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Post by jumperhop on May 19, 2015 18:14:44 GMT
I just have to chuckle that one of the photos was the Salt Lake Temple that took 40 years to build was finished in 1893, and many people sacrificed so they could have a place to worship. What a love for The Lord they had.
Instead of thinking what you think churches should do with their money. Maybe focus on the good that they do. Do we point a finger and condemn or do we look in gratitude to the service and differences they make. If you have congregation of thousands of people of course they need a place to worship. Now I am not saying I agree with the $93 million dollar tag but has anyone said any thing positive about this congregation? With that many followers of Christ there has to be a lot. Jen
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jenkate77
Full Member
Posts: 427
Jun 26, 2014 1:33:16 GMT
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Post by jenkate77 on May 19, 2015 18:24:45 GMT
I'm not bothered by it, but I normally have a hard time shaming people for spending their money on what they want to. I mean - SOMEONE is giving buckets of cash to the Kardashians, but that's their money. If they want to build a church, then they should build a church. Then again, I am Mormon, and I have no issue with us investing our money in a mall. It's not as though we worship there.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 17, 2024 21:29:54 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2015 18:28:15 GMT
I just have to chuckle that one of the photos was the Salt Lake Temple that took 40 years to build was finished in 1893, and many people sacrificed so they could have a place to worship. What a love for The Lord they had. But the Lord himself taught his followers on the side of a mountain and on the sea shore. Jesus wasn't about buildings. He went to where the people were.
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Post by jumperhop on May 19, 2015 18:32:07 GMT
I just have to chuckle that one of the photos was the Salt Lake Temple that took 40 years to build was finished in 1893, and many people sacrificed so they could have a place to worship. What a love for The Lord they had. But the Lord himself taught his followers on the side of a mountain and on the sea shore. Yeah and he did a amazing job of it too. Perfect example! jen
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MizIndependent
Drama Llama
Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
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Post by MizIndependent on May 19, 2015 19:06:20 GMT
I just have to chuckle that one of the photos was the Salt Lake Temple that took 40 years to build was finished in 1893, and many people sacrificed so they could have a place to worship. What a love for The Lord they had. Instead of thinking what you think churches should do with their money. Maybe focus on the good that they do. Do we point a finger and condemn or do we look in gratitude to the service and differences they make. If you have congregation of thousands of people of course they need a place to worship. Now I am not saying I agree with the $93 million dollar tag but has anyone said any thing positive about this congregation? With that many followers of Christ there has to be a lot. Jen I literally have nothing positive to say about a church that runs a "Give To The Stained Glass Window" campaign. So few things are as offensive to me as something this freaking materialistic.
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Post by lumo on May 19, 2015 19:11:24 GMT
And I see I wasn't disappointed
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scrappinmama
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,883
Jun 26, 2014 12:54:09 GMT
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Post by scrappinmama on May 19, 2015 19:19:47 GMT
The hypocrisy is the worst part of it all. Obese, multiple-times divorced, etc. people sitting in a megachurch like the one pictured above, trying to explain away their extravagance on multi-million dollar facilities,complete with NFL-rivaling gyms, Starbucks, video game centers, etc. that they claim are going to "bring people to god," all while condemning non-Christians, homosexuals,"liberals," etc. Like jmurray said, the church linked in the OP has handed out a paltry million or two compared to the hundreds of millions they're spending on this building. Is it really to bring people to god? It feels like it's more about their own comfort and luxuries than in bringing people to god. Because, really, if you're going to call yourself a Christian, maybe the first and biggest rule you ought to have is to emulate Christ. The Christ in all the bibles I've read wouldn't be hanging out in one of these so-called churches. That was me that said the church raised 2 million for Christmas eve. That was Christmas eve along. They raise way more than that. My opinion on the subject is simple. The beauty of living in a free country is that you can choose to go to a small church, mega church, or no church at all. No one is being coerced into donating money. They are still donating to other charities. If you don't like it, don't go to a mega church. If you think Jesus would not approve of the church, leave it to Him to pass judgement. Otherwise, it has no impact on our day to day life what.
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Post by maryland on May 19, 2015 19:21:33 GMT
I read on the FAQ that it's in/near Kansas city. It's just gross. It's a Methodist church, which I somehow find surprising. I agree!
The mega churches I have seen are non-demonminational Christian or Protestant. I have never seen a Catholic mega church. There are a few big ones in Maryland and they are Protestant I think. One is Methodist Episcipalian. We have a Catholic church near us we 10,000 members, but the church is not overly large at all.
