Deleted
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May 17, 2024 23:41:23 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2015 20:30:30 GMT
I wish that Obama had done it because he thought it was the right thing to do vs. waiting until the pressure and criticism became so strong.
I was mixed on this when the WH initially chose to not lower the flag. As much as I respect and honor the 5 lives lost and the lives changed forever in Chattanooga, the flag was never lowered for the men and women previously killed by terrorists on the battlefield. Those men/women are no less brave than the 5 in Chattanooga and deserved no less honor than those in Chattanooga. So in that respect, I was not one of the individuals posting flags at half staff on FB.
Waiting 5 days to lower the flag just seems so insincere and at this point, I wish he had just stuck to his initial reaction and not lowered it at all.
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Deleted
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May 17, 2024 23:41:23 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2015 20:35:56 GMT
I can't control what others do, but our flag is certainly at half mast!
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georgiapea
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,846
Jun 27, 2014 18:02:10 GMT
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Post by georgiapea on Jul 21, 2015 20:38:15 GMT
At this point if I were to pass by the White House and saw the lowered flag I would think something had happened just today or maybe yesterday.
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Post by disneypal on Jul 21, 2015 20:41:06 GMT
Not sure why it took so long but glad the flags are finally being lowered.
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Deleted
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May 17, 2024 23:41:23 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2015 21:11:52 GMT
What's the protocol for lowering flags at half staff? How often were they lowered during Bush's administration when soldiers were killed in Iraq and Afghanistan? I think they should have been lowered then and now. I wonder how they make the determination? Is it because it was done on U.S. soil? I just need more information to know if it's a problem with Obama or other presidents were slow in doing the same thing. I did a quick Google search, but didn't go past page 1. It does look like it happened in 2009 with the Fort Hood shootings. ETA: Isn't it half staff, not half mast?
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Post by originalvanillabean on Jul 21, 2015 21:12:57 GMT
Waiting 5 days to lower the flag just seems so insincere and at this point. Absolutely.
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azredhead
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,755
Jun 25, 2014 22:49:18 GMT
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Post by azredhead on Jul 21, 2015 21:28:30 GMT
I couldn't understand it either. Why didn't he do it when he made his statement? He's the Chief? Does their have to be a protocal for that? It's seems crazy that it took 5 days and with pressure? I'm glad you postedd it I was gonna mention it on the shooting thread but it seemed it need its own. It should have been done. I have seen some that were already lowered.
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lindas
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,159
Jun 26, 2014 5:46:37 GMT
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Post by lindas on Jul 21, 2015 21:30:00 GMT
If John Boehner hadn't ordered the flag at the Capitol to be lowered the White House would never have done it.
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Post by freecharlie on Jul 21, 2015 21:32:27 GMT
Flags are typically lowered in the state a soldier is from or is stationed. If flags flew at half staff for every military death, they would be there most of the time unfortunately.
But they have been ordered to be lowered for other shootings including Sandy hook, the theatre shooting, and the shooting at the navigation yard.
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back to *pea*ality
Pearl Clutcher
Not my circus, not my monkeys ~refugee pea #59
Posts: 3,149
Jun 25, 2014 19:51:11 GMT
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Post by back to *pea*ality on Jul 21, 2015 21:40:46 GMT
Better late than never. But truthfully, it was no surprise. Obama is so uber sensitive about naming this kind of violence as radical Muslim terrorism. Again, the high alert be diligent word went out just before the 4th of July. There have been ongoing stories about military personnel being targets and warnings to be careful on social media if you are in the military and when it happens *crickets* from the White House.
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eleezybeth
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,784
Jun 28, 2014 20:42:01 GMT
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Post by eleezybeth on Jul 21, 2015 21:43:59 GMT
Uh, does flag protocol actually matter to anybody or is this just something we can randomly have false rage for? Like claiming you have freedom of speech when the government isn't even involved. Didn't anybody take a civics class?
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 17, 2024 23:41:23 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2015 21:48:54 GMT
Uh, does flag protocol actually matter to anybody or is this just something we can randomly have false rage for? Like claiming you have freedom of speech when the government isn't even involved. Didn't anybody take a civics class? You don't care about flag protocol?
