Lurkingpea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,561
Apr 24, 2022 18:37:20 GMT
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Post by Lurkingpea on Mar 5, 2025 23:32:11 GMT
I have a child in my K class that is challenging and I need some advice please.
Some background because I know I will be asking these questions.
Yes we do have a school counselor,she works one half day a week and is overwhelmed with other children.
Yes, I have spoken to parents they're very receptive and worried and are seeking private help, but as we all know this could take time.
Principal not much help.
And I realize this may be a very minor issue but I am just at a loss on how to deal with it when the situation comes up.
I have two students in my class X and y they are best friends they love each other, cannot and will not stay away from each other and constantly refer to each other as best friend. X however has started saying terribly unkind things to Y. Last week X told Y that their hair was gross and disgusting. Y has beautiful blond curly hair that is well groomed. X told Y they were going to go to their house and steal all their food. Yesterday X told Y they were going to chop them up and put them in the dumpster. The children met this year and instantly loved each other and became best friends as 5-year-olds do. There was the usual spats early on "you can't come to my birthday party" "I don't want to play with you" kind of stuff but it was pretty minimal it's just been the last three weeks I have heard X say mean things or that Y has come to tell me what X said.
I am trying to Foster different relationships for why but as I said they cannot stay away from each other. They are both in the same reading group and even though it is my smallest reading group I have divided it in half so they are no longer in the same reading group but that's really all the separation I can force during the day. It's kindergarten there's no assigned seats, kids move around from station to station from area to area there is no way to keep them separated.
I don't know what to do. X has a twin sibling in the class who is a delightful child, which X was as well until recently. I had their older siblings and they were fine as well. Nothing out of the ordinary. X and Y both play with other kids but they just love each other the most.
So that is one situation does anyone have any words of wisdom or ideas for me to utilize?
In other situation I'm having is a child that is capable of skills and has demonstrated skills all year long now suddenly saying they can't do things. When there's a project that involves cutting they get frustrated and cry saying they can't do it after one snip. Yesterday they were hysterically sobbing because we were doing a map activity and they drew a house and hated the way it looked. It was the same kind of house every child draws, a square with a triangle on top. They used the ruler that was available and it was perfectly symmetrical and fine and nothing at all looked askance to me. They do fine with strictly academic activities it's the art activities that is the issue. They have become a little more emotional since we came back from winter break lots of tears over things that weren't upsetting prior to break. They were also eating all their lunch and saying they were starving so I've asked parents to provide for snacks which they have been doing and the child has been eating quite a bit. They also have access to our school snack cupboard when they are hungry. That seemed to help for a week or two but now we're back to emotional breakdowns over things at recess and as I said art activities.
I have tried breathing exercises and mindfulness exercises with this child and I've tried helping them without doing the activity for them but they flat out want me to do the activity for them or another child to do it for them and I don't know how to get around this. I mean they will put the scissors down and just start sobbing uncontrollably when it's time to cut something.
I mean I've offered to hold the paper while they cut and they say they can't, but I don't think it's a physical pain thing because that was my first thought. As I said at the beginning of the year they were able to do all these things I don't know what has changed.
If you read all this thank you I'm open to any and all suggestions and critiques.
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Post by Merge on Mar 6, 2025 0:21:06 GMT
Would you consider assigned seats and assigned groups for moving from station to station? I don't think I've ever seen a kinder class where it was a complete free for all. It takes a little planning in the beginning to set up the groups and teach the kids to move from station to station as a group, but I think it's well worth it for the relative peace it provides. That should help minimize the problem.
You might also read the class a story about using kind words and being a friend (ask your librarian for a recommendation), and foster some class discussions about kind vs. unkind words to others. Do it every day over a week to really let the lesson sink in. Then, if you hear X being mean to Y, you can encourage Y to use her words and say, "I don't like it when you use unkind words." And of course you can also redirect - "X, we don't use unkind words to our friends. Please use kind words only."
