Deleted
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Oct 7, 2024 5:25:22 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2015 12:05:07 GMT
I'm only 18 minutes in...it does the book justice so far...back to update later.It was good, not sure if I loved it. If you were worried about the sex scenes between Jamie and Randall, they have showed the first one at the 15 minute mark.
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finaledition
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,896
Jun 26, 2014 0:30:34 GMT
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Post by finaledition on May 30, 2015 14:29:17 GMT
Saw it last night and posted on the other thread. Kept my response vague since most won't see till tonight.
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Post by Kymberlee on May 31, 2015 11:52:09 GMT
I'm not sure how I liked it last night. As a book reader, I can't help but get kind of pissy about how they cut out so many important things in the finale. I know that condensing how ever many pages into one hour was going to be impossible, but I can't help but think that they should have given more time to Jamie and Claire and how she was able to help him heal. To me, the writers didn't give the Claire/Jamie scene when she "confronted" (is that the right word?) enough weight. I missed the relationship between Father Anslem and Claire. I guess I'm sorta irritated that the writers spent as much time on The Search as they did on the season finale.
That at being said, the acting was fantastic. The terrible rapes scenes were awful and uncomfortable but so, so good. I liked how they ended the season, too. Nice way to transition to France. Maybe a non book reader can weigh in?
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back to *pea*ality
Pearl Clutcher
Not my circus, not my monkeys ~refugee pea #59
Posts: 3,149
Jun 25, 2014 19:51:11 GMT
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Post by back to *pea*ality on May 31, 2015 12:33:37 GMT
Non- book reader here. I have enjoyed both seasons, in particular the cinematography. I've always been interested in the concept of time travel. One of my favorite reads was "Timeline" by Michael Crichton. I tried reading the first "Outlander" but could not get into it. Perhaps it is Diana Galbadon's writing stle that was a turnoff for me. She spends a lot of time on detail which moves the plot along at a snail's pace. I think the screen writers don't have that luxury so the television version appeals to me over the books.
The sexual violence is disturbing. It seems to be abundant in TV today, Game of Thrones comes to mind.
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finaledition
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,896
Jun 26, 2014 0:30:34 GMT
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Post by finaledition on May 31, 2015 15:17:50 GMT
Kymberlee I agree somewhat. I think they did a good job with the time they had. I suppose the angus and Rupert scenes weren't that necessary to moving the storyline forward, However they were absolutely necessary to lighten the story immensely and it was a such a wonderful transitional moment. I also had a problem with the father Anselem scene where Claire confesses and that's it. She's told to pray about it. In the context of last night's story, either elaborate a bit more or cut that out. I wish that could have been a 90 minutes episode. I'm sure so much was filmed it's not like it would have been more in production costs. And this line from the episode-“If you take away the one last thing that makes sense to me, then I will die, with you, right here and now”-gutted me. Hands down best line of the season. My husband is a non book reader and after watching Wentworth and me giving him an idea of what was to come, he decided not too watch last night. That doesn't mean he will not continue to watch, but knowing that what he was about to see was likely not going to be just referenced, but brutally real, that was just not something he wanted to watch. I'm a Game of Thrones watcher as well and I think comparing the shows in all aspects is comparing apples to oranges. The mental anguish expressed by Jamie never would have been dealt with on GoT. Outlander didn't just show a rape. It showed the after effects as well. I've now watched this episode twice and I don't think I'll watch it again (unless I do a marathon watch before season 2). It was excellent, no doubt, but I don't feel the need to see the scenes between jamie and BJR again. Now episodes like Rent and the Wedding? You can bet I'll watch those over and over.
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Post by karen on May 31, 2015 15:18:04 GMT
Non book reader here- I thought he was mentally and emotionally wrecked, then at the end he seemed fine. It seemed like was all of a sudden ok, which didn't seem right.
