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Post by jeremysgirl on Feb 20, 2025 13:02:10 GMT
There has been a lot of news recently about the health risks of drinking alcohol. So, much so that Surgeon General Murthy wants warning labels. NYT Article on Surgeon General Wanting WarningsWhat I cannot seem to find and would really like to see is data on the real risks. For example if drinking 3 glasses a wine a week (my typical) is equivalent to a 10% jump in probability that I get cancer, that might be something worth considering. But if my risk is 1% greater, it may be a quality of life issue that pulls ahead of the small increased risk. With that said, I can abstain. I was married to an alcoholic for years and I did not drink so someone could be in control to take care of the children. So it's not that I don't know I can have a good life without alcohol. My husband does not drink at all so there's no pressure there. My DD is an alcoholic so I don't drink around her and I am careful of the language I use around alcohol consumption (like you won't catch me going, "I had a rough day and need a drink.") And sometimes (like now) my mental illness is such that depression has got me and I value my mental health over any benefit I get from that glass of wine so I haven't had a drink in like 3 or 4 weeks right now. My family drinks significant amounts of alcohol and that is the environment in which I was raised. I am certain this shaped my attitude toward alcohol as a lifestyle issue. I guess I'm kind of confused as to what I'm really getting out of it vs. these health risks that are coming to light. Anybody else in this boat given these studies coming out? Anybody rethinking alcohol as a result of them?
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SweetieBsMom
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Post by SweetieBsMom on Feb 20, 2025 13:16:17 GMT
I don't drink a lot, if at all. I'm still on lockdown due to this stupid autoimmune condition. I don't drink sitting in my house (I was starting when DH was in hospice and once I realized, I shut that down quick). The only time I get out is when I go to my Aunt's when my cousin is up from NJ (Thanksgiving and April). I may have 1 glass of wine before dinner but that's it. The older I get the less I like how alcohol makes me feel, especially the day after. So I have, maybe 1 glass of wine, every 6mths or so. This news isn't going to make me abstain from that 1 glass of wine.
I do have friends that drink a lot more frequently that are like "yeah, whatever, and in 5 years, doctors will go back to: drinking is fine". They don't seem to be concerned at all. It's the similar reaction my other friend had when I was telling her my cardiologist said to stay away from anything with THC, because they're starting to find it's causing cardiac issues. This friend has really embraced the legality of marijuana, to the point she can't sleep without vaping, and she was all "fake news! FAKE NEWS!". People are going to do what people want to do regardless.
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Post by gar on Feb 20, 2025 13:24:17 GMT
My average is 3 glasses of wine a week, like you, so my take on it is that I am probably more at risk from eating too much sugar than the amount of booze I consume.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Feb 20, 2025 13:29:08 GMT
The older I get the less I like how alcohol makes me feel, especially the day after. I cannot have more than one drink in a night without it impacting my sleep. I am very protective of my sleep as it greatly influences my mood disorder. So I notice big-time the impact that this can have. I have a friend who swears she sleeps better after a night of drinking. I have tried to tell her it is not true. It may seem like it, but according to my pulmonologist, alcohol makes it seem like we sleep deeper, at first. Because apparently it throws off the sleep cycle so much that the period in which we dream comes earlier in our sleep cycle actually making it so that the sleep misses the deeper levels of the sleep cycle.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Feb 20, 2025 13:29:38 GMT
My average is 3 glasses of wine a week, like you, so my take on it is that I am probably more at risk from eating too much sugar than the amount of booze I consume. Yes, on the sugar for me too. LOL!
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Post by pantsonfire on Feb 20, 2025 13:36:25 GMT
CA has had warning labels for years. Hasn't changed how people buy.
I don't drink due to allergies. Dh hardly drinks.
