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Post by gavinsmom on May 22, 2015 17:59:55 GMT
I do have a child and I would move heaven and earth to punish anyone who hurt my child. I've also monitored my child he feels excessively and have ALWAYS had very open dialogue. My son is a very mature 16yr old. Has always been light years ahead of his peers in maturity..some think because he is an only child and has always had 2 very devoted parents. I think it's just the way he is wired...I don't see ANY of the Duggars with a reasonable maturity level...maybe the girls because they've been mothers since they could tie their shoes I just couldn't measure Josh with the same measuring stick as I would have my son at that age...like a 40yr old man and a 2nd grade boy...normal boys wouldn't consider such actions...but I don't think josh or any Duggar is normal. I didn't 'get' at first the severity of the charges...I'm still not sure I would consider him a pedophile as I think he was still emotionally a child himself. That will remain to be seen. I certainly have sympathy and empathy for the victims! But I can't help but feel something for a messed up boy in a messed up world nothing about his upbringing has been a recipe for success. I'm out. My original intent had been misconstrued and furthering my point has only made it worse. I was raised and raised my son in a complete different world...acknowledging all feelings while laying boundaries. Knowing what was normal. My parents offered very little 'sex Ed' so I made sure I approached things differently with my son. Made sure he never felt shameful for natural curiosity. And NO..fondling ANYONE without consent is NEVER normal or okay. I guess i can liken my view as expecting someone who is mentally impaired to figure out quantum physics. But yes, I'm sure he DID 'know' better...and did it anyway
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tduby1
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,979
Jun 27, 2014 18:32:45 GMT
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Post by tduby1 on May 22, 2015 18:07:23 GMT
FYI- Not all fundamentalist Christians deal with sexual abuse/rape/child molestation in this way, and it's very offensive to say that. There are many people who are not the least bit religious who deal with such things the same way the Duggars did. Abuse/rape/molestation should be dealt with properly, no matter the religion/politics/wealth/power/etc of the people involved. I was raised as a fundy. In my opinion the majority do. If there was a fundy handbook the Duggar's followed it to a "T" in handling this. You are encouraged to take matters like this to the preacher to deal with and only once it is obvious it will become public, if it pertains to a fellow "Christian" and "preacher" will allow the proper Authorities to handle it. Now, who the "proper authorities" are depend on who the perpetrator is. If it is just your run of the mill church member the police will be called in. This will allow preacher to stand at the pulpit and assure his congregation these matters are taken very seriously and handled properly. If if the perpetrator is his son, his sons buddy, a deacon, a deacon's son, a staff member, or their kid it is handled much differently. It is either swept under the rug or if it's already widely known then "church discipline" is administered. What that amounts to is a vague confession in front of the congregation and being quickly moved to another unsuspecting congregation. (Google David Hyles, son of Jack Hyles who was a longtime fundy leader.) In these cases, if at all possible, the victim also is implied guilty and not really quite a victim after all and is run from the church. Child sexual abuse cases are relabeled as sexual sin, to soften the blow and imply the victim is just as guilty. (Google Tina Anderson-victim and also Google Jack Schaap son in law to Jack Hyles, who "inherited" the IFB- independent fundamental baptist- unofficial leadership.) An while not child abuse, Jack Hyles himself was guilty of some pretty serious sexual sins, that to this day are denied and covered up even though his own daughter and mistresses children have confirmed it. exited to add: for clarification, David Hyles was never accused of sexual abuses against a child, just sexual sin with adults and Physical abuse against children (def one but I think there might have been two questionable child deaths that pointed towards him as well.)
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Post by greenlegume on May 22, 2015 18:08:53 GMT
From (further down) the page in scrappower's last link: Not surprising, yet kind of unbelievable that a Republican seeking the nomination would say this.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 8, 2024 6:50:45 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2015 18:10:37 GMT
Well, it's not like Huckabee is a truly viable nominee, thankfully. But still.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 8, 2024 6:50:45 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2015 18:12:29 GMT
From (further down) the page in scrappower's last link: Not surprising, yet kind of unbelievable that a Republican seeking the nomination would say this. Ugh I missed that part. Disgusting. How can people think like this?
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Dalai Mama
Drama Llama
La Pea Boheme
Posts: 6,985
Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on May 22, 2015 18:24:01 GMT
I just found this: linkAt least one of the victims does not want to be identified. Sad all around. Good gravy - They aren't going to destroy the documents at the request of one victim. And the article as much as named that person - which of the girls were alive in 2003 and would still be a minor? Such crap.
And 'statue of limitations'?
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Post by padresfan619 on May 22, 2015 18:24:30 GMT
I'll believe the show is permanently off the air when there isn't a "Very Special Duggar Special" when Jessa is due to have her baby. I can't help but think this will be like the Duck Dynasty hiatus.