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finaledition
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,896
Jun 26, 2014 0:30:34 GMT
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Post by finaledition on May 31, 2015 15:25:44 GMT
Non book reader here- I thought he was mentally and emotionally wrecked, then at the end he seemed fine. It seemed like was all of a sudden ok, which didn't seem right. When Jamie responded to Claire saying she was pregnant "are you happy", he did say that he didn't think he would ever say that word again. In a Ron Moore interview, he said that they would not be coming back to the rape scene. I think he said it would be referenced, but unlike the flogging scenes that were shown throughout the season, they would not be flashing back to that moment. They were moving on with a new storyline.
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MsKnit
Pearl Clutcher
RefuPea #1406
Posts: 2,648
Jun 26, 2014 19:06:42 GMT
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Post by MsKnit on May 31, 2015 15:31:52 GMT
Non book reader here- I thought he was mentally and emotionally wrecked, then at the end he seemed fine. It seemed like was all of a sudden ok, which didn't seem right. I haven't watched it yet. But, that's the problem with going from book to screen. Father Anselm had gained her trust, which was why she confided in him. That would have taken a lot of screen time. Same with Jamie's emotional turmoil. How do you convey that on the screen?
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Post by cakediva on May 31, 2015 15:32:13 GMT
I'm not sure how I liked it last night. As a book reader, I can't help but get kind of pissy about how they cut out so many important things in the finale. I know that condensing how ever many pages into one hour was going to be impossible, but I can't help but think that they should have given more time to Jamie and Claire and how she was able to help him heal. To me, the writers didn't give the Claire/Jamie scene when she "confronted" (is that the right word?) enough weight. I missed the relationship between Father Anslem and Claire. I guess I'm sorta irritated that the writers spent as much time on The Search as they did on the season finale. That at being said, the acting was fantastic. The terrible rapes scenes were awful and uncomfortable but so, so good. I liked how they ended the season, too. Nice way to transition to France. Maybe a non book reader can weigh in? Did you read this post by Diana? (not sure if this fb link will work directly) A Few words from the authorShe said we need to put the book down.....she says a lot more - it is worth the read. And it has me knowing I just can't "but that isn't how it goes" for the episode....I haven't watched yet, it airs tonight here in Canada.
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Post by chaosisapony on May 31, 2015 15:57:20 GMT
It was good, but felt very rushed.
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Post by Kymberlee on May 31, 2015 17:29:15 GMT
Non book reader here- I thought he was mentally and emotionally wrecked, then at the end he seemed fine. It seemed like was all of a sudden ok, which didn't seem right. That is exactly what I mean about taking some more time with the aftermath of the prison. I don't think Jamie's road back to Claire was portrayed very well in the show. I *know* the production crew is dealing with a very short time period, but I think this was a really, really important piece of the story that was sorta glossed over. Since I know how the story unfolds, I can live with it but I am concerned that the non book reader will be like...meh, that was kinda lame. Sam Heughan was so spectacular and portrayed such great emotion in the episode, and I thought it was just very flat at the end. Does that make sense? cakediva, I did read the post by DG, but I can't unread the book, KWIM? I can live without a lot of the things from the book that were too difficult or time consuming to put on screen, but there are some things that I just feel needed to be given some more time. I still love the show, and will rewatch every single episode probably a dozen times before the next season starts.
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Post by chaosisapony on May 31, 2015 19:30:03 GMT
Non book reader here- I thought he was mentally and emotionally wrecked, then at the end he seemed fine. It seemed like was all of a sudden ok, which didn't seem right. That is exactly what I mean about taking some more time with the aftermath of the prison. I don't think Jamie's road back to Claire was portrayed very well in the show. I *know* the production crew is dealing with a very short time period, but I think this was a really, really important piece of the story that was sorta glossed over. Since I know how the story unfolds, I can live with it but I am concerned that the non book reader will be like...meh, that was kinda lame. Sam Heughan was so spectacular and portrayed such great emotion in the episode, and I thought it was just very flat at the end. Does that make sense? Glossed over, exactly. I think it would have been better to end the episode with Jamie coming to Claire in the wagon. Then next season to pick up with his mental and physical healing. It would make more sense that way and the gravity of what happened could be fully dealt with.