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Post by greenlegume on May 19, 2015 19:36:30 GMT
The hypocrisy is the worst part of it all. Obese, multiple-times divorced, etc. people sitting in a megachurch like the one pictured above, trying to explain away their extravagance on multi-million dollar facilities,complete with NFL-rivaling gyms, Starbucks, video game centers, etc. that they claim are going to "bring people to god," all while condemning non-Christians, homosexuals,"liberals," etc. Like jmurray said, the church linked in the OP has handed out a paltry million or two compared to the hundreds of millions they're spending on this building. Is it really to bring people to god? It feels like it's more about their own comfort and luxuries than in bringing people to god. Because, really, if you're going to call yourself a Christian, maybe the first and biggest rule you ought to have is to emulate Christ. The Christ in all the bibles I've read wouldn't be hanging out in one of these so-called churches. That was me that said the church raised 2 million for Christmas eve. That was Christmas eve along. They raise way more than that. My opinion on the subject is simple. The beauty of living in a free country is that you can choose to go to a small church, mega church, or no church at all. No one is being coerced into donating money. They are still donating to other charities. If you don't like it, don't go to a mega church. If you think Jesus would not approve of the church, leave it to Him to pass judgement. Otherwise, it has no impact on our day to day life what. Oh, I have no doubt that they do. The more important question should be where they spend it.
If you don't like homosexuality, don't be a homosexual. If you think Jesus would not approve of homosexuals, leave it it to him to pass judgment. Otherwise, homosexuality has no impact on your day to day life whatsoever.
When Christians quit judging those who are just as full of sin as they are by condemning, looking down on, and trying to deny civil rights to, then I'll quit pointing out the hypocrisy. Another beauty of a free country is that you can stand up and speak out on this kind of hypocrisy. Don't like it? Don't open the thread and don't read it. Non religious people have just as much right to be public about their views on religion as religious people do.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 17, 2024 21:29:54 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2015 19:41:52 GMT
The beauty of living in a free country is that you can choose to go to a small church, mega church, or no church at all. No one is being coerced into donating money. They are still donating to other charities. If you don't like it, don't go to a mega church. If you think Jesus would not approve of the church, leave it to Him to pass judgement. Otherwise, it has no impact on our day to day life what. Because they call themselves Christians, and Methodists, they do reflect on us all. Unfortunately. People lump us all together.
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Post by greenlegume on May 19, 2015 19:44:46 GMT
I read on the FAQ that it's in/near Kansas city. It's just gross. It's a Methodist church, which I somehow find surprising. I agree!
The mega churches I have seen are non-demonminational Christian or Protestant. I have never seen a Catholic mega church. There are a few big ones in Maryland and they are Protestant I think. One is Methodist Episcipalian. We have a Catholic church near us we 10,000 members, but the church is not overly large at all.
Catholics have a megachurch. It's called st. peter's basilica. eta: and now I see that with their acquisition of the Crystal Cathedral, the Catholics have a megachurch in America.
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scrappinmama
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,883
Jun 26, 2014 12:54:09 GMT
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Post by scrappinmama on May 19, 2015 20:19:25 GMT
The beauty of living in a free country is that you can choose to go to a small church, mega church, or no church at all. No one is being coerced into donating money. They are still donating to other charities. If you don't like it, don't go to a mega church. If you think Jesus would not approve of the church, leave it to Him to pass judgement. Otherwise, it has no impact on our day to day life what. Because they call themselves Christians, and Methodists, they do reflect on us all. Unfortunately. People lump us all together. Some people will always do that though, no matter what. Just look at some of the political threads on Two Peas. There are people who will always hate religion, always hate a certain political party, or ethnic group. Nothing we do will change their mind.
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Post by anonrefugee on May 19, 2015 20:20:10 GMT
I don't know about the referenced church, but we've lived a number of places with congregations and parishes of all denominations of 15-20K members.
In a lot of those towns a majority of the population were transplants and the church became a way to build a smaller community in a new place. I dislike the glorification of mega churches, but it's been eye opening and positive to see some of these churches become "home" and an extended family for members. There isn't anything wrong with a church serving the needs of its own members while also reaching out to the community or world needs.
If families are brought to the church by a gym, but decide to return Sunday to hear a message and eventually join and serve - it's not a bad thing. Obese thrice divorced people, or runway models, whatever... What's the saying? Church isn't for the saved- it's for the sinners?
I'm not worried about anyone else's hypocrisy, that would be a little ironic, wouldn't it?
If a living room, or cowboy service is your style, then that's great too. It's good to have options!
