~Susan~
Pearl Clutcher
You need to check your boobs, mine tried to kill me!!!
Posts: 3,259
Jul 6, 2014 17:25:32 GMT
|
Post by ~Susan~ on Aug 6, 2015 15:54:12 GMT
Very well written and thought provoking. I agree.
|
|
likescarrots
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,879
Aug 16, 2014 17:52:53 GMT
|
Post by likescarrots on Aug 6, 2015 16:01:03 GMT
To me, it has far less to do with the death of a known animal than it does with the behavior of the killer. If you have to kill an animal to feed your family, i get that. If an animal is terrorizing a neighborhood and needs to be taken care of, i get that too. But do it humainly. Don't shoot a 400 lb animal with a bow and arrow. Don't stand for pictures in front of its corpse with a huge grin on your face. People who kill animals for the fun of it are disgusting, and i think (at least for me), THAT is really what people are mad about.
|
|
|
Post by cakediva on Aug 6, 2015 16:03:01 GMT
This has crossed my mind often as I read a lot of the bits going up my Facebook wall....
|
|
|
Post by Darcy Collins on Aug 6, 2015 16:45:28 GMT
To me, it has far less to do with the death of a known animal than it does with the behavior of the killer. If you have to kill an animal to feed your family, i get that. If an animal is terrorizing a neighborhood and needs to be taken care of, i get that too. But do it humainly. Don't shoot a 400 lb animal with a bow and arrow. Don't stand for pictures in front of its corpse with a huge grin on your face. People who kill animals for the fun of it are disgusting, and i think (at least for me), THAT is really what people are mad about. I actually think there's an additional aspect which is paying $55,000 in the process. A lot of the comments on social media I've read, included a definite undercurrent of disgust with elitism for want for a better description.
|
|
|
Post by crimsoncat05 on Aug 6, 2015 17:40:38 GMT
so then why do people watch the Kardashians, etc. or any number of other television shows that are nothing more than elitism, and don't get outraged at that?? Why is hunting such a horrible activity but the obscene amount of money people spend on cars, pro sports, or any number of other things not cause for outrage?
|
|
maurchclt
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,646
Jul 4, 2014 16:53:27 GMT
|
Post by maurchclt on Aug 6, 2015 18:00:25 GMT
Interesting article, thanks for sharing.
|
|
|
Post by farmdpea on Aug 6, 2015 18:17:41 GMT
To me, it has far less to do with the death of a known animal than it does with the behavior of the killer. If you have to kill an animal to feed your family, i get that. If an animal is terrorizing a neighborhood and needs to be taken care of, i get that too. But do it humainly. Don't shoot a 400 lb animal with a bow and arrow. Don't stand for pictures in front of its corpse with a huge grin on your face. People who kill animals for the fun of it are disgusting, and i think (at least for me), THAT is really what people are mad about. I actually think there's an additional aspect which is paying $55,000 in the process. A lot of the comments on social media I've read, included a definite undercurrent of disgust with elitism for want for a better description. Yes, and the benevolent white man "helping" the plight of the poor Africans. Please...how many wells could be dug for $55,000?
|
|
AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,969
Jan 4, 2015 1:47:52 GMT
|
Post by AnotherPea on Aug 6, 2015 18:23:13 GMT
So, how much money have you (general) put directly into the hands of s poor African person? How many wells have you dug?
