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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2015 21:46:42 GMT
The younger children are protected from the minute they receive the vaccine. What a lot of people don't seem to understand and it sounds as if your husband is one of them, is that SOME vaccines are not life long protection so after a few years they need a booster. Tetanus is one that comes to mind. Tetanus has a lifespan of 10 years then the immunity " memory"weakens so you need another booster to remind the immune system to start working again. MMR is another that needs boosters. The lifespan is shorter in an MMR For the babies that are too young to have a vaccine such as the MMR,they carry protection by the immunity their mothers pass on to them when they are born. If your children are up to date with their vaccines then there is no reason to keep them away from unvaccinated children because your children are already protected. This is not entirely correct information, not from my reading, anyway. Some vaccinations are given as a series and full protection is attained by completion of the entire series. Some vaccinations don't kick in right away and there's a waiting period for immunity. And some people are still not fully protected even though they've been vaccinated. Herd immunity is a benefit to them and exposure to non-vaccinated children (if they carry the disease) could be a danger to them. Younger babies clearly do not carry full immunity from birth or breastfeeding, because they are always among the first victims in any epidemic. Of course, if you are a health professional, I will bow to your greater knowledge. Yes I know that some vaccines are given as a series Lucy but my understanding from out health service as in the case of the MMR that passive immunity is gained from the mother for at least the first 6-9 months and may last until 12 months. The measles and rubella part of the vaccine has a 90% immunity from the first dose at 13 months and 95% from the second ( booster)dose at 4 years old. I've always understood that it's only the Flu & MMR that has the two weeks affect period because they are a" live" vaccine and that protection from the 5 in 1 which they receive here at 8,12 & 16 weeks is much much shorter. I'm not a health professional and I'll stand corrected if I'm wrong ETA - I also realize that there is the possibility that SOME are not protected even if they have had the vaccine but if everyone was considering that risk no child would be allowed outside the house. As someone pointed out earlier you're never fully protected from everyone's coughs and sneezes all of the time. The same can be said for and un-vaccinated child ( I have vaccinated mine BTW) they can be exposed to the illnesses and never catch it themselves. We don't vaccinate here against chickenpox and DD1 has been in the company of others that have come down with the illness many a time ( not deliberately but unknowingly) and had never caught it.
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Post by katiekaty on Jul 16, 2015 21:59:09 GMT
Your children should be as well protected as they can be once they complete the initial series of vaccines. The remaining vaccines after the first 2-3 years are to ensure continuing immunity as their immune systems mature-boosters. Without the boosters the longevity of the immunity is questionable at a certain point, so follow through on vaccination is important. The unvaccinated children are at far greater risk being out in the community than your children are. Playing with them shouldn't pose any risk to your children. However those unvaccinated children can be at risk when they play with your children after they receive a vaccination or booster. The community as a whole is a dangerous place for any child but less so for a child that has been vaccinated-some vaccinations provide a cross immunity to other diseases and therefore carry even extra benefits. I would let my child play with them and be worry free. Now the other mother should be shaking in her pants and praying her kid doesn't pick up something really nasty from the outside world!!
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Post by lucyg on Jul 16, 2015 22:18:46 GMT
This is not entirely correct information, not from my reading, anyway. Some vaccinations are given as a series and full protection is attained by completion of the entire series. Some vaccinations don't kick in right away and there's a waiting period for immunity. And some people are still not fully protected even though they've been vaccinated. Herd immunity is a benefit to them and exposure to non-vaccinated children (if they carry the disease) could be a danger to them. Younger babies clearly do not carry full immunity from birth or breastfeeding, because they are always among the first victims in any epidemic. Of course, if you are a health professional, I will bow to your greater knowledge. Yes I know that some vaccines are given as a series Lucy but my understanding from out health service as in the case of the MMR that passive immunity is gained from the mother for at least the first 6-9 months and may last until 12 months. The measles and rubella part of the vaccine has a 90% immunity from the first dose at 13 months and 95% from the second ( booster)dose at 4 years old. I've always understood that it's only the Flu & MMR that has the two weeks affect period because they are a" live" vaccine and that protection from the 5 in 1 which they receive here at 8,12 & 16 weeks is much much shorter. I'm not a health professional and I'll stand corrected if I'm wrong ETA - I also realize that there is the possibility that SOME are not protected even if they have had the vaccine but if everyone was considering that risk no child would be allowed outside the house. As someone pointed out earlier you're never fully protected from everyone's coughs and sneezes all of the time. The same can be said for and un-vaccinated child ( I have vaccinated mine BTW) they can be exposed to the illnesses and never catch it themselves. We don't vaccinate here against chickenpox and DD1 has been in the company of others that have come down with the illness many a time ( not deliberately but unknowingly) and had never caught it. I just had a tetanus booster last week because I cut my foot on the kid's dirty bike pedal, and my old tetanus shot was just about 10 years old. The doctor said it was sort of pointless because it takes two weeks to kick in, but I figured if I didn't get it now, I was just going to need one soon, anyway. He and I started discussing vaccinations and boosters and all, and that's partly why I'm feeling so opinionated today.