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tduby1
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,979
Jun 27, 2014 18:32:45 GMT
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Post by tduby1 on May 22, 2015 18:25:55 GMT
I do have a child and I would move heaven and earth to punish anyone who hurt my child. I've also monitored my child he feels excessively and have ALWAYS had very open dialogue. My son is a very mature 16yr old. Has always been light years ahead of his peers in maturity..some think because he is an only child and has always had 2 very devoted parents. I think it's just the way he is wired...I don't see ANY of the Duggars with a reasonable maturity level...maybe the girls because they've been mothers since they could tie their shoes I just couldn't measure Josh with the same measuring stick as I would have my son at that age...like a 40yr old man and a 2nd grade boy...normal boys wouldn't consider such actions...but I don't think josh or any Duggar is normal. I didn't 'get' at first the severity of the charges...I'm still not sure I would consider him a pedophile as I think he was still emotionally a child himself. That will remain to be seen. I certainly have sympathy and empathy for the victims! But I can't help but feel something for a messed up boy in a messed up world nothing about his upbringing has been a recipe for success. I'm out. My original intent had been misconstrued and furthering my point has only made it worse. I was raised and raised my son in a complete different world...acknowledging all feelings while laying boundaries. Knowing what was normal. My parents offered very little 'sex Ed' so I made sure I approached things differently with my son. Made sure he never felt shameful for natural curiosity. And NO..fondling ANYONE without consent is NEVER normal or okay. I guess i can liken my view as expecting someone who is mentally impaired to figure out quantum physics. But yes, I'm sure he DID 'know' better...and did it anyway Since I was the one who originally made the statement I am going to apologize. My statement was harsh. But I am standing my ground that you are wrong, I LIVED this life. The only difference was that I did attend Christian School with equally sheltered and controlled kids. This IS NOT normal, acceptable or even understandable behavior for 14 and 15 year old boys in that environment. I was raised with boys in that environment and I, like you, have a 16 year old and 13 year old boy raised outside that environment. The differences in them are minor. I have witnessed teenaged boys in both environments and feel qualified to say that. I'm not saying there aren't boys that offend in these circles but I am dismissing the very idea it is tied to their environment. I believe there is something fundamentally wrong with him that makes him desire children.
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Post by Regina Phalange on May 22, 2015 18:34:06 GMT
Well, at the risk of being cynical, I can't help but wonder if Jane Doe is one of his still-underage sisters and their parents, as her legal guardians, are initiating this action as much to protect Josh as anything. I had the exact same thought. And for her to still be a minor, she was under 6 at the time of the molestation. And that can sort of narrow it down to who it was, as well.
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Post by Regina Phalange on May 22, 2015 18:36:44 GMT
He has always come across to me as overly smug. And maybe Jim Bob built him up as the next patriarch, being the oldest boy, to carry on their beliefs. To betray his sisters like that ... disgusting. Those poor girls. Victimized and then forced to live their lives around what he *might* do again??? Sleeping fully clothed, in a group? Ridiculous. So he, Anna, and the kids will probably move home again. Jim Bob will set him up with a job/business, and everyone will all be in contact again. Blech. I also wonder if Jim Bob is going to pay back his back taxes. I read a while ago he and Anna owe over $10k to the IRS. (Just me thinking out loud)
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tiffanytwisted
Pearl Clutcher
you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave
Posts: 4,538
Jun 26, 2014 15:57:39 GMT
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Post by tiffanytwisted on May 22, 2015 18:41:07 GMT
Well, this certainly has turned into a long & winding thread, hasn't it? I started reading yesterday and got distracted, so I didn't get to post. Narcissistic thing that I am, even though it's pretty much , I will throw my two cents in. I liked the Duggar's show in the beginning. I found their lifestyle fascinating, was intrigued by her organizational ideas and really like Tater Tot Casserole (even if I'm the only one in my family who does). I probably didn't post on any threads about them, but I will admit that I liked them and their earlier shows. Nothing positive can be said about Josh or how that whole situation was handled. Criminal, deplorable, sickening . . . I think everyone can agree on that. As far as pulling the show, don't be surprised to see it come back. The Cosby Show went away for a while. It's back. One of my favorite shows of all time, 7th Heaven, took a brief hiatus and is now back. I'm going to guess it will be the same w/the Duggars.
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tduby1
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,979
Jun 27, 2014 18:32:45 GMT
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Post by tduby1 on May 22, 2015 18:54:38 GMT
Here is what I get. Sometimes things really, really horrible happen in families that are good. It upends them, throws them for a loop and not always are these things handled correctly. I would be devastated if my daughter came to me and said, "brother has been molesting me". I love my daughter with my whole heart. I love my sons with my whole heart. Could you even imagine? I can see parents trying to save the victims and the abuser. I can see making mistakes and missteps that are only apparent in hindsight. I have no doubt the Duggar's love their children equally regardless of sex and they *thought they were handling the situation in the best interest of them all-- obviously they weren't but I believe that was their intention.
