Great Photo Scanning Thread by Benem (PKA Mariah2)

Calling on the infinite wisdom of the Peas. Serious photo scanning questions.......
Posted 6/18/2012 by leftturnonly in NSBR Board


leftturnonly
Posted: 6/18/2012 2:50:55 PM

I'm about to (fingers crossed) jump into a huge project for my family.

I'd love to scan in the thousands (or more) of old photos/negatives and finally be able to
edit them! That's been my dream for .... well, for longer than a lot of peas have been
alive.

Over the years, I've been the one with the camera at family events. I've never had a
really good camera and the processing has been hit or miss, so editing is desperately
needed to bring these to life.

I want to tag and categorize each photo as I work, so I can later give digital files to the
appropriate people. There are a lot family members in the photos that would love to
have copies.

I'm going to need the right equipment and programs to do this, and I need to learn a
processing flow that will make it possible.

Anybody know anything you'd like to pass along so this becomes more than just a pipe
dream?


Mariah2
Posted: 6/18/2012 3:01:38 PM

I have a business where I do this for people (or in your case, get you started). I have a
Facebook page - search for PalaDigital.

I would be happy to help you answer any questions you have. My business is local to
Chicago though, bc -- I actually show up at your house with my equipment!


leftturnonly
Posted: 6/18/2012 3:08:25 PM

WOOHOO!!!! Off to Facebook........


Mariah2
Posted: 6/18/2012 3:14:34 PM

I didn't answer your OP bc really those are a ton of huuuuuge questions.

For ME personally, this is what I do.

I store and organize photos by date and within dates I group them by event or similar
photos together.

I do most of my tagging and file management in the actual file name. I do not like using
photo software to organize my collections. The software stops being updated or you
decide to migrate to another machine and poof there goes your efforts. I have moved
my entire photo collection from computer to computer ot hard drive and it's completely
portable using my system.

First I say you need to organize your photos. My print photos are all in photo albums
(non sticky pages - slip ins). I organized them this way over 14 years ago. But when I
got into grad school for libraries, I finally snagged all of my mom's old, yellowing photo
albums from the 60s and boxes of pictures from the 70s and I scanned them all.

I bought good quality Pioneer albums that hold 300 pictures, 6 to a page.

I sorted all photos by decade and grouped similar pictures together. I put them into the
albums in chronological order.

I scanned a section at a time. I scanned most at 300 dpi. Small photos, wallet sizes, odd
sizes or ones where the people that I wanted to feature were small, I scanned at 600 dpi
which is preservation standard. I created TIFF files which is also preservation standard.

This makes them huge but is the best quality.

I created folders with the name of the event or grouping, with the date. The photos
themselves had the date and the peoples' names that were in them. If it was a big group
shot I might call it group. If I had no date I could usually figure out pretty close.

A photo might be named thus:

7712 Xmas Mom Joe Chris Bob me

The 4 digits indicate December of 1977 and I know this is a Christmas picture, and I
have the names of the people in it. It would be in a larger folder. If I had numerous
Christmas pics from 1977, the folder would be "7712 Christmas" and the photo would be
called

7712 Mom Joe Chris Bob me

No Christmas designation necessary.

If I only had the one photo, then it is loose in the 1977 folder. And it has Xmas or some
marker that it is a Christmas photo in the file name.

In this way, if I search "Bob" I get ALL photos with Bob in them. If I know the photo I
want was taken at Christmas, I can search "Christmas" and get all folders for Christmas.

I can search Xmas if I want to be sure.

I ALSO make sure to mark photos that have been scanned and HOW scanned in some
way. This varies depending on the photo and how it is stored but I got tired of
mistakenly rescanning photos. It's one thing if it's a specific photo like Christmas 1977.

It's another when I have hundreds of old photos from Poland filled with people I have no
name for.

Do you have more questions?


leftturnonly
Posted: 6/18/2012 3:28:09 PM


Tell me about it! I've lost so much work over the years.
Stupid updates.


What scanner are you using? Do you have a negative scanner? How'd you decide what
to buy?

Yep. I've got a million questions.


Mariah2
Posted: 6/18/2012 3:30:40 PM

Here is a blog post I wrote about how I organize my photo files. It goes into more detail.
I see you mentioned you wanted to edit your photos. I do that myself but within reason.
I'll share my process with you and you can think about these things.

Though my process has changed over the years here's how I fell about it now.

I scan my photos as TIFF files and not JPGs. I scan at 600 dpi and not 300 dpi. Most
digital cameras create files that are 300 dpi JPGs and that's a standard format. I use
preservation standards when I scan. However it takes longer and all that.

I do this so that I can edit my files. If you have a 4 x 6 photo and you want to crop it, at
300 dpi you are going to make it much smaller physically. I always keep in mind that I
may want to reprint this photo - that is why I am scanning, to create a digital negative. I
don't want to cut my 4 x 6 photo to 2 x 3" bc when I go to print it at a larger size, it will
blur. I scan at a higher resolution so if I crop it, there is enough data left to maintain the
image.

