Deleted
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Oct 7, 2024 1:21:07 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2015 22:48:04 GMT
www.reuters.com/article/2015/06/01/us-usa-court-scarf-idUSKBN0OH2NW20150601Now I realize religion is protected in both Canada and the US and we are free to practice it the way we want to practice it. I have to say I am siding with the A&F here. I am a Muslimah (Muslim woman) who doesn't wear a hijab except when I got to mosque and at this point it will probably be never for a while anyway. I work in the same industry as A&F and my boss would have a fit if I wore a hijab to work and I guarantee she would find a reason to get rid of me if I started wanting to wear one. A&F is a brand. They may be asshats but they are still a brand. If they don't want their models (their staff) wearing head coverings, so be it. This lawsuit is, in my mind, stupid. I am sure there will be people in my community who will disagree with me, but honestly, she has taken this too far. If she wants to be hijabi (a hijab wearing woman) all the power to her. We are not compelled to do so. This is North America NOT North Africa and she should look for a job where wearing a hijab is acceptable. I worked in a dental office in high school every day for a few hours. It was a great job. I could have easily worn one there. There are lots of mall jobs she could do wearing a hijab. Working for Guess, A&F or Talbot's or American Eagle might not be one of them. Will she demand that she should be able to wear an abaya, too because it's proper Muslim attire and protects her modesty?
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Post by nurseypants on Jun 1, 2015 22:50:23 GMT
Fortunately the Supreme Court of AMERICA does not agree.
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Post by moveablefeast on Jun 1, 2015 22:51:54 GMT
I'm glad I found a job where being a woman is acceptable.
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Deleted
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Oct 7, 2024 1:21:07 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2015 22:53:17 GMT
Thing is, hear me out, ok? If she is that conservative, why would she work around men to begin with? Why would she work around men who are scantily clad? What is she going to do about wearing their clothes when they show off her body which also should be covered? She can't have it both ways is what I am getting at.
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Post by SwissArmyBeth on Jun 1, 2015 22:57:03 GMT
The job was at Abercrombie Kids, so no scantily clad men...
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 7, 2024 1:21:07 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2015 22:57:17 GMT
I'm glad I found a job where being a woman is acceptable. She is still a woman not wearing a hijab. Our "nicer" mall has tons of stores that she could work at. There is a mall in Vancouver that has even more stores than we have that she could work at, just maybe not a trendy store like A&F. |
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Post by moveablefeast on Jun 1, 2015 22:59:31 GMT
I'm glad I found a job where being a woman is acceptable. She is still a woman not wearing a hijab. Our "nicer" mall has tons of stores that she could work at. There is a mall in Vancouver that has even more stores than we have that she could work at, just maybe not a trendy store like A&F. Sorry, I may have made my point too compact. You said she should find a job where a hijab is acceptable. I compared that form of religious discrimination to sex discrimination against women. Many jobs were once considered unacceptable for women. I am glad I don't live in that place and time anymore. |
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Nink
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,955 
Location: North Idaho
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Post by Nink on Jun 1, 2015 23:05:45 GMT
There are a lot of things that are likely to keep me from ever shopping at A&F and a woman wearing a hijab is nowhere on my list. I think she should have every right to do so.
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Post by seikashaven on Jun 1, 2015 23:08:58 GMT
She should absolutely be able to wear her hijab. The only time I agree that religious attire not be permitted at work are in matters of safety (for instance a beard preventing proper sealing of a face mask etc).
I'm surprised that you wouldn't support your religious community considering how much discrimination they often face. We don't tell Sikh's not to bother wearing their turbans because they're not in India anymore.
I think it's dangerous to deny rights to people simply because what's important to them isn't important to you.
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Post by hop2 on Jun 1, 2015 23:10:39 GMT
I can't see any reason why she shouldn't/couldn't wear a hijab at A&F kids or A&F for that matter.
They should join the 21st century.