For the second one, I think it's possible the child feels overwhelmed at the beginning of a task he can't quite picture the end of. Very typical at that age. You might try chunking the task (OK, just cut from here to here then we'll take a break). Lots of praise when that is complete and then move on to the next chunk. It may not work but it's worth a try. Good luck! It's a challenging age for sure.
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bethany102399
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by bethany102399 on Mar 6, 2025 1:27:54 GMT
I think it's possible the child feels overwhelmed at the beginning of a task he can't quite picture the end of. Very typical at that age. You might try chunking the task (OK, just cut from here to here then we'll take a break). Lots of praise when that is complete and then move on to the next chunk. It may not work but it's worth a try. Good luck! It's a challenging age for sure. I feel this in my soul. I've started the new job and took on a project today that just felt so overwhelming. I literally had to stop, give myself a pep talk then start chunking it out until I got into a rhythm with it. So while it may be common at that age it's become quite common at 51 too!  |
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Post by 950nancy on Mar 6, 2025 2:06:52 GMT
I work with kinder kids every day. They are something else. For your first question, please put them in groups that travel from center to center. All of our teachers in K-3 have groups like that. Kids that aren't allowed to be with each other are separated and even kept out of ability groups until behavior changes. Each group is posted on the wall and also on the list of activities and groups from the projector. The kids can follow this easily even if they aren't great readers. Hopefully you have access to a computer and projector that can do this. I would also watch this kid like a hawk. Anytime they are near the other child, it is a quick reminder and then a consequence when it is clear the offender isn't listening. X needs to be held accountable and phone calls home and admin need to be involved. The things that are being said are harassment and at some point it is going to blow.
Second situation is easier IMO. My first year of teaching in 1987, I had first graders. I read a quote from somewhere that said, "My teacher thought I was smarter than I was, so I was." a 7 year old. That quote was the first thing that I saw each morning as I sat down at my desk. It became my mantra in teaching. Does it work every day? No. Some days it does not. Each morning is a fresh start. I had a kindergarten girl last year that was absolutely helpless. She couldn't say letters, sounds or beginning sight words. It was too hard. She forgot. And my personal favorite, "I can't read! I am blind!" I died. I just replied, "That is interesting because you knew that this story was about a cat from the cover." I called her on her nonsense (in a much milder tone than my brain wanted to use). When she said something ridiculous, I told her that didn't matter. I told her I was magical and could teach her to read. She just had to trust me and she'd learn. I didn't care if she read fast, if she forgot her words, she just had to try. This year she seemed to grow up a bit, but is still helpless now and then. I still have her in Title. I keep repeating the mantra. Today I was testing her on 20 sounds and 35 sight words. The girl got all 20 sounds and 34 words. I stopped, smiled and said, "I am so pleased you trusted me enough to teach you to read. You can do hard things." I adore this little friend. Today I found out she is moving. I am so glad I just kept pushing. Every single day. Eventually they start to make little break throughs and just run with them. My guess is the student gets out of doing things at home because sometimes it is just easier to do it yourself. When a child starts to cry in frustration, I grab them a Kleenex and usually just ask them to try once more. I'll offer more help and then stop on a positive note. Teaching is exhausting many days. I wish you luck!
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Post by malibou on Mar 6, 2025 2:19:36 GMT
I don't recall it being called chunking, but something like that is helped ds in kindergarten. They also taped a cardstock pattern of the shape he needed to cut to his paper and the thickness of the cardstock helped him track.
I so hope you find the solution to help X. Given that it suddenly started and is ramping up, my thought is going towards something neurological.
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Lurkingpea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,561
Apr 24, 2022 18:37:20 GMT
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Post by Lurkingpea on Mar 6, 2025 2:42:05 GMT
Thank you all! Lots of things to think about, I am just headed out for a movie, but definitely appreciate everything you all said!
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kate
Drama Llama
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Jun 26, 2014 3:30:05 GMT
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Post by kate on Mar 6, 2025 2:54:45 GMT
Assigned seats for sure; if you can't do that, then assigned "buddy" for the station (or the day), with pair work.
