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Post by crazy4scraps on Aug 28, 2015 15:05:45 GMT
(I'm off to work. Thanks for the great discussion. Tak, tack, tacc, takk...taco?) I agree. And now I'm hungry for tacos! ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/5645536/images/OrTI4SBmZ2ZYSFv6ag4f.jpg)
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Post by rainangel on Aug 28, 2015 15:24:19 GMT
(I'm off to work. Thanks for the great discussion. Tak, tack, tacc, takk...taco?) I agree. And now I'm hungry for tacos! ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/5645536/images/OrTI4SBmZ2ZYSFv6ag4f.jpg) And today we here in Norway eat our traditional fredagstaco (Fridaytaco's). Seriously. It's the most common thing to eat on Fridays in Norway. We are SO multicultural ![:2thumbsup:](//storage.proboards.com/5645536/images/zKsqKGInldFvtmx415J3.jpg)
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Post by Lindarina on Aug 28, 2015 16:09:29 GMT
I'm late to the party as usual ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png) I agree with the other peas. Television was never dubbed in Norway when I grew up, we had Norwegian subtitles. That probably helped a lot with the language skills of my generation. Norway being a small country, and Europe being a continent with many different countries means that Norwegians and Europeans often have to interact with people who speak a different language than themselves. English has become that common language. Most people I know end up speaking some english during the work day, and practicing a little every day is better than learning in chunks ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/5645536/images/MNrJDkDuSwqIMVw33MdD.jpg) And last but not least, most of us are Anglophiles. We just can't get enough of British humor
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Post by vspindler on Aug 28, 2015 16:12:46 GMT
I wish I could speak Norwegian! "Uff da" "lefse" "lutefisk" "Syttende Mai" "Nisse" and "velkommen" are pretty much the extent of my Norwegian vocabulary.
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Post by Lindarina on Aug 28, 2015 16:30:59 GMT
I wish I could speak Norwegian! "Uff da" "lefse" "lutefisk" "Syttende Mai" "Nisse" and "velkommen" are pretty much the extent of my Norwegian vocabulary. I loved watching Fargo, hearing everyone say "uff da". I say it all the time myself ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png)
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mallie
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by mallie on Aug 28, 2015 16:47:37 GMT
Here's my take on this. English is pretty much a universal language due to business and the reach of our entertainment (TV, movies, music). Fluency in a language is predicated on use. I started Spanish in grade school. However, when I moved out of my predominantly Hispanic city in 5th grade Spanish was no longer offered. I took 3 years of French in high school but no way to immerse myself and become fluent. I learned Arabic in the military and it was immersion training. By the time I finished school I dreamt and took notes in Arabic. That was 25 years ago and I don't use it and have lost it. Exactly. With language, you use it or you lose it. So for all the gnashing of teeth about the US failing to require early and long-term foreign language fluency, retention of fluency requires using the language regularly, the skill will evaporate. To be honest, the most useful language I ever took in a school setting was Latin (NYS Regents Diploma back in the day -- we took Latin at that high school. Period. No exceptions). I have mucked around the European countries with romance languages very well with that Latin, much of which I did retain because it forms the basis of so much vocabulary, etc. I actually sent a note to the daughter of my late Latin teacher telling her that her mother was right when she said that Latin would actually serve us well. It did.
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Post by rainangel on Aug 28, 2015 19:11:35 GMT
I wish I could speak Norwegian! "Uff da" "lefse" "lutefisk" "Syttende Mai" "Nisse" and "velkommen" are pretty much the extent of my Norwegian vocabulary. But extremely important phrases to know for survival in Norway!
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Post by vspindler on Aug 28, 2015 19:28:14 GMT
If I had to choose between not surviving and eating lutefisk I might take not surviving lol! But lefse.....I do love lefse.
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Post by penny on Aug 28, 2015 19:37:55 GMT
The situation in Finland is similar - television isn't dubbed, great educational system, awareness that English is quite often the language used for business, small number of Finnish speakers, etc...
Friends that are Finnish-Swedes (viewed as an ethnic group, they identify Swedish as their mother language), seem to be the most comfortable speaking English... They say they see similarities between Swedish and English that make it easier for them to learn English - that Swedish acts as a bit of a bridge between Finnish and English...