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raindancer
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,095
Jun 26, 2014 20:10:29 GMT
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Post by raindancer on May 19, 2015 20:20:55 GMT
I just have to chuckle that one of the photos was the Salt Lake Temple that took 40 years to build was finished in 1893, and many people sacrificed so they could have a place to worship. What a love for The Lord they had. Instead of thinking what you think churches should do with their money. Maybe focus on the good that they do. Do we point a finger and condemn or do we look in gratitude to the service and differences they make. If you have congregation of thousands of people of course they need a place to worship. Now I am not saying I agree with the $93 million dollar tag but has anyone said any thing positive about this congregation? With that many followers of Christ there has to be a lot. Jen What a thing to chuckle about. And I really don't think you want to talk about what churches do, because I am happy to start with yours. (Or rather what it *doesn't* do) while pretending to be good and stuff.
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scrappinmama
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,883
Jun 26, 2014 12:54:09 GMT
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Post by scrappinmama on May 19, 2015 20:25:53 GMT
That was me that said the church raised 2 million for Christmas eve. That was Christmas eve along. They raise way more than that. My opinion on the subject is simple. The beauty of living in a free country is that you can choose to go to a small church, mega church, or no church at all. No one is being coerced into donating money. They are still donating to other charities. If you don't like it, don't go to a mega church. If you think Jesus would not approve of the church, leave it to Him to pass judgement. Otherwise, it has no impact on our day to day life what. Oh, I have no doubt that they do. The more important question should be where they spend it.
If you don't like homosexuality, don't be a homosexual. If you think Jesus would not approve of homosexuals, leave it it to him to pass judgment. Otherwise, homosexuality has no impact on your day to day life whatsoever.
When Christians quit judging those who are just as full of sin as they are by condemning, looking down on, and trying to deny civil rights to, then I'll quit pointing out the hypocrisy. Another beauty of a free country is that you can stand up and speak out on this kind of hypocrisy. Don't like it? Don't open the thread and don't read it. Non religious people have just as much right to be public about their views on religion as religious people do. I never said not to speak your mind. Where did you read that from one of my posts? Or maybe you have me mixed up with someone else. Feel free to speak your mind. Not all Christians stand in judgement. I'm a Christian, and fully support gay marriage. You are making assumptions about me, and you are wrong.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 17, 2024 21:29:54 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2015 20:32:44 GMT
I just have to chuckle that one of the photos was the Salt Lake Temple that took 40 years to build was finished in 1893, and many people sacrificed so they could have a place to worship. What a love for The Lord they had. Instead of thinking what you think churches should do with their money. Maybe focus on the good that they do. Do we point a finger and condemn or do we look in gratitude to the service and differences they make. If you have congregation of thousands of people of course they need a place to worship. Now I am not saying I agree with the $93 million dollar tag but has anyone said any thing positive about this congregation? With that many followers of Christ there has to be a lot. Jen Just curious, a general question for everyone...What 'good' do churches do? What are their services to the communities? What differences do they make? OP, regarding your last sentence, I don't believe that mega congregations possess any more positive traits than an arena full of concert goers, or a stadium full of sports fans. Why would they have "a lot" of positive traits that we should focus upon and mention?
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raindancer
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,095
Jun 26, 2014 20:10:29 GMT
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Post by raindancer on May 19, 2015 20:39:46 GMT
I'm not bothered by it, but I normally have a hard time shaming people for spending their money on what they want to. I mean - SOMEONE is giving buckets of cash to the Kardashians, but that's their money. If they want to build a church, then they should build a church. Then again, I am Mormon, and I have no issue with us investing our money in a mall. It's not as though we worship there. I have come back to this over and over. I still don't know what the hell you are trying to say here and what the wink is for. Seriously. It just sounds so cold and so f'cking callous. I don't really even know how to address this comment. Since the Kardashians make millions being/doing nothing, then it somehow makes sense that your church takes 10% from even it's most poverty stricken members, to build a *mall*, a multi-BILLION dollar mall, ok? And don't you dare tell me that the church didn't use tithing money, because even though it wasn't "technically" tithing money, it was invested money *from* tithing that got them there. So semantics aren't necessary. And it does "take" the money, since without payment you are not a "worthy" member in full standing.
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stittsygirl
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,580
Location: In the leaves and rain.
