ingrid
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Jun 26, 2014 0:52:41 GMT
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Post by ingrid on Jul 12, 2014 17:49:06 GMT
There is a lot the article doesn't cover. Like why the decision to take him off of full time medication? It seems the family has arbitrarily picked a life choice that the patient is too young to deal with on his own. So they are going to need to adjust other choices that go along with it like paying someone to go as a handler, choosing a different educational setting (homebound schooling or a private school that is willing to accommodate the presence of a dog) OR wait to use a service dog at school until he is old/mature enough to be the handler himself. He can use the dog after school, week ends, holidays but make another control choice during the school week. I found another article that explains things a little more. The issue of medication still isn't completely clear to me, but it sounds like the family thinks the dog being able to detect seizures before they happen eliminates the need for medication, which I don't understand. The dog can detect them, but that doesn't stop them from happening, right? Article
I'm also a little confused by the family saying they only need someone to handle the leash and give simple commands, not walk, feed or bathe the dog. If the child is attending a full day of school, wouldn't the dog at least need to be taken outside for a bathroom break? Six hours seems like a long time for a dog to go without using the bathroom. I'm with the school on this one. I don't doubt that the dog is a support for the boy, but the school seems to have measures in place to make it possible for him to attend school safely. From what I've read so far, they seem to be in compliance with the ADA. Edited to add that it sounds like they stopped full-time meds because they could just give emergency medication when the dog senses a seizure is about to happen instead. ETA (again!) I think the family has made a personal choice to manage his epilepsy. If it works for them, that's wonderful, but the medication he could be taking didn't seem to make him unable to attend school in the past, especially since the school has staff on hand to assist in the event of a seizure. I know plenty of children with epilepsy who don't have access to a service dog and they still manage to attend school. The family is blessed to have the dog for sure, but I think they're pushing it by expecting the school to foot the bill.
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Deleted
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Apr 27, 2024 1:07:52 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2014 17:59:28 GMT
I found another article that explains things a little more. The issue of medication still isn't completely clear to me, but it sounds like the family thinks the dog being able to detect seizures before they happen eliminates the need for medication, which I don't understand. The dog can detect them, but that doesn't stop them from happening, right? Article
I'm also a little confused by the family saying they only need someone to handle the leash and give simple commands, not walk, feed or bathe the dog. If the child is attending a full day of school, wouldn't the dog at least need to be taken outside for a bathroom break? Six hours seems like a long time for a dog to go without using the bathroom. I'm with the school on this one. I don't doubt that the dog is a support for the boy, but the school seems to have measures in place to make it possible for him to attend school safely. From what I've read so far, they seem to be in compliance with the ADA. Edited to add that it sounds like they stopped full-time meds because they could just give emergency medication when the dog senses a seizure is about to happen instead. Dogs can go a full school day without a potty break. Many indoor dogs stay home while owners are at work without problems. So the dog shouldn't require being walked during the school day. It is the meds that have me confused. He was on a full time med. The family didn't say why they want him off of it. I don't know if there are debilitating side effects or if they just don't want him on meds. Or how often he has seizures. But you are right, the dog can only detect oncoming seizures and not prevent them. So now the school is also responsible for medicating the child instead of the meds being given before school.
