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Post by sunraynnc on Jul 24, 2015 21:54:17 GMT
Does this gross out anyone but me?
Newly constructed HS concession stand was built without a sink. How could that possibly pass health code?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2015 21:56:03 GMT
Grosses me out but it may not be against health code if they're only selling sealed food/drink and in no way preparing, handling or serving "open" food.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2015 21:56:11 GMT
Depends on what they are selling....prepackaged foods and drinks vs cooking at all? If they aren't cooking or prepping food, I am not sure it would be required. And our concession stands are in the middle of the bathrooms (Males on one side and females on the other), so very close sinks/bathrooms to wash hands if needed.
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Post by Zee on Jul 24, 2015 22:12:46 GMT
If it's only prepackaged things they probably don't need a sink of there are restrooms they can wash their hands in when necessary, to still pass the health code, but I agree I'd like a sink in there! Feels cleaner than a public toilet sink, though that of course all depends on who is working.
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Post by sunraynnc on Jul 24, 2015 22:15:11 GMT
Restrooms are up a hill (lots of stairs) & in the school. Not sure how they got around handicapped access.
Food is prepackaged, but they do sell personal pizzas prepared at a restaurant & kept in a warmer. (At least when I've worked.) Seems silly to construct the thing w/o a sink b/c they are limiting what they can sell.
There is hand sanitizer available. Nothing like hot, soapy water for washing hands and cleaning!
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TheOtherMeg
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Post by TheOtherMeg on Jul 24, 2015 22:15:24 GMT
The inability to wash hands, wipe down counters, rinse something, etc. makes me wonder WTH the planners were thinking. Sure, there are hand sanitizer dispensers and wet wipes, but not having a sink in a food serving area is bizarre.
The cost of appropriate amounts of sanitizer and wipes will end up costing way more than putting in a sink.
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Post by brina on Jul 24, 2015 22:21:54 GMT
The cost of appropriate amounts of sanitizer and wipes will end up costing way more than putting in a sink. That depends on the proximity of plumbing lines. If the nearest rest room is up a hill the cost of running pipes to the building location might far exceed revenues fora the foreseeable future even including wipes and sanitizer.
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Post by anonrefugee on Jul 24, 2015 22:22:40 GMT
Maybe a way to ensure it's a store, not a food preparation area subject to more extensive codes and routine inspections. Sometimes school officials have evaluated contingencies parents don't see or understand.
Let us hope.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2015 22:23:44 GMT
Restrooms are up a hill (lots of stairs) & in the school. Not sure how they got around handicapped access. Food is prepackaged, but they do sell personal pizzas prepared at a restaurant & kept in a warmer. (At least when I've worked.) Seems silly to construct the thing w/o a sink b/c they are limiting what they can sell. There is hand sanitizer available. Nothing like hot, soapy water for washing hands and cleaning! Are the pizzas already packaged up and kept in the warmer? Either way...it seems really, REALLY stupid with a side of poor planning to build a brand new area without something as simple and basic as a sink.
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Post by Woobster on Jul 24, 2015 22:26:17 GMT
This is probably the reason they didn't put one in. If there is no close plumbing access, it may cost a pretty penny to put a sink in.
I'm not saying it's right... I certainly would put a sink in a concession area. However, I can't say that I've ever specifically looked to see if a concession stand had a sink before buying food there. It just isn't something that crosses my mind.
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MsKnit
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Post by MsKnit on Jul 24, 2015 22:28:13 GMT
I'm trying very hard to be alright with this, if all the food is in their own sealed container & the pizza is in a box. But, dang, I can't imagine not having the ability to wash hands or wipe down counters. Only having hand sanitizer and wipes doesn't cut it in my mind.
Is this a secondary concession stand?
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Post by anonrefugee on Jul 24, 2015 22:31:29 GMT
Are drinks fountain drinks with ice, or bottles and cans?
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Post by sunraynnc on Jul 24, 2015 22:36:54 GMT
Pizzas are prepackaged.
The first time I worked in there I asked, " So, what man designed this w/o a sink?" The answer was that it was going to be too expensive to run water down and we are super proud of the hard work that went into this!" Can you imagine no restrooms at a football field?
I have issues w/ the AD, so it's making me hyper-critical. He has plenty of money to build a second concession stand at the baseball fields. (His pet sport.)
This is a Catholic HS & the parents here take "no" for an answer. I'm having trouble falling in line.
