justmeami
Shy Member
Posts: 45 
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Post by justmeami on May 1, 2015 0:57:06 GMT
Okay, All Knowing Peas-
I recently applied for an internal position which would move me up into my boss's position (he's moved on to another company). I've done the research and know the value of the position, including the salary range that external candidates were told the position would pay.
It's a great opportunity and the level at which I want for my next career step. It does have a lot of responsibility as I've found out over the last two weeks while I've temporarily filled it. This is one of those "if you screw up, you could go to jail" type positions.
Today I received the verbal offer. The issue I have is this- The outside candidate pay range would have been from 20% to 30% higher pay than I currently make. The offer I got was 5% higher than I make. I know that companies never pay internal promotions what they do outside people but my first thought when I heard the number was to be extremely insulted. I was polite but I think the hiring manager expected me to do backflips when he told me the amount, which I did not do. I have to still get the formal written offer and then I have some time to decide.
So- do I:
1. Take the job at the offer. It's great experience and will look wonderful on the resume.
2. Counter back at 15% (or another number) higher and hope that I get at least 10%.
3. Say "thanks, I appreciate the job offer but can't accept it." and continue looking outside.
I know no one can say "definitely do this or don't do this" but I'd appreciate the other points of views. And "been there, done that" type information.
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Post by buddysmom on May 1, 2015 1:18:16 GMT
In our company, a S and P 500 company, it was a "given" that a promotion was a 10% increase.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 3, 2024 10:14:03 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2015 1:19:33 GMT
I'd go back with a counter probably somewhere in the middle....But sometimes the difference with hiring outside rather than promoting is that the outside person might have more experience (or actually just different experience at a different employer) at that specific level, versus moving someone up with no more experience than a few weeks of temporarily filling it.
We used to laugh at the HR Consulting firm -- if you wanted a promotion, you needed to go work at another HR Consulting firm for a while and then you actually came back at a higher level. There truly is some value to working in multiple different environments that can't be gotten from moving up at the same employer. Learning different policies, methods, procedures, etc.
But it doesn't hurt to ask...you can always negotiate for a specific raise after 3/6/9/12 months too -- after you have been able to prove your worth in that position.
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mochi
Full Member
Posts: 449
Jun 26, 2014 1:45:16 GMT
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Post by mochi on May 1, 2015 1:22:21 GMT
How do you know the outside candidate pay range was 20-30% higher? I believe you, just asking how you know. Is it on a job posting?
But I would personally do B. Come back at a higher percentage and hope they meet in the middle. It would be a lot better for them to negotiate with you since you already work there, know the system, etc.
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gsquaredmom
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,078
Jun 26, 2014 17:43:22 GMT
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Post by gsquaredmom on May 1, 2015 1:39:54 GMT
Is the outside number a total compensation package value, like insurance or other bennies, that you already have?
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on May 1, 2015 1:46:03 GMT
If you know the number advertised.. I would say so. You advertised the job for XX I think I deserve that much because over the last XX years I have proven myself to be ready for the job, as evidenced by the fact that you have offered it to me. By paying me in the range advertised you are actually saving money, you will not have to on board someone new and it would take them at least 3-4 months to get up to speed.
Women too often sell themselves short.. they will probably still counter under what they are advertising the post for.. but this way you are in no one undervaluing your self. By hiring you they are saving a LOT of money, on boarding, training and getting a new employee up to speed costs about 50% of the person's first year salary .
Good luck.. Remember they want you.. and you deserve to get paid what the position is worth!
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oceanchyck
Junior Member
Posts: 56
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Post by oceanchyck on May 1, 2015 2:21:54 GMT
I am a Recruiter for a large corporation and it never hurts to negotiate. However you need to prepare a well thought out response be be prepared to tell them why you bring the value to the role for the figure you're requesting. Speak to the contributions you've made to the organization and your department. You're a known commodity so you can also prefer back to (hopefully positive) performance appraisals you've received.
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Post by ~summer~ on May 1, 2015 2:42:50 GMT
A promotion should be at least a 10-15% increase.
I would not take it - I would counter back at 20% more.
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Post by scrapperal on May 1, 2015 3:33:18 GMT
I had a similar situation. A coworker left and her position was advertised. I was up for a promotion to the same level at the same time. I knew that I originally had been hired in at the low end of the scale because of the recession, but I didn't think that the company official "maximum" for a promotion should stop me making the minimum for the new job level. I was told there was no recourse, no negotiations, but I did "counter" with my experience (note that it wasn't as big of a leap in duties as what the OP's new job sounds like), no down time, that I would be training my coworker's replacement, etc. No go. But I was fortunate that my boss went to bat for me and my promotion came with a raise to the minimum of the pay grade...down to a quarter of percent to make sure that I didn't make anything extra.
I think I embarrassed the powers that be (I don't recommend this) when I asked if I left the company and they hired me back at the new level, would I make the minimum salary for that level and they said yes. I asked why I should have to quit to make make that salary. And there was awkward silence in the room.