Kindness lessons - once during a particularly rough year, we had a Kindness Jar where we wrote up a slip of paper when we caught someone being kind. If you want, the kids can participate, looking for classmates being kind (the trick is that they cannot nominate their own kind deeds!)
I have a handful of tough nuts in K this year, so I'm feeling your pain!
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FuzzyMutt
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,644
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Post by FuzzyMutt on Mar 6, 2025 3:17:21 GMT
I have nothing to add in terms of suggestions.
But I love the commitment and care you guys put into your students.
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Post by aj2hall on Mar 6, 2025 3:28:26 GMT
I currently work with 1st and 3rd grade students but I worked with K last year. Hugs, they’re adorable but can be exhausting. I like the idea of classroom kindness lessons, if you can squeeze them in. The first grade teacher that I work with read Chrysanthemum to the kids in the beginning of the year and did an activity with a crumpled heart. There’s also this sweet story about a crumpled heart. www.amazon.com/dp/B014X65DQMThe other child, are they a perfectionist? Does everything have to be perfect? Maybe reminders that it’s OK if something isn’t perfect, you just need to try? I’m sure you’ve been in touch with the parents, but is there something going on at home? |
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artbabe
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Post by artbabe on Mar 6, 2025 11:55:09 GMT
In other situation I'm having is a child that is capable of skills and has demonstrated skills all year long now suddenly saying they can't do things. When there's a project that involves cutting they get frustrated and cry saying they can't do it after one snip. Yesterday they were hysterically sobbing because we were doing a map activity and they drew a house and hated the way it looked. It was the same kind of house every child draws, a square with a triangle on top. They used the ruler that was available and it was perfectly symmetrical and fine and nothing at all looked askance to me. Art teacher here. This isn't necessarily related to kindergarten age. I had an 8th grader tear up yesterday because he was struggling with an art activity. The fact that your issue seems to be a lot about scissors makes me wonder if the child isn't using the wrong hand, or the scissors are the wrong hand. Sometimes kids will draw with one hand and cut with another. |
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Mar 6, 2025 15:03:26 GMT
Have you talked with the parents to see if there is anything stressful going on at home?
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Post by grammadee on Mar 6, 2025 15:21:09 GMT
First of all, Lurkingpea, thank you for caring enough about these kids to look for answers, rather than writing the one kid off as a trouble maker. The ugly hair comment seems benign enough, but is the "chop you up into pieces" comment enough to trigger emergency intervention funds from your school board. You don't have to take the threat itself seriously, but it might be enough to free up the counselor's time or bring in someone else to get to the bottom of the situation. Are there changes coming up in either of these kids' lives that may separate them in the near future? One of my dgs's had early childhood trauma and has been diagnosed with RAD (don't know exactly what the initials stand for, but it means attachment issues beyond his control). When he feels a relationship slipping, or if he knows changes are coming--a new school, a move to a new neighbourhood, end of a school or sports season--he begins actively and unconsciously pushing those closest to him away. So he will start arguments/fights with friends, team mates. It makes rational sense, I guess if you view it that "if I leave YOU, then you can't leave ME" but that is not his process. It is more instinctive than anything. |
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Post by voltagain on Mar 6, 2025 15:41:05 GMT
The second child sounds like a child who has overheard adults being critical of her art. You know the competitive aunt/grandma saying "Sally does it so much better" sort of thing. For scissors specifically she may have used a pair at home to cut something she shouldn't have like sister's hair, some clothing or what have you so they told her she can't use scissors anymore but you are making her use the forbidden scissors. Not a teacher but when my dd was in K we had a similar issue with her being upset about something we told her she couldn't do but her teacher wanted her to do. DD didn't understand the nuanced line of when an activity was ok and when it was not.
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Post by lg on Mar 8, 2025 12:41:22 GMT
As the mother of a child born with weak hands and grip strength using scissors is like torture for them and requires a lot of patience and potentially physical therapy in worse cases than theirs.
