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Post by Really Red on Jul 7, 2014 12:08:16 GMT
My niece is getting married in a few months. I am thrilled for her. I live and work in the South and have heard numerous ugly comments about gay marriage. I am not embarrassed or ashamed in the slightest about my niece. I want to tell everyone how happy I am for her and her fiancee, but I dread listening to the comments and holding back my annoyance at them. I work directly with a woman (in the same office) who I otherwise like. I do not discuss religion or politics in the office, but she drops comments here and there. One that she dropped a few months ago was that "The Bible tells us it's not okay for two same-sex people to get married." I was not directly with her when she said that or I would have disagreed, but I am sure she will say something when I tell her about my niece. (The Bible is quoted often in my town.)
I don't want to not say anything about my niece because I am not embarrassed, but I want to have a response for this woman when she says stuff about the Bible. I think the Bible was written for its times and is subject to interpretation, but I am not even an amateur when it comes to refuting any of it.
Surely someone has something I can say when I hear her say something. I do not want to be rude or unkind, regardless of whether she is or not. I just want to calmly state that not only do *I* disagree, the Bible does as well, because I feel sure it must!
Thanks for your help!
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on Jul 7, 2014 12:16:09 GMT
I would not lie about it... but can' t you just say you are happy your niece is getting married and so much in love with her fiancee.
If it does come up then just say, I'm happy she is so in love and so happy. If they pursue it just say you don't care to discuss it.
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Dalai Mama
Drama Llama
La Pea Boheme
Posts: 6,985
Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on Jul 7, 2014 12:16:38 GMT
I'm not going to be much help because, if someone chooses to make a comment about my family, I would have no problem making a comment back.
But, IMO the Bible doesn't disagree with her, which is one of the many reasons I don't look to it as a source of morality.
ETA* Except one thing: as far as I know, the Bible doesn't say anything about same-sex relationships between two women.
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Post by AnastasiaBeaverhausn on Jul 7, 2014 12:17:41 GMT
Not sure how kind it is but it is a response for those Bible quoters. This was my first thought of a method for addressing this: West Wing - Dr. Jenna Jacobs |
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Post by AN on Jul 7, 2014 12:18:31 GMT
You're in the South? A quick "Bless Your Heart" should suffice.
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Post by peasapie on Jul 7, 2014 12:30:38 GMT
I know what you mean. The other day I mentioned that I have two lesbian friends who have had four children between them, all with the same sperm donor father. The person I was speaking to said, "Yeah, but they're gonna raise their kids to be gay." To which I replied, "Really? So does that mean their parents raised them to be gay, too?" I can't believe the ignorance of some people.
Personally, I wouldn't respond with anything other than, "We all have our own beliefs." You won't change hers.
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momto4kiddos
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Posts: 5,153
Jun 26, 2014 11:45:15 GMT
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Post by momto4kiddos on Jul 7, 2014 12:39:17 GMT
Personally, I wouldn't respond with anything other than, "We all have our own beliefs." You won't change hers. This might be your best bet! "We all have our own beliefs" rinse, rather and repeat if she tries to tell you about hers! People believe what they want to believe, you aren't going to change her opinion. The best you can hope for is to share your joyous news, tell her it's something you're happy about and then get her to shut her mouth if she spouts off about the subject. Congrats to your niece and fiancee! |
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Post by Really Red on Jul 7, 2014 12:44:33 GMT
I LOVED that blurb from the West Wing!! I saw it a long, long time ago and it was outstanding and is again today.
I know I won't change anyone's mind, but I do feel angry that my joy will be figuratively spit on by other people and I want to say something pointed to them. Saying I am thrilled for my niece is probably the best thing.
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Post by moveablefeast on Jul 7, 2014 12:47:26 GMT
I'll just be honest - if people want to have a real conversation around this, I am always up for it. Otherwise when people want to poke the puppy, I just don't. In that scenario for me, "I understand that many people believe that, but I disagree" is sufficient. Sometimes I have said, "Hey, I think we disagree on this one. Would you be interested in having a cup of coffee with me and talking about this?" if I've thought something productive can be gained. The problem for me is, though, that I do understand why people read the bible in a way that opposes same sex relationships. So smacking down a la West Wing doesn't work for me as an approach. I am in a church community that tends conservative on this one, and I have to decide whether I want to have productive relationships or if I just want to prove them wrong. (Sometimes I just want people to think about what they say!) All that said, I have often thought this to be a lengthy but thorough and reasoned faithful argument: www.gaychristian.net/justins_view.php(Failing at linking on my phone, sorry) |
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Country Ham
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Jun 25, 2014 19:32:08 GMT
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Post by Country Ham on Jul 7, 2014 12:55:08 GMT
Other then immediate family I rarely have seen people talk much about weddings other then to say they are attending their niece/nephew/cousin's wedding. Very rarely do I hear much else unless the people getting married are known to the group.
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Post by mikklynn on Jul 7, 2014 12:56:49 GMT
There are some people you just can't reason with. I like the "Bless your heart" response.
Others I use the argument that it's a civil rights issue, not a moral or religious issue.