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Post by Karene on Aug 28, 2015 20:00:39 GMT
My grandparents came to Canada from Denmark in 1925. My grandfather could speak 4 languages: Danish, English, German and French. And this was just after the turn of the century. The funny thing was that we hardly ever heard him talk! He was a very quiet man. My grandmother spoke Danish and English. I don't know if she knew English before coming to Canada. My father learned Danish as a kid and living in northern Quebec, also learned French as well as English but he lost his Danish and French after leaving Quebec. I still have lots of my dad's cousins living in Denmark especially on the farm on the island of Bornholm that has been in the family since the early 1700s. One of my dad's cousins wrote a family history for us in English when she was in her 80s. I corresponded with her quite a bit because I am the family historian over here.
My husband's parents came over from Germany in 1951. They could only speak German when they arrived but soon learned fluent English. They will speak to their sons in German (it's actually a village dialect no longer spoken) but their sons have always spoken English back. My husband can understand some German speaking people perfectly and others he cannot understand a thing they say.
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Post by Zee on Aug 28, 2015 20:17:39 GMT
I recently commented on this very topic while watching Lillyhammer with my DH. Everyone on that show is easier to understand than most everyone on British TV unless they have a posh accent, lol! I swear I need subtitles while watching done of those shows. And they switch up often between both languages. I've noticed that on other Scandinavian shows, and wasn't quite sure if that was just for TV or if that's pretty true to life. I don't feel I'm missing out by not knowing another language, though. I'd find Spanish helpful but I'm more than happy living in a world where English is standard ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/5645536/images/OrTI4SBmZ2ZYSFv6ag4f.jpg)
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Post by miominmio on Aug 28, 2015 21:00:30 GMT
I wish I could speak Norwegian! "Uff da" "lefse" "lutefisk" "Syttende Mai" "Nisse" and "velkommen" are pretty much the extent of my Norwegian vocabulary. But extremely important phrases to know for survival in Norway! Don't forget "skål"!
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Post by miominmio on Aug 28, 2015 21:02:02 GMT
If I had to choose between not surviving and eating lutefisk I might take not surviving lol! But lefse.....I do love lefse. I agree! But smalahove is even worse....
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Post by rainangel on Aug 28, 2015 21:11:25 GMT
I recently commented on this very topic while watching Lillyhammer with my DH. Everyone on that show is easier to understand than most everyone on British TV unless they have a posh accent, lol! I swear I need subtitles while watching done of those shows. And they switch up often between both languages. I've noticed that on other Scandinavian shows, and wasn't quite sure if that was just for TV or if that's pretty true to life. I don't feel I'm missing out by not knowing another language, though. I'd find Spanish helpful but I'm more than happy living in a world where English is standard ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/5645536/images/OrTI4SBmZ2ZYSFv6ag4f.jpg) Lillyhammer is an awesome show ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png) Of course Norwegians are portrayed as a lot more naïve than what we actually are, but it's great tv. When I was living in Australia, my (now)ex-husband couldn't fathom that I could be on the phone to my mother, speaking Norwegian, and also giving him directions in English in the middle of all the Norwegian. I guess I am so familiar with both languages now that switching between them ain't no thang ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/5645536/images/Q_m8lDOvc_3Le3r1GKdf.jpg) I can see how Spanish would be good to know. That, and Chinese. If you speak English, Chinese and Spanish you could probably communicate with 75% of the population.
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Post by rainangel on Aug 28, 2015 21:14:04 GMT
If I had to choose between not surviving and eating lutefisk I might take not surviving lol! But lefse.....I do love lefse. I agree! But smalahove is even worse.... What? Blasphemy! But I am a West Coast girl, overly salted sheep is my favourite! Pinnakjøtt!!! I tried lutefisk for the first time a few years ago, and it's not actually that bad! With the mushy peas and the bacon and mustardsauce, you barely notice the fish in it ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png) But fish fermented in lye... yeah... it's pretty messed up.