That said I do not tend to crop my files unless I have a reason to do so. My editing
consists of lightening images that are dark, and some color correction. What I want is to
be able to see what the image is OF. Other than that I prefer to maintain the integrity of
the original picture. Usually my alterations are very subtle. If they make the picture look
totally different (like I've run a bunch of actions on it to fix the color), I will keep a
"fixed" copy of my file.

I always want to maintain the original file. Remember back in the day when everyone
was cutting their pictures into funky shapes, and how 4 years later, everyone said "oh
how I wish I had not cut my ONLY copy of the picture into a star shape!!" and now you
look at those pages and you cringe. So don't do the digital equivalent of that. Play all
you want but use a copy.

Then when I want to share pictures (which I do, on Facebook or sending them to family
via email) or print them to scrapbook with (which I still do), I create a copy, make it
smaller, crop it, etc and convert it to a jpg and lower the resolution. Pictures shared
online only need to be 72 dpi. Compared to 600 dpi for preserving images long term.

I hope all this detail is helpful to you - I don't want to overwhelm you.
FYI I use PhotoShop, the full version. I have been using it professionally since 1997 so I
am comfortable with it. Not sure if PSE would be as good for such a large project.

Let me know if there is anything else. I could go on all day with this. Digitization is
something I love.

wannaplay
Posted: 6/18/2012 3:31:52 PM

And I'm lurking because my questions are getting answered, too. Thank you, Mariah, for
the awesome details. Very, very helpful!


leftturnonly
Posted: 6/18/2012 3:40:44 PM

Totally get you on the editing. I save changes as I go along under their own file name.
With batch processing, that pretty much limits intense editing. So does keeping the
integrity of the setting. I get that.

Still....... pulling out a face and obscuring backgrounds will be a priority for this.
TIFF I didn't know about. The DPI info sounds perfect.

I don't have the full Photoshop, and this is definitely part of the dream. I've used
Elements for a long time, though.

If PC is the way to get to Heaven, I'm going straight to Hell.


tiagirl
Posted: 6/18/2012 3:44:15 PM

I did this project. I decided that it would become my hobby until it was done. It took me
about a year to do my own photos and negatives. I bought a Canon scanner that would
do negatives and slides. My negatives were already sorted and dated in a very large
album. I just started at the beginning and worked my way through the binder.

I didn't really need to scan very many of my own photos because I had the negatives,
only photos where the negatives were lost.

If you have negatives, scan them rather than the photos and you will get a better digital
image that can be enlarged.

I then decided to scan all of my parents' photos, most of which I did not have negatives,
so I had to make do with the photo. They also had a lot of polaroids from the 70's, and
lots of slides.

After that I scanned my in-laws photos and slides.

When I was visiting my aunt out in Nova Scotia, I knew that she had all of my
grandparents' old albums and I wanted copies the photos. I didn't bring my scanner, but
I used my camera and tripod and took photos of the photos.

When visiting another aunt who had the photos of my other set of grandparents, she
lived closer to me so I took my scanner, laptop and camera with me and scanned
everything at her house so that she didn't have to worry about the photos leaving the
house. Some of those were from the late 1800s.

To organize them, I made a folder for my dad with two folders inside young dad and dad
(individual photos), same for my mother and each grandparent with dates. For each
grandparent's family I made a folder with their last name and just put all their siblings
and relatives in there with names and dates if possible.

I made a folder for myself and each of my siblings for our growing up photos. Then I
made one for each of their own families.

For my own kids I have a folder for each year, plus special ones like birthdays, baptism,
graduation etc.

I also made one for each year or each decade. For instance, for the 1960s there weren't
many photos that weren't split up into one of the folders for me or my siblings so I didn't
have a lot. There wasn't any need to make a folder for each year.

I also have a Christmas folder with each year, then label the photo as to who is in it.

This was a major project, but it is one that I am so glad that I completed. At the same
time, I removed all the photos from those old sticky photo albums and put them in
scrapbooking albums, just plain white pages, not fancy.

I am very glad I have copies of my grandparents' early years. I even have photos back
to my grandparents' grandparents.

Sorry this became so long! But please, do scan your photos. Oh, the other thing I did,
was to upload them to online storage so that if anything happened, all that work was not
wasted.

Good luck,
Karen


Mariah2
Posted: 6/18/2012 3:44:37 PM

I did as lot of research on scanners.

IMO the Plustek Optibook is the best flatbed scanner you can get for this kind of project.

I did not get it for a couple reasons

1) it does not work with Macs - I am a Mac user.
2) it is not portable.

For me, having a business where I am transporting my equipment, I needed a smaller
scanner. I have been doing some work for the Lithuanian Archive Project and for them I
use a Plustek (I don't own it tho). One major benefits is bed size. The Plustek can scan 6
-8 photos at a time, plus large items, whereas a smaller scanner only does 3-4 at a
time.

I did a lot of research when choosing my scanner, which is a Canon.

Here are some articles you might find helpful:

How to Buy a Scanner

Top Photo Scanners

Best Photo Scanners (link no longer valid)

I did not buy any in the article bc they were too low end for my business needs. I did
not want to show up with a cheap $100-200 scanner at a clent's house.