Where is the outrage about fancy charity dinners that cost $10K a plate to attend? Why not insist people skip the hair stylist, dress, limo and quartet and just "dig wells " with that money?
|
|
Dalai Mama
Drama Llama
La Pea Boheme
Posts: 6,985
Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
|
Post by Dalai Mama on Aug 6, 2015 18:31:14 GMT
This has crossed my mind often as I read a lot of the bits going up my Facebook wall.... I would trust the fact that if some American dentist went into Zimbabwe hunting people, there would be a far greater outcry.
|
|
|
Post by farmdpea on Aug 6, 2015 18:31:47 GMT
So, how much money have you (general) put directly into the hands of s poor African person? How many wells have you dug? Where is the outrage about fancy charity dinners that cost $10K a plate to attend? Why not insist people skip the hair stylist, dress, limo and quartet and just "dig wells " with that money? I dont care to post a dollar amount, but I have. I am am unfamiliar with such charity dinners, so I can't comment on that.
|
|
|
Post by Darcy Collins on Aug 6, 2015 18:44:39 GMT
The comments I've seen/read really weren't so high minded as the hunter should have dug wells with that $55,000 - it was more disgust with the reality that first someone would shoot the lion and second that they "wasted" $55,000 on it - clearly there's a monetary angle in the media as I had no need to go and google how much he spent, pretty much every single article I've read mentioned the dollar amount of the hunt. I'm not going to opine one why they're outraged with that and not the Kardashians as I've no clue - I still can't understand why people watch the show. And to answer AnotherPea - I have put quite a bit directly into the hands of poor Africans - in addition to my tourism dollars. I first went to Africa almost 15 years ago. The reality of poverty in other countries made a huge impact on me. I've regularly donated ever since - mostly to various medical oriented organizations who focus childhood vaccinations, but a few other ways as well. The medical infrastructure is so limited in many parts of the continent. I've been lucky enough to return a few times - and have volunteered both my time and money. Last time we visited, we brought our children and brought supplies for a school. It was hugely eye opening for my children to see the reality of even the FORTUNATE children who had families able to pay for the school fees and uniforms.
|
|
|
Post by birukitty on Aug 6, 2015 20:08:49 GMT
I think it's possible to care about animals and people at the same time. I do not "romanticize "animals. I understand biodiversity. I know that if we continue to destroy habitats and hunt animals to extinction, it will eventually lead to our extinction. So to me, caring about animals equals caring about people. This exactly. We have it in our capacity to care about more than one thing at a time. It is possible to care about the endangered animals in Africa, or those close to being endangered, and also care about the poor people in Africa. I certainly do! I contribute to Unicef because it's a charity that helps children with medical needs, food, and the most basic supplies to save their lives all over the world. I do what I can on a limited budget and hope to do more in the future. It breaks my heart to think about what the people go through in Africa. I often feel guilty to have such a "cushy" life living here in the USA while they have nothing and struggle to survive day by day. I don't watch shows about rich people like the Kardashians or anyone else like that because all I think about while watching it is "why does anyone need a house that huge? Just think how much you could give to a village in Africa if they sold it and bought a house that was a normal size?" Especially when one of them, can't remember who recently go married and spent multi-millions on a wedding. Multi millions on an event that lasted one day! Obviously it's their money to spend as they choose, I realize that. But I don't have to sit and watch those shows. Debbie in MD.
|
|
|
Post by crimsoncat05 on Aug 6, 2015 20:20:28 GMT
following that reasoning, then why can't someone spend any amount of money they choose on a once-in-a-lifetime trip that includes hunting? (not asking you for an answer specifically, birukitty, but the 'general you' who are opposed to hunting) Is it the act of hunting, or is it the money spent on it? If the dentist who shot the lion that was radio-collared did it innocently, thinking it truly was a legal hunt (I haven't been following the story, but let's suppose he thought all the rules were being followed) then what is really the object of the outrage? Killing a lion, period, or the money spent in doing it? Or on any safari-type hunt that I'm assuming costs thousands of dollars to do... eta: obviously, different people have different philosophical ideas about which animals 'can be' or 'should be' shot / hunted and why or why not, but if it's done legally and according to the rules and laws in the country where it's happening, is what I mean.