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Post by jumperhop on Jun 1, 2015 23:23:50 GMT
Makes me sad. Many religions have sacred things they wear. I am a Mormon and wear a garmet under my clothing that remind me of my devotion to God. I have respect for people of other religions symbolisms and devotion to God.
I would never want to work at a place that wouldn't be in line with my standards.
Jen
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Post by laureljean on Jun 1, 2015 23:51:10 GMT
I still can't figure out why she would want to work there. It seems to me that the "values" that A&F subscribe to do not fit with her religious principles. What am I missing?
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Deleted
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Oct 7, 2024 1:21:07 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2015 0:02:29 GMT
I still can't figure out why she would want to work there. It seems to me that the "values" that A&F subscribe to do not fit with her religious principles. What am I missing? ^^^That! |
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Post by JBeans on Jun 2, 2015 0:09:42 GMT
I'm glad she won. There are a lot of young ladies I've seen around here wearing a hijab in retail. This is clearly discrimination.
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Nanner
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,987
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Post by Nanner on Jun 2, 2015 1:19:26 GMT
I also think she should have the right to wear it. And the right decision was made.
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anniebygaslight
Drama Llama
I'd love a cup of tea. #1966
Posts: 7,402
Location: Third Rock from the sun.
Jun 28, 2014 14:08:19 GMT
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Post by anniebygaslight on Jun 2, 2015 4:14:18 GMT
Elannah's comments confirm my suspicions that her claims to be a Muslim are a load of rubbish.
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Post by scraphollie27 on Jun 2, 2015 4:31:34 GMT
Luckily we live in a country where our religious dress is to be respected by our employers and we can use the opportunity, when shopping at A&F kids, to respectfully teach our children about religious and cultural differences.
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LeaP
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,939
Location: Los Angeles, CA where 405 meets 101
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Post by LeaP on Jun 2, 2015 4:57:00 GMT
So now will Abercrombie require only navy blue hijabs? <- kidding!
I read somewhere that at A&F corporate headquarters black clothing is not permitted. Kooky company all around, the aroma makes me crazy but draws my kids like flies.
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Post by alittleintrepid on Jun 2, 2015 5:24:34 GMT
So now will Abercrombie require only navy blue hijabs? <- kidding! I read somewhere that at A&F corporate headquarters black clothing is not permitted. Kooky company all around, the aroma makes me crazy but draws my kids like flies. I know you were joking but I wonder if they could mandate that a certain colour/ style of hijab be worn that is in keeping with the company dress code. Delta Dawn , I think we should all be more upset that a potential employees attractiveness was considered as a hiring criteria. |
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Deleted
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Oct 7, 2024 1:21:07 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2015 5:54:17 GMT
The whole store baffles me. I "think" I saw a store of their's in West Edmonton Mall in circa 1993 with my BF at the time. I am just guessing here. I never went in and all he said was "I like the cords in the window" and we walked away.
If the store goes against what she believes, why would you want to work there? Just to prove a point? Yes, I won and I can wear my hijab nanananana! If Talbot's objected to me wearing blue eyeshadow, even though it was my right to do so, why would I want to work there? If my personal beliefs said I needed to wear blue eyeshadow and it goes against their philosophy I can find a job elsewhere. Surely there have to be other stores than A&F who hire young women.
She wouldn't work at our local pulled pork restaurant (called PIG) for religious reasons as well. If you don't like their philosophy don't apply there. I don't work for JTB. I abhor that company and would never work for them again in a million years. Sure I speak Japanese and it might be an obvious fit, but their business practices are disgusting and I won't buy into them. I don't work in tourism. I am told year after year (since I was about 18) I should work in tourism seeing how I speak languages. I don't, though. I hated working as a tour guide and don't want to do that again. EVER! The same with teaching ESL...I did that and would not do it again.
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Post by pmk on Jun 2, 2015 6:06:12 GMT
I think the problem for you is less about her rights and more about the fact that you can't understand why she would want to work there. She has decided it is a company she would want to work for and applied for a job. Discrimination is wrong and the court has confirmed that - why not call out the company for a very obvious act of discrimination?