I will also say my Canon scanner came with PhotoShop Elements, for both Windows and
Mac. I still have the disks unused since I don't need PSE. But that was part of the price
of the scanner. So keep in mind they may offer you software with the scanner and make
sure it's something you can use and be comfortable with.

I don't see mine on Amazon any more - mainly bc I know it was over $400 and none of
the scanners on there ware in that price range. I got it much cheaper locally though.

When doing searches I would recommend you look at PHOTO scanners. DO not look at
document scanners or hybrid scanners. Not for what you want to do.

Mine also came with a negative scanner attachment. I have not tried to use it yet.


katiescarlett
Posted: 6/18/2012 3:48:04 PM

You might want to consider getting a smugmug or similar account where you can upload
your photos for your family to view, rather than trying to figure out which relative wants
copies of what.

I have slowly been scanning in my family photos. I upload them to smugmug by year,
but can break it down further within the year if necessary, Easter, Christmas, etc. Then I
can make the album private with a password and forward the link to relatives and they
can look and download what they want.


Mariah2
Posted: 6/18/2012 3:56:26 PM

Karen I am so impressed. THis is a big project and you did it in a year?!?! Wow.

When visiting another aunt who had the photos of my other set of
grandparents, she lived closer to me so I took my scanner, laptop and
camera with me and scanned everything at her house so that she didn't
have to worry about the photos leaving the house. Some of those were from
the late 1800s.

That is exactly why I started PalaDigital -- btw I found the direct link (I think) --

PalaDigital

aaargh I already see a typo I have to fix! I don't care about typos on a MB but I do on
professional materials.

Anyway -- Because when you have precious family photos you generally do not want to
be mailing them out to a scanning service where people you don't know are feeding
them thru a machine. It's more efficient and cheaper per print to do that, but you have
to let them out of your possession. With PalaDigital I scan your stuff at your house while
you are on-site to set priorities and make the judgement calls (with my advice and
suggestions).

Karen is also correct that it is always better to scan from a negative than a print. Much
better quality that way. But I am usually scanning pics for which there are no negatives.
I also find that negative holders only hold 35 mm film. Many of my older negatives are
in other formats and therefore I can't scan them.

I may figure it out one day.


Mariah2
Posted: 6/18/2012 4:01:20 PM

Having some kind of backup and sharing service is also a great idea. At this point we are
still talking what kind of scanner so that might be too much.

Personally I used my Shutterfly account. Just uploaded there. And created a Share page,
with albums for people to view. If they want copies they can ask and I arrange it. That
does not back up my digital files though so it is an imperfect system. For me, I do not
have internet at home and having an older Mac sometimes internet things do not work
so well on my laptop. Gets back again to digital obsolescence and migration issues. My
laptop works just fine for me but since it has a Power PC Processor, many internet things
can no longer be upgraded, which is super annoying.

This is why I back up (for the moment) to an external Hard Drive. And yes there is
always a chance something could happen to it. That is why I keep the prints and my
negatives.


voltagain
Posted: 6/18/2012 4:02:53 PM

I wouldn't recommend full out photoshop for what you are wanting to do unless you
have a student in the house to get you a discount.

Adobe Lightroom will do the same for you for less start up cost and easier to learn to
navagate. It was originally built as an image library organizer. Fantastic for that. Over
the years their editing tools have gotten more extensive but they are much more user
friendly than full blown photoshop.


leftturnonly
Posted: 6/18/2012 4:16:01 PM


I kept the negatives organized too. What scanner did you use? The one I tried had a
very poor quality with negatives, FAR less than it could scan the photos themselves.
Defeated the purpose, since a lot of the photos had rather poor developing in the
printing process.


My late husband and I did this too, back in the early 1990's.


Fantastic! Good for you! I'm in total awe.


Who do you use?


I can only imagine how important that is. God bless you for this work. Which scanner do
you use for them? And which Canon are you using?


Photo scanner, exactly. Since I had such a poor experience with the negative
attachment on one already, and I have thousands of negatives, I want to look into a
negative scanner too.

Smugmug. Good to know!


I've got some all kinds of sizes! I've got some really old ones.


Nope. I need info on the whole thing.

I've played around a lot over the years. I'm not completely novice, but my efforts
haven't paid off productively. Time to step up my game!


This has already happened to me! It cost a bloody fortune to get stuff off the hard drive!


I do, and this is definitely something under current discussion.


I've heard good things about Lightroom. I've never *seen* it in person.
This very well may be more of what I need then full Photoshop.


tiagirl
Posted: 6/18/2012 4:21:54 PM

Mariah, it might have taken my two years to do the photos. But I worked on it most
nights. Then I got my parents' photos and in-laws' at different times. That's just the
scanning. I have tons and tons of editing to do. I have barely scratched the surface of
that task!

I use Fotki for my online storage. I also have multiple hard drives with more copies and
dvds with copies. I don't want to do that work all over again!

I do find that I use Lightroom first and it works for most of my needs. Then if I need to
clone or do something more intense I take it over to Photoshop. I started doing this with
Elements 3! But now I have Photoshop CS5 and Lightroom 3. I don't know if it is worth
upgrading to Lightroom 4.

