (grade) school about this a few days ago, because I too didn’t see why the disruption a few years ago would still have a big impact on their learning. He said that, from what he sees, it’s because the style of learning/teaching had to change hugely during zoom/online lessons. The impact was felt throughout the age ranges, but has been especially enormous if that change happened while the children were learning how to learn - when they got back to ordinary classrooms they were way behind in how they learn stuff and that is still being felt. I didn’t ask him about children who were too young for school during Covid, I will do so next time I see him. |
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Post by hop2 on Nov 20, 2024 21:21:20 GMT
Republicans have determined that the American dream was a mistake and prevents them from making as much profit as they want. So they're going to undo it. we're on our way back to the Robber Baron Gilded Age era, then... yay. /s (I know where I fall on that scale, and I won't be dressed to the nines attending any fancy balls with the Vanderbilts and Astors. I better get ready for the workhouse.) With full on company towns again. Because that worked so well last time? |
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Post by crazy4scraps on Nov 20, 2024 23:12:10 GMT
Kids are having problems since Covid in other countries as well, so I don’t think you can pin that on Trump’s education policies. I'm not denying that there was any impact, but it seems unrealistic to me that there was such a drastic change in success of students that has lasted this long, particularly for young students who weren't even in school then. That being said, I also think that this is one aspect of the pandemic that was unavoidable and disagree with those who blame Biden or governors or whoever for closing schools (of course those people forget that Trump was in office when schools were closed). People did what they needed to do to keep the public safe. I just think that people come up with the easiest answer and then don't look further than that. Do you think with the youngest children, that part of it could be because many kids who normally would have been in preschool or daycare (learning how to be with other kids, follow rules, learning ABCs, numbers, colors, shapes, basic preschool stuff) were instead at home with one or both parents who were trying to work from home and parent at the same time? When kids are at home with a dedicated parent caregiver or at a preschool or daycare with other kids, they learn a lot of things to help get them ready for school. Under the chaos that was Covid with the shutdowns of pretty much everything, families were just doing the best they could under the circumstances. I think it would be really difficult to try to focus on whatever your job is while concurrently dealing with a young child. My kid was in 5th grade that year (fully online) and was fairly independent, but she also had a great teacher who was able to keep the kids engaged, focused and on task. We chose to do full time online because I was already working from home and it was a good choice for us. My kid excelled with online school and I don’t feel she really suffered any ill effects from the experience. Many of her friends did hybrid school that year where they were in person two days a week and online three days a week, and I don’t know of any who actually excelled in that situation. Based on my conversations with her friends, on the days they were home there usually wasn’t anyone pushing them to do their class work and when they were in person most of their class time was spent trying to catch up. At one point, one of DD’s friends said she was FIFTY assignments behind but because of Covid no one was going to be failed or held back. Another one of her friends who was doing hybrid said that on online days she was getting all of her work done in 30 minutes.  I found that hard to believe because DD was on zoom calls literally all day every day with the exception of lunch and independent reading time. |
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I found that hard to believe because DD was on zoom calls literally all day every day with the exception of lunch and independent reading time.