I see it like this...everything now a days is a cancer risk. So I weigh risk vs benefit. And more times than not I enjoy X. I have one life. I want to enjoy it
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Post by jeremysgirl on Feb 20, 2025 13:48:11 GMT
I see it like this...everything now a days is a cancer risk. So I weigh risk vs benefit. And more times than not I enjoy X. I have one life. I want to enjoy it Agreed. But I'm wrestling with the idea of immediate rewards vs. long term benefit on a lot of things. Plus, I'm having a hard time quantifying what exactly the benefits of drinking are for me. (Especially given how destructive it has been to my life, i.e. ex-husband and daughter) But this is a me issue and I can see that.
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Post by Linda on Feb 20, 2025 13:58:38 GMT
I rarely drink - last time was homemade eggnog DS made at Christmas - and honestly it would be no biggie to give up the handful of drinks I have in a year. But tbh, there are other things that I could/should be doing that would have a much bigger impact on my health
I also grew up around alcohol - my parents were functional alcoholics and the only 3 times I've ever been drunk were when I was a toddler - so I have a complicated relationship with alcohol.
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Post by workingclassdog on Feb 20, 2025 13:58:49 GMT
Eh I don't drink enough to worry about it. I might have something once every couple of months. If anything my drinking in my early 20s would have done it. haha.
I am kinda in the camp about stuff like this that in five years they will change it to something else. Since I don't really drink that much it's not a blimp on my personal radar.
I think the amount of sugar, processed foods, bad other crap that I have done for 56 years would most likely affect me more. I'm still ticking away.
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pilcas
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Post by pilcas on Feb 20, 2025 13:59:14 GMT
I may have a glass of something maybe once a month. More around the holidays because there are more social events so I am not too worried. For me the sugar would be more of an issue.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Feb 20, 2025 14:32:44 GMT
I don’t drink often but some people that I follow on social media or listen to their podcasts have stopped drinking due to the studies and most say they feel a lot better overall. I think they were drinking more than three glasses a week, though.
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Post by aprilfay21 on Feb 20, 2025 14:40:34 GMT
I don't drink much, as in - a box of Cayman Jack will last me two months, or I'll have a margarita out to dinner every couple of months, but this won't affect that for me, personally. This does track with why my mom's side of the family have all died from various cancer related diagnoses. They were all heavy drinkers.
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Post by Merge on Feb 20, 2025 14:43:13 GMT
1. I don't really drink any more so this doesn't affect me, but ... 2. Haven't they been telling us for decades now that the Mediterranean diet (including red wine in moderation) is the healthiest possible way to eat?
When studies like this come out that show that one of the ways that people use to cope with stress "causes cancer," I often wonder if it's actually the stress and strain of modern life that caused the cancer. KWIM?
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SweetieBsMom
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Jun 25, 2014 19:55:12 GMT
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Post by SweetieBsMom on Feb 20, 2025 14:44:22 GMT
Eh I don't drink enough to worry about it. I might have something once every couple of months. If anything my drinking in my early 20s would have done it. haha. I am kinda in the camp about stuff like this that in five years they will change it to something else. Since I don't really drink that much it's not a blimp on my personal radar. I think the amount of sugar, processed foods, bad other crap that I have done for 56 years would most likely affect me more. I'm still ticking away.  Yeah, same, the damage was done in my 20s for sure.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Feb 20, 2025 14:58:49 GMT
If anything my drinking in my early 20s would have done it. haha. LOL! I'm right there with you. I heavily enjoyed my college years. some people that I follow on social media or listen to their podcasts have stopped drinking due to the studies and most say they feel a lot better overall. I believe this. I know I am super sensitive and have a mood disorder but I have a limit to what I can handle without it severely impacting my mood. 2. Haven't they been telling us for decades now that the Mediterranean diet (including red wine in moderation) is the healthiest possible way to eat? Apparently they are saying that the studies showing protective benefits of red wine did not control for the health status of the non-drinking group as opposed to the moderate drinking group. So the moderate drinking group was actually healthier overall and that had nothing to do with the alcohol. I guess people who have health issues tend to be non-drinkers due to them.
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huskergal
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Post by huskergal on Feb 20, 2025 15:12:05 GMT
What doesn't cause cancer?