Karen


leftturnonly
Posted: 6/18/2012 4:27:26 PM


I've never heard of Fotki.

Have you ever heard of a dual hard drive? When our's failed, this came up but we never
did anything about it.

I have friends who are professional natural photographers that had their hard drives
crash.


MissBianca
Posted: 6/18/2012 4:37:06 PM

Mariah, Would the Canon work for slides?

My dad probably has 40-50 carrousels of slides from his days in the Coast Guard and my
entire childhood.

On top of that my mom has a culled all of the photos and negatives and the stack is
probably 4 feet wide and about 5 feet tall of boxes and bags with stuff in it.

I need something that can do slides, negatives, and photos.
Oh and I'm a Mac user too.

This is supposed to be our summer project. I'm already dreading it!

Karen, thanks for the suggestion of taking pictures of the pictures. I have some
wonderful pictures of my grandfather as a boy but they are like 16x20. Those would
probably be better off being photographed.


Mariah2
Posted: 6/18/2012 5:04:51 PM

The Canon I have has a slide holder. But -- it holds 3 slides at a time. I mean, really,
that will take forever.

I think if you are doing 1000s and 1000s of slides (or negatives) you might want to
invest in a special piece of equipment for the project. When done you can keep it or sell
it on craigslist.

Plustek Slide Scanners

In terms of the EHD -- I have a photographer friend who has 2 hard drives and a safe
deposit box. Every month she swaps the drive in her house with the one at the bank and
she backs them up when she takes them to the bank. It works for her.

The BEST way to store images is always going to be print. Digital files are fragile.

I have a presentation I am trying to market to local libraries on how to care for and tend
to big collections of digital photo files.


Mariah2
Posted: 6/18/2012 5:05:42 PM

I'll try and keep an eye on this thread but I have an appt tonight. So feel free to peamail
as well or bump the thread.


leftturnonly
Posted: 6/18/2012 5:08:31 PM


Wish I lived closer. I need to learn all about this very thing.


TheBiscuitScraps
Posted: 6/18/2012 5:35:04 PM

Awesome information, here. Thank you everyone. I've just created my table (key) for
family names to go with my scanned images for naming my files. I'm one step into the
process, thanks to this thread.

I'm a nomenclature snob, so may I suggest that you create a family name key in the
beginning of this project. Through the years, there will be several people with the same
name. We have 4 Edwins (FIL, DH, DS, DGS). Each must have a different file name, so a
key in the beginning helps you and others in your family to know who they are. Adding
birth dates and death dates will help genealogy buffs in the family and help with photo
genealogy for yourself.

Example of Edwins:

Edwin1
BudS (nickname)
RodS (nickname)
Nigel(middle name)

Also, name all your family...do not use Mom or Me.

Create your key in a spreadsheet or table so each family member can understand your
filename system. If something happens to the person beginning the scanning organizing,
God forbid, there will be a way for anyone to know who the person is when taking over
the project, as well as any family member who chooses to take advantage of your
shared photos.

You should have at least 7 or 8 cells per name, depending on how you denote maiden
names. The commas below delineate each cell.

This is my name:  Salter, Craven, Carol, Ann, N/A, 1947, N/A, Carol1

Salter, N/A, Edwin, N/A, N/A, 1908, 1979, Edwin1
Salter, N/A, Edwin, Roger, Sr, 1947, N/A, BudS
Salter, N/A, Edwin, Roger, Jr, 1974, N/A, RodS
Salter, N/A, Edwin, Nigel, N/A, 2009, N/A, Nigel

There are several ways to denote maiden names, but I chose to use a 2nd column for
Nee.

This is how I see maiden names denoted in genealogy searches.

Jane Doe, née Smith
Jane Doe née Smith
Jane Doe (Smith)
Jane Smith-Doe

Carol


obsidian
Posted: 6/18/2012 5:53:32 PM

If intending to scan negatives and slides check out the online reviews for printers and
ask around. A freind had a Printer which made it all so easy. I did have slides
professionally copied, IMHO hers were better.

I do recommend all photos are scanned at 600 dpi minimum. I made the mistake of
scanning at 300 for a project. When I shared the images with family they all wanted to
enlarge their favourite images. So now there are 101 blown out images in photobooks
and hanging on walls. For printing online or at a photo store it's easy in PSE to create a
copy to 300 dpi jpeg so print kiosks and online services can handle the file size.

I do scan much bigger then strictly necessary it's future proofing. In 07 I could get
photos and photo books printed at 150 dpi so 300 was fine. Now all files must be 300
dpi. In a few years 600 will more then likley be the minimum size for printing.

In order to have room for the larger image files I do have a 1.5 T external hard drive. It
has more then enough room. 2T are quite cheap now too.

I have my virtual memory set at 3 gig this is the lowest I would go in size. A large
virtual memory is a must for graphics heavy projects My graphics program will not
freeze up when editing photos scanned 2400 dpi. (I just wanted to see if that would
crash PSE the answer was no.)