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Post by LavenderLayoutLady on Jul 16, 2015 22:43:02 GMT
In many situations, I would never know because I don't make a point to ask parents if their children are vaccinated. This is me too, but I guess I am naive because I took for granted that all the kids my kids know are vaccinated.
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Post by maryland on Jul 16, 2015 22:55:21 GMT
If parents are anti-vaxxers, then we probably don't have a lot in common and I don' think I'd be pursuing friendships for my kids with them anyway. People who knowingly put their kids' "needs" before others and refuse immunizations for their special snowflake really piss me off. I get that some children can't be vaxxed beacuse of a suppressed immune system. In fact, we have a good family friend whose daughter just spent months in the hospital for leukemia treatment at age 2, so I know for a fact she hasn't/can't get all her shots. But the people who think that they need to avoid the MMR, for example, because Jenny McCarthy said so or because one crackpot doctor (whose study has been thoroughly debunked) said so are just beyond my comprehension. Rant over....I guess I would just really have to consider whether I wanted to be friends with people who ignore mainstream science. And I would be concerned for your younger DD who has not had the full course of shots yet because of her age. That's how I feel!
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Post by alittleintrepid on Jul 16, 2015 22:59:17 GMT
When my kids were babies and not fully vaccinated, we went to play groups, the library, the public pool, nursery school settings, the grocery store, and countless other places where they could pick up diseases or infections. I never worried about it. I was probably more worried about the flu. I encouraged good hand washing and believe that breast feeding supported their healthy immune systems. I've had kids on delayed vaccination schedules in my home as well as one kid who can never have his MMR (due to an egg allergy) . BUT, we were not living near a recent outbreak.zone (which you can see on the CDC website so I understand that the risk of exposure might be slightly higher if you're living in California, OP. So, I probably wouldn't say anything and wouldn't stop play dates but *i* would probably initiate more play dates with parents who share my values (by which I mean a belief in science).
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melissa
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Jun 25, 2014 20:45:00 GMT
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Post by melissa on Jul 17, 2015 13:09:19 GMT
If parents are anti-vaxxers, then we probably don't have a lot in common and I don' think I'd be pursuing friendships for my kids with them anyway. People who knowingly put their kids' "needs" before others and refuse immunizations for their special snowflake really piss me off. I get that some children can't be vaxxed beacuse of a suppressed immune system. In fact, we have a good family friend whose daughter just spent months in the hospital for leukemia treatment at age 2, so I know for a fact she hasn't/can't get all her shots. But the people who think that they need to avoid the MMR, for example, because Jenny McCarthy said so or because one crackpot doctor (whose study has been thoroughly debunked) said so are just beyond my comprehension. Rant over....I guess I would just really have to consider whether I wanted to be friends with people who ignore mainstream science. And I would be concerned for your younger DD who has not had the full course of shots yet because of her age. This. Unless there is a valid reason, these are not people I would be associating with on purpose unless they were forming a study group to learn basic biology and chemistry followed by a courses in immunology and infectious diseases. Anti-vaxxers have no respect for other people. They may pretend to, but the proof is in the pudding. They put their own silly pseudoscience above the rest of the world. Can you tell I've had it with these people? Herd immunity? That's becoming a thing of the past. Vaccines do NOT kick in the moment they are given. Babies and toddlers are not completely protected by their mother's immunity for that long either. This is called passive immunity and it lasts weeks to months. Breastfed babies will have a longer period of protection, but this is nothing precise and will vary with the individual.
