pridemom
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by pridemom on Jul 20, 2015 17:53:45 GMT
I serve on a committee that fills positions in a church of about 450-500. Positions start in September and we begin our meetings in April of each year. In the spring, I asked for job descriptions to use when recruiting individuals. It's my third and final year on this committee and I want to present an accurate idea to someone so they can make an informed decision. Well, we never got job descriptions and I am trying to fill a position that really needs one. I don't think it's fair to saddle me with this when I am not getting backing that I asked for.
I'm frustrated and just want this to be over.
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Post by ingrid6 on Jul 20, 2015 18:09:45 GMT
I'm sorry! That must be very frustrating and definitely not fair to you. I'm a core ministry leader at our church (just over 600 members) and we have job descriptions for every position - volunteer & paid. I can't imagine trying to get volunteers without being able to present to them what they are in for. Is this something that you can bring to your lead or executive pastor or someone in charge?
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Deleted
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May 17, 2024 21:44:48 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2015 18:13:37 GMT
Is there anyone within the church (either employee or volunteer) who has the background/education/ability to put together job descriptions? Or are you asking people in the volunteer job to write their own?
From being in HR and creating job descriptions for employees at all levels including people with multiple college degrees, I can tell you that most people don't have the ability to do so, even for their own jobs. I've found I have to present them with a basic one that they then might modify, but often I get it back with no changes! (many times you can google the job title and job description to get a basic one to start with)
That said, my biggest beef with volunteering is then being treated like an employee! I think maybe I would change it to a list of tasks that the volunteer does versus calling it a job description. (That way you can also avoid any claims that it should be a paid job with wages). I have better luck when I ask for a list of tasks or I shadow them while working and then it is pretty easy to modify it into a job/position description.
I did just takeover as the Secretary of a non-profit organization and it boggled my mind that the person before me had no real organization and no real list of duties, so I do agree that it is nice to have for a newbie!
eta: is it possible that your denomination would have some standard ones? Just another place to look!
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pridemom
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,843
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Post by pridemom on Jul 20, 2015 21:58:36 GMT
Is there anyone within the church (either employee or volunteer) who has the background/education/ability to put together job descriptions? Or are you asking people in the volunteer job to write their own?
From being in HR and creating job descriptions for employees at all levels including people with multiple college degrees, I can tell you that most people don't have the ability to do so, even for their own jobs. I've found I have to present them with a basic one that they then might modify, but often I get it back with no changes! (many times you can google the job title and job description to get a basic one to start with)
That said, my biggest beef with volunteering is then being treated like an employee! I think maybe I would change it to a list of tasks that the volunteer does versus calling it a job description. (That way you can also avoid any claims that it should be a paid job with wages). I have better luck when I ask for a list of tasks or I shadow them while working and then it is pretty easy to modify it into a job/position description.
I did just takeover as the Secretary of a non-profit organization and it boggled my mind that the person before me had no real organization and no real list of duties, so I do agree that it is nice to have for a newbie!
eta: is it possible that your denomination would have some standard ones? Just another place to look!
I hadn't thought of checking with the denomination. I will do that. I'd be happy with a bullet point list. It's very hard to recruit with the reply of "The outgoing person can give you a good explaination." I am so glad I am nearly done. When I agreed to this committee I was not told it was a three year assignment. |
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pridemom
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,843
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Post by pridemom on Jul 20, 2015 21:59:52 GMT
I'm sorry! That must be very frustrating and definitely not fair to you. I'm a core ministry leader at our church (just over 600 members) and we have job descriptions for every position - volunteer & paid. I can't imagine trying to get volunteers without being able to present to them what they are in for. Is this something that you can bring to your lead or executive pastor or someone in charge? The administrative pastor know as he is the staff rep on the committee. Hence part of my frustration. |
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 17, 2024 21:44:48 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2015 22:59:58 GMT
I'm sorry! That must be very frustrating and definitely not fair to you. I'm a core ministry leader at our church (just over 600 members) and we have job descriptions for every position - volunteer & paid. I can't imagine trying to get volunteers without being able to present to them what they are in for. Is this something that you can bring to your lead or executive pastor or someone in charge? The administrative pastor know as he is the staff rep on the committee. Hence part of my frustration. I always forget that some churches have admin/business pastors..... Honestly, it should be his job and he should have enough training to be able to do a large part with help. I would think it would be in the best interests of the church to have these descriptions too! |
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quiltz
Drama Llama
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Jun 29, 2014 16:13:28 GMT
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Post by quiltz on Jul 20, 2015 23:09:01 GMT
I know of many churches where the volunteers require a police background check. The church will pay the fee and due to privacy concerns, the volunteer has to fill out the form and take it to the police station and also pick it up, review it and submit to the church to keep on file.
