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Post by shescrafty on Jun 3, 2015 14:38:39 GMT
Warning this is long. I am throwing this out there and hoping you can help me (and my DH) with the next step. my DS is 13. He is a good kid, plays baseball, does tae kwon do, and sails. He is a lead trombone in his band, in the jazz band, and on the honor roll.
our issue-lying and electronic usage. Over a year ago we found out that over a period of 3 months he had charged $700 on iTunes on apps-adding lives, buying tokens, dumb stuff. He lost his itouch and all video games and had to work off the $700 by doing extra chores. Each hour of extras led to $7 off since that was minimum wage. We wanted him to really understand what $700 meant. The time that he did this was when my FIL who he was very close to was dying. The bulk of the money was spent the 3 days leading up to his death when he was going to other houses since we were at the hospital all the time.
he has repeatedly had an issue with sneaking the itouch out of the drawer where we keep it before that, and had lost it whenever we found that he had snuck it. Other times he has snuck my old itouch out of the kitchen where we keep it for music, and I have also found that he snuck his sister's into his room at night. This has happened roughly 10-15 times since he got his itouch almost three years ago. And that is only 10-15 times we caught him-he admitted he took them and hid them much more.
Yesterday morning I came out and saw my phone had 1% power and I had a notification froma "sniper 3D" game that I had more lives. I knew I had never put a game like that on there, so I confronted him. For a long while he denied it, and then finally admitted he had my phone and had hidden the game in the "extras" section for over a month.
Last night I went to the grocery store and he was supposed to finish a science worksheet. When I came home he said it was done, but this morning I found it incomplete in his bookshelf.
I just really don't know what to do. Seriously I have talked and yelled until I am blue in the face. We have taken things away but I feel like all I do is give punishments and he does not seem to care or change his behavior.
Has anybody had success with changing horribly sneaky behavior with their kids? I am just at a loss.
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freebird
Drama Llama
'cause I'm free as a bird now
Posts: 6,927
Jun 25, 2014 20:06:48 GMT
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Post by freebird on Jun 3, 2015 14:45:40 GMT
I think this is beyond kids lying. It sounds like he has an uncontrolled addiction. I'm really sorry.
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Post by mikklynn on Jun 3, 2015 14:48:34 GMT
I think this has reached a level that calls for professional help. I'd look for a counselor/therapist that specializes in teens.
We had an issue with DS and anger management. I called our medical insurance hotline for help in locating a resource.
Hugs, Mom. Parenting is hard.
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gloryjoy
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,332
Jun 26, 2014 12:35:32 GMT
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Post by gloryjoy on Jun 3, 2015 14:54:29 GMT
I agree, it sounds like something that he can't control. I think I would want to seek some professional help, now while he is still young and you have some control.
This isn't just one or two times of buying stuff, this is over $700 worth, and that is a lot!
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Gravity
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,233
Jun 27, 2014 0:29:55 GMT
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Post by Gravity on Jun 3, 2015 15:04:58 GMT
He needs to lose his I-touch for a very long time until he is mature enough to responsibly use it. Buy a lock box and lock it up. If he uses anyone else's without permission, it needs swift and severe consequences.
Unlink your debit or credit card from your ITunes account. Only use iTunes cards so he cannot run up his bill for more $ than he has available.
To prevent future charge on all of your Apple devices, got to "settings," " general," "restrictions." Turn off the in-app purchases, then passcode lock the restrictions. You can also turn off the iTunes Store and the ability to install or delete apps without the passcode.
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Post by Pahina722 on Jun 3, 2015 15:06:00 GMT
I agree with previous posters: this problem is more than being "sneaky." It appears to be an addiction, one that he is willing to ruin relationships and eventually the rest of his life for. (He's spending $700 on downloads and playing instead of doing homework? That's compulsive!) given the timing of the apparent beginning of this addiction, his behavior might be rooted in grief over his grandfather's death. Get him help now.
And short term, you might consider becoming a "touch"-free house. Lock ALL iTouch, iPad, iPod--anything on which he can access and/or play his games--away from everyone. Also, change your iTunes password to some gibberish, lock that away, and don't save it on any device just in case he does find a device.
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Post by kristi on Jun 3, 2015 15:11:33 GMT
He has shown that he is unable to control himself. Remove his access.
-Lock up the electronics -Turn off wifi -Set restrictions so he cannot purchase things without a password -block sites
I would also give him consequences for his actions. If he cannot be trusted at home to do his homework, then he would be going with me.
Check into therapy.
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Post by myshelly on Jun 3, 2015 15:12:58 GMT
I, too, think this is an addiction issue.