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Post by birukitty on May 31, 2015 21:57:45 GMT
Kymberlee I agree somewhat. I think they did a good job with the time they had. I suppose the angus and Rupert scenes weren't that necessary to moving the storyline forward, However they were absolutely necessary to lighten the story immensely and it was a such a wonderful transitional moment. I also had a problem with the father Anselem scene where Claire confesses and that's it. She's told to pray about it. In the context of last night's story, either elaborate a bit more or cut that out. I wish that could have been a 90 minutes episode. I'm sure so much was filmed it's not like it would have been more in production costs. And this line from the episode-“If you take away the one last thing that makes sense to me, then I will die, with you, right here and now”-gutted me. Hands down best line of the season. My husband is a non book reader and after watching Wentworth and me giving him an idea of what was to come, he decided not too watch last night. That doesn't mean he will not continue to watch, but knowing that what he was about to see was likely not going to be just referenced, but brutally real, that was just not something he wanted to watch. I'm a Game of Thrones watcher as well and I think comparing the shows in all aspects is comparing apples to oranges. The mental anguish expressed by Jamie never would have been dealt with on GoT. Outlander didn't just show a rape. It showed the after effects as well. I've now watched this episode twice and I don't think I'll watch it again (unless I do a marathon watch before season 2). It was excellent, no doubt, but I don't feel the need to see the scenes between jamie and BJR again. Now episodes like Rent and the Wedding? You can bet I'll watch those over and over. Totally agree with what's written above. I thought the first 3/4 of the episode was brilliant. Superb acting by the actors playing both Jamie and BJR, everything was done exceedingly well to show us the anguish of the torture and not only the physical pain Jamie was suffering, but also the emotional pain. Where I think I felt very shortchanged as a viewer was the part where Jamie gets to the abbey and after Claire sets his hand. Yes, it should have been at least a 90 minute episode. Rushing through that (I don't even mind missing the hot springs, I can see how that would have been difficult to find) made it seem like it only took Claire 10 minutes to convince Jamie that Yes, she loved him no matter what and Jamie was healed. Then they were on the ship and oh, yeah by the way I'm pregnant. Much, much too rushed and it just didn't work for me. I know it's an adaptation, and I know it's not going to be the same as the book. Okay, I get that. But to me, (the healing of Jamie) was an incredibly crucial part of the story line and to rush it like that-it just didn't ring true. I also hated the way Claire told Jamie she was pregnant. Why not tell him when he was lying there ready to die? He needed something to live for. She could have said, "You do need to live, because I'm carrying your child, and your child needs a father". I bet that would have turned him around real fast. Why wait and tell him on the ship-since they were leaving out the hot springs part anyway? It's been awhile since I read the book. When does she tell him in the book? Debbie in MD.
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finaledition
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,896
Jun 26, 2014 0:30:34 GMT
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Post by finaledition on May 31, 2015 22:26:51 GMT
Debbie-it's one of the last sentences of the book.
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QueenoftheSloths
Drama Llama
Member Since January 2004, 2,698 forum posts PeaNut Number: 122614 PeaBoard Title: StuckOnPeas
Posts: 5,955
Jun 26, 2014 0:29:24 GMT
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Post by QueenoftheSloths on May 31, 2015 22:30:09 GMT
The violence on this show is getting to be a bit much for me. And this is coming from a rabid Game of Thrones fan.
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Post by birukitty on May 31, 2015 22:43:22 GMT
Thanks Finaledition. Guess it's time to pull the book out and go over that part Debbie in MD.
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Post by cindyupnorth on May 31, 2015 23:00:12 GMT
Just finished watching. IDK. I'm torn. While I think they spent WAY too much time, and a whole episode on The Search, I think they could have used some of that time here. I agree that they went to Jamie being better too fast. BUT I am glad they didn't spend the whole show on the flashbacks to the abuse, that would have been too much. Overall I like what they did.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 7, 2024 5:25:22 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2015 23:53:14 GMT
My husband is a non book reader, and his reaction at the end was exactly this:
If Murtagh hadn't said "someone has to step into the darkness with him," my DH said he would have never thought that was what the oil of lavender scene was about.