I go through cycles of drinking. I might not drink for weeks just because. I am a social drinker. I usually limit myself to do drinks sometimes 3. If I thought I had a problem with alcohol, I would be more concerned.
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Post by ~summer~ on Feb 20, 2025 15:12:05 GMT
One flaw was that they did not exclude non drinkers who didn’t drink for health reasons (or were ex alcoholics) - they were much less healthy as a group and made the non-drinkers in general appear less healthy than the drinkers.
I’m reading an excellent book (highly recommend) called “Outlive: The Science & Art of Longevity” - it strongly recommends not more than 7 drinks per week.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Feb 20, 2025 15:23:21 GMT
When studies like this come out that show that one of the ways that people use to cope with stress "causes cancer," I often wonder if it's actually the stress and strain of modern life that caused the cancer. KWIM? ^^^ this is where I'm at, too. I did not grow up around alcohol, other than my dad drinking a bottle of beer here and there, very rarely. I currently am not drinking much, and shouldn't at all, since it messes with my antidepressant... so I feel a TON better when I am NOT. It's tough, sometimes, not going to lie- I've gotten 'used to' certain pairings-- a hard cider with pizza or chicken wings, or a margarita when we go out for Mexican... and alcohol advertising is everywhere during sporting events.
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Post by scrapmaven on Feb 20, 2025 15:23:52 GMT
I never liked the taste of alcohol and I'm a control freak. So, I don't drink, but I would also weigh the risk vs. benefit if I did drink. They also say that a glass of wine is good for your heart health. It's really a toss up.
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scrappinmama
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Jun 26, 2014 12:54:09 GMT
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Post by scrappinmama on Feb 20, 2025 15:26:13 GMT
Dh and I don't drink. Alcoholism runs in both of our families, so it's not work the risk for us. I do think the increase in cancer applies to so many things! Too much processed foods, too much sugar, having a sedentary lifestyle. We need to move our bodies more, eat less processed foods less, drink less, etc.
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FuzzyMutt
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Post by FuzzyMutt on Feb 20, 2025 15:33:59 GMT
I used to drink- a lot. Probably a “functional alcoholic” by definition.
Regardless of how much I drink (drank) I never got hung over, it truly didn’t hurt my sleep, and didn’t affect my work or my family.
My family has a horrific history of alcoholism. Ironically, I didn’t drink (at all) until my 20’s. Currently both of my siblings have a serious problem that is affecting their lives.
Without sharing too much here (someone else’s story to tell), there was someone in my life that I was extremely worried about their relationship with weed (and they did get sick if they didn’t use it) alcohol (bad/dangerous decisions that could totally destroy their life and others, and vaping.
So, a couple years ago, “dry January” was coming up, and that person mentioned they were considering it. So I said “I will if you will.”
So, I had one beer on NYE…. And haven’t had a drink since. Honestly, it was easy, and I was surprised it wasn’t “harder” given that I figured there was likely some degree of dependence.
Anyway, the person I love so much didn’t complete “dry January.” But over the course of the last few years, they’ve seriously cut back on the weed, and have only vaped/smoked a handful of times since and feel as if that is in the past. They seem to have a much better relationship with alcohol- and literally threw their vape in the trash last night (4 day without nicotine.) I was/am elated!
I may have a margarita tonight, or I may never have a beer or mojito again. I don’t know, honestly, I’m approaching 50, and I’ve had 3 close circle people have strokes/serious diabetic events in the last 15 months. One is currently 51 and in a physical rehab facility following diabetic keto acidosis, brain hemorrhaging and a stroke 3 weeks ago. The last few years I have focused on getting stronger and making my body as healthy as possible and it has been fun (again) as I’ve always been super physically active. I’m running half’s again (used to run marathons after drinking a ton the night before, so this isn’t a lifestyle change due to cutting alcohol. The above paragraph is 100% the more “important” concern for me re: alcohol. What I am modeling and influence.
I’m not worried about the studies. In my experience people who “drink too much” have died of many many other causes before those consequences could catch up to them. So no, these studies are irrelevant to my choices.