You can't fix the lying and sneaking until you treat the addiction.
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valleyview
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,816
Jun 27, 2014 18:41:26 GMT
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Post by valleyview on Jun 3, 2015 15:13:50 GMT
Sorry to say that I agree that this looks more like addictive behavior than lying.
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Post by ~Tracy~ on Jun 3, 2015 15:16:32 GMT
Change the passcode and he doesn't have access at home. I think the issue goes much deeper though, and a consult with a therapist might be in order for addictive personality traits. I have a 13yo DS and this behavior seems over-the-top a bit.
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Post by freecharlie on Jun 3, 2015 15:19:52 GMT
Changel the WiFi password. Everyone is responsible for logging out. Lock anything that has data with a passxode.
Then find him someone to talk to
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Post by bc2ca on Jun 3, 2015 15:21:49 GMT
It sounds more like an obssesive compulsive behaviour rather than being defiant and likely started as a way to cope with the emotional time around his grandfather's illness/death and grieving. I'd get professional help. {{{hugs}}}
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peppermintpatty
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Refupea #1345
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Jun 26, 2014 17:47:08 GMT
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Post by peppermintpatty on Jun 3, 2015 15:28:51 GMT
Not only does he need to lose the devices, you need to set up a parent control on the wifi in your house. He would have to come to you for you to put the password into his device and then he can use it. When he should be done with it, you disable the wifi again. Friends of mine turned it off after 10 each night.
If he has a phone then that is harder to control. You could also possibly lock down his device so he can't play those games. How did he spend all that money without you knowing about as it was happening? I have text notifications for every.single.charge to Itunes and my credit cards.
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peppermintpatty
Pearl Clutcher
Refupea #1345
Posts: 3,947
Jun 26, 2014 17:47:08 GMT
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Post by peppermintpatty on Jun 3, 2015 15:29:30 GMT
It sounds more like an obssesive compulsive behaviour rather than being defiant and likely started as a way to cope with the emotional time around his grandfather's illness/death and grieving. I'd get professional help. {{{hugs}}} While this sounds reasonable, I doubt that is what it is. These kids love these games and become obsessed with them.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 6, 2024 21:24:48 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2015 15:34:56 GMT
Have you asked him why he has taken them? What is his answer?
I have to agree - he gets a new phone that can only call in and out. All other electronics get passcodes on them and are in your room at night. Your daughter may feel punished by that, but no kid needs their phone in the middle of the night.
And address the addiction.
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Post by shescrafty on Jun 3, 2015 16:05:57 GMT
We did not have all the restrictions that we should have when we got the itouch-that was rectified but after the fact. We took off our credit card and we thought we had changed our password so not even free games could be downloaded. That will be fixed. All itouch stuff will be kept in our room overnight. As of now he does not sneak in our room-that is where his itouch has been kept and it has not been used.
It turns out he did have another copy of his science paper that he found, so at least he did finish it and turn that in. The problem with lying so much from him is that all the time I suspect anything I jump to him lying. A natural reponse I guess, but it sucks none the less.
His phone is only for calls and texts, no wifi or games.
I will be calling his pediatrician who helped us find a clinic when we had him tested for ADD. I did speak to him before about the lying and $700 and our consequences, and he agreed with how we handled it. Last night after he was home and got yelled at (not a good parenting moment at all-but I am seriously losing it with him) he broke down and talked about what was going on at school. We have tried talking to him about friends, how he was feeling, etc during calm moments, but nothing ever came of it-lots of "everything is fine" answers. Last night he told us about someone who used to be his best friend and he not getting along-his friend telling him to go die in hole like the piece of s that he is, etc. it ALL came out and we talked a lot. He told us that when he sneaks and does that it is often when he is having a Problem with friends. We let him know that he can always talk to us, talked about some coping strategies, and his friendships in middle school. There seems to be more going on and we will need to get him some help.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 6, 2024 21:24:48 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2015 16:12:55 GMT
I'll just echo what others have said about this seeming to be more than just lying. I'm glad that you were able to have a productive conversation with him.
The issues of excessive electronic use, lying and trust do need to be addressed, but all I will say is that middle school can be brutal. We only have 12 more days to go and I am counting the minutes.
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Post by Susie_Homemaker on Jun 3, 2015 16:29:39 GMT
You need to not only put the devices in your room but that need to be in something that is locked as well. There are small safes or lockboxes that you can get. I'd do that just so he's less tempted to even think about sneaking in your room to get them. I would *assume* based on past behavior that he *will* try to sneak them again and I"d make it as hard as possible for him. Don't just leave them in your room, I think that temptation is too much. You'll be doing him a favor by doing that.
