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Post by cadoodlebug on Jun 29, 2015 19:29:56 GMT
In March (on my birthday, no less) a man tried to cash a check at the Wells Fargo in a town about 30 minutes away. The check had our names/address/routing number/checking account number printed on it but the teller knew it was a forgery. He ran off with the check in hand. Tried the same thing at two other Wells Fargo branches in the same city and at the last one, the teller kept the check. Long story short he was stupid enough to put his real name as the payee and they arrested him. The detective told us he was on probation, this was his 3rd strike and he committed numerous felonies against us.
Today we get a letter from the DA in that county telling us the disposition of the case. He was convicted of a misdemeanor of Second Degree Commercial Burglary. He got 2 years probation and a few months in jail. We're like WHAT.
Can someone explain how trying to steal our money equals commercial burglary?
He did not get our money but another person with a check with our bank information but not personal information did get over $400 in the same time frame.
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Post by pmk on Jun 29, 2015 19:37:40 GMT
I'm not a legal person or even a U.S. Citizen, so I'm really just thinking out loud! I wonder if it is because if he committed the fraud successfully that the bank would refund your money eventually, so although the original crime is against you, it actually ends up being against the bank?
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Post by epeanymous on Jun 29, 2015 19:38:42 GMT
Criminal law varies a lot from state to state, but fortunately you are not looking for legal advice. Burglary generally can involve either breaking and entering (which is how most people think of burglary) or remaining in a place that you entered with authorization. In both cases, you need to have the intent to commit a crime (usually a felony) while on the premises at the time at which you enter the premises. So while I know zippo about CA law specifically, my guess is that the theory is that the person went onto the bank premises with the check, and that the state's theory was that this demonstrated he intended to commit a crime when he walked onto the bank premises (it's different than, say, a person is in Costco, sees someone's wallet sticking out of her purse, and runs off with it -- it's harder to demonstrate that the latter person meant to steal the wallet when they entered, as opposed to that they just got the bright idea when they saw the wallet).
My guess is that if you're in CA it's desirable to charge this as a burglary because something like trying to cash a check perhaps doesn't count as a strike. Again, no real idea because I am not a lawyer there.
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Post by cadoodlebug on Jun 29, 2015 19:42:14 GMT
Thanks. What got us thinking he would be going to prison is that the detective told us *he will be going away for a long time*. Guess he shouldn't have said that.
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peabrain
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,588 
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Post by peabrain on Jun 29, 2015 19:46:01 GMT
Or, he knew info and cut a deal somewhere. Welcome to the "justice" system
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Post by epeanymous on Jun 29, 2015 19:49:34 GMT
Yeah, my understanding is that CA is trying to cut back on using the three-strikes law to send people to prison for 25+ years for property offenses because it has proven to be really, really expensive for the state. My understanding is also that there are a lot of offenses that can be charged as a strike or not even before you decided whether or not to reduce charges or plea bargain.
Sorry you have had to deal with this. I recently had someone steal my SS number and apply for unemployment benefits in my name, and I was so angry.
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Deleted
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May 5, 2024 14:10:35 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2015 19:56:11 GMT
Really, he was trying to steal from the bank, not you. At least from a law enforcement perspective. That's where the commercial burglary comes in, IMO.
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Post by cadoodlebug on Jun 29, 2015 19:56:50 GMT
Yeah, my understanding is that CA is trying to cut back on using the three-strikes law to send people to prison for 25+ years for property offenses because it has proven to be really, really expensive for the state. My understanding is also that there are a lot of offenses that can be charged as a strike or not even before you decided whether or not to reduce charges or plea bargain. Sorry you have had to deal with this. I recently had someone steal my SS number and apply for unemployment benefits in my name, and I was so angry. Yeah, it really pissed us off big time. The woman who stole money from our account probably cashed the check at a liquor store or such and it isn't worth it for the bank to try to find her. So the phrase *crime doesn't pay* isn't really correct. It makes me crazy.  What concerns us is that this criminal knows where we live and that we pressed charges against him. |
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Post by cadoodlebug on Jun 29, 2015 19:58:05 GMT
Really, he was trying to steal from the bank, not you. At least from a law enforcement perspective. That's where the commercial burglary comes in, IMO. I understand what you're saying but it's interesting they didn't ask the bank if they wanted to press charges, they asked us. |
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MerryMom
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by MerryMom on Jun 29, 2015 20:07:25 GMT
From from the information posted by your avatar, I am assuming you are from California.
CA Penal Code 459
Burglary Laws
Burglary in the state of California, CA Penal Code 459, is different from theft and robbery. It is, in itself, it’s own crime and because of this it has it’s own qualifications and it’s own punishments. CA Penal Code 459 is when a person, upon entering a structure intends to commit a crime.
Burglary is commonly referred to as breaking and entering but the act of “breaking” into a structure is not necessary. A person can be charged with burglary even if they walked through open doors, the important factor however is when they walked through those open doors, did they have the intent to commit a felony.
Two Different Types of Burglary
There are two varying degrees of burglary. First degree residential burglary is always a felony and is commonly referred to as residential burglary. First degree residential burglary refers to burglary that takes place in an inhabited dwelling, for instance, a home, apartment, house boat, ultimately any place where people can live; reference Penal Code 459 for a full list of inhabitable structures.
The sentencing of first degree residential burglary is as follows:
Two (2), four (4), or six (6) years in state prison
Up to $10,000 in fines
Probation will not be offered
Second degree burglary is commonly referred to as commercial burglary because it’s burglary that takes place in any structure other than an inhabitable dwelling.