Me, as a book reader, I was relying on what I instinctively knew about the characters and was filling it in as the story progressed. So I didn't notice the absence in the moment, but I agree in hindsight that it was rushed. In fact, the last half of the season felt rushed, especially given in the first part they made time to invent a sick kid that she healed and incorporated a wool wauking scene from DIA and then that whole made up thing about the Watch to kidnap Jamie and the duel for the Duke of Sandringham, and that scene with Frank searching for her at the end of episode 8. If they'd just cut out all of that, they could have rearranged the sequence to give more weight to the emotional story here at the end.
Again, it's not that I think they have to be slavish to the story -- I was fine with the way they organized the info at the witch trial rather than making us wait a couple of weeks to get Geilles' story and I don't mind that they went to the abbey in Scotland before sailing. I don't mind that they left out some things. But I do think the love story of the emotional aspect was sacrificed in this final episode (which I've now seen twice).
But yah, the rape and torture scenes were heartwrenching. Excellent, dark acting. In the big picture, I give this series a big thumbs up, but there are individual building blocks that I disagree with.
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Post by lily on Jun 1, 2015 1:02:03 GMT
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Post by scraphappyinjax on Jun 1, 2015 1:25:55 GMT
I don't know how to hide my response so tell me how you want the answer?
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Post by blarneygirl on Jun 1, 2015 2:27:05 GMT
I'm new to Outlander and binge watched everything in the last 2.5 weeks or so. I have to say, last night's episode left me a little empty. I feel like everything was on fast forward and I just needed more. It just didn't feel as tho it was in keeping with prior episodes.
I have downloaded the first book in the series so I can catch up on everything I have been missing!
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Post by jillonthehill on Jun 1, 2015 2:44:24 GMT
I agree with everyone about how they glossed over Jaime coming out the of the darkness. But I do have to say that the actors made the most of what they were given for that scene. Jamie's reaction to Claire saying she will die too was such a heartbreaking moment. He wanted to touch her but couldn't. And he was so hesitant with the embrace at the end of the scene. The look in his eyes was haunting. I'm still moved by it.
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Post by nitad on Jun 1, 2015 7:51:59 GMT
I am a huge Outlander book fan and I have been pretty happy with the series but felt incredibly disappointed with this episode. This should have been about Jamie and Claire and showing how deeply connected they are and to what extent they will both go to save each other. We could have had less of the graphic BJR scenes and more of, what I feel at least, the story is about - which is Jamie and Claire.
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Post by Kymberlee on Jun 1, 2015 10:23:04 GMT
I am a huge Outlander book fan and I have been pretty happy with the series but felt incredibly disappointed with this episode. This should have been about Jamie and Claire and showing how deeply connected they are and to what extent they will both go to save each other. We could have had less of the graphic BJR scenes and more of, what I feel at least, the story is about - which is Jamie and Claire. Exactly!!! We all know what a twisted f*ck BJR is so some of those scenes could have been shortened or cut and focused more on J&C and his coming to terms with his injuries (physically and mentally). Although, seeing the prison scenes brings it home to how truly terrible Jamie's abuse was which gives more weight to the time with Claire at the abbey. The fact that we didn't get to spend much time with them at the abbey disappoints me a lot. This episode definitely needed more time. I think that the TV show should be able to stand alone and non readers should be able to understand what is happening and why without the background knowledge from the book. I also had to explain some things to my DH as we watched. I think that is the biggest downfall to this episode. I guess I want everone to love this series as much as I do, and it is hard if the viewers feel a little short changed.
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Post by cakediva on Jun 1, 2015 12:11:05 GMT
It seems that way, and in the books you are lead to believe that. But he shows up in France in book 2.....
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finaledition
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,896
Jun 26, 2014 0:30:34 GMT
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Post by finaledition on Jun 1, 2015 16:17:30 GMT
I'm listening to the Scot and the Sassenach podcast and I think they are bringing up a good point. They say that this episode had two roles to fulfill-that of the 16th episode and that of the season finale. So initially I stated I was satisfied with epi 16, but mine was from the the season finale point of view. I was happy to see the ending that we saw (I whined previously about hoping it wouldn't be a cliff hanger)and was happy to see it finished with the book. But on the other hand, when I deconstruct this episode, it does fall short. To me, the shortness could only have been remedied with more time.