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Post by 950nancy on Jun 3, 2015 16:40:43 GMT
Kids do really stupid things. Period. I have no idea if he has an addiction. Kids also will do stupid things if they think they can get it past their parents. Understanding consequences is the final thing the brain finally forms (about 21-22 years old). Don't beat yourself up. Make these electronics impossible to get a hold of and get him to see someone about his behavior. The constant sneaking sounds like a kid who thinks he is smarter than his parents. I have seen that behavior a lot with kids as young as 8. Good luck. Remember you are helping him grow up.
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bethany102399
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,623
Oct 11, 2014 3:17:29 GMT
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Post by bethany102399 on Jun 3, 2015 16:45:12 GMT
You need to physically lock this stuff up. like in a small safe, in your room. I agree with a PP, he will go into your room and try to find these things again.
I would also see if you can find a counselor, sounds like he's going through something much larger. I am so dreading middle school which is coming up fast.
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Post by shescrafty on Jun 3, 2015 16:46:25 GMT
Kids do really stupid things. Period. I have no idea if he has an addiction. Kids also will do stupid things if they think they can get it past their parents. Understanding consequences is the final thing the brain finally forms (about 21-22 years old). Don't beat yourself up. Make these electronics impossible to get a hold of and get him to see someone about his behavior. The constant sneaking sounds like a kid who thinks he is smarter than his parents. I have seen that behavior a lot with kids as young as 8. Good luck. Remember you are helping him grow up. Thank you all for your comments. We are really trying to help him grow up-that resonates with me and something I need to remember. I know teens can be sneaky, I know I was. But we also did not have access to as much as kids do now. I need to keep remembering through all of this that I am helping him, even if it doesn't always seem to be working.
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Post by 950nancy on Jun 3, 2015 16:52:26 GMT
Kids do really stupid things. Period. I have no idea if he has an addiction. Kids also will do stupid things if they think they can get it past their parents. Understanding consequences is the final thing the brain finally forms (about 21-22 years old). Don't beat yourself up. Make these electronics impossible to get a hold of and get him to see someone about his behavior. The constant sneaking sounds like a kid who thinks he is smarter than his parents. I have seen that behavior a lot with kids as young as 8. Good luck. Remember you are helping him grow up. Thank you all for your comments. We are really trying to help him grow up-that resonates with me and something I need to remember. I know teens can be sneaky, I know I was. But we also did not have access to as much as kids do now. I need to keep remembering through all of this that I am helping him, even if it doesn't always seem to be working. My oldest, who was a great kiddo UNTIL he turned 17, got sneaky too. I watched him turn into a lying young man for a year. He did get it together and now is back to his old self. But UGH that year was rough on all of us.
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Post by christine58 on Jun 3, 2015 17:14:33 GMT
I, too, think this is an addiction issue. You can't fix the lying and sneaking until you treat the addiction. And until then change the password to your wifi. Take every electronic away. Find a counselor also.
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Post by snappinsami on Jun 3, 2015 18:06:40 GMT
To prevent future charge on all of your Apple devices, got to "settings," " general," "restrictions." Turn off the in-app purchases, then passcode lock the restrictions. You can also turn off the iTunes Store and the ability to install or delete apps without the passcode. That's exactly what I was going to say. Every device should have a passcode that he doesn't know and can't guess, and they should all have the in-app purchased turned off. That will eliminate his even being able to gain access on the devices. As for the lying and/or addiction problems, I would probably look for a therapist to have him see. It would definitely appear that he has some serious issues with both of those things, and could benefit from professional (and more objective) help.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Jun 3, 2015 18:08:06 GMT
I definitely fall into the don't give them an opportunity camp with my kids and electronics. EVERYONE's device is plugged in to charge before bed. The charging station is a location that would be impossible to sneak before we go to bed (which is several hours after the kids). I am an incredibly light sleeper, and would hear them if they tried to sneak them later. If I had any doubt I would put it in my bedroom. My kids know that if when I go to bed the device isn't where it's supposed to be, it's gone for a week. My son struggles with moderation and electronics as well. I've found that being very, very specific about consequences and following through has helped. He knows that I'm serious when I say he won't see the ipod again for a month if he does xyz. We had a little issue with priorities regarding electronics and school work and his computer's power cord disappeared until the gravity of the situation sunk in. We've never enabled in game purchases and would highly suggest disabling that functionality and removing your credit card from your accounts. We had heard horror stories about kids not really understanding the costs of what they were buying.