For organizing and editing I use PSE it is more than sufficient. There are more than
enough free filters and actions for PSE which help with photo restoration. I use them a
lot. I also use, adjustment layers a lot these are great for bringing back definition in old
scanned photos esp. black and white. I remove the colour from a scanned Black and
white image back to create a grey scale image then use an adjustment layer to bring
back detail and definition. The end result is amazing.

For old and damaged images I scanning as large as my system can take. My parents
wedding photos have mould damage. It is a lot easier removing the mould at 900 and
1200 dpi. The file is insanely huge. But I can copy a small part of the image clean it up
and then paste it back together as a new image. The more pixels I have to play with the
crisper the end result. I have tried doing it at 600, it suffices but 9000 or 1200 is so
much easier for me.

I scan as many photos on my scanner as I can fit and cover the whole scanner bed with
with clean white paper to keep any light leaks out. I then crop them into individual
photos in PSE. It's quicker and gives a more even scan result then one image at a time.

Pace yourself scanning images and editing them takes time. Set up a routine where you
do a batch a day or every few days so it does not become chore.

I hope this is some use.


leftturnonly
Posted: 6/18/2012 6:06:21 PM


You've no idea how ridiculously happy that just made me.

Great point about the names, Carol!


What printer did she use?


Guess I'll be looking at new external hard drives in the future.


I.WILL.NEVER.ORGANIZE.THIS.WAY.AGAIN!. Editing is great, though. I have some
awesome filters and actions.

What are you doing in your adjustment layer? Always like to learn new tricks.


So obvious, I never thought of it.


Good tip.


voltagain
Posted: 6/18/2012 9:54:00 PM

Adobe downloads I can't find how long for the Lightroom. I think it is a 30 day free trial.
But if you have some time to play with it their free downloads are a great way to get a
feel for their products.


leftturnonly
Posted: 6/18/2012 11:44:41 PM


Thwack. That's the sound of me smacking my forehead. Perfect! I've done this with
several other programs, but I didn't think of it for Lightroom.

Hopefully, I'll be able to get started on this soon. I'm getting excited. Thanks for all your
good ideas.


obsidian
Posted: 6/19/2012 12:37:58 AM

Sorry about how messy this will look. I have put my replys in italics. I can't do colour I
have tried it comes out funny.


It was a cannon.This was a few years ago it had the best reviews from a respected
consumer advocacy group. Technology has moved on since then or I would post the
model number.


I admit that I hated using PSE for organization. I have to update the index so often
delete copys of copys. I have used easyshare for all my organization for years. It now
comes with that awful digital scrabooking addon so I no longer recommend it. Adobe
does have a great tagging and sorting program that comes as part of the package for
photoshop. I cannot remember the name of it. Right now due to a lack of a better option
I'm using PSE organizer more and more. Ideally I would like to buy the better photoshop
and lightroom package.


I use an adjustment layer for almost everything as it is easier to restart if I make a
mistake than working on the the photo layer itself. I can have multiple adjustment
layers over a photo and tweak each layer just so. I start with contrast and brightness to
even out exposure and bring back definition and detail. Then I start working on more
subtle balances. If I can't get it looking right like that then I Google a tutorial and follow
it. It sounds like the easy option and it is. I know if I miss a step it messes up the time I
have to do my editing. Sometimes google is my freind. There are some good tutorials on
the Photography board here they do need to be searched for. And there is a wealth of
digi tutorials on the pod. I have used the tutorials here so much.


I wish I had though of it early in my scanning. The big mistake I was making was trying
to scan photos from different eras together. They are printed on different thickness
cardstock. Once I started scanning like with like, it was so easy. It's the simple stuff
which messes me up every time. lol.

I'm glad I was helpful. Positive feedback is always appreciated. .


leftturnonly
Posted: 6/19/2012 1:47:11 AM

Has anyone actually used the Plustek OpticFilm 7600iSE? It's a fraction of the cost of
some of the other negative scanners, but it's several years old. How is it with the latest
operating systems? Is it even worth it if I get one of these other scanners?

Dare I even ask about the Nikon Super Coolscan 5000 ED or 9000 ED?

Anyone use the CanoScan 9000F from Canon?

or the Epson Perfection V700 Photo Scanner?

Obsidian, I was patient. I was consistent. When Elements updated, when my operating
system updated, through moves and hurricanes ....... I was loyal. And Elements
Organizer snarled up my entire computer and then left me high and dry without so much
as a tag to remember it by.

It was a very bad breakup. I still haven't forgiven it.......

I'm going to have to spend some time playing in the adjustment layers! I've mainly used
them to blur backgrounds and pimples so far.

It's been some time since I've been over to the photo board. I thought I'd bring it up
here first, and I'm really glad I did.


obsidian
Posted: 6/19/2012 2:02:22 AM


I know I need to update my version of Photoshop, but I keep hearing stories of how the
latest and greatest version crashes OS's.

I have an older epson scanner printer combo. CX3900 (now obsolete I think.) it is great
it survived being stuffed with toddler sandwiches. My version did not come with a
negative scanner attachment I had to buy one as extra. It is a little heavy on the ink but
I like being able to buy each colour as I need it and they are often on sale.