Last week, I posted about how Diana said she got 90% of what she wanted. I can't help but think that the other 10% fell during that recovery period. And while she did ask us not to compare, there was a huge contingency of people asking if the hot spring scene would be in the episode. I think the book readers knew that scene really solidified Claire and Jamie coming together and turning the corner on healing. It was way more than just a sex scene, it was an emotional connection that brought the two back together and made the readers confident that they would be ok. Just my 2 cents.
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Post by duchess on Jun 1, 2015 16:19:41 GMT
From some of the things I've read from Ron Moore and Diana G. that they will still show Jaimie struggling with what happened to him. Maybe I'm a simpleton, but I thought they did it just right. My husband never read the books but watched the show. I told him I was going to re-watch the episode (because I watched it the first time on my ipad which kept blacking out the picture but still had the audio the first time around) and he said he will not be able to watch that episode again. He loved the whole series though and now wants to read the books. Another friend of mine also watched the show but never read the books and she was just as impressed with the show too.
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Post by Basket1lady on Jun 1, 2015 16:27:53 GMT
I thought this episode was well done. The acting was incredible and spot on. I felt the agony in the cell, and when Claire was trying to convince Jamie to live. It was incredibly well done. I knew there would be some things left out, but I deliberately did not reread the book over the hiatus. Diana had said that she was happy with the adaptation and I trusted her to know they would do it justice.
It could be that they will show more of Jamie's recovery in Season 2. Or maybe they just hoped that viewers would get enough with Episode 16. It's a TV show, not a documentary, and I'm trying to keep that in mind and just let the show happen. Now if Diana jumped ship with her books, I'd be mad. But this is TV!
Having said that, Claire's big news of the pregnancy isn't the happy fairy tale viewers will want. I was sad to see it end with that, because I know what is to come. So that is what disappointed me! I don't want to say more and spoil it for the non book people.
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Post by genny on Jun 1, 2015 18:18:09 GMT
My husband is a non book reader, and his reaction at the end was exactly this: If Murtagh hadn't said "someone has to step into the darkness with him," my DH said he would have never thought that was what the oil of lavender scene was about. Me, as a book reader, I was relying on what I instinctively knew about the characters and was filling it in as the story progressed. So I didn't notice the absence in the moment, but I agree in hindsight that it was rushed. In fact, the last half of the season felt rushed, especially given in the first part they made time to invent a sick kid that she healed and incorporated a wool wauking scene from DIA and then that whole made up thing about the Watch to kidnap Jamie and the duel for the Duke of Sandringham, and that scene with Frank searching for her at the end of episode 8. If they'd just cut out all of that, they could have rearranged the sequence to give more weight to the emotional story here at the end. Again, it's not that I think they have to be slavish to the story -- I was fine with the way they organized the info at the witch trial rather than making us wait a couple of weeks to get Geilles' story and I don't mind that they went to the abbey in Scotland before sailing. I don't mind that they left out some things. But I do think the love story of the emotional aspect was sacrificed in this final episode (which I've now seen twice). But yah, the rape and torture scenes were heartwrenching. Excellent, dark acting. In the big picture, I give this series a big thumbs up, but there are individual building blocks that I disagree with. This exactly. Perfectly said. DH couldn't watch anymore of the flashbacks after the first one, it was too much for him. He changed the channel as soon as they'd flash back to the prison again, then flip every few minutes until it was over. The acting in this episode was incredible. I can see why Sam Heughan said he had to go hiking alone for a few days (and get drunk) after they were done filming. It had to take an emotional toll. I truly hope they see the whole series through and it continues to be renewed each season, I think they've done a fabulous job. I am excited to see how DIA plays out, the way it starts in the '60s - 20 years after Claire's return could get tricky I think. Agh. Hate that we have to wait til next spring to know!!
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