tiffanytwisted
Pearl Clutcher
you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave
Posts: 4,538
Jun 26, 2014 15:57:39 GMT
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Post by tiffanytwisted on Jun 4, 2015 17:03:44 GMT
. . . and is it lying if you don't?
Let me elaborate. My sister K and her husband (who have no kids) just got back from a vacation at an island resort. They came back midway thru their trip because my brother-in-law was sick (food poisoning, virus, no one knows what it was). While they were packing, K emailed our other sister, N, to have her pick them up at the airport. They got home fine, he's feeling a little better, so all is well.
In talking to K today, it somehow came up that my 8 yr. old niece (N's daughter) knows what went on. I said I didn't see why she was even told as the whole thing had no bearing on her life. If my brother-in-law had ended up in the hospital or something, then fine, but I didn't see the need to tell her about him getting sick, the vacation ending early, her father picking them up at the airport, etc. My sister said that if she hadn't been told, it was like lying. The conversation was actually more detailed, but I don't want to bore anyone, so that's the gist. I disagreed. Not only do I not think they need to know everything, I don't think not telling them certain things is lying.
So do you think it's lying?
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Post by kellybelly77 on Jun 4, 2015 17:07:44 GMT
I don't think it's lying but in my family everyone knows everything. By the time we would have landed at the airport the whole family would have known including the kids. I don't think telling the kid is that big of a deal, but I don't think it's lying to not tell her either. javascript:openSpellCheck();
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Post by mikklynn on Jun 4, 2015 17:07:58 GMT
I would not have made a point to tell my kids. It wasn't anything that affected them.
And, no, I did not tell my kids everything. I still don't! It's not lying.
For example, when my great-uncle committed suicide, I certainly did not tell my then 8 & 9 year old children. I have still never told them. What point would there be?
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craftykitten
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,304
Jun 26, 2014 7:39:32 GMT
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Post by craftykitten on Jun 4, 2015 17:08:40 GMT
Well, yes. Why on earth wouldn't you tell them what happened?
Absolutely there are times when you have to moderate what you say, or present it in a way that children can understand. But I don't believe you should deliberately mislead.
In this case - it sounds like the child is aware because it was her mother who picked the couple up. So to me, it is reasonable that she knows WHY that happened.
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valincal
Drama Llama
Southern Alberta
Posts: 5,768
Jun 27, 2014 2:21:22 GMT
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Post by valincal on Jun 4, 2015 17:08:50 GMT
I wouldn't 't like to put unnecessary worry on my kids, especially when they were young. I don't consider it "lying". Maybe N needed to tell her DD why she was headed to the airport? In that case I don't think it's a big deal to say that uncle wasn't feeling well.
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scrappert
Prolific Pea
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Location: Milwaukee, WI area
Jul 11, 2014 21:20:09 GMT
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Post by scrappert on Jun 4, 2015 17:10:26 GMT
No, not lying at all. If niece was to ask why they were home and I did not tell her why, that could be viewed as lying.
I agree, kids do not need to know everything.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 6, 2024 19:25:17 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2015 17:11:20 GMT
If I had to go to the airport to pick up a family member on a day that hadn't previously been planned, yeah, I'd probably tell my son, because he'd ask why I was going to the airport. "Oh, X & Y were supposed to come home in a few days, but Y got sick and they have to come home early, so I'm picking them up." I don't see the problem. It's not like it's some terribly embarrassing secret. And yes, I probably would have to lie to my son (who is 7 and has endless questions) to avoid telling him why I was picking someone up unexpectedly from the airport, because he would ask questions. I would feel badly about that because there is literally NO reason to lie about something like this.
There are other things, that are bigger deals, that my son does not know the truth - either by omission or by outright lies. He knows my biological father is dead, but he doesn't know it was suicide nor does he know the circumstances leading up to it and the kind of things my father did in the last years of his life. DS is way too young to know the whole story and frankly, I haven't decided how much of it I *ever* want to tell him. I don't feel bad about lying and omitting information in this case, because there are endless justifiable reasons that make it the right thing to do.
Those are two totally opposite ends of the spectrum and there is a lot of grey area in between.