So when going to buy a scanner check for the little extras like a frame to hold slides.


leftturnonly
Posted: 6/19/2012 2:16:46 AM


That's Hilarious!

I don't want a scanner/printer combo for this. I'm not planning on doing very much
printing myself.

I checked around a couple of years ago, and Sam's/Walmart did the best printing. I was
shocked, I tell ya! (I hope they're still as good now.) They actually printed what was on
my monitor. None of the others could turn their "boost" enhancements completely off.


AngieandSnoopy
Posted: 6/19/2012 8:47:27 AM

Thanks for the post Lefty!

I've already "started" on this project by getting TWO 1.5T external hard drives! I got a
great deal at work, the two cost less than one would have.

Those of you really into this, what do you think of the CanoScan 5600F? I've just always
like the way Canon products work compared to HP and some of the others. It seems to
have good reviews and about the only decent one I can afford.


Fiskateer #2358
Posted: 6/19/2012 9:02:30 AM

Just want to wish you good luck

I've been scanning DH's old family photos. There are lots of helpful hints here. They
have been taking FOREVER.


scrapcreator
Posted: 6/19/2012 9:36:12 AM

This is a fabulous thread, chock full of valuable informative posts. I need to save it so
that I can refer back to it.

Thank you so much for sharing!

I am hoping to scan some of mom's photos this summer.

I know I should know this but I don't - why .tiff and not .jpeg? I want to do this right
and I don't think I've ever saved anything as a .tiff. Help!

Thanks,
Jeanne


WingNut
Posted: 6/19/2012 11:01:47 AM

A great subject to start Lefty!!!

Like you I've had battles with the PSE organizer and simply refuse to ever try again.
ACDsee wasn't any better. I prefer to organize and tag using folders and the file info
direction on the photo file as previously mentioned.

I don't has many photos but I need to do a project like this too. If anyone has a good
source for Lighroom tutorials (written or video), please share. I bought the software last
year and I'm so confused. Which is annoying because I've been using PSE for 10 years
or so!

Joy


Mariah2
Posted: 6/19/2012 11:10:21 AM


I would never use a combo printer/scanner for scanning negatives and slides. Never. I
don't want to be rescanning later to get better quality.

I liked your idea about copying and pasting one small area into a new file in order to
work on damage. My Mac can handle really huge files of course but this is still a good
idea.

I don't know how PSE works as well as regular PhotoShop, but if I make layers in a file I
prefer to flatten my images rather than keep layers.


Mariah2
Posted: 6/19/2012 11:17:32 AM

I'm scanning my files for myself so I use Mom and me and nicknames, and Grandma
and Grandpa in the file name. A finding aid is a good idea if you are creating a digital
archive for others to access. However IF I was doing that I would not put the info in the
file names, as I described above. Absolutely not.

One project I am working on is providing a digital archive of my pictures of my Greek
org from college for the college archivist. Our Greek org has some historical significance.

Anyway, for him, for the archives, rather than doing the file naming thing I talked about
above (which I use for me since I actually USE my files) I will name files by number.

A finding aid would then be a cross reference, usually (as Carol suggested) in an Excel
spreadsheet. Many libraries and archives use special software for this, which I am
familiar with and also use. I don't recommend it for just regular folks.

A finding aid can be complex or simple - it is used in archives and is just a record of
what exists inside a larger collection. So I will create an Excel spreadsheet with each
photo image in numerical order, with dates and full names of who is in them. Then you
don't need to worry about nicknames.

For me, personally, in my personal archives, I don't need to go to this trouble.


leftturnonly
Posted: 6/19/2012 11:19:28 AM

Wingnut, I've never tried them, but someone here recommended lynda.com a couple of
weeks ago, and the classes available seem to cover every available subject. I can't wait
to have enough time to take some!

Here's the direct link to their Lightroom courses.


Mariah2
Posted: 6/19/2012 11:21:25 AM


I would never advocate a regular person use a specific piece of software for organizing
photo files. The issues of migration are too difficult. I want my photos to be accessible.

Software creates a level of difficulty that is, IMO, not a good idea.

For libraries, museums and archives, it is different. Staff changes, they hire people with
graduate degrees who know the software, and they invest money over long periods into
digital collections. There are also national standards that professionals all learn so there
is a common base of knowledge -- therefore software is no barrier to access.

There's a reason why I insist on this point. Bc I have been thru it. More than once.


tiagirl
Posted: 6/19/2012 11:21:41 AM

The reason you save a file as .tiff instead of .jpeg is because it is a not a lossy format.

With jpegs, every time you make changes and save it, the file deteriorates. But with a
tiff file you can save it many times and it never deteriorates because it does not
compress the file like a jpeg. The only drawback is that it is much larger. So you can
keep your original scan as tiff, make all the changes you want and save your final file as
jpeg. If you want to change what you did you can always go back to the original tiff.

As for scanners, I used a Canon 4200F, which I have had for years and it got a workout
with all the photos, slides and negatives! It still works fine but unfortunately Windows 7
doesn't recognize it properly so I cannot use it through the regular program I had for it.