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Peal
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,524
Jun 25, 2014 22:45:40 GMT
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Post by Peal on Jul 21, 2015 21:54:34 GMT
What's the protocol for lowering flags at half staff? How often were they lowered during Bush's administration when soldiers were killed in Iraq and Afghanistan? I think they should have been lowered then and now. I wonder how they make the determination? Is it because it was done on U.S. soil? I just need more information to know if it's a problem with Obama or other presidents were slow in doing the same thing. I did a quick Google search, but didn't go past page 1. It does look like it happened in 2009 with the Fort Hood shootings. ETA: Isn't it half staff, not half mast?It's half staff if you are on land, half mast if you are at sea. For most of us it's half staff.
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Post by lucyg on Jul 21, 2015 21:54:54 GMT
This is the first I've heard of this. And honestly, my first response was "seriously?"
And yes @coilstrand, the proper term is half-staff. Half-mast is for boats.
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Post by gossamer on Jul 21, 2015 22:14:30 GMT
Well apparently no one told him, you know he gets his information from TV. But I agree, 5 days doesn't show his support for the military. He didn't wait to turn on the rainbow colors.
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Post by Skypea on Jul 21, 2015 23:03:14 GMT
he supports SSM, not the military.
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Post by freecharlie on Jul 21, 2015 23:24:47 GMT
Uh, does flag protocol actually matter to anybody or is this just something we can randomly have false rage for? Like claiming you have freedom of speech when the government isn't even involved. Didn't anybody take a civics class? it matters t9bme to a point. I was pissed off that new jersey lowered their flag for Whitney Houston. In this case, I believe that the home states where these guys were from lowered theor flags as well as Tennessee. Do we lower the federal flags for things like helicopters being shot down. Or bases being attacked/destroyed? Is their protocol that has to be followed for military? Like I said, if we lowered for every death ot would never fly high.
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Deleted
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May 17, 2024 23:41:23 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2015 23:26:30 GMT
This is the first I've heard of this. And honestly, my first response was "seriously?" And yes @coilstrand, the proper term is half-staff. Half-mast is for boats. Woo! Good to know! My dad was heavily involved in scouting (Silver Beaver). He took flag protocol seriously! You should see the flag pole and light he rigged up at our house. If the flag was staying up all night, that sucker was going to have a spotlight! So I feel sheepish when asking questions, because I should know!
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Post by gracieplusthree on Jul 22, 2015 1:27:47 GMT
yeah sadly if we lowered it for every active duty military deaths we would never see it fly at full staff(is that the right terminology?). Sadly we likely lose more soldiers every year than there are days in a year and that doesnt even account for situations like Sandy Hook where it was lowered.
I'm an hour away from where the shootings took place in Chattanooga and here the flags have been down ever since,but thats to be expected.
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Post by gracieplusthree on Jul 22, 2015 1:31:21 GMT
Just for info cause I went and looked thought Id share,copied and pasted info below from flag code at usflag.org
(m) The flag, when flown at half-staff, should be first hoisted to the peak for an instant and then lowered to the half-staff position. The flag should be again raised to the peak before it is lowered for the day. On Memorial Day the flag should be displayed at half-staff until noon only, then raised to the top of the staff. By order of the President, the flag shall be flown at half-staff upon the death of principal figures of the United States Government and the Governor of a State, territory, or possession, as a mark of respect to their memory. In the event of the death of other officials or foreign dignitaries, the flag is to be displayed at half-staff according to Presidential instructions or orders, or in accordance with recognized customs or practices not inconsistent with law. In the event of the death of a present or former official of the government of any State, territory, or possession of the United States, the Governor of that State, territory, or possession may proclaim that the National flag shall be flown at half-staff. The flag shall be flown at half-staff thirty days from the death of the President or a former President; ten days from the day of death of the Vice President, the Chief Justice or a retired Chief Justice of the United States, or the Speaker of the House of Representatives; from the day of death until interment of an Associate Justice of the Supreme Court, a Secretary of an executive or military department, a former Vice President, or the Governor of a State, territory, or possession; and on the day of death and the following day for a Member of Congress. As used in this subsection -
(1) the term 'half-staff' means the position of the flag when it is one-half the distance between the top and bottom of the staff; (2) the term 'executive or military department' means any agency listed under sections 101 and 102 of title 5; and (3) the term 'Member of Congress' means a Senator, a Representative, a Delegate, or the Resident Commissioner from Puerto Rico.
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Post by foolana on Jul 22, 2015 1:40:24 GMT
Some people are never happy.