Not a particularly black and white issue, in my opinion.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 6, 2024 19:25:17 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2015 17:11:42 GMT
I think omission CAN be a lie. But not always. And I don't see why an 8 year old needs to know what went on. OTOH, I don't see it wrong for the 8 year old to know either.
Depending on the developmental needs of an individual child the parents may need to be aware of not "keeping secrets" from their dd if they are having issues with her keeping secrets from them. An adult may understand the nuances of what and when to omit information; an 8 year old doesn't yet.
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Post by Flowergirl on Jun 4, 2015 17:12:35 GMT
In that particular situation, I don't see what the big deal about telling the girl is. She might just have been wondering where her mom was if she wasn't home at a time he normally would be.
Now, if parent/uncle/aunt/grandparents/significant person in kid's life etc are having serious health/marital/financial issues, I wouldn't burden my younger kids with it until it became something that needed to be addressed. I don't consider that lying. I would probably talk with my teens about it much sooner than that though.
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Grom Pea
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Jun 27, 2014 0:21:07 GMT
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Post by Grom Pea on Jun 4, 2015 17:12:42 GMT
No I don't think it's lying, lying would be telling her something that didn't happen to cover up what did. I guess if the niece asked out of concern her mom could have told her they weren't feeling well, but if she didn't ask I don't see the need to go through a play by play. I think there are some things a child is not ready to know yet, but it's not lying, eg a coworker of dh put money away for her two sons while they were growing up and I presume they knew about it. The moment one kid turned 18 or 19 he gave his mom the middle finger and said he didn't need her anymore because he had 100k (or some high number like that). That type of info I think would have been wise to hold off on telling him until he was a little more mature... Well in that case she probably should have set up a trust so she could control the money but you see what I mean, I don't feel he was mature enough to know about the money and I don't feel it would have been lying to wait to tell him until he could properly understand and maturely use the money.
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Deleted
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Oct 6, 2024 19:25:17 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2015 17:22:06 GMT
In your situation, I don't see the big deal that your niece knew that her Uncle had got sick and came home early. Plus, it was her mom who picked them up from the airport. To answer your question, I do not tell my kids everything. I'm a firm believer it's none of their business to know all of my business.
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LeaP
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Jun 26, 2014 23:17:22 GMT
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Post by LeaP on Jun 4, 2015 17:22:28 GMT
If I had to go to the airport to pick up a family member on a day that hadn't previously been planned, yeah, I'd probably tell my son, because he'd ask why I was going to the airport. "Oh, X & Y were supposed to come home in a few days, but Y got sick and they have to come home early, so I'm picking them up." I don't see the problem. It's not like it's some terribly embarrassing secret. And yes, I probably would have to lie to my son (who is 7 and has endless questions) to avoid telling him why I was picking someone up unexpectedly from the airport, because he would ask questions. I would feel badly about that because there is literally NO reason to lie about something like this. There are other things, that are bigger deals, that my son does not know the truth - either by omission or by outright lies. He knows my biological father is dead, but he doesn't know it was suicide nor does he know the circumstances leading up to it and the kind of things my father did in the last years of his life. DS is way too young to know the whole story and frankly, I haven't decided how much of it I *ever* want to tell him. I don't feel bad about lying and omitting information in this case, because there are endless justifiable reasons that make it the right thing to do. Those are two totally opposite ends of the spectrum and there is a lot of grey area in between. Not a particularly black and white issue, in my opinion. I tell my kids as much as I think they can handle. In this case, of course I would have told them. Why not? In fact, in the case you describe, your niece knew her mom went to the airport so not telling her why might be construed as a lie. On the other hand, there are situations like @busypea describes where not telling is indicated. My kids might be out of the norm, but they are also abnormally interested in epidemic diseases. All the norovirus on cruise news sparks their fevered imaginations. Reading the Hunger Games might have something to do with it. Ebola was a hot topic. If an uncle (they are close to) had Montezuma's revenge they would ask all the gross questions.
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Post by shannoots on Jun 4, 2015 17:43:18 GMT
I'm pretty open with my kids but I don't tell them everything. I would say it depends on the situation and topic. I consider their age and level of maturity. I have a family member that talks about everything in front of their kids and sometimes mine. I have had to ask them to stop before because I didn't feel that my kids needed to know about the topic they were discussing (felt they were too young). I don't consider it lying if I don't tell them.
