Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2015 18:03:41 GMT
My son is studying criminal justice and got this essay question.
You are on patrol and recieve a call about lewd behavior in a public restroom known as a pickup place for men. The person who made the report is still there. You enter the restroom and you find a fellow officer and your Sargeant ( both men and adult) kissing.
What do you do?
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Post by not2peased on Aug 11, 2015 18:04:59 GMT
I would do nothing-kissing isn't illegal
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2015 18:06:53 GMT
I would do exactly what I would do if it were two people I didn't know at all. In that case, kissing and presumably fully clothed, I expect that would be nothing.
ETA: I missed the part about the caller still being there. I suppose in that case, I would question them about what they had seen. If they had seen something beyond the kissing that would be in violation of public decency (or other) laws, then I'd proceed with whatever the process is for reporting illegal conduct by law enforcement officers. If the person just had their panties in a bunch because they were offended by two men kissing, I'd tell them there's nothing illegal about that and be done with it.
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MorningPerson
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Post by MorningPerson on Aug 11, 2015 18:09:39 GMT
You do whatever the protocol is for reporting fellow law enforcement personnel.
You do NOT walk away and do nothing.
(Upon re-thinking, is what the two are doing indeed lewd/illegal? Hmmm. Is that maybe the real question, as opposed to the fact that they're LEO? If that's the case, never mind, because my answer would be to find out first if it's illegal.)
ETA: Oops, see what I did there? I went all post-Sandusky Penn State on you and went straight to "do you still report something that you would normally report if you know the participants." Of course if they're just kissing they don't need to be reported.
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Post by lucyg on Aug 11, 2015 18:09:41 GMT
What does the complainant still being there have to do with it? ETA oh, I figured that out. There's a witness to how you handle it! d'oh ...
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Post by annabella on Aug 11, 2015 18:10:46 GMT
You know this is hard to answer because we don't understand the dynamics of working in a police department. Plus the added issue of the relationship between the Sargent and his subordinate.
Me I would say "Hi Sargent, I got a call about lewd behavior in this bathroom, did you see anything." No, cool bye. lol I would just be giving him a polite heads up that people have complained and he needs to wrap things up and never come back here again.
However that could lead to the Sargent either ignoring me in the prescient and things being awkward or the Sargent punishing me with grunt work.
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valleyview
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Post by valleyview on Aug 11, 2015 18:11:13 GMT
What's the law defining lewd behavior say? You would need to define that to the caller and the men. If it's a ticket offense, then write the ticket. They can appear in court to protest.
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Dalai Mama
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Post by Dalai Mama on Aug 11, 2015 18:11:17 GMT
I would do my very best not to lose my shit on the guy who wasted my time.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2015 18:11:57 GMT
That but maybe have a discreet word about keeping things a little more private in future. Also ask them if they'd remembered to flush and wash their hands?
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lesley
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Post by lesley on Aug 11, 2015 18:14:53 GMT
I would do my very best not to lose my shit on the guy who wasted my time. , and I would definitely not gossip when I got back to the police station.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2015 18:16:30 GMT
What does the complainant still being there have to do with it? I think that it is part of the question so the responding officer would have to do something.
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Post by lucyg on Aug 11, 2015 18:17:18 GMT
and btw, the correct spelling is sergeant.
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Mary Kay Lady
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Post by Mary Kay Lady on Aug 11, 2015 18:17:20 GMT
I would do nothing-kissing isn't illegal Kissing isn't illegal. But fraternization, I think, would be discouraged or forbidden. It would be no different than if the officer walked into an office and found a police Sargent having sex with a patrol officer. I'm thinking that it's against policy and should be reported.
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Post by lucyg on Aug 11, 2015 18:17:41 GMT
What does the complainant still being there have to do with it? I think that it is part of the question so the responding officer would have to do something. I just figured that out. I'm a little slow on the uptake.
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Post by littlemama on Aug 11, 2015 18:22:14 GMT
Ask the witness what he had seen, ask the 2 parties what they were doing. If it is illegal, write appropriate citations, if it is not, then let the witness know that no law had been broken. If the participants are in uniform, advise them that they may want to find a different location for their amorous activities (because they are representing the department if they are in uniform, not because of their gender). If fraternization is against department rules, report to the higher ups.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2015 18:25:58 GMT
and btw, the correct spelling is sergeant. Yes, and I fixed it.
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Post by camanddanismom on Aug 11, 2015 18:27:09 GMT
Adults, kissing, not lewd. I would do nothing. However, I would question the witness. Because they are just kissing now, doesn't mean they were not doing something else prior to my arrival. Depending of the reporting structure of the fellow officer (was it also his sergeant?), there could be issues there, but not legal issues, departmental. I would imagine there are specific laws, codes of conduct and procedures that would be addressed in the essay that I am not aware of.
Interesting!!
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grinningcat
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Post by grinningcat on Aug 11, 2015 18:32:56 GMT
Since when is kissing a lewd or illegal behaviour?
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AnotherPea
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Jan 4, 2015 1:47:52 GMT
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Post by AnotherPea on Aug 11, 2015 18:33:16 GMT
My son is studying criminal justice and got this essay question. You are on patrol and recieve a call about lewd behavior in a public restroom known as a pickup place for men. The person who made the report is still there. You enter the restroom and you find a fellow officer and your Sargeant ( both men and adult) kissing. What do you do? Answering before reading ahead because it's more fun that way...