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Post by sunraynnc on Jul 24, 2015 22:39:47 GMT
MaIn concession stand, no outdoor restrooms.
Sodas are in cans.
I wish they had bitten the bullet & run water down there for restrooms & a sink before constructing a 2nd concession stand!
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MsKnit
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Post by MsKnit on Jul 24, 2015 22:44:13 GMT
MaIn concession stand, no outdoor restrooms. Sodas are in cans. I wish they had bitten the bullet & run water down there for restrooms & a sink before constructing a 2nd concession stand! You are speaking logic & common sense. I've yet to run across a school board that includes either of those things in decision making.
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TheOtherMeg
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Post by TheOtherMeg on Jul 24, 2015 22:44:06 GMT
The cost of appropriate amounts of sanitizer and wipes will end up costing way more than putting in a sink. That depends on the proximity of plumbing lines. If the nearest rest room is up a hill the cost of running pipes to the building location might far exceed revenues fora the foreseeable future even including wipes and sanitizer. It should have been seen as a CYA cost, if not a sanitary necessity. One case of food poisoning that can be traced to a shack that preps/sells food, yet doesn't even have running water, could lead to a lawsuit and/or people boycotting the food shack. There goes the money you saved by not providing running water. We had a snack bar near the JV track refurbished a couple years ago. There was a very short discussion about saving money by cutting off the water, as the lines were going to need to be moved as part of the refurb. Even the belt-tighteners around here realized that a food service location needs running water.
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Post by anonrefugee on Jul 24, 2015 22:44:32 GMT
Pizzas are prepackaged. The first time I worked in there I asked, " So, what man designed this w/o a sink?" The answer was that it was going to be too expensive to run water down and we are super proud of the hard work that went into this!" Can you imagine no restrooms at a football field? I have issues w/ the AD, so it's making me hyper-critical. He has plenty of money to build a second concession stand at the baseball fields. (His pet sport.) This is a Catholic HS & the parents here take "no" for an answer. I'm having trouble falling in line. Got it. Maybe I need to take back my thought about trusting their judgement! ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/5645536/images/MNrJDkDuSwqIMVw33MdD.jpg)
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Post by anonrefugee on Jul 24, 2015 22:52:29 GMT
That depends on the proximity of plumbing lines. If the nearest rest room is up a hill the cost of running pipes to the building location might far exceed revenues fora the foreseeable future even including wipes and sanitizer. It should have been seen as a CYA cost, if not a sanitary necessity. One case of food poisoning that can be traced to a shack that preps/sells food, yet doesn't even have running water, could lead to a lawsuit and/or people boycotting the food shack. There goes the money you saved by not providing running water. We had a snack bar near the JV track refurbished a couple years ago. There was a very short discussion about saving money by cutting off the water, as the lines were going to need to be moved as part of the refurb. Even the belt-tighteners around here realized that a food service location needs running water. But they are not prepping food, it's packaged and drinks are in cans. It's a limited hours shop. Most officials will look past selling pizza slices because they're not made in this location. Once booster clubs bring in crockpots, hot dog steamers and the popcorn machine it becomes food prep and CYA would have been a good idea. I'm not saying a sink is a bad idea, but if it was here they're going by code- until they actually prep something, serve fountain drinks, etc. Janitorial staff or volunteers can clean the counter before and after.
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Post by gramasue on Jul 24, 2015 23:08:34 GMT
I can't imagine serving food of any type and not having the facilities to wash hands and wipe off counter space. Can you set up one of those great big water jugs with a spout and maybe position it so it's over a bucket or something? Then you could at least provide a handwashing station of sorts.
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Post by Basket1lady on Jul 24, 2015 23:18:31 GMT
If you truly want it changed, get a group of parents together and voice your concerns. I'd also include a proposal for fundraising.
We serve team meals for the football teams. (Well, I used to. My son just graduated.) One of the meals was a Chick Fil A sandwich wrapped at the restaurant, a packet of chips, and a packet of cookies. One mama had a FIT that we served the kids without wearing gloves. We had all washed out hands and then used hand sanitizer, but this mama sent out email after email to all 100+ parents, CCing the coach and the AD. I've taken a professional food handlers class and we even have a professional chef on the team who explained it was within health code. Nope. The next meal, we were all wearing gloves.
For the record, I'm all for running water when food handling is involved. But I also think that CYA rules are taking over and some things get so expensive that they get pushed aside. Or money is spent unnecessarily because something COULD happen.
