peppermintpatty
Pearl Clutcher
Refupea #1345
Posts: 3,947 
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Post by peppermintpatty on Jun 5, 2015 11:55:10 GMT
power of attorney trumps it? My friends mom had a massive stroke. Over 50% of her brain is gone. She had an AD to make her comfortable but don't do anything else like a vent. Her husband has power of attorney and because he can't bring himself to turn off the vent, she will stay like that indefinitely. I have an AD but what good is it if my family decides they don't want to honor it?
This just sucks for my friend.
ETA: She passed away.
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gsquaredmom
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,092
Jun 26, 2014 17:43:22 GMT
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Post by gsquaredmom on Jun 5, 2015 14:20:17 GMT
It may take him a few days to come around. This is why some people designate someone else as power of attorney. Someone they know can make the tough choices out of love and compassion. He is in shock right now. The docs and social workers will be discussing this with him. I am sorry for your loss.
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bethany102399
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,623
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Post by bethany102399 on Jun 5, 2015 14:26:53 GMT
I cant' speak from a legal point of view, but as the person who has POT for my mom who also has an advance directive it can be a tough tough road. You're being asked to respect the wishes of the patient over what your own heart wants. It becomes or for me became, a grey area when she went into the hospital with heart issues. They knocked her out to do a heart cath, but the cardiologist wanted to suspend her DNR for the surgery because (in his mind) if something were to happen he would need to shock her to bring her back and the DNR would prevent that. The situation was very remote that it could happen, but he needed her to give permission to rescind the DNR for the purposes of the procedure. She was very irrational and it took both of us to get her to agree. Since it came up, we had the discussion about what she did and didn't want, but I was reminded that there can be so much grey with a procedure that can go wrong, or even something that could be temporary maybe.
I'm so sorry for your friend and her family as clearly this was not what she wanted and how awful for the rest of the family to now struggle with it.
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peppermintpatty
Pearl Clutcher
Refupea #1345
Posts: 3,947
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Post by peppermintpatty on Jun 5, 2015 14:49:12 GMT
Thanks. My heart breaks for her. Her sister is being just as stubborn as her dad. It's all about her and how "she" feels and not thinking about how her mother is now going to live. The father even went to a holistic doctor who claimed to be able to wake her up. Um, not happening. I have told my friend that this is the grieving process and is totally normal. I told her to say her goodbyes and she and her family have. She lives over an hour away and cannot drive due to medical issues so she has no plans on coming up regularly to see her mom in hospice care. I told her eventually they will let her go in peace but it has to be on their terms. Sadly, hers are not the same.
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Post by nurseypants on Jun 5, 2015 14:51:32 GMT
I believe if another family member legally challenges the person who is holding the POA, the patient's wishes have a better chance of being honored.
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melissa
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,912
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Post by melissa on Jun 5, 2015 15:04:08 GMT
I am so sorry. As another poster said, he will likely come around once the shock wears off.
Also, one of the most important parts of an advanced directive is the person you designate to make decisions for you when you cannot. My mother put my sister down for that because I said I would need to know there was no chance of recovery. I would likely hold off a decision to remove a vent in a situation like this, depending on exactly what parts of the brain where damaged. I also understand that there is a great deal of swelling in a situation like this and it will take time to know exactly what the extent of the damage truly is.
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peppermintpatty
Pearl Clutcher
Refupea #1345
Posts: 3,947
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Post by peppermintpatty on Jun 5, 2015 15:13:57 GMT
I am so sorry. As another poster said, he will likely come around once the shock wears off. Also, one of the most important parts of an advanced directive is the person you designate to make decisions for you when you cannot. My mother put my sister down for that because I said I would need to know there was no chance of recovery. I would likely hold off a decision to remove a vent in a situation like this, depending on exactly what parts of the brain where damaged. I also understand that there is a great deal of swelling in a situation like this and it will take time to know exactly what the extent of the damage truly is. MRI confirmed over 50% of her brain is gone. Even my friend saw the MRI and with no medical knowledge could tell that there is no hope at all. |
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gsquaredmom
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,092
Jun 26, 2014 17:43:22 GMT
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Post by gsquaredmom on Jun 5, 2015 16:12:11 GMT
I am so sorry. As another poster said, he will likely come around once the shock wears off. Also, one of the most important parts of an advanced directive is the person you designate to make decisions for you when you cannot. My mother put my sister down for that because I said I would need to know there was no chance of recovery. I would likely hold off a decision to remove a vent in a situation like this, depending on exactly what parts of the brain where damaged. I also understand that there is a great deal of swelling in a situation like this and it will take time to know exactly what the extent of the damage truly is. MRI confirmed over 50% of her brain is gone. Even my friend saw the MRI and with no medical knowledge could tell that there is no hope at all. And it will take time for this reality to sink in. They are holding out hope even when the patient would not desire it. It is difficult to be the one to make the final decision. Some people really cannot handle it well and feel guilty. This is where hospital and hospice workers will help. Your friend was ready to accept the message. They are not there yet. Eta you posted the update at the same time. I am sorry for your and her family's loss. |
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Post by pb on Jun 5, 2015 16:18:35 GMT
I am sorry for your loss.