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Post by cade387 on Jun 2, 2015 9:44:48 GMT
So how would this affect a place like Hooters or Tilted Kilt? They obviously have a dress code right?
On the flip side, if she she had her head covered in the interview, why would they not know?
I interviewed for a job that would entail a lot of travel with the military (not in it but with a contractor for defense development). The retired officer interviewing me had an HR person with him to 'help'him with questions.
He asked me "do you have kids?" And the HR guy corrected him and said, "you can't ask that, you can only ask do you have a reason that would prevent you traveling 90% of the time". It continued on like that for many questions. I don't like the idea of discrimination, but don't some places have an actual uniform and a company can generically say, "if you apply to work here you acknowledge this is the uniform and you are required to follow it?" Or is that what the SCOTUS just made illegal?
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Post by Bitchy Rich on Jun 2, 2015 12:39:01 GMT
The whole store baffles me. I "think" I saw a store of their's in West Edmonton Mall in circa 1993 with my BF at the time. I am just guessing here. I never went in and all he said was "I like the cords in the window" and we walked away. That's a great story. |
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Post by monklady123 on Jun 2, 2015 13:04:42 GMT
I don't know anything about Abercrombie and Fitch so I don't know about their "philosophy" or business practices or anything. So why wouldn't a Muslim want to work there? Personally I think a business can set their own dress code, as long as it doesn't prohibit something that's being worn for a religious reason. Unless it's a safety issue like someone said above. I remember at once hospital where I worked (a Catholic hospital) there were a bunch of men from the seminary who were doing practicums in pastoral care. One was some type of religious brother whose order traditionally wears sandals (I forget which one it was). He was not allowed to wear them in the hospital because of their "closed toe shoes" rule, which is for safety. So a business can say "no short skirts" or "no spaghetti straps" for their employees because no one wears those for religious reasons (at least not to my knowledge  ). |
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Post by cade387 on Jun 2, 2015 13:11:55 GMT
But they don't wear the shorts at Hooters for safety reasons. Just sayin'
I'm not a fan of Hooters, wouldn't care if they closed at all, but does this mean they would have to hire a Catholic with everything covered because dressing indecently is against the Catholic faith?
I'm not saying the SCOTUS is wrong or that I don't agree with the ruling. I just never really thought about it. I just figured that hey, Hooters girls dress a certain way and are expected to look a certain way, if I don't want to look that way I wouldn't bother to apply. Now a kids store would be different I would think, but where is the line drawn now? I'm confused?
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Post by eebud on Jun 2, 2015 13:19:23 GMT
So how would this affect a place like Hooters or Tilted Kilt? They obviously have a dress code right? On the flip side, if she she had her head covered in the interview, why would they not know?I interviewed for a job that would entail a lot of travel with the military (not in it but with a contractor for defense development). The retired officer interviewing me had an HR person with him to 'help'him with questions. He asked me "do you have kids?" And the HR guy corrected him and said, "you can't ask that, you can only ask do you have a reason that would prevent you traveling 90% of the time". It continued on like that for many questions. I don't like the idea of discrimination, but don't some places have an actual uniform and a company can generically say, "if you apply to work here you acknowledge this is the uniform and you are required to follow it?" Or is that what the SCOTUS just made illegal? They did know. That is how the lawsuit was started. From the article: What I am curious of is how she knew she was rejected due to the "look policy". Do they have an actual box on their interview notes that the interviewer checks? That is pretty stupid if they do. If I am reading the article directly, it sounds like she didn't specifically ask for a religious accommodation so A&F says they can still fight the discrimination charge. It will go back to a lower court and they have to argue that it would cause an undue hardship on the company. I am not sure how they could win that. |
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LeaP
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,939
Location: Los Angeles, CA where 405 meets 101
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Post by LeaP on Jun 2, 2015 15:36:56 GMT