I'd back out slowly and hope neither man saw me. If I was seen, I'd give a quick head nod and then retreat. I'd say nothing. But if Sarge was a butthole and happened to be married, I'd keep that information in my back pocket.
I would like clarification though - are the guys on duty? Because there is something wrong with cops playing tickle when they should be out patrolling the streets. Otherwise, none of my business.
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Post by moveablefeast on Aug 11, 2015 18:39:04 GMT
If a crime was committed, I would report the crime.
If a contractual ethics violation was committed, I would report the violation.
If it was neither, I would keep the information to myself.
If asked, I would tell te truth.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2015 18:44:33 GMT
I posted the question as it was given. So no more background , sorry.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2015 18:44:28 GMT
Besides the fact that I would find it extremely odd that two men that would obviously know each other would be meeting in a public restroom known as a hook up place rather than in the privacy of one of their homes or at least a more secluded location, I would have to also know if they are off-duty or in uniform.
I'm going to assume that PDA just as kissing, even in a known hook up spot, isn't considered lewd or illegal by any law, so I would handle it the same way I would handle any other incident like that.
Fraternization and/or being on duty (if so) are other issues that don't really involve the original complainant, but I would still feel duty bound to report it (if that was department policy)
(On the other hand, if I just happened to accidentally find out that the two men were having a discreet relationship against policy, I probably would turn my head the other way)
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Post by gmcwife1 on Aug 11, 2015 18:53:01 GMT
My son is studying criminal justice and got this essay question. You are on patrol and recieve a call about lewd behavior in a public restroom known as a pickup place for men. The person who made the report is still there. You enter the restroom and you find a fellow officer and your Sargeant ( both men and adult) kissing. What do you do? Very interesting question given the spotlight on the police right now and how they seem to turn their backs on their own behavior/mis-behavior! My first thought was what is the policy on fraternizing within the department. At some workplaces you have very strict policies on who can date who based on positions within the company.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2015 19:05:45 GMT
Very interesting question given the spotlight on the police right now and how they seem to turn their backs on their own behavior/mis-behavior! My first thought was what is the policy on fraternizing within the department. At some workplaces you have very strict policies on who can date who based on positions within the company.This I think is important. In your average job situation, many employees meet and date people they work with. One office I knew of had a whole sub culture of people who met spouses at work. This lead to lots of marriages and children. (There was only one breakup that I knew of). However, this is a different culture. Law enforcement and military might have rules and regulations about who can date whom. I just don't know...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2015 19:06:52 GMT
The correct response is:
To follow procedure of your department. Or file the report
I thought the responses that my son's law enforcement friends were very insightful to the inner workings of agencies.
Most of their replies were : Quit, you are in a no win situation.
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Post by M~ on Aug 11, 2015 19:09:05 GMT
My son is studying criminal justice and got this essay question. You are on patrol and recieve a call about lewd behavior in a public restroom known as a pickup place for men. The person who made the report is still there. You enter the restroom and you find a fellow officer and your Sargeant ( both men and adult) kissing. What do you do? At the time of my arrival, they were kissing, which may or may not be defined as lewd behavior in that particular jurisdiction; however, the behavior that was reported ostensibly occurred BEFORE I arrived. If they had engaged in lewd behavior then, I would do whatever is required of me: citation, ticket, fine, whatever. I think the fact that they are both law enforcement personnel is immaterial. I also think the issue of fraternization would be outside of the scope of the question.
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Post by Zee on Aug 11, 2015 19:10:12 GMT
Are they both on duty? I guess since there's a witness I'd have to notify my and their supervisor? However this is normally handled. And tell them to be more discreet. Same answer if it was a male and female officer.
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georgiapea
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Post by georgiapea on Aug 11, 2015 19:13:52 GMT
Because kissing often leads to 'other things', there may be a city ordinance about PDA in public restrooms. I would think that today's police handbooks would cover this.
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Post by gmcwife1 on Aug 11, 2015 19:13:49 GMT
Very interesting question given the spotlight on the police right now and how they seem to turn their backs on their own behavior/mis-behavior! My first thought was what is the policy on fraternizing within the department. At some workplaces you have very strict policies on who can date who based on positions within the company.This I think is important. In your average job situation, many employees meet and date people they work with. One office I knew of had a whole sub culture of people who met spouses at work. This lead to lots of marriages and children. (There was only one breakup that I knew of). However, this is a different culture. Law enforcement and military might have rules and regulations about who can date whom. I just don't know... Very good call on how and where my mind went dh is retired military and now works at the jail. So I just naturally went in that direction based on what I've been around most of my life!
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Post by Tamhugh on Aug 11, 2015 19:17:47 GMT
Are they on duty at the time? Still in uniform? I would probably file a report if they were. Not because it is lewd, but because they would most likely be breaking rules about behavior on duty/in uniform. I would also get a statement from the witness and if kissing was all they saw, I would have a hard time taking them seriously. Also, I would wonder what the witness was doing hanging out in a bathroom that is known for male/male hookups if he is so offended by men kissing.
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