Edited to add- because some people posted while I was writing my book lol…. I was totally excited to experience the ground breaking awesome “effects” of quitting drinking. Like…. 2 weeks after you quit, you’ll see unicorns and glitter where there once was dreary mess. None of that materialized for me. I also expected to drop weight (I used to joke I’d be a super model if I quit drinking.) How the hell do you cut out 150-200+ beers a MONTH and only lose about 10 lbs over 6 months??
Also- as far as the studies and healthier not healthier… the people who I referenced earlier dealing with serious health issues ironically are all non drinkers. But- all four of them have battled obesity/diet/sedentary lifestyle for sooo long. 2 of them were in women’s clothes when we were in elementary school. The 3rd was super fit and active til her mid 20’s.
I was (am- still consider myself to be for some reason) a super heavy drinker, but I’ve always been super active and a healthy eater. So I think it’s impossible for these studies to lump together enough people of a similar “type” and have a relevant study. At least relevant enough that I would change behaviors based on it.
Also, fwiw——- I’ve been on the PFAS/forever chemicals train since way before it was cool. I haven’t had a “nonstick” surface in my kitchen in decades, I use tin lined copper or cast iron. I don’t store food in plastic containers, I use weck. I don’t drink out of plastic bottles (very rare exceptions.) I am careful of detergents/soaps/lotion ingredients, and I buy organic for certain high risk foods.
I think we balance our risks. And the last reason I wouldn’t enjoy a glass of wine if that’s what I wanted is because of a study like this.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Feb 20, 2025 15:46:34 GMT
I don’t drink so for me it’s not an issue. I’ve seen firsthand how much substance abuse can ruin a person’s life so the cancer risk is only one of several reasons why for me it’s just not worth it. Plus alcohol is expensive and I’m cheap thrifty, so I would rather spend my money on more durable things that bring me joy.
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Post by Delta Dawn on Feb 20, 2025 15:47:55 GMT
I have had 2 drinks and 5 sips since November 15th and I didn’t have more. I want to enjoy it but the taste is what gets to me. I just don’t like it. Wine is the worst. My whole family has wine with dinner and they talk about the wine and compare notes. I take a sip and tell them what they are tasting like blackberry, peach, oak etc. I have a very good sense of taste. They like knowing what they are drinking. They don’t think to ask how my cranberry and soda is and that ticks me off. That said I love DS and DDIL and Dad to the moon and beyond. They could be a little more inclusive.🤣
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scrapngranny
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Post by scrapngranny on Feb 20, 2025 15:57:10 GMT
I don’t drink very often, so that is not a big worry for me. My dad was an alcoholic my entire life and lived to be 90, and never had cancer. I don’t think the alcohol did his body any good, especially his brain. Overall gut health is important in a healthy immune system.
I think we have much more to worry about from all the crap they add to processed foods, sugar and plastics we are exposed to.
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Post by bc2ca on Feb 20, 2025 17:12:32 GMT
I put other as someone that moved from being a moderate drink to almost nondrinker in the last few years.
For me, I suspected alcohol was interfering with treating at best (and triggering at worst) psoriasis flares. When you are dealing with a disease that creates inflammation in the body, having anything that feeds inflammation in your diet is just not a great thing. When I didn't drink (and limited other inflammatory foods), flares could be controlled and that was my priority so drank alcohol maybe 3-5 times a year.
I also have no doubt there is a link between my cancer and body inflammation. Whether that means I delayed the progress by not having much alcohol in the five years prior to diagnosis, or triggered it by drinking at a higher level in my 50s, I have no idea.
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purplebee
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Jun 27, 2014 20:37:34 GMT
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Post by purplebee on Feb 20, 2025 17:12:37 GMT
I also have maybe 3 drinks - mostly wine - a week, sometimes go for weeks without any, sometimes drink a bit more if it is a social setting. Probably won’t change due to the recent findings on cancer and alcohol.
Like others have mentioned, my sugar/junk food consumption is what I need to work on cutting.