BUT, with a big ole skeleton like that in my familial closet I can NOT see, after the fact, pursuing a contract to put my family in the media spotlight as America's moral compass. How naive could they have been to think that would never come out and devastate the entire family once more? No Way! If I found myself in that position I certainly wouldn't be pointing out other people's shortcomings. How smug does that make them? so like I said, I get things happen to good people, but these people are smug hypocrites.
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Post by momof3pits on May 22, 2015 18:55:30 GMT
I just found this: linkAt least one of the victims does not want to be identified. Sad all around. Well, at the risk of being cynical, I can't help but wonder if Jane Doe is one of his still-underage sisters and their parents, as her legal guardians, are initiating this action as much to protect Josh as anything. It said still underage. Has to be joy Anna?
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Post by alittleintrepid on May 22, 2015 18:55:53 GMT
I just found this: linkAt least one of the victims does not want to be identified. Sad all around. Well, at the risk of being cynical, I can't help but wonder if Jane Doe is one of his still-underage sisters and their parents, as her legal guardians, are initiating this action as much to protect Josh as anything. I think you're right.
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Deleted
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Oct 8, 2024 6:50:45 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2015 18:59:05 GMT
Well, at the risk of being cynical, I can't help but wonder if Jane Doe is one of his still-underage sisters and their parents, as her legal guardians, are initiating this action as much to protect Josh as anything. It said still underage. Has to be joy Anna? I can't say this with certainty, but I believe that somewhere in the police report, it's indicated that not *all* of the victims are the sisters. So, it is *possible* that this is someone who is not a family member. I THINK. I read a lot of the police report but not all of it, and I didn't see where a non-relative victim was indicated. However, I did read an article that said victims aren't only family members.
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Post by alittleintrepid on May 22, 2015 19:01:08 GMT
Well, at the risk of being cynical, I can't help but wonder if Jane Doe is one of his still-underage sisters and their parents, as her legal guardians, are initiating this action as much to protect Josh as anything. It said still underage. Has to be joy Anna? If it was a sibling that initiated the legal action to keep the documents sealed, she's the only sister who was born at the time and who is also still under 18. If there are still any people who think this was "curiosity" , I'll remind you that she was 4 years old when Josh was 14.
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Dalai Mama
Drama Llama
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Posts: 6,985
Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on May 22, 2015 19:11:40 GMT
Well, at the risk of being cynical, I can't help but wonder if Jane Doe is one of his still-underage sisters and their parents, as her legal guardians, are initiating this action as much to protect Josh as anything. It said still underage. Has to be joy Anna? Yup.
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Post by snugglebutter on May 22, 2015 19:14:41 GMT
And to think how they made such a big deal about saving his first kiss for his wedding day. I'm beyond disgusted with the whole family. And his victims had to stand up at his wedding. :-(
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Deleted
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Oct 8, 2024 6:50:45 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2015 19:16:03 GMT
This article said they pulled the show...not sure if it is permanent or temporary 19 kids and counting
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 8, 2024 6:50:45 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2015 19:18:46 GMT
Here is what I get. Sometimes things really, really horrible happen in families that are good. It upends them, throws them for a loop and not always are these things handled correctly. I would be devastated if my daughter came to me and said, "brother has been molesting me". I love my daughter with my whole heart. I love my sons with my whole heart. Could you even imagine? I can see parents trying to save the victims and the abuser. I can see making mistakes and missteps that are only apparent in hindsight. I have no doubt the Duggar's love their children equally regardless of sex and they *thought they were handling the situation in the best interest of them all-- obviously they weren't but I believe that was their intention. BUT, with a big ole skeleton like that in my familial closet I can NOT see, after the fact, pursuing a contract to put my family in the media spotlight as America's moral compass. How naive could they have been to think that would never come out and devastate the entire family once more? No Way! If I found myself in that position I certainly wouldn't be pointing out other people's shortcomings. How smug does that make them? so like I said, I get things happen to good people, but these people are smug hypocrites. I've been trying to think of what to post all day. And this is pretty much what I said to my dd today about the whole situation. But then again I don't understand the fascination with "reality" tv at all. I am surprised it took this long for this to be found out and documented.
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NoWomanNoCry
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,856
Jun 25, 2014 21:53:42 GMT
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Post by NoWomanNoCry on May 22, 2015 19:19:48 GMT
When I read that one of the victims weren't family the first thing I wondered was if it was any of the girls from The Bates family. They were often on the show with the Duggers and stayed with them.