The whole store baffles me. I "think" I saw a store of their's in West Edmonton Mall in circa 1993 with my BF at the time. I am just guessing here. I never went in and all he said was "I like the cords in the window" and we walked away. If the store goes against what she believes, why would you want to work there? Just to prove a point? Yes, I won and I can wear my hijab nanananana! If Talbot's objected to me wearing blue eyeshadow, even though it was my right to do so, why would I want to work there? If my personal beliefs said I needed to wear blue eyeshadow and it goes against their philosophy I can find a job elsewhere. Surely there have to be other stores than A&F who hire young women. If you are really curious about Abercrombie, you can visit the one in Bellingham. It is in the mall attached to Target. Canada south  Insofar as why would she want to work there, just because she wears a hijab doesn't mean she isn't a teen and into the same silliness as other teens. Women wear all sorts of trendy stuff under a burka. There are multiple locations of Victoria's Secret in Saudi Arabia. |
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pyccku
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,817
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Post by pyccku on Jun 2, 2015 18:17:57 GMT
I don't get the whole A&F allure. I'm in Paris this week and taking a walk down the Champs-Elysees, A&F has some location - not sure if it's a store or just an office, since it's a huge gate with lots of gold on it and a sign that says A&F. Crazy people stopping and posing to take pictures in front of it. I'm thinking - if you're American, how is this something to take a photo by? Really, don't you have an actual A&F store in the US, instead of just some gate? And why would you take a picture there? Yet crowds and crowds of people gathering around to take their selfie in front of it.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Jun 2, 2015 18:33:32 GMT
I don't get the whole A&F allure. I'm in Paris this week and taking a walk down the Champs-Elysees, A&F has some location - not sure if it's a store or just an office, since it's a huge gate with lots of gold on it and a sign that says A&F. Crazy people stopping and posing to take pictures in front of it. I'm thinking - if you're American, how is this something to take a photo by? Really, don't you have an actual A&F store in the US, instead of just some gate? And why would you take a picture there? Yet crowds and crowds of people gathering around to take their selfie in front of it. I just Googled, and apparently that IS an Abercrombie & Fitch store inside the gates and inside that beautiful building. The photos of it on the TripAdvisor website are gorgeous- I'd be tempted to take a photo or two of it myself. ETA: this is a quote from one of the reviews: "the premises are an old consulate or embassy. The stone tree lined path that led away from the Champs-Élysées would certainly be worthy of such a venue." |
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Dalai Mama
Drama Llama
La Pea Boheme
Posts: 6,985
Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on Jun 2, 2015 18:47:08 GMT
www.reuters.com/article/2015/06/01/us-usa-court-scarf-idUSKBN0OH2NW20150601Now I realize religion is protected in both Canada and the US and we are free to practice it the way we want to practice it. I have to say I am siding with the A&F here. I am a Muslimah (Muslim woman) who doesn't wear a hijab except when I got to mosque and at this point it will probably be never for a while anyway. I work in the same industry as A&F and my boss would have a fit if I wore a hijab to work and I guarantee she would find a reason to get rid of me if I started wanting to wear one. A&F is a brand. They may be asshats but they are still a brand. If they don't want their models (their staff) wearing head coverings, so be it. This lawsuit is, in my mind, stupid. I am sure there will be people in my community who will disagree with me, but honestly, she has taken this too far. If she wants to be hijabi (a hijab wearing woman) all the power to her. We are not compelled to do so. This is North America NOT North Africa and she should look for a job where wearing a hijab is acceptable. I worked in a dental office in high school every day for a few hours. It was a great job. I could have easily worn one there. There are lots of mall jobs she could do wearing a hijab. Working for Guess, A&F or Talbot's or American Eagle might not be one of them. Will she demand that she should be able to wear an abaya, too because it's proper Muslim attire and protects her modesty? I disagree with pretty much everything you've written here. If you don't want to wear a hijab at your work, that is your choice. If, however, you choose to wear one, that is a right that is protected by our Charter - a right that isn't affected by the type of retail establishment at which you work. |
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Refupea #1142
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