Edited to add: A police check is done so that the church has done their due diligence when recruiting volunteers. That their volunteers have not had any violations such as abuse charges, sexual preditor charges & similar. |
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Kerri W
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Posts: 3,769
Location: Kentucky
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Post by Kerri W on Jul 20, 2015 23:22:15 GMT
I feel for you. The last associate pastor we had made "job descriptions" one of his very first orders of business. For staff and volunteers. And let me tell you...it has been WONDERFUL to know *who* to ask a question to or take a concern to because we actually know who deals with what.
I completely get what @luvspaper is saying about being treated like an employee when you're volunteering, but I really feel it's for the best for there to be clear guidelines of what is expected of that position. Not necessarily for somebody who is helping in the kitchen during a church dinner but for a regular volunteer position such as answering the phone every Tuesday or heading a committee. There needs to be direction and a little bit of accountability so that things run consistently and smoothly.
I'm not exactly sure where this fits in. Because people have to have a background check, they don't want to volunteer at church? If that's the case then I say, well thank goodness they have to have background checks. Let us learn from past mistakes and be more selective of volunteers in all aspects, be it church, school or whatever, when it comes to our children.
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pridemom
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,843
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Post by pridemom on Jul 20, 2015 23:57:41 GMT
I know of many churches where the volunteers require a police background check. The church will pay the fee and due to privacy concerns, the volunteer has to fill out the form and take it to the police station and also pick it up, review it and submit to the church to keep on file.
Edited to add: A police check is done so that the church has done their due diligence when recruiting volunteers. That their volunteers have not had any violations such as abuse charges, sexual preditor charges & similar. Anyone working with children or youth in our church has a background check. But that's not pertinent to this position. Besides anyone with a calling to children's ministry should be happy to oblige because the best interest of children should be first in their minds. |
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Deleted
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May 17, 2024 21:44:48 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2015 0:02:24 GMT
There needs to be direction and a little bit of accountability so that things run consistently and smoothly. Totally agree with direction and accountability and consistency! But when you ask/require them to write their own "job description", it can get dicey because they become their own accountability and often miss some of the larger things they might or might not do. And it can start to feel like a job rather than volunteering.
I love the idea of an admin pastor doing it or someone a little bit higher up who actually has the expectations start with the basic from the volunteer if you have to start from the ground up. And I would just name it something different -- for some reason I am adverse to using the word "job" rather than position or something such as that -- and have it be a little less structured (but I am thinking of professional HR type job description format). It's hard when you have volunteers to walk the line of specific requirements vs things they could do in the position.
I think it is because I have my for profit managers wanting to try to let non-employees 'volunteer' in all sorts of ways. I keep a very solid black line between the two so as to not cross that difference.
And I am a bit gun-shy on volunteering at churches, especially when I have had people in paid positions treat volunteers poorly, with little to no recognition of loyalty, commitment etc. The paid staff felt "above" those volunteers because they had been hired and liked to treat those below as their subordinates because of it, rather than peers or even those that are making things happen for no pay!
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scrapaddie
Drama Llama
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Post by scrapaddie on Jul 21, 2015 9:21:14 GMT
Can you meet with the current person and discuss the job description.... A volunteer in church probably is doing a lot of other things. Sometimes it is all they can do to get the things that they need to get done completed. In the list of things that must be done, this may have a very low priority. Make it easy on the person by meeting with them and discuss it with them, taking notes.
In my church, the volunteer positions are formally written and approved by council
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scrapaddie
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Post by scrapaddie on Jul 21, 2015 9:23:55 GMT
My vent about church volunteers.... no one volunteers and the same people have to do jobs over and over. I could not run for my current elected position because my tierm was over. Because no one else would run, the church council appointed me.
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scrapaddie
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,090
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Post by scrapaddie on Jul 21, 2015 9:24:05 GMT
My vent about church volunteers.... no one volunteers and the same people have to do jobs over and over. I could not run for my current elected position because my tierm was over. Because no one else would run, the church council appointed me.
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Post by originalvanillabean on Jul 21, 2015 16:31:52 GMT
frustrating indeed! hope you can find one from another source.
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