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milocat
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Mar 18, 2015 4:10:31 GMT
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Post by milocat on Feb 20, 2025 17:21:47 GMT
Last time I had a drink was probably 18 months ago. If I had 3 drinks in a year it would be a lot for me. So this exact study or worry doesn't affect me personally. What I cannot seem to find and would really like to see is data on the real risks. For example if drinking 3 glasses a wine a week (my typical) is equivalent to a 10% jump in probability that I get cancer, that might be something worth considering. But if my risk is 1% greater, it may be a quality of life issue that pulls ahead of the small increased risk. I guess I'm kind of confused as to what I'm really getting out of it vs. these health risks that are coming to light. Anybody else in this boat given these studies coming out? Anybody rethinking alcohol as a result of them? Yes, these studies need to be clearer. Saying 20% increased risk is a different perspective than saying your risk is now 5 in 1000 versus 4 in 1000. Putting an article under a spoiler so it doesn't take up so much room. Many reports in the media about the benefits of treatments present risk results as relative risk reductions rather than absolute risk reductions. This often makes the treatments seem better than they actually are. Here we explain the difference between absolute and relative risk to enable you to make more informed decisions about whether to take a treatment or not. What are absolute and relative risks? Absolute risk of a disease is your risk of developing the disease over a time period. We all have absolute risks of developing various diseases such as heart disease, cancer, stroke, etc. The same absolute risk can be expressed in different ways. For example, say you have a 1 in 10 risk of developing a certain disease in your life. This can also be said to be a 10% risk, or a 0.1 risk - depending on whether you use percentages or decimals. Relative risk is used to compare the risk in two different groups of people. For example, the groups could be smokers and non-smokers. All sorts of groups are compared to others in medical research to see if belonging to a group increases or decreases your risk of developing certain diseases. For example, research has shown that smokers have a higher risk of developing heart disease compared to (relative to) non-smokers. A couple of examples may illustrate this better: An example when talking about risks of disease Say the absolute risk of developing a disease is 4 in 100 in non-smokers. Say the relative risk of the disease is increased by 50% in smokers. The 50% relates to the 4 - so the absolute increase in the risk is 50% of 4, which is 2. So, the absolute risk of smokers developing this disease is 6 in 100. An example when talking about treatments Say men have a 2 in 20 risk of developing a certain disease by the time they reach the age of 60. Then, say research shows that a new treatment reduces the relative risk of getting this disease by 50%. The 50% is the relative risk reduction, and is referring to the effect on the 2. 50% of 2 is 1. So this means that the absolute risk is reduced from from 2 in 20, to 1 in 20. Number needed to treat (NNT) A figure which is often quoted in medical research is the NNT. This is the number of people who need to take the treatment for one person to benefit from the treatment. For example, say a pharmaceutical company reported that medicine X reduced the relative risk of developing a certain disease by 25%. If the absolute risk of developing the disease was 4 in 100 then this 25% reduction in relative risk would reduce the absolute risk to 3 in 100. However, this can be looked at another way. If 100 people do not take the medicine, then 4 in those 100 people will get the disease. If 100 people do take the medicine, then only 3 in those 100 people will get the disease. Therefore, 100 people need to take the treatment for one person to benefit and not get the disease. So, in this example, the NNT is 100. A quick way of obtaining the NNT for a treatment is to divide 100 by the absolute reduction in percentage points in risk when taking the medicine. Here is another quick example. Say the absolute risk of developing complications from a certain disease is 4 in 20. Say a medicine reduces the relative risk of getting these complications by 50%. This reduces the absolute risk from 4 in 20, to 2 in 20. In percentage terms, 4 in 20 is 20%, and, 2 in 20 is 10%. Therefore, the reduction in absolute risk in taking this medicine is from 20% to 10% - a reduction of 10 percentage points. The NNT would be 100 divided by 10. That is, 10 people would need to take the medicine for one to benefit. Helping to decide about taking a treatment The decision on whether to take a treatment needs to balance various things, such as: What is the absolute risk of getting the disease to start with? How serious is the disease