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caro
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Post by caro on Jul 17, 2015 13:29:49 GMT
For those who don't understand why I'm asking- I thought it was a non-issue as well, since we vax. But what my DH thinks younger children and babies aren't necessarily protected because they might've only had one dose of a vaccine, or not had that vaccine at all yet because they aren't old enough. Maybe I'm not explaining that well? My DD's Ped told her very young, under age 2 or so are the most susceptible to non-vax kids because the child getting vaccines may not be fully protected. This issue came up while I was doing daycare in my home and had DGS who was 20 months. I was interviewing another family and the mom told me her child was not getting vaccines at all. So DD did her research and talked to her Ped. You need to talk to your DR about your concerns.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2015 15:01:55 GMT
I'm past that point with my children, and everyone in my circle vaccinated on schedule, but it would definitely give me pause for thought if I were to have an infant or toddler right now.
I realize that you would be potentially taking a risk every time you go out in public, but there's a difference between that and knowingly being in close quarters with an unvaccinated child. And it stands to reason that they would be associating with other families who don't vaccinate, so the risk of them carrying something would theoretically be greater. I've said it here before, but as the daughter of someone who contracted polio before the vaccine was available and is a paraplegic as a result, I have zero tolerance for the anti-vaccination movement.
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Post by scrapmaven on Jul 17, 2015 15:32:29 GMT
I never asked, but the people I associated w/vaccinated their kids. Why would you let a child suffer or possibly die when there's a vaccine that does far more good than it does harm?
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Post by jonda1974 on Jul 17, 2015 16:27:00 GMT
I'm just really shocked by the people attributing moral superiority to vaccination as if it was on the checklist of reasons to or not to associate with someone. I'll put it on the list next to drug use, so I know that someone who doesn't vaccinate is morally and intellectually reprobate.
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Post by lucyg on Jul 17, 2015 16:59:11 GMT
I'm just really shocked by the people attributing moral superiority to vaccination as if it was on the checklist of reasons to or not to associate with someone. I'll put it on the list next to drug use, so I know that someone who doesn't vaccinate is morally and intellectually reprobate. Pretty much, and this time I'm not being funny. These anti-vax people endanger not just their own children (bad enough) but the entire community, and all for unfathomable (to me) reasons. I have zero patience.
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Post by jonda1974 on Jul 17, 2015 17:28:05 GMT
While I understand that vaccination is important, I have had bad reactions to the last two vaccinations I received. When I got the MMR, I ended up with a triple infection in my throat, and was sick for several months after. Took the 2nd of 3 for the HepB vac at a previous job, and the day after was in the emergency room having Bell's Palsy treated. I support scientific advancement, and I'm pro-vaccination, but I'm not going to judge those who are leery of science, that is a herd mentality. In my day, we never even talked about it. We are continually becoming a more isolated, only associate with those who tow the same line as us society.
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Post by Miss Lerins Momma on Jul 17, 2015 17:48:56 GMT
I've never asked anyone if they do or don't vaccinate their kids. So I wouldn't know.
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Post by jenis40 on Jul 17, 2015 17:51:26 GMT
While I understand that vaccination is important, I have had bad reactions to the last two vaccinations I received. When I got the MMR, I ended up with a triple infection in my throat, and was sick for several months after. Took the 2nd of 3 for the HepB vac at a previous job, and the day after was in the emergency room having Bell's Palsy treated. I support scientific advancement, and I'm pro-vaccination, but I'm not going to judge those who are leery of science, that is a herd mentality. In my day, we never even talked about it. We are continually becoming a more isolated, only associate with those who tow the same line as us society. It sounds like you have LEGITIMATE medical reasons not to vaccinate which I think all of us support. It's the parents who opted out because of some bullcrap they read on the internet that I have a problem with. A stem cell transplant to treat my leukemia has left me with no immune system (have to take all my childhood vaccinations over). This isn't something I ever worried about before but now I have a vested interest in it. I have no choice but to become isolated to protect myself and this is already a lonely fricking disease.
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Post by alittleintrepid on Jul 17, 2015 18:14:31 GMT
I'm just really shocked by the people attributing moral superiority to vaccination as if it was on the checklist of reasons to or not to associate with someone. I'll put it on the list next to drug use, so I know that someone who doesn't vaccinate is morally and intellectually reprobate. Pretty much, and this time I'm not being funny. These anti-vax people endanger not just their own children (bad enough) but the entire community, and all for unfathomable (to me) reasons. I have zero patience. I disagree. Drug users aren't all bad people. Just don't use and be responsible for the care of a child, or drive, or otherwise put other people at risk! But, the anti-vaxers? If they still believe Jenny McCarthy's crap....I have no time for it.