Jun 25, 2014 19:57:33 GMT
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Post by stittsygirl on May 19, 2015 20:43:17 GMT
I just have to chuckle that one of the photos was the Salt Lake Temple that took 40 years to build was finished in 1893, and many people sacrificed so they could have a place to worship. What a love for The Lord they had. Instead of thinking what you think churches should do with their money. Maybe focus on the good that they do. Do we point a finger and condemn or do we look in gratitude to the service and differences they make. If you have congregation of thousands of people of course they need a place to worship. Now I am not saying I agree with the $93 million dollar tag but has anyone said any thing positive about this congregation? With that many followers of Christ there has to be a lot. Jen You're correct. The builders of the Salt Lake Temple were a faithful and hardworking people, who sacrificed much to build their temple. A more appropriate photo would be this - the LDS conference center in Salt Lake City, built at twice the cost of the Methodist church currently being discussed. As as far as looking at the good churches do, I fully agree. There are many that do great things in the world, including the LDS church, though usually it's more the people of the church than the organization itself. But I've always had a real problem with a church claiming to be the One True Church of Jesus Christ, but then spending over twice as much money on a high-end retail mall than they've spent on humanitarian aid in the past 30 years. Apparently that's just me though. Good thing I'm no longer a member that has to try to justify any of that to myself . Sorry for the hijack.
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Post by greenlegume on May 19, 2015 20:49:18 GMT
Oh, I have no doubt that they do. The more important question should be where they spend it.
If you don't like homosexuality, don't be a homosexual. If you think Jesus would not approve of homosexuals, leave it it to him to pass judgment. Otherwise, homosexuality has no impact on your day to day life whatsoever.
When Christians quit judging those who are just as full of sin as they are by condemning, looking down on, and trying to deny civil rights to, then I'll quit pointing out the hypocrisy. Another beauty of a free country is that you can stand up and speak out on this kind of hypocrisy. Don't like it? Don't open the thread and don't read it. Non religious people have just as much right to be public about their views on religion as religious people do. I never said not to speak your mind. Where did you read that from one of my posts? Or maybe you have me mixed up with someone else. Feel free to speak your mind. Not all Christians stand in judgement. I'm a Christian, and fully support gay marriage. You are making assumptions about me, and you are wrong. You quoted me, and then made some general statements on your views of religions and churches. I did the same. I don't have you mixed up with anyone. I wasn't speaking to one particular person with my post. The only personal assumption I've made about you is that you might possibly be Mormon, since the Salt Lake Temple being in that picture, for reasons that I don't understand, seemed to "make you chuckle." However, since the Mormon church has fought so hard and spent so much money to not allow gay marriage, I'd be very surprised to hear a Mormon proclaim that they fully support gay marriage. So, who knows?
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Post by wholarmor on May 19, 2015 20:49:27 GMT
All the multi-million dollar Mormon temples that are built all over the world, and people can only go in them if they are "worthy."
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Post by wholarmor on May 19, 2015 20:53:00 GMT
And greenlegume, I do happen to know Mormons who support gay marriage. It's rare- just like I am a Christian in the minority who supports gay marriage.
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Post by monklady123 on May 19, 2015 20:57:27 GMT
And greenlegume, I do happen to know Mormons who support gay marriage. It's rare- just like I am a Christian in the minority who supports gay marriage. I don't think you are necessarily a "Christian in the minority who supports gay marriage". There are many many many of us out there. The PCUSA (Presbyterian -- my denomination) just voted to allow it. Yes some churches are talking about leaving because of it. But there are many more who are rejoicing that it passed. There's the Episcopal church on its way. The UCCs have been there for awhile. The United Methodist isn't officially but I know so many Methodists who are working to get it changed. I don't think you are "in the minority", I just think that those who are against are the ones we hear about all the time.
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Post by greenlegume on May 19, 2015 21:02:57 GMT
I'm not bothered by it, but I normally have a hard time shaming people for spending their money on what they want to. I mean - SOMEONE is giving buckets of cash to the Kardashians, but that's their money. If they want to build a church, then they should build a church. Then again, I am Mormon, and I have no issue with us investing our money in a mall. It's not as though we worship there. I have come back to this over and over. I still don't know what the hell you are trying to say here and what the wink is for. Seriously. It just sounds so cold and so f'cking callous. I don't really even know how to address this comment. Since the Kardashians make millions being/doing nothing, then it somehow makes sense that your church takes 10% from even it's most poverty stricken members, to build a *mall*, a multi-BILLION dollar mall, ok? And don't you dare tell me that the church didn't use tithing money, because even though it wasn't "technically" tithing money, it was invested money *from* tithing that got them there. So semantics aren't necessary. And it does "take" the money, since without payment you are not a "worthy" member in full standing. The Kardashians also aren't going around condemning other for not having the same religious beliefs as they do. They're not claiming to be the only right path to god. They're also not trying to force their idea of "morality" onto others. And, as far as I know, the Kardashians aren't spending millions and millions trying to prevent homosexuals from getting married. The Kardashians aren't trying to be involved in politics, while milking their tax-free church status. The Kardashians are ridiculous for sure, but their money is not comparable in any way to the megachurches and malls of religions like the Mormons or Lakeview or the Methodist church in the op, or the Catholics' thrones of gold and hoards of treasures. So yeah, I don't get the Kardashian reference, either. They make their money on a completely different premise than religions.