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Post by miominmio on Aug 28, 2015 21:19:23 GMT
I agree! But smalahove is even worse.... What? Blasphemy! But I am a West Coast girl, overly salted sheep is my favourite! Pinnakjøtt!!! I tried lutefisk for the first time a few years ago, and it's not actually that bad! With the mushy peas and the bacon and mustardsauce, you barely notice the fish in it *shudder*
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Post by rainangel on Aug 28, 2015 21:22:19 GMT
What? Blasphemy! But I am a West Coast girl, overly salted sheep is my favourite! Pinnakjøtt!!! I tried lutefisk for the first time a few years ago, and it's not actually that bad! With the mushy peas and the bacon and mustardsauce, you barely notice the fish in it *shudder* Pyse ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/5645536/images/OrTI4SBmZ2ZYSFv6ag4f.jpg)
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AmeliaBloomer
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Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Aug 28, 2015 22:00:08 GMT
And funny story: I was in London with my sister (we speak english with each other, she has a pretty British accent since she lived in Exeter) and I bumped into this woman by accident. I apologized, but then I heard her murmur something about "annoying americans"!! What the what?!? Must be all that HBO I've been watching Ay! Su ingles es excelente tambien. Gonna' lump you in with the Norwegians. LOL at the "annoying Americans" incident. Trying to figure out the HBO influence: 1. Watch HBO ---> develop American accent ---> Brit misidentifies you and blames your clumsiness/rudeness on your (supposed) "Typical-American"ism or... 2. Watch HBO ---> develop neanderthal American ways ---> hence, bump into people indiscriminately. If the latter, what HBO shows are you watching? ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/5645536/images/OrTI4SBmZ2ZYSFv6ag4f.jpg)
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pyccku
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Jun 27, 2014 23:12:07 GMT
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Post by pyccku on Aug 29, 2015 2:59:00 GMT
As a language teacher, I'm curious about the actual methods used. Just being in a language class doesn't lead to fluency. I have a degree I. Russian, but absolutely can't speak it.
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tincin
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Post by tincin on Aug 29, 2015 3:30:56 GMT
Some days it is all I can do to handle English, the only language I know. I am both envious and impressed by people who know more than one language. My hat's off to all of you who do.
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Post by lisacharlotte on Aug 29, 2015 3:43:58 GMT
pyccku I learned Arabic in 47 weeks. 6 hours a day/ 5 days a week with native speaker instructors. To graduate we had to read, write and speak. Speaking was the hardest. It was brutal studying for a year.
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Post by miominmio on Aug 29, 2015 4:15:40 GMT
Pyse ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/5645536/images/OrTI4SBmZ2ZYSFv6ag4f.jpg) Heeeeeelt greit ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png)
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Post by Lindarina on Aug 29, 2015 8:24:18 GMT
As a language teacher, I'm curious about the actual methods used. Just being in a language class doesn't lead to fluency. I have a degree I. Russian, but absolutely can't speak it. I think most of the learning happens outside the classroom I'm afraid. The students learn the basics at school, but then they practice english daily through television, movies, watching youtube videoes, online chatting when gaming and speaking some english with friends.
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Post by rainangel on Aug 29, 2015 8:36:47 GMT
As a language teacher, I'm curious about the actual methods used. Just being in a language class doesn't lead to fluency. I have a degree I. Russian, but absolutely can't speak it. Exposure. 24/7. I grew up with about 75% of the shows I watched being in English (British or American). Not that 75% of the shows on tv were in English, but the ones I watched was. If we went to the movies, chances are it was an American movie. Add to that, the music I was listening to was probably a ratio of 90% in English, 10% in Norwegian. Add to that, English classes several times a week, which also meant homework and reading assignments in English. Today, Norway is even more immersed in American culture. Especially with the internet around, communicating with people on message boards, through online games etc... people are pretty good at it. So much so, that there are people who are quite annoyed with our 'Americanization'. But I argue that we are influenced by a LOT of cultures, not just the American one. English is just the common language we all speak. But Americans are damned good at advertising their culture and way of life. Through tv-shows, movies and music. Anyway, my point is; if you are surrounded by English all through the day it becomes a natural part of you to understand it, and to communicate in it. If you moved to Russia and were surrounded by the Russian language, it would become natural for you aswell. Even if you only spoke in English to people around you in the beginning, how long do you think it would take before it would be natural for you to start speaking Russian to them? A few weeks, or a couple of months maybe? I am assuming those of you who live in predominantly hispanic towns/areas have a pretty decent grasp of Spanish, no? Even if it is in the US?
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Post by rainangel on Aug 29, 2015 8:50:49 GMT
As a language teacher, I'm curious about the actual methods used. Just being in a language class doesn't lead to fluency. I have a degree I. Russian, but absolutely can't speak it. Have you tried listening to music with Russian lyrics, and watching Russian television? Maybe even something as simple as 'Friends' dubbed in Russian if that exists? That would help you with context and you would be exposed to fluency in speaking.
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Deleted
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Jun 18, 2024 12:49:13 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2015 10:00:59 GMT
I am in total agreement with others that you learn and retain your multilingual skills through exposure. I knew a smattering of Arabic before we moved to Morocco that I learned from my husband, but Moroccans have their own dialect, so it was different than what my husband spoke. Also, government and commercial businesses operate in French. It is essential to know both languages here. There is a big push to learn English as well.
i also took a couple of years of Latin in high school and a couple of years of Spanish. As the previous poster said, having the basis of Latin down has really helped me to pick up languages much quicker.