|
|
|
Post by birukitty on Aug 6, 2015 20:36:20 GMT
following that reasoning, then why can't someone spend any amount of money they choose on a once-in-a-lifetime trip that includes hunting? (not asking you for an answer specifically, birukitty, but the 'general you' who are opposed to hunting) Is it the act of hunting, or is it the money spent on it? If the dentist who shot the lion that was radio-collared did it innocently, thinking it truly was a legal hunt (I haven't been following the story, but let's suppose he thought all the rules were being followed) then what is really the object of the outrage? Killing a lion, period, or the money spent in doing it? Or on any safari-type hunt that I'm assuming costs thousands of dollars to do... eta: obviously, different people have different philosophical ideas about which animals 'can be' or 'should be' shot / hunted and why or why not, but if it's done legally and according to the rules and laws in the country where it's happening, is what I mean. Where do I begin? Well, my general outrage is that the African Lion is very close to being classified as Endangered. There are only 24,000 left in Africa.Personally I'd like to see none of them killed anymore unless absolutely necessary and then only in a humane manner. Normally on a legal hunt the money goes supposedly to the community unless there is corruption involved which in the case of Cecil being killed there was, so none of the $50,000 helped the African general public. The thing is Cecil brought in over $100,000 annually by visitors coming to see him. Just see him and photograph him. Not that he's dead that money disappears. People who are involved with trying to save the lions have said that more money (twice as much) is brought in and given to the African people by photo safaris and regular safaris than the money brought in by hunts. Again once a lion is killed that's it. That money that was earned by the hunt is earned only once whereas by saving the lion it can be earned on an annual basis. Debbie in MD.
|
|
anniebygaslight
Drama Llama
I'd love a cup of tea. #1966
Posts: 7,402
Location: Third Rock from the sun.
Jun 28, 2014 14:08:19 GMT
|
Post by anniebygaslight on Aug 6, 2015 21:26:52 GMT
Food for thought. We should be just as exercised by the human rights issues caused by the unspeakable Robert Mugabe as we did about the lion.
|
|
|
Post by monicad on Aug 6, 2015 21:39:14 GMT
I agree with him.
|
|
tuesdaysgone
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,832
Jun 26, 2014 18:26:03 GMT
|
Post by tuesdaysgone on Aug 6, 2015 21:45:38 GMT
Food for thought. We should be just as exercised by the human rights issues caused by the unspeakable Robert Mugabe as we did about the lion. This was along the lines of a conversation DH and I had late night. I deplore what this dentist did, but thousands of people suffer daily and it doesn't generate the outrage or even the empathy that the lion's death did. It's part of human nature (at least in Western thought) to more touched by animal suffering rather than human suffering.
|
|
|
Post by papersilly on Aug 6, 2015 21:51:36 GMT
Food for thought. We should be just as exercised by the human rights issues caused by the unspeakable Robert Mugabe as we did about the lion. This was along the lines of a conversation DH and I had late night. I deplore what this dentist did, but thousands of people suffer daily and it doesn't generate the outrage or even the empathy that the lion's death did. It's part of human nature (at least in Western thought) to more touched by animal suffering rather than human suffering. I think some people champion animal causes more than human causes because they think people can change their situation but animals cannot. I think some people think the answer is as simple as "get a job" or "don't have anymore kids" or "just move to where there is food" and the human suffering will solve itself. whereas animals are at the mercy of nature and humans so they need the championing. lastly, lions and other animals can be endangered or extinct. humans are not in danger of going extinct anytime soon so some people will save that which is more imminent to extinction.
|
|
|
Post by lovetodigi on Aug 6, 2015 21:54:03 GMT
That is one persons perspective. They do not speak for everyone from Zimbabwe, obviously, or there would not be criminal charges against the people involved. Different things affect different people differently. There are a lot of Americans that don't care about what happened to Cecil, it does not mean that the ones that do care are wrong. No matter how one feels about it, laws have been broken, therefore a wrong was committed.
|
|
|
Post by crimsoncat05 on Aug 6, 2015 22:02:46 GMT
"I think some people champion animal causes more than human causes because they think people can change their situation but animals cannot. I think some people think the answer is as simple as "get a job" or "don't have anymore kids" or "just move to where there is food" and the human suffering will solve itself. whereas animals are at the mercy of nature and humans so they need the championing."