As the mother of the same child who is also left handed please make sure they are using scissors with the cutting edge on the correct side… I tried using my right hand scissors using my left hand to show them how easy it is to cut and I ended up tearing the paper and folding it as the blade didn’t work properly. It took us three pairs of scissors to find ones that work for a lefty and they now live in our drawer in the kitchen for that child to use when they need to cut at home.
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Lurkingpea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,561
Apr 24, 2022 18:37:20 GMT
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Post by Lurkingpea on Mar 8, 2025 14:44:55 GMT
Thanks again for all the suggestions everyone.
For the one child, it isn't just cutting. It is every aspect of art. Drawing, coloring, etc
Our scissors are universal, so either hand can cut with them. I have a few left handed kids and she is very right handed, I had originally checked on that. She eats right handed, picks things up right handed, kicks and throws right handed. If things are set to her left side she automatically moves them to her right side.
I do think she has been "contaminated" as the lingo goes, but I just don't know how to combat it. She clearly has some feedback or something that ruined her self esteem in regards to art. I just don't know how to help her when she gets so upset.
I appreciate everyone. I did implement groups for activities, but have a meeting with parents of x next week. Principal will be there too. Will see what happens.
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Post by shescrafty on Mar 8, 2025 20:45:07 GMT
As far as X-she would get an assigned seat, an assigned spot in line, and an assigned “area” at recess (like you may play with the outdoor blocks today, or you may stay on the playground area). Her words (IMO) are atypical. By giving the child not being verbally caustic to have all of her choices and X getting limited choices maybe that will help her see that words have consequences. She would also have an assigned seat in the cafeteria away from Y. She would need to start showing kindness in order to earn back some of her privileges. I’m glad you are meeting with her parents and hope you all can work on a plan together.
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Post by Bobomommy on Mar 8, 2025 21:55:28 GMT
For x and y, I suggest “warm fuzzies”. Start by pulling the two children aside and talk about how words make us feel. Good words make us feel warm and fuzzy inside, but hurtful words feel bad. Sometimes we forget to say nice things to our friends. Put a bunch of Pom Pom balls in a container and put them where the two kids can access them. Have two empty containers available, one light colored, and one dark. (Maybe white and black or bright yellow and dark grey.) Every time x does a kind act or says a kind thing, the two can move a Pom Pom into the light colored empty container. If x says something hurtful, they move a Pom pom to the dark colored container. At the end of the week, have them work with you to count how many Pom poms are in each container. The goal is to work toward all positive and no negatives. It might take a while, but every week they should get closer to the goal. This activity encourages positive words and gives them a visual representation, which five- and six-year-olds need. For your art hesitant student, maybe provide opportunities for abstract art and torn paper art. Look at some examples of those types of art and let the students make “messy” art. Do some of your own before they start, pointing out “mistakes” and talking through how you can use the mistake. “Hmmm, I didn’t mean to color the roof green. What can I do?  I know! I’ll make this a building with a grass roof! Isn’t that fun, boys and girls?” I had a perfectionist student who thrived when I told everyone to make messy art. It normalized imperfection. |
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Post by lg on Mar 9, 2025 8:46:50 GMT
Totally agree with perfectionism and issues with art, same child also struggled with this so much and doesn’t like art as what they want to draw (ie what they see in their brain) isn’t what ends up on the page and that frustrates them to no end. No one has ever given negative feedback it is all self assessed failure. Abstract messy fun art to the rescue per previous pea poster
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Post by melanell on Mar 10, 2025 1:21:49 GMT
Have you talked with the parents to see if there is anything stressful going on at home? This was my first thought---that something had changed at home. My very first thought was a new sibling, but I imagine the child would have mentioned that if that as the case. |
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I know! I’ll make this a building with a grass roof! Isn’t that fun, boys and girls?” I had a perfectionist student who thrived when I told everyone to make messy art. It normalized imperfection. 