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LeaP
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Location: Los Angeles, CA where 405 meets 101
Jun 26, 2014 23:17:22 GMT
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Post by LeaP on Jul 17, 2015 22:18:30 GMT
I looked up the vaccination rates in my town, and fortunately we have a high vax rate. Which surprised me, as close to Berkeley and Marin county as we are. My eldest was born in Marin. The hospital tour was a hoot with everybody questioning every well established medical procedure. I'm glad we moved because I wouldn't have had the patience for all the anti-vax sentiment.
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LeaP
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,939
Location: Los Angeles, CA where 405 meets 101
Jun 26, 2014 23:17:22 GMT
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Post by LeaP on Jul 17, 2015 22:27:27 GMT
While I understand that vaccination is important, I have had bad reactions to the last two vaccinations I received. When I got the MMR, I ended up with a triple infection in my throat, and was sick for several months after. Took the 2nd of 3 for the HepB vac at a previous job, and the day after was in the emergency room having Bell's Palsy treated. I support scientific advancement, and I'm pro-vaccination, but I'm not going to judge those who are leery of science, that is a herd mentality. In my day, we never even talked about it. We are continually becoming a more isolated, only associate with those who tow the same line as us society. It sounds like you have LEGITIMATE medical reasons not to vaccinate which I think all of us support. It's the parents who opted out because of some bullcrap they read on the internet that I have a problem with. A stem cell transplant to treat my leukemia has left me with no immune system (have to take all my childhood vaccinations over). This isn't something I ever worried about before but now I have a vested interest in it. I have no choice but to become isolated to protect myself and this is already a lonely fricking disease. I vaccinated my kids so that their immunity helps them AND the herd. We are part of a society and I take my role in protecting people who have compromised immune systems or cannot have vaccines seriously. I do not have a medical degree and refuse to take advice from a B-list model/actress and a physician who forged data.
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LeaP
Pearl Clutcher
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Location: Los Angeles, CA where 405 meets 101
Jun 26, 2014 23:17:22 GMT
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Post by LeaP on Jul 17, 2015 22:28:51 GMT
I've never asked anyone if they do or don't vaccinate their kids. So I wouldn't know. In my part of the world, people volunteer the information and imply that you are stupid for vaccinating. Sigh.
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Post by lucyg on Jul 18, 2015 1:12:49 GMT
While I understand that vaccination is important, I have had bad reactions to the last two vaccinations I received. When I got the MMR, I ended up with a triple infection in my throat, and was sick for several months after. Took the 2nd of 3 for the HepB vac at a previous job, and the day after was in the emergency room having Bell's Palsy treated. I support scientific advancement, and I'm pro-vaccination, but I'm not going to judge those who are leery of science, that is a herd mentality. In my day, we never even talked about it. We are continually becoming a more isolated, only associate with those who tow the same line as us society. What the others already said. If you have legitimate medical reasons for avoiding vaccinations, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the people who have convinced themselves that vaccinations are injecting poison into children's bodies, and that they know better than their doctor, the CDC, and all those people who lost babies to these preventable diseases for thousands of years before vaccines, and literally would have given their right arm to be able to protect their children with a simple immunization.
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Post by scrapApea on Jul 18, 2015 1:18:57 GMT
The purpose of having my kids vaccinated is so they have immunity or decreased susceptibility to the diseases they are vaccinated for. I don't even understand this question. It seems like something I would never worry about in a million years. Who are you worrying about? Your kids? They're vaccinated so you should be good. Her kids? Her problem.
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Post by AussieMeg on Jul 18, 2015 1:55:05 GMT
I understand your concern, and I would also be worried about your 18 month old. I would be tempted to steer clear of them as much as possible. And yes it's true that your kids could come into contact with unvaccinated kids at a store or a park, but you can't really control that. In your case you KNOW that the kids are not vaccinated, so you are able to make a choice. If parents are anti-vaxxers, then we probably don't have a lot in common and I don' think I'd be pursuing friendships for my kids with them anyway.
This x 100.
And then after hearing this little gem:
That nutcase is definitely not someone who I would be prepared to spend any time with at all.
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