^^^ I guess I can see this line of thinking, although I don't necessarily agree with it personally.
To me, this line of thinking is also why we as humans, have actually caused some of the animals' plight that necessitates hunting / responsible population management. We've moved into the areas where bears, wolves, moose, deer, raccoons, polar bears etc. historically lived, thus shrinking their habitat by our very presence; we put out what is in essence a smorgasbord buffet for them (gardens full of plants, dumpsters full of garbage, fields full of sheep, corn, etc.); we make it difficult for them to move where they need to in order to live by putting highways through their habitat. Then we still get outraged when they eat our plants, cause car accidents; cause injuries and damage to people and property; reproduce and over-populate to the point of starvation and thus need their numbers 'managed' but then we don't want to do what needs to be done to help fix the problem we, ourselves, have created: i.e., responsible herd management, culling the herds, allowing hunting to manage the population, let them have their habitat and/or prey, etc.
|
|
|
Post by freecharlie on Aug 7, 2015 0:40:33 GMT
following that reasoning, then why can't someone spend any amount of money they choose on a once-in-a-lifetime trip that includes hunting? (not asking you for an answer specifically, birukitty, but the 'general you' who are opposed to hunting) Is it the act of hunting, or is it the money spent on it? If the dentist who shot the lion that was radio-collared did it innocently, thinking it truly was a legal hunt (I haven't been following the story, but let's suppose he thought all the rules were being followed) then what is really the object of the outrage? Killing a lion, period, or the money spent in doing it? Or on any safari-type hunt that I'm assuming costs thousands of dollars to do... eta: obviously, different people have different philosophical ideas about which animals 'can be' or 'should be' shot / hunted and why or why not, but if it's done legally and according to the rules and laws in the country where it's happening, is what I mean. Where do I begin? Well, my general outrage is that the African Lion is very close to being classified as Endangered. There are only 24,000 left in Africa.Personally I'd like to see none of them killed anymore unless absolutely necessary and then only in a humane manner. Normally on a legal hunt the money goes supposedly to the community unless there is corruption involved which in the case of Cecil being killed there was, so none of the $50,000 helped the African general public. The thing is Cecil brought in over $100,000 annually by visitors coming to see him. Just see him and photograph him. Not that he's dead that money disappears. People who are involved with trying to save the lions have said that more money (twice as much) is brought in and given to the African people by photo safaris and regular safaris than the money brought in by hunts. Again once a lion is killed that's it. That money that was earned by the hunt is earned only once whereas by saving the lion it can be earned on an annual basis. Debbie in MD. Is Jericho too ugly to go see?
|
|
|
Post by crimsoncat05 on Aug 7, 2015 2:13:42 GMT
this is from a website called worldlionday.com:
"Today the lion is threatened with:
Habitat loss Prey loss Human-wildlife conflict Unsustainable trophy hunting practices Poaching Disease Inbreeding"
^^^
only two of the above issues have to do with hunting-- unsustainable trophy hunting practices, and poaching. The majority of the issues facing the African lion today have nothing directly to do with hunting. Inbreeding perhaps, but I would think that is also an issue of habitat loss and the inability of lions to travel as far as they used to be able to.
|
|
|
Post by lovetodigi on Aug 7, 2015 2:17:40 GMT
Where do I begin? Well, my general outrage is that the African Lion is very close to being classified as Endangered. There are only 24,000 left in Africa.Personally I'd like to see none of them killed anymore unless absolutely necessary and then only in a humane manner. Normally on a legal hunt the money goes supposedly to the community unless there is corruption involved which in the case of Cecil being killed there was, so none of the $50,000 helped the African general public. The thing is Cecil brought in over $100,000 annually by visitors coming to see him. Just see him and photograph him. Not that he's dead that money disappears. People who are involved with trying to save the lions have said that more money (twice as much) is brought in and given to the African people by photo safaris and regular safaris than the money brought in by hunts. Again once a lion is killed that's it. That money that was earned by the hunt is earned only once whereas by saving the lion it can be earned on an annual basis. Debbie in MD. Is Jericho too ugly to go see? Cecil was unique. He had a black mane, Jericho does not. That uniqueness brought in visitors with money.