I can still use it through ACDSee Photo Manager.
ACDSee is a photo organizer that I use as well. You can import photos and scan with it. I
also make photo CDs and DVDs plus slide shows with it.

When I scanned the photos, I always put on as many as would fit on the flatbed and
then hit the Multiple Scan button. It would separate the photos into individual files and
then I would name each of them. Much better than doing them one at a time.

I also have about 7 external hard drives, all for my photos. They are mostly duplicates
of each other so that I am not just relying on one hard drive. I usually get the little
portable ones that are 1 or 1.2 TB. They are only 4.5 by 3 inches big and I wait until
they are on sale. I have 4 sitting on my desk right now.

Another thing that I copied were old home movies that my father took. They were Super
8mm. I took them in to the Henry's Camera store and had them save it to one of my
portable hard drives as .avi files, instead of making it into a movie DVD. That way I can
edit them any way I want and then make my own DVD.

I also have a audio cassette interviews with my grandmother, parents and in-laws about
their growing up years. I used Audacity to record it onto my computer and turned them
into mp3 files. I also transcribed them so I have a written account. I have a VHS tape of
my grandfather being interviewed on TV and I am using PowerDirector 8 to tape it from
my VHS player to my computer and making a .avi or mp2 file out of it.

Through my genealogy research, I have been able to contact distant (previously
unknown) relatives and we have been able to share old photos over the internet. I have
received some awesome photos. One person and I found we each had a group photo
taken in the 1920s of his family and mine but they were taken minutes apart. One man
was at one end of the photo in mine but in the middle for his copy. We have also helped
each other out in identifying everyone in this photo.

You can probably tell that I just love these old photos and family memory keepsakes. It
is just so worth the effort. I hope my boys appreciate it down the road. They are not too
interested right now.

Karen


Mariah2
Posted: 6/19/2012 11:24:54 AM


I TRY TO HOLD BACK! Usually. But hey she really wanted to know!

That's why I think there is a need for my business idea. There are other people scanning
out there but after doing a lot of research I have concluded most do not have the
knowledge I do, and even if they do, no guarantee they know how to explain it to people
in a way that is usable.

I had 4 friends my age die last year. FOUR. And when we were sharing photos of them,
guess what? Only the most recent 5-10 years of photos were available.

Except from me. I had all my photos scanned. All labelled correctly. All were shared
immediately with loved ones.


leftturnonly
Posted: 6/19/2012 11:28:18 AM


Tiff files are higher quality than jpeg files. They're larger (MUCH larger) and contain
much more inforamtion, but less info than raw files.

JPEG's are compressed file formats. By design, some quality is sacrificed to make them
smaller. Opening and closing these files continues to degrade the information.

I try to save photos in a photoshop format AND then flatten the layers and save in a
jpeg format. I organize them on Microsoft Explorer (easy peasy) but I can't view .psd
files there. Not really a problem, since I need jpegs to print or upload right now anyway.

TIFF's don't sacrifice content when an image is saved. That's why they're such bigger
files.


Mariah2
Posted: 6/19/2012 11:29:32 AM


I would absolutely recommend this scanner.


Mariah2
Posted: 6/19/2012 11:35:38 AM

TIFF vs JPG --

A JPG is a compressed file. Now your naked eye might not notice how it is compressing
the data but compressing it, it is. The great thing about using JPGs for photos is
specifically that the file can compress data (to make is smaller) without the eye noticing
the loss.

To a point. Save and resave enough times and the image starts to deteriorate.

TIFF is generally not compressed. It holds all the data, whether your eye can see it or
not.

I learned to use TIFFs bc I worked in publishing. JPGs cannot go on a press. They must
be TIFF files. Then I went to library school and studied digital libraries. Again, they must
be TIFFs.

Most cameras make only JPG files so you are getting those up front. You can resave
them as TIFFs if you want.

I think the main issue is, are you creating a file for just now, just the next few years? Or
do you want future, better, more high speed computer technology to be able to access
the data?

TIFFs are archival preservation standard files, and that is why I use them for myself.
However if someone wants to hire me to scan as JPGs I can do that too.


Mariah2
Posted: 6/19/2012 11:42:46 AM

More info on Finding Aids from the Library of Congress

Finding Aids

What is EAD? It's the metadata standard used in archival records. We were talking about
tagging, giving people names, file naming,e tc. All of that is METADATA

Metadata is "data about data". Your photo file is a piece of data. Any tags or naming or
associated info is metadata.

There are numerous metadata standards maintained and documented by LOC and EAD
is used in archives specifically.

Metadata is like a language and there are numerous languages -- MODS, METS, ONIX,
VRA, TEI and so on.

You don't have to worry about it unless you are trying to search a collection. So Carol
mentioned her own "metadata" standard and language that she has developed for
herself and her use. To search her "collection" you have to know her language, and have
her self-created vocabulary lists.

When you create your own format for tagging and labelling your photos, the more
consistent you can be, the easier it is for another person to "get" your language.