I don't think the situation that you mentioned was that big of a deal and I would have told my kids.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 6, 2024 19:25:17 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2015 17:46:51 GMT
I think the info your neice was told was so mundane that it wouldn't matter if she knew or not.
I think that's nonsense.
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Post by rainangel on Jun 4, 2015 17:48:39 GMT
I like to include my children in things that are going on with our family. I was always excluded as a child, my parents never told me anything. Not because they were trying to keep things from me, but I guess they never saw the point in telling me everything. I was an adult before I figured out a lot of stuff that explained so much that happened when I was a child. Why we were suddenly rushed to spend the night at my grandparents, why we couldn't go on the vacation we had planned... It just would have been nice to be in the loop and have a proper explanation, instead of feeling like the adults in the family lived one life, and the children lived another.
I don't necessarily think omission is lying, especially to children. If your sister's story had been a little different, say.. your sister had a miscarriage and needed to come home. Then the story is a hell of a lot more personal, and I wouldn't tell my children the details. But someone getting a stomach bug or food poisoning...? Sure, I would tell my kids. Because I like to include the kids in the random stuff that happens in my family, and it might come up in conversation later and your kids would have some context as to why Uncle Bob is making food poisoning jokes to your BIL.
I am a lot more curious as to why you wouldn't want to include your children in what happens in your family? Even if it is trivial stuff?
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back to *pea*ality
Pearl Clutcher
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Posts: 3,149
Jun 25, 2014 19:51:11 GMT
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Post by back to *pea*ality on Jun 4, 2015 18:02:52 GMT
No it is not a lie. I don't think children *need*to know everything. That being said, I don't get what the big deal is about the situation you described.
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Dalai Mama
Drama Llama
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Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on Jun 4, 2015 18:07:43 GMT
There are very few things that I don't talk to my kids about but, no, I don't tell them everything. It never would have occurred to me not to tell them about that situation, however.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Jun 4, 2015 18:17:32 GMT
I don't tell my kids everything, but I do tell them where I'm going. I want them to always, always, tell me where they're going so I always, always, make sure I tell my kids where I'm going too. I think it's common courtesy. This seems like such a trivial thing, I can't imagine why it would be any kind of secret.
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georgiapea
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Jun 27, 2014 18:02:10 GMT
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Post by georgiapea on Jun 4, 2015 18:40:09 GMT
Well, if she hadn't told the child where she was going, and why, what would she have said? If a parent says "I'm going out for a while", doesn't a child usually as where? Would she have said "Oh, it's just to the Mall"? Now that would be lying. I would have said "I'm going to the airport to pick up Uncle Mike and Aunt Patty. They are coming home early because Uncle Mike got sick". Age 8 is certainly old enough to know what's going on in the family.
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mallie
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Posts: 3,253
Jul 3, 2014 18:13:13 GMT
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Post by mallie on Jun 4, 2015 18:42:52 GMT
. . . and is it lying if you don't? Let me elaborate. My sister K and her husband (who have no kids) just got back from a vacation at an island resort. They came back midway thru their trip because my brother-in-law was sick (food poisoning, virus, no one knows what it was). While they were packing, K emailed our other sister, N, to have her pick them up at the airport. They got home fine, he's feeling a little better, so all is well. In talking to K today, it somehow came up that my 8 yr. old niece (N's daughter) knows what went on. I said I didn't see why she was even told as the whole thing had no bearing on her life. If my brother-in-law had ended up in the hospital or something, then fine, but I didn't see the need to tell her about him getting sick, the vacation ending early, her father picking them up at the airport, etc. My sister said that if she hadn't been told, it was like lying. The conversation was actually more detailed, but I don't want to bore anyone, so that's the gist. I disagreed. Not only do I not think they need to know everything, I don't think not telling them certain things is lying. So do you think it's lying? I don't think it's lying to not tell them everything, but I also don't get why you wouldn't tell the kids that story. There is nothing scary or private in that story. Why NOT tell them the story? I don't get why you'd keep it a secret. I also don't think that our conversations with our kids should be strictly on a need to know basis. I mean, I don't NEED to know what my husband or kids do at work every day, but they tell me as part of our daily conversation. They don't NEED to know what I did at work or what I did in the garden today etc, but I tell them as part of daily conversation. If we only told each other what we NEED to know, then we would just be roommates who don't know each other very well. I also told my kids things like that as instructional conversation -- the story serves as an instruction that they may remember later on, "I'm on a trip and I get sick. What should I do?" Problem solving skills are often taught best in story-telling mode.