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Post by greenlegume on May 19, 2015 21:07:39 GMT
And greenlegume, I do happen to know Mormons who support gay marriage. It's rare- just like I am a Christian in the minority who supports gay marriage. Good to know I can't quite wrap my head around belonging to a church that is so obviously anti-gay marriage when that's not what they believe, but I've always had just as hard of a time with catholics who are ok with birth control, divorce, and so many other things that perform mental gymnastics to explain their affiliation with the catholic church.
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Post by wholarmor on May 19, 2015 21:08:36 GMT
It would be interesting to see the numbers, monklady. I'm definitely a minority in the church that I attend, but I do see more and more Christians who are like-minded. I do think of the many Christian churches out there, we are still in the minority. It sure feels like it.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 17, 2024 21:29:54 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2015 21:21:56 GMT
I thought this was an interesting read
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MizIndependent
Drama Llama
Quit your bullpoop.
Posts: 5,836
Jun 25, 2014 19:43:16 GMT
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Post by MizIndependent on May 19, 2015 21:39:12 GMT
I thought this was an interesting read Indeed...very. Matthew 19:24 "Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."
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scrappinmama
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,883
Jun 26, 2014 12:54:09 GMT
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Post by scrappinmama on May 19, 2015 21:43:25 GMT
I never said not to speak your mind. Where did you read that from one of my posts? Or maybe you have me mixed up with someone else. Feel free to speak your mind. Not all Christians stand in judgement. I'm a Christian, and fully support gay marriage. You are making assumptions about me, and you are wrong. You quoted me, and then made some general statements on your views of religions and churches. I did the same. I don't have you mixed up with anyone. I wasn't speaking to one particular person with my post. The only personal assumption I've made about you is that you might possibly be Mormon, since the Salt Lake Temple being in that picture, for reasons that I don't understand, seemed to "make you chuckle." However, since the Mormon church has fought so hard and spent so much money to not allow gay marriage, I'd be very surprised to hear a Mormon proclaim that they fully support gay marriage. So, who knows? I don't mean this in a snarky way at all, but what are you talking about? You must have me confused with someone else. My avatar does look similar to other peas. I never posted a picture of a Mormon temple. I'm not Mormon. I have never been Mormon. And nothing on this thread made me chuckle. Maybe I responded to someone my using the quote button, and you thought it was me saying that? I don't know where you are getting this information from? In any event, I am now chuckling, because this has been one big pea misunderstanding.
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Post by greenlegume on May 19, 2015 22:06:52 GMT
scrappinmama, you are right that I mixed up some of your posts with jumperhop's chuckling about the Salt Lake Temple. Sorry about that!! I wish I could blame it on similar avatars, but upon closer inspection, I cannot use that as an excuse. I was just reading quickly, and somehow got jumbled. Sorry again for mixing up posts
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raindancer
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,095
Jun 26, 2014 20:10:29 GMT
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Post by raindancer on May 19, 2015 22:17:35 GMT
The hypocrisy is the worst part of it all. Obese, multiple-times divorced, etc. people sitting in a megachurch like the one pictured above, trying to explain away their extravagance on multi-million dollar facilities,complete with NFL-rivaling gyms, Starbucks, video game centers, etc. that they claim are going to "bring people to god," all while condemning non-Christians, homosexuals,"liberals," etc. Like jmurray said, the church linked in the OP has handed out a paltry million or two compared to the hundreds of millions they're spending on this building. Is it really to bring people to god? It feels like it's more about their own comfort and luxuries than in bringing people to god. Because, really, if you're going to call yourself a Christian, maybe the first and biggest rule you ought to have is to emulate Christ. The Christ in all the bibles I've read wouldn't be hanging out in one of these so-called churches. That was me that said the church raised 2 million for Christmas eve. That was Christmas eve along. They raise way more than that. My opinion on the subject is simple. The beauty of living in a free country is that you can choose to go to a small church, mega church, or no church at all. No one is being coerced into donating money. They are still donating to other charities. If you don't like it, don't go to a mega church. If you think Jesus would not approve of the church, leave it to Him to pass judgement. Otherwise, it has no impact on our day to day life what. You and I have a different definition of coercion then. I see the threat of eternity separate from God/burning in hell, etc. when you believe wholeheartedly in those things is the very definition of coercion.
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