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Post by shescrafty on Jun 3, 2015 19:13:04 GMT
I definitely fall into the don't give them an opportunity camp with my kids and electronics. EVERYONE's device is plugged in to charge before bed. The charging station is a location that would be impossible to sneak before we go to bed (which is several hours after the kids). I am an incredibly light sleeper, and would hear them if they tried to sneak them later. If I had any doubt I would put it in my bedroom. My kids know that if when I go to bed the device isn't where it's supposed to be, it's gone for a week. My son struggles with moderation and electronics as well. I've found that being very, very specific about consequences and following through has helped. He knows that I'm serious when I say he won't see the ipod again for a month if he does xyz. We had a little issue with priorities regarding electronics and school work and his computer's power cord disappeared until the gravity of the situation sunk in. We've never enabled in game purchases and would highly suggest disabling that functionality and removing your credit card from your accounts. We had heard horror stories about kids not really understanding the costs of what they were buying. After the first incident of the money we disabled in-app purchases and removed our card from the iTunes account. Lesson learned. we will be keeping all the devices in my room at night from now on. We had kept his in here and not had a problem, but I did not think he was going to go on my phone when we were sleeping and do something like put a game on mine. It never dawned on me at all. Another sad lesson learned.
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Post by mikklynn on Jun 3, 2015 19:33:37 GMT
We did not have all the restrictions that we should have when we got the itouch-that was rectified but after the fact. We took off our credit card and we thought we had changed our password so not even free games could be downloaded. That will be fixed. All itouch stuff will be kept in our room overnight. As of now he does not sneak in our room-that is where his itouch has been kept and it has not been used. It turns out he did have another copy of his science paper that he found, so at least he did finish it and turn that in. The problem with lying so much from him is that all the time I suspect anything I jump to him lying. A natural reponse I guess, but it sucks none the less. His phone is only for calls and texts, no wifi or games. I will be calling his pediatrician who helped us find a clinic when we had him tested for ADD. I did speak to him before about the lying and $700 and our consequences, and he agreed with how we handled it. Last night after he was home and got yelled at (not a good parenting moment at all-but I am seriously losing it with him) he broke down and talked about what was going on at school. We have tried talking to him about friends, how he was feeling, etc during calm moments, but nothing ever came of it-lots of "everything is fine" answers. Last night he told us about someone who used to be his best friend and he not getting along-his friend telling him to go die in hole like the piece of s that he is, etc. it ALL came out and we talked a lot. He told us that when he sneaks and does that it is often when he is having a Problem with friends. We let him know that he can always talk to us, talked about some coping strategies, and his friendships in middle school. There seems to be more going on and we will need to get him some help. Aw, this breaks my heart. These are such difficult years for kids. I'm so glad he finally opened up about the issues with friends and school.
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tiffanytwisted
Pearl Clutcher
you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave
Posts: 4,538
Jun 26, 2014 15:57:39 GMT
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Post by tiffanytwisted on Jun 3, 2015 22:58:03 GMT
Agreed. These early teen years can be the worst. Nothing feels worse than having someone you thought was your friend turn on you. I can see how easy it is to lose yourself in the electronic world (TV does it for me!) so you don't have to deal w/all the real life crap that's going on around you. Hopefully the counselor will help him work thru all that in addition to helping him w/controlling his need to play games all the time.
Sounds like you're doing a great job so far - hang in there, Mom!
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Post by ametallichick on Jun 4, 2015 5:36:27 GMT
He needs to lose his I-touch for a very long time until he is mature enough to responsibly use it. Buy a lock box and lock it up. If he uses anyone else's without permission, it needs swift and severe consequences. Unlink your debit or credit card from your ITunes account. Only use iTunes cards so he cannot run up his bill for more $ than he has available. To prevent future charge on all of your Apple devices, got to "settings," " general," "restrictions." Turn off the in-app purchases, then passcode lock the restrictions. You can also turn off the iTunes Store and the ability to install or delete apps without the passcode. 100%
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Post by betty on Jun 4, 2015 5:56:40 GMT
First remove your credit cards from all of his accounts. ITunes, Xbox, etc. to prevent future sneaking. I did this the first time when my kid clicked on a $12.99 add-on and I immediately got a message. I tried to reverse it immediatley with the video game compny and no luck. END of CC use for ds.
Amazingly he still has a full, enjoyable online life without my cc supporting it. He can buy it with Itunes gift cards or go without.
Hopefully you can get to the root of what is causing his behaviour and it will get better. Hang in there!
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