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Peamac
Pearl Clutcher
Refupea # 418
Posts: 4,218
Jun 26, 2014 0:09:18 GMT
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Post by Peamac on Jul 22, 2015 2:50:47 GMT
I was mixed on this when the WH initially chose to not lower the flag. As much as I respect and honor the 5 lives lost and the lives changed forever in Chattanooga, the flag was never lowered for the men and women previously killed by terrorists on the battlefield. Those men/women are no less brave than the 5 in Chattanooga and deserved no less honor than those in Chattanooga. So in that respect, I was not one of the individuals posting flags at half staff on FB.
We have flags at half-mast here when a soldier from our state is killed in action. But these soldiers were killed here in their homeland, where they should have been safe. You're right- these five are no braver than the men/women serving overseas, but I understand why the half-staff flags when they are killed by a terrorist right here at home.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 17, 2024 23:41:23 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2015 3:04:36 GMT
Some people are never happy. And some people cannot resist complaining even when they have absolutely nothing to offer to the discussion.
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Post by doesitmatter on Jul 22, 2015 4:07:48 GMT
I think it's a sensitive issue because as others have said, if you lower it for some, what about the others? Miitary lives lost? Police officers? Other tragedies? I am just glad I am not the one to make the decision about when it is or isn't lowered, it's tough call on a sensitive issue and will be criticized no matter the outcome. I am not against it being lowered to show our sadness as a nation but I think there are so many lives lost - especially miltary that our flag would be down more than up. I don't know what's right, and again I am not judgmental / against it being lowered -I understand why it's being done. I don't know really but I will respect the judgement of the white house on this issue.
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Post by foolana on Jul 22, 2015 17:32:51 GMT
Some people are never happy. And some people cannot resist complaining even when they have absolutely nothing to offer to the discussion. This entire thread is nothing but a complaint about Obama, followed by many more complaints about Obama. I forgot that I had to ask permission to add my opinion to this discussion. Hypocrisy at it's finest, @gajenny. Ridiculous.
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Post by freecharlie on Jul 22, 2015 17:37:20 GMT
And some people cannot resist complaining even when they have absolutely nothing to offer to the discussion. This entire thread is nothing but a complaint about Obama, followed by many more complaints about Obama. I forgot that I had to ask permission to add my opinion to this discussion. Hypocrisy at it's finest, @gajenny. Ridiculous. not everybody complained about Obama There was also a cordial discussion about flag protocol, but apparently you didn't read that part.
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Post by foolana on Jul 22, 2015 18:09:51 GMT
This entire thread is nothing but a complaint about Obama, followed by many more complaints about Obama. I forgot that I had to ask permission to add my opinion to this discussion. Hypocrisy at it's finest, @gajenny. Ridiculous. not everybody complained about Obama There was also a cordial discussion about flag protocol, but apparently you didn't read that part. That's fine, freecharlie. It still doesn't give @gajenny the right to tell me what threads I can post on and the content of my comments. If you put your opinion out there you must be prepared to take the responses given that aren't the same as yours.
I won't let someone like her (or you freecharlie) tell me where and when I can respond here. It totally negates one's opinion when they act pissy if someone doesn't agree with them.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 17, 2024 23:41:23 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2015 18:13:34 GMT
The thread did sort of take a left turn to discuss protocol of flag lowering. However if one wants to be honest the intent of the thread was a "gotcha"? against The President as demonstrated by 6 of the posters including the OP. The title says a lot.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 17, 2024 23:41:23 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2015 20:50:03 GMT
The thread did sort of take a left turn to discuss protocol of flag lowering. However if one wants to be honest the intent of the thread was a "gotcha"? against The President as demonstrated by 6 of the posters including the OP. The title says a lot. If one wants to be honest, you could read in my OP that I was on the fence about the flag being lowered...as much as I respect those that lost their lives in Chattanooga...the flag wasn't lowered for every other soldier killed by a terrorist. To wait 5 days seems insincere and I almost wished it would not have been lowered at all.
I don't really see where you're getting a "gotcha", but have at it. You see what you want to see. That's never been a secret.
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Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,978
Jun 25, 2014 20:07:06 GMT
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Post by Sarah*H on Jul 22, 2015 21:15:25 GMT
Everywhere else I have seen this topic broached, it has been by extreme conservatives using it to jab at the President so the assumption about the motivation behind this thread is not out of the blue. Given some of the responses, it seems like he was damned if he did and damned if he didn't. Since he's not running for office again, I'll take any opinion about his insincere motivations for doing so with a grain of salt. Yesterday the President happened to speak to the national VFW conference so maybe he heard some different points of view from the veterans with whom he met.
FWIW, my town issued a proclamation and lowered the flag TODAY so maybe they're insincere as well.
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