Congratulations to your niece.
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grinningcat
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Jun 26, 2014 13:06:35 GMT
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Post by grinningcat on Jul 7, 2014 13:10:09 GMT
I don't think it's worth the time invested to find something nice to say to a bigot. Just be happy, say what you want, and just smack down the ignorance by living life the way it's supposed to be instead of stooping down to their myoptic, hateful level.
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lindas
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by lindas on Jul 7, 2014 13:21:32 GMT
Well colored me stupid but I don't see why the fact that it's a same sex marriage would even come up unless you made a point of mentioning it.
Why can't you just say your niece is getting married and you're happy about it, period.
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Post by pjaye on Jul 7, 2014 13:26:07 GMT
I wouldn't even bother trying to argue with or convince her.
Just go with how you feel:
"My niece is a great young woman and she's found someone she loves and who loves her in return, and no-one's ever going to convince me that there's anything wrong with that"
...and walk away, that's the end of any conversation on the topic.
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scrap4nick
Shy Member
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Post by scrap4nick on Jul 7, 2014 13:36:41 GMT
*snark* here....you could always politely inform her that Jesus will be providing the wine for the occasion, should she wish to attend and have her own sins forgiven? I've stopped a few conversations with that one.
I live in the south too, and hear it all the time and see it all over my FB. It's insane. I'm with the PP, that the Bible does not say anything about two women being together, only men being together. I've heard that men were engaging in homosexual relationship with teenage and underage boys, even while married to their wives, and this was seen as "lust and lasciviousness." (Forgive my spelling!) The sin they were referring to was lust outside of their marriages. I've also heard that in the Israelite tradition, sex was distinctly for the purpose of recreating, in order to grow their community. Any sex that was had that was not for the purpose of recreation was, therefore, against the law. Even "spilling the seed" as Onan did, was considered a sin.
But seriously, don't feel like you have to fight back or respond in any way to any negativity towards the wedding. Enjoy the festivities and continue to be happy for your niece, and I bet your niece is so happy that you are supportive of her. That, in the end, truly is the most important thing! Congratulations!
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Post by Kelly_MR on Jul 7, 2014 13:39:21 GMT
Not sure how kind it is but it is a response for those Bible quoters. This was my first thought of a method for addressing [/a][/quote] I forgot all about that scene. I will be saving for future reference  Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk |
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pyccku
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by pyccku on Jul 7, 2014 13:46:57 GMT
I wouldn't bother with Bible quotes or arguments - it's not going to change her mind, just as her comments won't change yours.
I like the "bless your heart" response. Or even just telling her "thanks for your opinion" and move on with the day. There is a time and a place to debate social issues, but this isn't one of them. You are happy for your niece and her fiancee, end of story.
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Post by worrywart on Jul 7, 2014 13:47:31 GMT
I get that you don't want to hear rude comments, but honestly, I'm not sure how many times the fact that my niece is getting married would come up in conversation...or the fact that it was a same sex marriage unless that is just mentioned in passing. I live in the south as well and have never had someone be rude to my face regarding gays or gay marriage, though I get that people all have their own opinions, I have not experienced rudeness or bible verse reciting...I would just go with the flow and if someone tried to debate gay marriage when you are sharing, cut them off, agree to disagree and move on!
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Post by gar on Jul 7, 2014 13:53:15 GMT
A certain type of smile might suffice  |
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Post by pmk on Jul 7, 2014 14:44:34 GMT
Personally, I wouldn't respond with anything other than, "We all have our own beliefs." You won't change hers. This might be your best bet! "We all have our own beliefs" rinse, rather and repeat if she tries to tell you about hers! People believe what they want to believe, you aren't going to change her opinion. The best you can hope for is to share your joyous news, tell her it's something you're happy about and then get her to shut her mouth if she spouts off about the subject. Congrats to your niece and fiancee! This is what I would tend to go with - we have lots of friends with a multitude of beliefs and I've learned to stick to this response when something contentious could kick off. |
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Post by Zee on Jul 7, 2014 14:58:08 GMT
Personally, if I didn't want to have an unpleasant conversation about something when I already know what my bigoted co-worker thinks of the subject, I wouldn't bring it up. It's your happy news but I don't know why you'd want to share it with her unless you're just looking to make a point with her. I try to leave all drama on the doorstep when I'm at work. I'm there to get a job done, not discuss hot button subjects. I can do that here if I feel the need! Congratulations to your niece, I'm glad her family is so accepting of her happiness with her fiancee. |
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Post by greenlegume on Jul 7, 2014 15:01:19 GMT
I agree with those who say there's really no need to mention anything other than your niece getting married. Not sure how the gay aspect would come up unless you bring it up. We don't ever feel the need to mention sexual orientation when discussing a heterosexual marriage, so why should we feel the need to bring it up when it's a homosexual marriage? Love is love.
and if someone is assy enough to make a derogatory comment, I'd probably go with "bless your heart," or "I'll give your opinion the consideration it deserves". + *sweet smile*
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MaryC
Full Member
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Jun 25, 2014 21:52:55 GMT
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Post by MaryC on Jul 7, 2014 15:02:49 GMT
Unless this person knows your niece, why would the subject of who she is marrying even come up? "I'm going to be off on blank date for my niece's wedding" - why should a simple statement of fact turn into a religious or political discussion?