California Burglary Laws
Penal Code 459 PC
Penal Code 459 PC defines "burglary" as "entering a
room,
structure, or
locked vehicle
with the intent to commit a felony (or, in some cases, a petty theft) once inside.
Burglary is often referred to as "breaking and entering." But prosecutors can charge you with this offense even if there is no forced entry of a room or structure. Only auto burglary requires an actual break-in.
Examples of burglary:
Breaking into a house to steal jewelry or electronics.
Walking into someone's open garage to steal a bicycle.
Entering a department store with the intent to steal an expensive appliance.
Entering a bank branch with the intent to cash a check that you know is fraudulent.
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Deleted
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May 5, 2024 14:10:35 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2015 20:07:30 GMT
Really, he was trying to steal from the bank, not you. At least from a law enforcement perspective. That's where the commercial burglary comes in, IMO. I understand what you're saying but it's interesting they didn't ask the bank if they wanted to press charges, they asked us. Was this something where he knew you/knew of you somehow or intentionally stole specifically your information (like from a mailbox or something)? It's curious to me that they treated this as a crime against you, not the bank. Is it possible the bank also pressed charges and his conviction was on those related charges? Or it's just California and they do things strangely there  |
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Toni Alexis
Junior Member
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Jul 18, 2014 16:16:02 GMT
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Post by Toni Alexis on Jun 29, 2015 20:08:20 GMT
Thanks. What got us thinking he would be going to prison is that the detective told us *he will be going away for a long time*. Guess he shouldn't have said that. This is CA, cadoodlebug. The justice system is a joke here right now. Heck, I could grow marijuana and do Meth and I'd get a slap on the hand and probation. I'm really sorry that happened to you. |
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Post by cadoodlebug on Jun 29, 2015 20:13:30 GMT
I understand what you're saying but it's interesting they didn't ask the bank if they wanted to press charges, they asked us. It's curious to me that they treated this as a crime against you, not the bank. Is it possible the bank also pressed charges and his conviction was on those related charges? Or it's just California and they do things strangely there We had just finished remodeling our house and had written checks to subcontractors over the course of 6 months. I don't think one of them sold our account information but I suspect they cashed our checks other places than at a bank and perhaps the information was stolen there. We'll never know. |
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Post by cadoodlebug on Jun 29, 2015 20:15:28 GMT
From from the information posted by your avatar, I am assuming you are from California. CA Penal Code 459 Burglary Laws Burglary in the state of California, CA Penal Code 459, is different from theft and robbery. It is, in itself, it’s own crime and because of this it has it’s own qualifications and it’s own punishments. CA Penal Code 459 is when a person, upon entering a structure intends to commit a crime. Burglary is commonly referred to as breaking and entering but the act of “breaking” into a structure is not necessary. A person can be charged with burglary even if they walked through open doors, the important factor however is when they walked through those open doors, did they have the intent to commit a felony. Two Different Types of Burglary There are two varying degrees of burglary. First degree residential burglary is always a felony and is commonly referred to as residential burglary. First degree residential burglary refers to burglary that takes place in an inhabited dwelling, for instance, a home, apartment, house boat, ultimately any place where people can live; reference Penal Code 459 for a full list of inhabitable structures. The sentencing of first degree residential burglary is as follows: Two (2), four (4), or six (6) years in state prison Up to $10,000 in fines Probation will not be offered Second degree burglary is commonly referred to as commercial burglary because it’s burglary that takes place in any structure other than an inhabitable dwelling. California Burglary Laws Penal Code 459 PC Penal Code 459 PC defines "burglary" as "entering a room, structure, or locked vehicle with the intent to commit a felony (or, in some cases, a petty theft) once inside.
Burglary is often referred to as "breaking and entering." But prosecutors can charge you with this offense even if there is no forced entry of a room or structure. Only auto burglary requires an actual break-in.Examples of burglary: Breaking into a house to steal jewelry or electronics. Walking into someone's open garage to steal a bicycle. Entering a department store with the intent to steal an expensive appliance. Entering a bank branch with the intent to cash a check that you know is fraudulent. Thanks. I had googled commercial burglary and saw all this but missed the very last line. |
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Post by lucyg on Jun 29, 2015 21:00:05 GMT
Joy, if you still have questions, PM me. My sister is a deputy DA in my county and may be able to answer them more completely for you.
I'm guessing there was a plea deal. The state is desperately trying to keep people out of prison wherever possible. Prison system is overcrowded, underfunded, and falling apart.
I doubt he'll target you personally. I think the ones who commit non-violent crimes don't tend to be the same ones who commit violent crimes.
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Post by cadoodlebug on Jun 29, 2015 22:36:55 GMT
Joy, if you still have questions, PM me. My sister is a deputy DA in my county and may be able to answer them more completely for you. I'm guessing there was a plea deal. The state is desperately trying to keep people out of prison wherever possible. Prison system is overcrowded, underfunded, and falling apart. I doubt he'll target you personally. I think the ones who commit non-violent crimes don't tend to be the same ones who commit violent crimes. Thanks, Lucy. MerryMom's post pretty well explained it. The only good thing that came of it was Wells Fargo gave us free checks for the new account and we could pick anything. Of course I went with the LSU checks.  |
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What concerns us is that this criminal knows where we live and that we pressed charges against him. 