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Post by knit.pea on May 22, 2015 19:20:03 GMT
It's pretty clear who it could be if it's a sibling I would think the parents believed the issue was dealt with, he apologized to the individuals, and the "safety" measures were put in place. Forgive, pray, and move forward. As in, no way he could have a real, psychological issue to get therapy for. I would think any counseling he had was through the church. I am assuming a lot, of course. What, exactly, made the magazine get this info via the FOIA? And Oprah's show was made aware of this, in 2006, and reported it?
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 8, 2024 6:50:45 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2015 20:05:35 GMT
I know I shouldn't be surprised, but I'm still appalled and disgusted by the Duggars' blog post regarding this issue. They barely even mention the girls, and make the entire thing about Josh and their love for God, and how great God is. I mean -- I get that religion is important to them -- but the fact that the focus isn't on the VICTIMS (other than a couple of generalized statements referencing how forgiven Josh is) really exemplifies the patriarchal system this family runs.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 8, 2024 6:50:45 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2015 20:08:08 GMT
Omg, I just read some of the comments on the link Ashley posted and am thoroughly disgusted.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 8, 2024 6:50:45 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2015 20:08:56 GMT
Omg, I just read some of the comments on the link Ashley posted and am thoroughly disgusted. I know, I had to stop reading after a handful because I was becoming reasonably irate.
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gloryjoy
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,332
Jun 26, 2014 12:35:32 GMT
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Post by gloryjoy on May 22, 2015 20:13:35 GMT
And if you read down further on their blog, there is no mention at all from their supporters/comments for the victims. It's all about Josh.
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Post by christine58 on May 22, 2015 20:21:10 GMT
And there are a whole slew of molesters out there who are happily married.
Oh yes I'm aware of that, but his curiosity came at a time when he had no other outlet. So that makes it ok?? Dear God....
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Post by stampbooker on May 22, 2015 20:21:15 GMT
I know I am going to regret this, but I am going to give my opinion anyway. I don't think that a 14 year old boy is irredeemable. I don't think that committing these crimes as a young teen means that he will forever be a pedophile. I think that when it is caught at that age it can be overcome.
His crimes were never made public knowledge. However, neither were they swept under the rug and forgotten about. He was sent away, he had counseling, the girls had counseling (some may think not enough or not the right kind, but that is speculation, not fact.) It was told to people at church. It was told to other people they were close with. Because so many people were told it seems to me that they were setting him up to be accountable and for people to keep an eye on him.
He has always talked about his struggles and that he had wrong thoughts. He didn't say what they were, but it seems that lots of people close to the family knew about it.
I think it is possible to commit a crime and a sin and be forgiven. There are still consequences, but forgiveness is possible. Maybe the sisters have forgiven him. Maybe they do not feel like they were being forced to live with their violator. Maybe they do not feel damaged.
I have seen a few random episodes here and there, but was never a regular watcher. I wonder if he was left alone with the girls when he returned back from his "punishment".
I am surprised that a police report on a minor can be made public.
Julie
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Olan
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Jul 13, 2014 21:23:27 GMT
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Post by Olan on May 22, 2015 20:38:05 GMT
I know I am going to regret this, but I am going to give my opinion anyway. I don't think that a 14 year old boy is irredeemable. I don't think that committing these crimes as a young teen means that he will forever be a pedophile. I think that when it is caught at that age it can be overcome. His crimes were never made public knowledge. However, neither were they swept under the rug and forgotten about. He was sent away, he had counseling, the girls had counseling (some may think not enough or not the right kind, but that is speculation, not fact.) It was told to people at church. It was told to other people they were close with. Because so many people were told it seems to me that they were setting him up to be accountable and for people to keep an eye on him. He has always talked about his struggles and that he had wrong thoughts. He didn't say what they were, but it seems that lots of people close to the family knew about it. I think it is possible to commit a crime and a sin and be forgiven. There are still consequences, but forgiveness is possible. Maybe the sisters have forgiven him. Maybe they do not feel like they were being forced to live with their violator. Maybe they do not feel damaged. I have seen a few random episodes here and there, but was never a regular watcher. I wonder if he was left alone with the girls when he returned back from his "punishment". I am surprised that a police report on a minor can be made public. Julie How can his victims/sisters not feel damaged when so much of their self worth is wrapped up in being chaste before marriage. I have a hard time extending grace and forgiveness to myself let alone the perpetrator of my assault and I think it's asking a lot of the Duggar girls to forgive repeated molestion.
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grammanisi
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Posts: 3,741
Jun 26, 2014 1:37:37 GMT
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Post by grammanisi on May 22, 2015 20:44:20 GMT
Reading replies on their blog was sickening. "this to shall pass, everyone makes a mistake, why drag this up now". Disgusting.
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