Please don't take this the wrong way, but it almost sounds like you are using your niece's wedding as a reason to start something with a person you dislike, and that's unfair to your niece. It's her wedding, not a political event. She deserves to have it treated just like any other family wedding, not turned into some sort of agenda for you to educate people about same sex marriage. Just something to think about.
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Post by scraphappyinjax on Jul 7, 2014 15:12:17 GMT
Unless this person knows your niece, why would the subject of who she is marrying even come up? "I'm going to be off on blank date for my niece's wedding" - why should a simple statement of fact turn into a religious or political discussion? Please don't take this the wrong way, but it almost sounds like you are using your niece's wedding as a reason to start something with a person you dislike, and that's unfair to your niece. It's her wedding, not a political event. She deserves to have it treated just like any other family wedding, not turned into some sort of agenda for you to educate people about same sex marriage. Just something to think about. Agree 100%. You already know your co-worker holds conservatives beliefs so there isn't any reason to provoke her. |
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Post by snappinsami on Jul 7, 2014 15:20:08 GMT
I had a very good friendship dissolve a few years ago over this very topic. Not only couldn't my friend recognize that we can all have our own beliefs, but she couldn't understand why anyone would have some that were different than hers.
I don't see why it would have to come up with your co-worker. You could just say that you're going to your niece's wedding (congrats to her!), and leave it at that. If it happens to come up, though, either before or after, the "Well, we all have our own beliefs" and walking away will hopefully suffice. You'll never change her mind, and talking about it will be pointless, so hopefully keeping it short and sweet will be all you need to do.
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Post by Merge on Jul 7, 2014 15:25:46 GMT
I agree with "Bless your heart," but Miss Manners frequently tells people to reply with "Why do you want to know?" when asked a rude question. I think a puzzled, "Why would you say something like that?" could be just as effective. It's a rhetorical question, obviously, and has the effect of communicating your displeasure without actually going on the offensive. Any perceptive person would shut up at that point. If she persists, then you can shut her down with a condescending, "Bless your heart."  |
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Post by anxiousmom on Jul 7, 2014 15:36:05 GMT
"bless your heart, aren't you sweet." Smile, and walk away.
I use this response with unfortunate regularity when shutting down unwanted opinions. It is hard to argue with someone who is smiling and being nice to you.
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Post by pierogi on Jul 7, 2014 15:38:08 GMT
I disagree that you're using the niece's wedding as an excuse to start something. Quite the opposite: you'd rather not bring it up with this woman, or anyone else who has negative perceptions about the issue, because you're protective of her and her partner, and you don't to be her to be the focus of hurtful comments.
I like the strategy of not involving yourself in arguments with these people. "Bless your heart," or "we all have different opinions" are good non-responses that shut negativity down.
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Post by lucyg on Jul 7, 2014 15:44:10 GMT
While I agree there isn't necessarily much point in the OP deliberately bringing up the subject of her niece's GAY status if she knows it will set off her co-worker ... that horse may have already left the barn. If the co-worker already knows the niece is gay, then when OP says "my niece is getting married," the co-worker will be aware it's a same-sex marriage without being told specifically. Unless she thinks the niece has magically been saved. And I disagree that the OP isn't going to change her co-worker's mind. Maybe not this person specifically. But millions of people have changed their minds about same-sex marriage over the past 20 years. Hearing your normal, everyday friends and co-workers talk about it as though it's a normal, everyday kind of thing (which is what it's quickly becoming) is the fastest path toward acceptance. I think people SHOULD talk about it and reinforce that it's acceptable, not something to be ashamed of. |
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Post by Really Red on Jul 7, 2014 15:45:36 GMT
Hah. I understand that you're asking, but honestly, I never even considered not bringing it up. Not to provoke at all! I'm not in a normal office right now. Although I work in a big industry, I'm on a special project with two other people. The three of us work in a fabulous space and we all get along outstandingly. Both the other two are very conservative and I am very liberal. One guy likes to chat about stuff in a way that I love to participate. He's interested in my POV and I in his. We don't agree, but we don't put each other down. We do this when the other woman is not in the room (she's there half days). I grew up in the DC area and when I grew up, we all talked politics with people with opposing views and no one EVER yelled at each other or put each other down. It was stunning to me to move to places where people regularly did (of course, much of this is in the advent of the yelling "news" shows that didn't exist when I was growing up).
I like this other woman (and I believe I mentioned this in the OP). *I* just don't talk about things that she doesn't agree with. I don't agree with her about these things, but don't bring it up. Since the three of us work closely and depend regularly on each other, we do talk about our lives. My niece is getting married in Chicago so I have to leave my co-workers for a few days. They will want to see pictures and hear about my trip. I think that's pretty normal.
I wasn't thinking that you all probably think I work in an office and can easily avoid this conversation. I certainly can with nearly all of my other co-workers! Just not these two.
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