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ingrid
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Jun 26, 2014 0:52:41 GMT
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Post by ingrid on Jul 12, 2014 18:06:54 GMT
I found another article that explains things a little more. The issue of medication still isn't completely clear to me, but it sounds like the family thinks the dog being able to detect seizures before they happen eliminates the need for medication, which I don't understand. The dog can detect them, but that doesn't stop them from happening, right? Article
I'm also a little confused by the family saying they only need someone to handle the leash and give simple commands, not walk, feed or bathe the dog. If the child is attending a full day of school, wouldn't the dog at least need to be taken outside for a bathroom break? Six hours seems like a long time for a dog to go without using the bathroom. I'm with the school on this one. I don't doubt that the dog is a support for the boy, but the school seems to have measures in place to make it possible for him to attend school safely. From what I've read so far, they seem to be in compliance with the ADA. Edited to add that it sounds like they stopped full-time meds because they could just give emergency medication when the dog senses a seizure is about to happen instead. Dogs can go a full school day without a potty break. Many indoor dogs stay home while owners are at work without problems. So the dog shouldn't require being walked during the school day. It is the meds that have me confused. He was on a full time med. The family didn't say why they want him off of it. I don't know if there are debilitating side effects or if they just don't want him on meds. Or how often he has seizures. But you are right, the dog can only detect oncoming seizures and not prevent them. So now the school is also responsible for medicating the child instead of the meds being given before school. I'm so lost as far as the needs of dogs after hearing about service dogs peeing on airplanes and needing to take breaks Either way, I feel like the family saying this dog will only need a few commands and the leash being handled is pretty optimistic. One of the service dog forums that came up during my initial search for more information was a bit upset about it too, saying the dog would need breaks and, at the very least, water.
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Post by maryland on Jul 12, 2014 18:11:55 GMT
I think it would be hard for many schools to pay for this. Many districts in our area are in debt even after raising taxes each year and cutting many important programs and classes. I think they have to be careful with spending and do what they can to help as many kids as they can.
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Post by fruitysuet on Jul 12, 2014 18:24:09 GMT
I am torn too.
This is a bad day for me to be trying to answer this question. I have a daughter who has a rare form of epilepsy that causes her brain to have too much electrical activity pretty much full time during the night and frequently during the day. She rarely has seizures that you would recognise but she did this morning (first time in several years) so I'm coming from a very emotionally invested viewpoint.
It sounds as though this child has a lot of medical problems and that his epilepsy is one part of that. I would also hazard a guess that, due to such a mix of problems, there is rather an array of medications he has to be on to try to control each individual problem. I always thought that epilepsy was like diabetes in that it was a lifelong condition that could be kept under control by the use of a commonly used and stated medication (like insulin for diabetics). How wrong.
My daughter has been diagnosed for over 5 years and the doctors have still not been able to find a medicine or combination of medicines that control her epilipsy. These medications are also the types that are also used to treat people with bipolar, schizophrenia, etc and so are not something that you give your child lightly. They can have dreadful side effects - sleepiness, anxiousness, weight gain, reduce ability to concentrate, depression and, at one point in my own daughter's case, a desire to self harm and worse.
I don't know what other medications this child needs for his other issues but it may well be that it has proven very difficult to get a regime that controls everything without having detrimental side effects to his personality and ability to learn.
So, personally, I fully support that they have found a method that helps to remove the need for the epilepsy controlling drugs.
I would like to know if he has a teaching aide. My own daughter does for almost all of her lessons. If he does and the authority are saying that the teaching aide is not to take responsibility for the dog, then I am definitely with the parents. If he does not have a teaching aide then I am struggling between my own emotions/empathy for the family and a more hard headed approach having regard to the financial aspects for the authority. Also I can't imagine that you would be able to provide a full time paid handler for as little as $3 an hour. Do you not have minimum wage regulations?
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Post by epeanymous on Jul 12, 2014 18:48:23 GMT
To me, it really depends on there necessity of the dog to access education. Many families could not afford $500 per month to send an aide in with the child, and one of my kids attended a school with a huge medically-fragile population of kids, many of whom had their own district-supplied aides, so I don't think of that as unusual if the child needs one. I am not sufficiently well-versed in epileptic seizures or service animals to know the utility of the dog in this particular situation.
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Post by magentapea on Jul 12, 2014 18:58:43 GMT
I think it should be on the family to pay for the handler. I have a few thoughts on why.
I would think there is a huge liability aspect of having a staff member handle the dog. I know service dogs are trained, but even the best trained dog is still an animal with animal instincts. If a staff member is handling the dog and it bites someone, that staff member would be considered negligent and the school could be liable.