anyway? How much is the absolute risk reduced with treatment? What are the risks or side-effects in taking the treatment? How much does the treatment cost? Is it worth it to an individual if the individual is paying, or is it worth it to the country if the government is paying? It may help to look at a couple of examples: Say your absolute risk of developing a certain disease is 4 in 1,000. If a treatment reduces the relative risk by 50%, it means the 4 is reduced by 50%. Therefore, the treatment reduces the absolute risk from 4 in 1,000 to 2 in 1,000. Not really much in absolute terms. If it were a minor disease, one which you are likely to recover from, you are not likely to bother to take the treatment. If it is a fatal disease, you might consider taking the treatment - any reduction in risk may be better than none. However: Say there was a 1 in 100 risk of developing serious side-effects from treatment. You are then not likely to want the treatment, as the risk from serious side-effects is higher than the risk from the disease. If there were no risk from the treatment, you might consider the treatment worthwhile. If the treatment were very expensive: Then you may not be able to afford it and decide to take the risk without treatment. If the government is paying, it might decide not to fund this treatment, as the reduction in absolute risk is not great and many people would need treatment to benefit one person. However, on the other hand, say your absolute risk of developing a different disease is 4 in 10 and a treatment reduces the relative risk by 50%. Your absolute risk goes down to 2 in 10 - this is now a big reduction. If it were a minor disease that you are likely to recover from, you may still take the treatment if there were no risk of side-effects, so as not to be troubled with the disease. If it is a fatal disease, you are likely definitely to want treatment, provided the risk of side-effects was much lower than the risk of getting the disease. If the treatment were very expensive: If the government is paying, it is more likely to decide to fund this treatment, as the reduction in absolute risk is greater than the previous example and fewer people would need treatment to benefit one person. In summary Treatments for medical conditions are often quoted in the press along the lines ... "New treatment reduces your risk of X disease by 25%". Whilst this sounds good, it usually refers to the relative risk. However, the benefit really depends on how common or rare the disease is. A large reduction of relative risk for a rare disease might not mean much reduction in the absolute risk. For example, a 75% reduction in relative risk for something that has a 4 in a million absolute risk of happening brings the absolute risk down to 1 in a million. When deciding on whether to take a treatment, ideally you should decide with your doctor if the reduction in the absolute risk outweighs the risks, side-effects and costs of treatment. patient.info/news-and-features/calculating-absolute-risk-and-relative-risk
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Post by jeremysgirl on Feb 20, 2025 17:22:19 GMT
I was totally excited to experience the ground breaking awesome “effects” of quitting drinking. Like…. 2 weeks after you quit, you’ll see unicorns and glitter where there once was dreary mess. None of that materialized for me. I also expected to drop weight (I used to joke I’d be a super model if I quit drinking.) How the hell do you cut out 150-200+ beers a MONTH and only lose about 10 lbs over 6 months?? I'm glad your experience at least during your drinking time was not terribly negatively impacted by it. And then it makes sense that you wouldn't experience rainbows when you quit either. I'm just glad whatever happened for you to change your mind, you are content with the outcome. I was (am- still consider myself to be for some reason) a super heavy drinker I haven't had a cigarette in almost a year now and I still consider myself a smoker. I don't know that I'll ever get to a place where I don't crave one. LOL! I also have no doubt there is a link between my cancer and body inflammation. I think there's a link (in general, not you specifically) between inflammation and cancer too.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Feb 20, 2025 17:23:49 GMT
Yes, these studies need to be clearer. Saying 20% increased risk is a different perspective than saying your risk is now 5 in 1000 versus 4 in 1000. Exactly. I feel like we aren't getting the full picture.
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Post by littlemama on Feb 20, 2025 17:27:14 GMT
I feel like every few years, this changes. Didnt they tell us several years ago that a glass of wine was...helpful in some way? Now it is swinging the other way. Im very much a "everything in moderation" kind of person (except chocolate, I need to reduce my consumption of that). So, this doesnt bother me, especially in such generic terms
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