Politics: Should the Feds give Veterans preference in hiring

NJ civil service has been(not sure about today)... If the veteran is within the top 3 on the list, the veteran is to be hired.
Veteran cannot be bypassed.

I think it's good for people to point out how preference in hiring can be a positive. For people to consciously process that it's being done for other groups, without complaint, and invite discussion into why.

Do you have the same understanding of how that works for women, minorities, older people, LGBQT community, disabled? In regards to DEI and EOO initiatives?

True, but not relevant to whether or not the candidate is highly qualified.

That’s not what you said. You said veterans were equally qualified, and when asked if other formerly protected groups might also be equally qualified, you asked if those groups had also risked their lives.

Qualifications and risk are not the same thing. It seems to me that if you can have AA for vets, we can have it for other groups without assuming those groups are less qualified.

The above was also anecdotal and who knows if it is even current.

Isn’t there enough to argue about without arguing over things that even the person sharing acknowledges they aren’t certain are true?

That said- is there a hierarchy in the 14815 classified groups listed above?

As a woman and a veteran- I would certainly expect my veteran status (which I EARNED) to be a tip over the line with all other things being equal ( which they typically aren’t.)

*Respectfully* f you. You clearly don’t know your ass from a hole in the wall.

Nobody said they are *heros* simply for joining the military. But they are people who made a commitment to this country for whatever reason and served something bigger than themselves, on all our behalf. People who lived in conditions 90% of the country couldn’t handle, much less choose to do so.

ALL military members are soldiers first. You’re assigned where you are assigned.

Out of curiosity, does anyone here think that there are more ways of making a commitment to one's country than serving in the military? It seems to me that there are lots of civilian jobs that help the country and its people and often come with low pay, no housing/housing allowance, no free healthcare, no college reimbursement, no job training, no access to lower-cost shopping on base/post, and no preferential treatment in the job market if and when they leave that job.

I am in no way saying that military personnel shouldn't have those things. I am perhaps pushing back at the notion that *only* veterans have served their country and its people and thus deserve the preferential treatment above all others.

Thoughts?

ETA: this article is older, but points out that military service isn't even the most dangerous job in the US - logging and fishing are. www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/03/15/dying-for-a-paycheck-these-jobs-are-more-dangerous.aspx

Joining the military (especially enlisted) isn't just a job. You are at the mercy of what the government decides you will do. You don't choose where you live, what you do, how you dress. No, it's not like other service jobs that you can decide aren't for you and quit. Also, it doesn't matter if you are in a combat position or not. People die in the military in more ways than just on the front lines.

As a veteran, I fully support preference in hiring for my service. I've never taken advantage of it, but my military service gave me invaluable experience throughout my working years that I wouldn't have gotten elsewhere.

Hm, still disagree, but thanks for sharing your thoughts.

There are lots of jobs that can transfer you wherever they like, and unless you’ve got something else lined up and/or are fine with giving up all the years you’ve already put in, you have to go. And you still don’t get all those other benefits I named when you get there - nor do you get preference in hiring when you decide to leave.

Yes it is. The DEI office at my university was the office that handled veteran preferences, in both employment and academic matters.

That’s the point Merge. There is no “unless.”

I spent 2 enlistments at the coldest post the US Army has (in the contiguous) and four winters I spent 6 weeks outside in the snow. The mud. The no power, the wind, the cold. The shitty food. The isolation. The “other soldiers” the port a potties and the places there were no ports potties.

No news. No heat, no tv. No family, no friends other than my military friends that became family. I also pulled community service during hurricanes and snow/ice storms, lack of power for weeks driving a 5 ton of supplies, or an ambulance or providing care, food and meds for people in the communities who needed that at that time but those civilian services and businesses were shut down because they had a CHOICE to focus on their own homes, families and well being. While we didn’t. Yes, there were some civilians that participated sometimes, but they often got in the way or needed bailed out.

We didn’t have a choice. Period. When my grandma was dying, and I was sent to Somalia to play flux fux games and couldn’t see her before she died or go to her funeral- I didn’t have a choice. Period.

I work in a male dominated field and only 4 of my peers are veterans. We get it done. If something needs to be done, it will get done. There’s no whining, no excuses, just a plan and execution.

Talk about the benefits all you want. How many of your close friends have been shot? How many have been hospitalized due to grenades? Roadside bombs? Suicide??? I’ve told you all about the commander (Cpt) for my ex’s unit who was hit while in a port a potty. Out of the delicate nature of those on this board I didn’t finish his story for you. He ended up killing himself. Despite all the glorious things handed to him that you listed - plus a service dog- he was not able to readjust to his family (he was terrified of children- including his own.) He couldn’t even hold a meaningful rent a cop job, despite having his BA when he joined the military and successfully leading troops for years in garrison and combat.

His wife was the first of “the wives” to leave him. I don’t blame her.

Bottom line: it’s not the same and it’s ridiculous to infer that there is any similarity to the civilian world (including civil service.)

Believe me, in Somalia I would have hit the easy button a hundred times if there were a way out.

Ps- if anyone has issue with the fact I truthfully reported Cpt Johhnberry as a suicide, I’ll be glad to give you more details.

Also ps, I’ve share here before the story of my national guard friend who was active marines for over 15 years and 4 deployments. He was also a firefighter (volunteer) in his community: He and his wife had 4 boys. The oldest was in his senior year of high school and the youngest was 3.

He was killed by a roadside bomb. Left those four boys with no father.

It is not the same. At all.Between my experiences and the people I know, I promise you, it’s absolutely insane to compare.

Yes, I understand the difficulties, particularly with combat zone assignments. My feeling is more that someone who does four years at a desk job at an air base in Germany (my SIL, for example) is perhaps no more deserving of special consideration than someone who does four years at a desk job for their local, state, or federal government, for example. And the vast majority of those who go into the military never see the kind of conditions you faced.

I do feel compelled to point out that when I’ve been inclined to share the difficulties of urban teaching, people are quick to remind me that I chose that job. And I did, just as you chose to enter the military. No one is forced, and to some degree, you knew what you were getting into. You were paid a salary for work that you chose to do. And there *are* benefits to military service including all those I named. I’m just not sure that perpetual job consideration over other equally or better qualified candidates even in the private sector should be one of them. Maybe for combat veterans, IDK. 

ETA: what I definitely support is better medical and mental health care for veterans when they return home. Giving someone a job when they're struggling with just getting out of bed every day seems like the wrong approach.

There is definitely a difference between vets who served in the field and those who have desk jobs and saw no active combat.

I 100% support providing combat vets with any services they need. I think that service should be taken into consideration when hiring decisions are being made.