Also, I would think it would be better to have a smaller circle of people handling the dog. If the school provides a handler this year, there is no guarantee that it will be the same person the following year, or the year after that - there's no guarantee that the handler will even remain with him the entire school year. If the family provides the handler, I would think there is a higher likelihood that person will remain with them. I guess what I'm trying to say is is it confusing for the dog to have multiple people giving commands?
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ingrid
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Jun 26, 2014 0:52:41 GMT
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Post by ingrid on Jul 12, 2014 18:59:16 GMT
Oh, Suzanne, I hope they find the right combination for your sweet girl soon. I'm so sorry for what she's going through
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Post by Lexica on Jul 12, 2014 19:05:22 GMT
Jul 12, 2014 9:44:09 GMT -5 Lexica said: I would think that a handler could be provided for less than $125 per week. --------------------------------- $125 a week is $25 a day. Our elementary school is in session for 7 hours each day. That's just over $3 an hour. I don't see how it could be any cheaper. I would volunteer my time before I took the commitment of a $3 an hour job. What I meant to say there was they may have to pay for a day or two once in a while, but if they provided their own family members, for free, I doubt they would end up paying $125 a week. I was drinking my first coffee of the day and not quite with it yet.
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Deleted
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Apr 27, 2024 1:07:52 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2014 19:07:14 GMT
Schools are required to provide FAPE, but they do not have to provide the world. In this case, the child is too young to be the handler, so the parents need to decide between paying for a handler (not too expensive) and returning the boy to medication. If the parents would rather, they could also choose homebound until the boy is old enough to be the dog's handler. My district won't provide a $200.00 app on their ipads, because they have something different at a lower cost they deem good enough. I send my son's own personal ipad with the app to school so he is using the same thing consistently. Forget about having a personal aide in *any* mainstream classes unless you have behavior problems or like to touch girls inappropriately on the playground. I don't think the school should foot the bill.
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Post by coaliesquirrel on Jul 12, 2014 19:30:17 GMT
I had (thankfully very mild) epilepsy in elementary school, and I can tell you how horrible those meds can be - everything Suzanne mentioned and more. With small & growing children, it's extraordinarily difficult to get daily dosages *just right* so that they're basically functional throughout the day but seizures are still controlled - and that's just dealing with a single med, not considering any additional meds that might interact.
As it sounds like the child also has CP and cognitive delays, I'd be surprised if he didn't already have an aide, and if he does, I don't see any reason that person could not handle the dog as well if it's really just holding the leash and using a few commands. If it's the school's requirement that there be a handler other than the child, then I think it's the school that needs to cover the cost of that.
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teddyw
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Jun 29, 2014 1:56:04 GMT
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Post by teddyw on Jul 12, 2014 19:32:31 GMT
Some students we've had with seizure disorders had full time aides. If he has one already surely that person could handle the dog. As far as the parents taking him off meds for seizures, he probably had side effects. I don't think the article paints a full picture of his condition. Some kids stop breathing or go unconscious with seizures. Surely avoiding that would be worth having the dog regardless of who pays. I don't know who should pay. I see so many frivolous expenses in the schools I go to that this seems necessary. I've not had a student with a dog for any reason but I would be happy to have an extra safety measure and I'm the nurse.