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Deleted
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Oct 6, 2024 19:25:17 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2015 18:43:26 GMT
I don't see why one wouldn't relate this particular story to an interested 8year old.
But in general, no of course we don't share everything with the children. We are adults. They are not.
And no, it's not lying.
If there was a reason to not share something, just say "that's not any of our business" and move on.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 6, 2024 19:25:17 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2015 18:44:29 GMT
I honestly can't figure out why you think the niece shouldn't have been told. What's the big deal?
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wellway
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Jun 25, 2014 20:50:09 GMT
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Post by wellway on Jun 4, 2015 18:50:39 GMT
In the situation you described I would have told my child what had happened, why won't I? I would consider it a good example to teach her that not everything will pan out the way you want it to. Life can mess up your plans but family will help you out. A good life lesson even if it isn't her life she would have had that experience to draw on in later life. People can be disappointed but life goes on etc etc
Now I don't tell my child everything, I would decide on a case by case basis. But someone being unwell is hardy a state secret.
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freebird
Drama Llama
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Posts: 6,927
Jun 25, 2014 20:06:48 GMT
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Post by freebird on Jun 4, 2015 18:52:58 GMT
Getting your uncle out of jail in Amsterdam? Secret Getting your uncle at the airport because he ate some bad cheese? Not a secret.
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likescarrots
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,879
Aug 16, 2014 17:52:53 GMT
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Post by likescarrots on Jun 4, 2015 18:53:30 GMT
I'm really curious why the OP thinks the kid should not have been told in this situation.
I imagine the conversation went something like this:
Kid: mom where are you going? Mom: aunt and uncle k need to be picked up at the airport. Kid: but i thought they were coming home next week? Mom: they were supposed to, but uncle k got sick.
I can't imagine why that is a big deal?
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Post by cmpeter on Jun 4, 2015 18:57:13 GMT
I don't see why it's a big deal that your niece was told. If she's close with her aunt/uncle it will give her the opportunity to tell them she's sorry about their vacation and hopes her uncle is feeling better.
I also don't think it's lying not to tell her. There are plenty of things we don't tell our kids. However, I make a point to talk to my kids about things going on with our family near and far as I want them to feel connected and involved.
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Post by lancermom on Jun 4, 2015 18:59:22 GMT
My SIL tells her kids everything....everything. So much then 12 year old has anxiety issues. SIL has no boundaries. I have told my friends, other family that if anything happens to the five of us she is not allowed at the hospital. She thinks nothing of going to MD and asking questions and telling them what to do. Heck she has a file on my in laws. Just in case! So I feel only when it has an effect on them, then tell.
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Post by JustCallMeMommy on Jun 4, 2015 19:21:29 GMT
I wouldn't consider that lying, but this is also not something I would consider private. I probably would have told DD what was going on. We tell each other where we are going, and I share family "news." She would want to know her cousin - one of her besties - was headed back early (frankly, she probably would have heard before me).
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mallie
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,253
Jul 3, 2014 18:13:13 GMT
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Post by mallie on Jun 4, 2015 19:22:26 GMT
My SIL tells her kids everything....everything. So much then 12 year old has anxiety issues. SIL has no boundaries. I have told my friends, other family that if anything happens to the five of us she is not allowed at the hospital. She thinks nothing of going to MD and asking questions and telling them what to do. Heck she has a file on my in laws. Just in case! So I feel only when it has an effect on them, then tell. I have an aunt like this. She had a special fixation, however, on stories of childbirth gone badly and would tell her kids these stories from the youngest age. Neither of her kids -- who are married and in their 30s -- have had children nor do they have any intention of having children. I think I know the reason why.
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Post by Really Red on Jun 4, 2015 19:23:40 GMT
I don't see why one wouldn't relate this particular story to an interested 8year old. But in general, no of course we don't share everything with the children. We are adults. They are not. And no, it's not lying. If there was a reason to not share something, just say "that's not any of our business" and move on. exactly this.
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