|
|
|
Post by freecharlie on Aug 7, 2015 2:20:02 GMT
Is Jericho too ugly to go see? Cecil was unique. He had a black mane, Jericho does not. That uniqueness brought in visitors with money. I know he had a black mane and he was beautiful, but if you are going to pay to go to Africa and see a lion, is the black mane really the only thing that drew them?
|
|
|
Post by mrsscrapdiva on Aug 7, 2015 4:02:34 GMT
I worked for someone that was not American. He had not been in our country a long time but he said one thing he did not like or something that he had observed is how Americans romanticize everything. And I feel like the media just plays right into that.
|
|
|
Post by birukitty on Aug 7, 2015 16:56:57 GMT
Where do I begin? Well, my general outrage is that the African Lion is very close to being classified as Endangered. There are only 24,000 left in Africa.Personally I'd like to see none of them killed anymore unless absolutely necessary and then only in a humane manner. Normally on a legal hunt the money goes supposedly to the community unless there is corruption involved which in the case of Cecil being killed there was, so none of the $50,000 helped the African general public. The thing is Cecil brought in over $100,000 annually by visitors coming to see him. Just see him and photograph him. Not that he's dead that money disappears. People who are involved with trying to save the lions have said that more money (twice as much) is brought in and given to the African people by photo safaris and regular safaris than the money brought in by hunts. Again once a lion is killed that's it. That money that was earned by the hunt is earned only once whereas by saving the lion it can be earned on an annual basis. Debbie in MD. Is Jericho too ugly to go see? No, I never said that. As Lovetodigi said Cecil was unique due to his black mane. In general though in my last paragraph I did say that twice the amount of money is brought in by safaris and photo safaris by tourists coming to look at lions and to photograph them, then big game hunters paying a set fee to kill a lion once and there goes the source of revenue. Debbie in MD.
|
|
|
Post by *Scrapper*Stamper* on Aug 10, 2015 0:40:21 GMT
No pics, ands, buts about it I hope the son of a bitch that killed Cecil suffers the same painful demise!!! Trophy kills are no fucking EXCUSE to kill. Especially one that was being protected and allegedly "safe!!!!!!!!"
|
|
|
Post by *Scrapper*Stamper* on Aug 10, 2015 0:46:23 GMT
so then why do people watch the Kardashians, etc. or any number of other television shows that are nothing more than elitism, and don't get outraged at that?? Why is hunting such a horrible activity but the obscene amount of money people spend on cars, pro sports, or any number of other things not cause for outrage? Personally I do not watch shit such as the Kardashian's so I cannot answer your outrage question. I actually watch productive shows. I am absolutely outraged an innocent animal in a protected environment was lured out of his home and hunted down for forty miles so this worthless piece of shit could kill him for money!!!!
|
|
|
Post by originalvanillabean on Aug 10, 2015 3:30:54 GMT
Thank you for sharing!
|
|
saltymom
Junior Member
Posts: 73
Jun 25, 2014 21:44:44 GMT
|
Post by saltymom on Aug 14, 2015 5:41:28 GMT
My daughter in law is from Zimbabwe and she said this exact thing after the Cecil incident. She said she didn't even know who he was, and she grew up very near where he was. She said that big game trophy hunting stimulates the economy, and that's a good thing, considering everything that Mugabe has done to destroy his own country. The animal is hunted, the meat is given to the village and money streams into the country. She said she honestly couldn't believe all the fuss over the killing of the lion, and related it to the killing of a large dear or bear here. Interesting thoughts.
|
|