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Post by melanell on Jul 24, 2015 23:51:27 GMT
My guess is that with the budget they had, plumbing the building would eat up way too much of it, so they opted to work around it by selling the pre-packaged items.
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Post by fuji on Jul 25, 2015 0:00:42 GMT
The concession stand at our football field does not have running water either. I've worked in and visited lots and lots of concession stands over the past 15 years and very few have a sink. I usually see lots of hand sanitizer, wipes, and gloves.
I remember working on a committee for a new baseball field at one of our elementary schools. Some of us were passionate about putting in bathrooms with water. I was absolutely shocked to hear how much it would cost to do that. There was no way a school could afford/justify it.
I really don't think it's a big deal if food is not prepared there. Everything is usually prepackaged. If pizza or hot dogs are sold, the workers are usually wearing gloves.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2015 0:09:58 GMT
The concession stand at our football field does not have running water either. I've worked in and visited lots and lots of concession stands over the past 15 years and very few have a sink. I usually see lots of hand sanitizer, wipes, and gloves. I remember working on a committee for a new baseball field at one of our elementary schools. Some of us were passionate about putting in bathrooms with water. I was absolutely shocked to hear how much it would cost to do that. There was no way a school could afford/justify it. I really don't think it's a big deal if food is not prepared there. Everything is usually prepackaged. If pizza or hot dogs are sold, the workers are usually wearing gloves. I don't think handling pizza or hot dogs that aren't already sealed, in plastic, with no water, even if wearing gloves would fly with the health department.
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MerryMom
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Post by MerryMom on Jul 25, 2015 0:12:45 GMT
The cost to tie into a water or septic system can be very expensive depending on how far away the concession stand is from those lines: several thousand dollars
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TheOtherMeg
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Post by TheOtherMeg on Jul 25, 2015 0:59:41 GMT
Even though the pizza is made off-site, it's being handled on-site, and (ETA if I'm picturing this correctly) the pizzas aren't wrapped or anything. They're just being taken, by hand, out of a box and put on a plate.
I can understand (but it still squicks me out) canned/bottled drinks and factory-wrapped candy/treats being sold from a site that doesn't have running water, but anything "open" requires frequent hand and counter washing, IMO. With soap and running water.
I know running pipes to a relatively remote location is expensive. I've had similar work done at my house, and have been part of the planning team for projects that required running plumbing from one building to another. I get it. I just think a place that serves food should have running water, especially if it's serving anything other than canned, bottled, or factory-wrapped food/drink.
I assume the food shack in the OP is all done to code, but I disagree that it's the right way to go.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2015 1:12:31 GMT
Sounds like it isn't pizza by the slice, but actually small personal pizzas that are individually boxed (much like CFA sandwiches are individually packaged)....That's different than take a piece of pizza out of a box and putting it on a plate. Not as "open". But maybe the OP can confirm...
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Peal
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Post by Peal on Jul 25, 2015 1:35:49 GMT
I'm wondering if a winter climate has anything to do with it. How well is a concession stand insulated? Would the pipes freeze in the winter?
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Post by Lori McMud on Jul 25, 2015 1:44:49 GMT
The cost of appropriate amounts of sanitizer and wipes will end up costing way more than putting in a sink. That depends on the proximity of plumbing lines. If the nearest rest room is up a hill the cost of running pipes to the building location might far exceed revenues fora the foreseeable future even including wipes and sanitizer. That is why the concession stand at our baseball complex does not have running water - it was most prohibitive to run plumbing to the fields. We bring water to wipe up as needed.
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quiltz
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Post by quiltz on Jul 25, 2015 12:08:08 GMT
I'm wondering if climate has anything to do with it. How well is a concession stand insulated? Would the pipes freeze in the winter? Do you live in Ontaria? There could be a problem with insulation during the winter time.
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Post by yodutchess on Jul 25, 2015 15:05:17 GMT
Our original snack stand has no sink. The newer snack stand was built with adjacent bathrooms, so it has running water. We managed the original stand with prepackaged food and grilled food, also crock pot food. Crock pots went down on a golf cart after the game to the stand with water for cleaning. Some parents also brought thermoses / coolers of hot soapy water and cold water for rinsing. We had jugs of water so we could make coffee/tea, then the pots went down to the other stand. Many times we just brought them home to clean and took them back next game. We left the hot chocolate for the stand with the water. Too sticky.
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