This is why my mom choose me over her person or my brother. Oregon requires two deciders and she choose a family friend whose instructions are to back me up.
Both my dad and brother are ok with this.
We have had many discussions which also help.
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Post by kelbel827 on Jun 5, 2015 18:35:43 GMT
My family made me POA because I make educated decisions. My sister, on the other hand, picked my brother because he doesn't know anything and will just do what the doctors suggest.
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Mary Kay Lady
Pearl Clutcher
PeaNut 367,913 Refupea number 1,638
Posts: 3,082
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Post by Mary Kay Lady on Jun 5, 2015 18:48:57 GMT
I'm so sorry for your loss. Situations like this are heartbreaking.
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Post by katiekaty on Jun 5, 2015 22:38:43 GMT
Advanced directives are an legal documentation of what you want to happen should not be able to make the decisions for yourself. DNR is a legal document that says don not resuscitate. Both can be overridden by the person who hold power of attorney. Usually the POA follows the advanced determination of the patient, but occasionally the feel as though they are making the decision although the decision was already premade for them, so as not to put them in that position. A lot of times I seen it just phrased so wrong to the POA, such as "Do you want to stop the life support or vent?" instead of "She had and AD, which means she wouldn't have wanted to be on the vent, shall we follow her wishes and remove it for her?" It all comes down to how you ask/talk to the POA.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 6, 2024 15:29:17 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2015 23:46:00 GMT
This must be a state snag. Where I live the AD trumps the medical POA.
I am sorry to hear of the loss of your friend.
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Post by AussieMeg on Jun 6, 2015 0:10:15 GMT
That's really sad, and I'm sorry to hear about the loss of your friend's mum.
My dad has given me medical POA, and my brother will look after the money side of things. My dad joked that he didn't want to give my brother medical POA because if dad was in hospital for a minor thing my brother would tell them to "pull the plug". I told my dad, in all seriousness, that I wasn't sure I am the right person for medical POA because I don't think I'd be able to agree to turn off the vent. I know it would be the right thing, and I'm sure I would agree to it after the shock had subsided, but I think I'd have a really hard time getting to that point. |
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Post by JoP on Jun 6, 2015 6:29:03 GMT
((Hugs)) peppermintpatty I'm so very sorry for the loss of your friend's mom |
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tincin
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,378
Jul 25, 2014 4:55:32 GMT
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Post by tincin on Jun 6, 2015 12:21:42 GMT
That's really sad, and I'm sorry to hear about the loss of your friend's mum.
My dad has given me medical POA, and my brother will look after the money side of things. My dad joked that he didn't want to give my brother medical POA because if dad was in hospital for a minor thing my brother would tell them to "pull the plug". I told my dad, in all seriousness, that I wasn't sure I am the right person for medical POA because I don't think I'd be able to agree to turn off the vent. I know it would be the right thing, and I'm sure I would agree to it after the shock had subsided, but I think I'd have a really hard time getting to that point. I discussed the medical and financial POAs with my sons and the youngest said there was no way he could do what I wanted medically. So he is the financial kid. Of course the oldest said, "sure no problem Mom, I'll pull the plug for you." Smart aleck. It's a shame they aren't honoring her wishes. This will probably create hard feelings between your friend and her father and aunt. It isn't easy for sure but apparently they discussed it so perhaps they will come around. |
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Post by leftturnonly on Jun 6, 2015 19:27:54 GMT
power of attorney trumps it? My friends mom had a massive stroke. Over 50% of her brain is gone. She had an AD to make her comfortable but don't do anything else like a vent. Her husband has power of attorney and because he can't bring himself to turn off the vent, she will stay like that indefinitely. I have an AD but what good is it if my family decides they don't want to honor it? This just sucks for my friend. ETA: She passed away. I'm sorry for her loss. I just spent time with a family where the wife overrode the DNR 4 times! He is now doing remarkably well considering all he's been through. |
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