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Post by CarolinaGirl71 on Jul 13, 2014 0:30:48 GMT
I wish the article stated who would give the seizure preventive meds- does the teacher have it to give immediately, or do they have to call or go to the nurse? This gets complicated when the student changes classes and has more than one teacher/classroom. With medication or the dog, an aide would not be needed for a seizure student unless their seizures are frequent, as in multiple per day. In that case I doubt the student would be mainstreamed. As a teacher I am not permitted to dispense or hold any medications. I can't even keep cough drops in the room when a child brings them in. Last time I had a student who had seizures I assigned four students as runners. 1 called the office from our classroom phone, 1 went to the classroom to the left to alert the teacher, 1 to the classroom to the right to alert the teacher, and one to the office. I never wanted to be in a situation where I could not contact the office due to a busy signal. All other students immediately got up and quietly walked to the classroom across the hall. . . . . . . . Response From CarolinaGirl71I'm a former school nurse and your plan for the seizure student is the best I've ever seen. (When I wrote what I wrote, I was thinking of a student with epilepsy and a teacher who was very upset over a student having a seizure in the classroom - more than once). Also, when I wrote aide, I really meant the trainer for the dog - seems like one person could be there for the dog and the boy. Also, I kind of glossed over the part in the article where it said the parents opted for the dog INSTEAD of medication. In my former district, under some circumstances, (mostly epi-pens) the student kept the meds with them and the teachers went through special training to be able to use the pen (or supervise the use of by the student) as needed. This is back in the dark ages before there was a nurse in every school. I was sort of making assumptions of my previous circumstances, not really suggesting this be done without careful planning, but it didn't really come out that way as written.
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Post by freecharlie on Jul 13, 2014 1:09:58 GMT
I would think liability wise the district would have to supply someone with extensive training on the dog, the signals, and medication dispensing. I'm guessing it is a huge financial risk if the boy is not medicated correctly or if the dog alerts for a different reasons or...
In many instances the school district does pay for high cost items for students with severe special needs, but they certainly don't always provide the best out there. Often many of the needs are paid by medicaid or reimbursed by medicaid.
I think the issue may be that the dog is not necessary for the student to receive an education.
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Post by transprntbutterfly on Jul 13, 2014 1:10:06 GMT
This is a tough call. I certainly feel for the child and the parents, but understand the school's point. This little guy has multiple medical issues and I question, just as others, if he doesn't already have an aide, though it doesn't sound like he does from the article. the parents really are making it sound like the responsibilities of the handler are really simple, but I feel there is so much more involved. Who is going to be responsible if the dog bites someone? What if the child's teacher is allergic to dogs or has a fear of dogs? Who is going to pay for the training for the handler to learn all that could be necessary I dealing with this service dog? Who is going to screen and interview for this position? Do they expect the school district to also provide a substitute handler in the event that the primary handler is sick, on vacation, or off for any reason? The parents cannot expect a teacher to be the handler. The parents have chosen to use a service dog for this child. They need to assume some of the responsibility.
While I fully understand that they do not what to medicate their child, and have chosen a service animal, they truly cannot expect the child to accommodate the dog and proved a handler as well. I wonder who handles the dog now when the parents are not available?
This article raises many questions, but provides few answers. For the sake of this child, I truly hope that there is a reasonable resolution.
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Post by luv2scrapaboutmykids on Jul 13, 2014 1:14:02 GMT
While I feel for the family it is their responsibility to pay not the school.
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Post by Skellinton on Jul 13, 2014 1:20:30 GMT
I just find it very hard to believe a child with his disabilities doesn't already have an aide, at minimum part time, but in our school district (which is a MESS financially) he would have a full time para educator just for the seizures. I wish that was addressed somewhere.
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Post by iteach3rdgrade on Jul 13, 2014 4:56:47 GMT
I just find it very hard to believe a child with his disabilities doesn't already have an aide, at minimum part time, but in our school district (which is a MESS financially) he would have a full time para educator just for the seizures. I wish that was addressed somewhere. ETA: I agree. We have a county MH unit in both of our elementary buildings. If he has a lot of other issues then it sounds like that type of classroom could be more appropriate and allow for a dog with an aide already available in the room. I don't know much about service dogs, but I wonder what medical reasons prevent him from calling commands. My son is 7, so I understand what boys are like, but it seems more like a medical issue than an age issue. It isn't cheap to train raise and train those dogs. Wouldn't the company want to place the dogs with a person who can handle the dog after being trained? The dog should make the person more independent. It'd be less expensive for the district to pay a tutor to go to the home for 5 hours a week. There's always more to the story, so I wonder what it's really about.
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