Now I am getting beyond just helping answer some questions and truly into library
geekworld.

Personally my work uses MARC for metadata and I also know ONIX real well. FYI ONIX is
the metadata standard used to make Amazon work. It is used primarily by publishing
companies.


leftturnonly
Posted: 6/19/2012 11:44:07 AM


My husband died last year. Another family member, another father, died this year. There
have been quite a few other deaths from that generation already in this immediate
family.

My kids and a whole bunch of their cousins are in their 20's and are without 1 or both
parents. One was only 5 when she lost both, and last year, she lost the grandmother
that raised her.

Time's a tickin' here.

Most of my photos, naturally, are photos. I've taken them. I have the negatives, I have
the originals, and for the most part, I'm the only one that's ever seen them or has
access to them.


leftturnonly
Posted: 6/19/2012 11:50:16 AM


Cool with me.

I have to leave now, but I'll be back later, so don't think I'm not still interested........
MARC and ONIX..... I don't know what they are. Are they programs or languages? And
do they write directly into the Metadata?


peasful1
Posted: 6/19/2012 11:55:50 AM

LIghtroom is non-destructive, unlike Photoshop. Any changes I make to a photo in LR
doesn't actually *do* anything to the photo until I export the photo from LR and even
then the photo can still be reverted back in one click. Photoshop takes the image and
then makes unalterable changes unless you also save every photo with every layer of
changes.

I would definitely recommend LR. You can quickly upload photos into it and tag them
with whatever keywords you want. "Paul" "Beach" "1967". So then in the future you
could search 1967 or Paul or beach and that photo would come up in that search.

Then you can highlight all those photos and export into a folder and there'd you have all
photos with Paul/beach/1967 in them.


leftturnonly
Posted: 6/19/2012 12:03:40 PM

I didn't know Lightroom was non-destructive.

But....... aren't you still tagging with the software? Meaning that only the same software
can recognize the tags?


Mariah2
Posted: 6/19/2012 12:03:50 PM


They are "languages." Metadata is shared in a sort of language, and different
"languages" have different rules, different names, are used for different kinds of
collections. EAD is for archives. VRA is usually art museums, and so on.

I was mentioning them bc the Library of Congress page on Finding Aids I linked to talks
about EAD, another language.

Metadata itself is usually stored and shared using XML, a computer markup language.
Librarians love acronyms. Non librarians get a headache from all the acronyms.

MARC is... it stands for Machine Readable Cataloging. It is the base standard that all
librarians must know. (some better than others)


peano
Posted: 6/19/2012 12:17:33 PM


IMO, it is definitely worth the upgrade. LR4's editing capabilities have been dramatically
improved.


leftturnonly
Posted: 6/19/2012 12:22:06 PM

Egads. I just counted. 10 kids in their 20's with a parental death, 4 more with parental
loss through divorce.

Together, these kids have 8 kids without at least one grandparent.


Mariah2
Posted: 6/19/2012 3:15:00 PM

I don't know about Lightroom. I know that I have added some tags to some photos
using Adobe Bridge and when I search for File Cnntents (not just name) anything with
that tag comes up. I will have to see if this is true on other computers - have not tried.


katiepotatie
Posted: 1/14/2013 12:56:53 PM

So thankful someone requested this thread today! I started this project about 15 years
ago when I acquired ALL my grandmother's photos. They've been labeled and organized
for years. I've scanned many, but not all. This was the motivation I needed to get going
again. GREAT information here!! Thanks, ladies!!


stefdesign
Posted: 1/14/2013 2:25:55 PM

As I was reading thru this thread, I noticed that someone posted that they were not able
to scan their odd-sized negatives because the negative holder only works on standard
(usually 35mm) negs. I have scanned dozens of oversized negatives and transparencies,
just by lying them on my flatbed, using the slide/ negative settings. I might lie a heavy
book on the cover to make sure they don't curl, but it works just fine.


leftturnonly
Posted: 1/14/2013 2:43:31 PM

Well this was a surprise to see!

I did go on to get the negative scanner and scanned a lot over a summer break. I need
to get back to doing more, and this is a great reminder.

Mariah! I didn't recognize your latest avatar! I've thought about this thread many times
over the past several months. You really helped me out.


SuPeaNatural
Posted: 1/14/2013 5:12:19 PM

Thanks Lefty for starting this thread, and thanks to everyone for this very valueable
info, I've learned a lot.

ETA: Ooops, again I didn't look at the thread date and only just noticed it's from last
year. But I'm so glad it was brought back, it's helped me heaps.

question - I didn't know about saving in tiff, so have saved all my digital photos in jpeg -
what should I do? Can I convert them to tiff? Most are high res like 1950 x 2590.

Thanks again everyone for this great info.


sweetshabbyroses
Posted: 1/14/2013 5:40:17 PM

I am loving this thread, learning so much!! How do I save this information to refer to
later?


leftturnonly
Posted: 1/14/2013 6:12:56 PM


At the top right corner of the page, just under the title, there is a button with REPLY
written on it. Click on the little arrow next to that, and you'll get a drop menu where you
can bookmark the thread.