I teach English here to 4th - 6th graders (as their Third language) and the textbooks I am required to use are British English based. So as a Southern gal, it has been interesting to say the least. I am taking French classes and I am finding it a real challenge. The sentence structure is different and having to know when to use the male/feminine syntax drives me insane. I am actually much more fluent in Arabic, which I have learned all from exposure. But I have a friendly jealousy to those that are fluent in French.
Very interesting thread!!!
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Post by mrst on Aug 29, 2015 10:31:52 GMT
I'm English living in Catalonia in northern Spain. I really struggle with anything other than basic castilian or catalan. Most of the locals love to practice their English and want to speak English to me. I sometimes feel I should try harder but I'm not really sure how. I've done both castilliano and catalan lessons and do ok but its the break through into chatting I just can't do!
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Post by saralovesducks on Aug 29, 2015 10:50:10 GMT
And funny story: I was in London with my sister (we speak english with each other, she has a pretty British accent since she lived in Exeter) and I bumped into this woman by accident. I apologized, but then I heard her murmur something about "annoying americans"!! What the what?!? Must be all that HBO I've been watching Ay! Su ingles es excelente tambien. Gonna' lump you in with the Norwegians. LOL at the "annoying Americans" incident. Trying to figure out the HBO influence: 1. Watch HBO ---> develop American accent ---> Brit misidentifies you and blames your clumsiness/rudeness on your (supposed) "Typical-American"ism or... 2. Watch HBO ---> develop neanderthal American ways ---> hence, bump into people indiscriminately. If the latter, what HBO shows are you watching? ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/5645536/images/OrTI4SBmZ2ZYSFv6ag4f.jpg) You crack me up!! xD I'm guessing it was 1. My "American" accent. Or 2. Too much Game of Thrones. And Girls. Who knows What a compliment to lump me in with the Norwegians. And you speak Spanish too?! Wow!
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Deleted
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Jun 18, 2024 12:49:13 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2015 11:13:10 GMT
I'm English living in Catalonia in northern Spain. I really struggle with anything other than basic castilian or catalan. Most of the locals love to practice their English and want to speak English to me. I sometimes feel I should try harder but I'm not really sure how. I've done both castilliano and catalan lessons and do ok but its the break through into chatting I just can't do! OMG! Happens to me a lot here in Morocco where I will "attempt" to practice my French or speak Arabic and many people will quickly ask if I am British. When I tell them I am American they try to speak English as they want to practice. Same with almost all my expat friends here. We joke about never becoming fluent in the other languages because too many people want to try and speak English! Lol
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pyccku
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Jun 27, 2014 23:12:07 GMT
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Post by pyccku on Aug 29, 2015 13:16:34 GMT
I'm not interested in learning Russian, I've been teaching French for 20 years and that's what I'll do until I retire. I don't have a degree in French - but I do speak it fluently.
The curiosity is about how it is taught in classrooms. I know that immersion/exposure is the key - but I also can't control what my students do outside of class. I see them for 55 minutes a day, 5 days a week for 36 weeks. It's not possible to become fluent in that time alone, even if they take the class for 4 years. But I do want them to have a certain amount of proficiency.
I use TPRS frequently, lots of comprehensible input...with a little bit of grammar explanation and practice. I try to expose the kids to other uses of the language, in the hopes that if they see interesting options they will choose to use it more frequently than just during my class. We watch music videos and listen to current songs. We watched a Cyprien video yesterday. I've had kids tell me that they've downloaded our weekly songs and have been listening, or some who wanted to know how to spell Cyprien so they can watch more on their own time. I was curious as to what methods are used in English classrooms in Scandinavia, as the results are generally better than what we see in other places. So they are taught "the basics" in school - but what exactly are "the basics"? What is the focus? Translating from English? Practicing speaking? Giving them long lists of vocab to memorize? Or just exposing them to the language?
Language teaching in the US is slowly changing from grammar/translation (which never leads to fluency without other factors, such as exposure and immersion) to a more functional approach. Less focus on verb conjugations and spelling, more focus on actually communicating and using the language for practical purposes. Which is a good thing. I get really tired and sad hearing people say "I took French for __ years in high school and I can't speak a word of it!" I want my students to be able to USE it. Nobody would trust a math teacher if their students said "I took math for 10 years and can't add even simple sums!" and yet we hear it all the time in languages.
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