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justmeami
Shy Member
Posts: 45
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Post by justmeami on May 1, 2015 10:40:21 GMT
First of all, thanks for the advice and information! It's nice to have outside, rational viewpoints.
Regarding the salary range and how I know- I know several of the candidates who applied. One of them (whom I've known for over 12 years and trust) called me after his interview with the recruiter and told me the salary range. That doesn't include bonuses (our company quit doing bonuses) and was the base salary.
I met and exceeded the qualifications for the position as listed in the job description. But those were so basic the people in our department (3 of us besides the manager) were actually worried that if that is all the manager ended up having we'd be in real trouble.
I've gone back and forth from insulted to "well, I should be thankful they offered me the job" ever since the offer. I've been seeing all those articles lately about the reason that women don't make as much as men because we don't ask for more money and don't negotiate. Based on those, other sources (including my gut feelings) and your input, I'm going to try and negotiate for more money.
I'll update you all when I know something more.
Thanks again!
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blue tulip
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,984
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Post by blue tulip on May 1, 2015 11:55:54 GMT
I think I embarrassed the powers that be (I don't recommend this) when I asked if I left the company and they hired me back at the new level, would I make the minimum salary for that level and they said yes. I asked why I should have to quit to make make that salary. And there was awkward silence in the room. I LOVE that you said that. well done.  |
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Post by Darcy Collins on May 1, 2015 15:02:28 GMT
First of all, thanks for the advice and information! It's nice to have outside, rational viewpoints. Regarding the salary range and how I know- I know several of the candidates who applied. One of them (whom I've known for over 12 years and trust) called me after his interview with the recruiter and told me the salary range. That doesn't include bonuses (our company quit doing bonuses) and was the base salary. I met and exceeded the qualifications for the position as listed in the job description. But those were so basic the people in our department (3 of us besides the manager) were actually worried that if that is all the manager ended up having we'd be in real trouble. I've gone back and forth from insulted to "well, I should be thankful they offered me the job" ever since the offer. I've been seeing all those articles lately about the reason that women don't make as much as men because we don't ask for more money and don't negotiate. Based on those, other sources (including my gut feelings) and your input, I'm going to try and negotiate for more money. I'll update you all when I know something more. Thanks again! I'm glad you're going to negotiate. As long as it's done professionally, it never hurts to ask. I found it interesting when I was hiring and managing, the dramatic difference in the percentage of men versus women who negotiated starting salaries, raises etc. Be professional, knowledgeable and CALM. If they turn you down, you can always decide if you want to turn the job down as you're not being compensated for the additional responsibility. |
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justmeami
Shy Member
Posts: 45
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Post by justmeami on May 1, 2015 22:14:05 GMT
So I put together a little speech about how I came up with the number I wanted, why I was the best candidate, etc. and practiced it on the drive in to work this morning. I was caught off guard a bit by how quick I got pulled into the manager's office with the letter but I think I got most of what I wanted to say out. I explained that I wanted a 15% increase from my current position. I'm hoping I came off as professional and knowledgeable like Darcy suggested but the calm part was a little hard as my hands were shaking. After my spiel, the manager said "You really shouldn't get hung up on the money, it's a great opportunity." I stated that I agreed but that I think the money should reflect the level of responsibilities. He said he'd get back to me after talking to HR.
This afternoon he came back with a counteroffer of 10%, which was the lowest amount I had decided I would take. I accepted and will be officially filling the position starting Monday!
I'm excited about the job though I'm sure I'm going to end up with more grey hair. And I'm glad that I stood up for myself and negotiated.
Thanks for the advice!
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Post by momof3pits on May 1, 2015 22:22:08 GMT
So I put together a little speech about how I came up with the number I wanted, why I was the best candidate, etc. and practiced it on the drive in to work this morning. I was caught off guard a bit by how quick I got pulled into the manager's office with the letter but I think I got most of what I wanted to say out. I explained that I wanted a 15% increase from my current position. I'm hoping I came off as professional and knowledgeable like Darcy suggested but the calm part was a little hard as my hands were shaking. After my spiel, the manager said "You really shouldn't get hung up on the money, it's a great opportunity." I stated that I agreed but that I think the money should reflect the level of responsibilities. He said he'd get back to me after talking to HR. This afternoon he came back with a counteroffer of 10%, which was the lowest amount I had decided I would take. I accepted and will be officially filling the position starting Monday! I'm excited about the job though I'm sure I'm going to end up with more grey hair. And I'm glad that I stood up for myself and negotiated. Thanks for the advice! Congrats on the new position. I'm glad you came away from negotiations feeling satisfied! It pisses me off that he told you not to get hung up on the money. I would bet anything he wouldn't say that to a male candidate. |
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justmeami
Shy Member
Posts: 45
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Post by justmeami on May 1, 2015 22:39:14 GMT
momof3pits- I totally agree that he wouldn't have said that to a guy. One of my guy friends in the same career field as me texted today and said "Remember you're worth as much as any man, break that glass ceiling."  I really think the manager was totally surprised I didn't leap at the first offer and countered. |
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