AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama

Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Sept 19, 2015 2:01:02 GMT
It's just stunning that this persists. We look like idiots. This is kind of a "Do you still beat your wife?" discussion landmine, so for the record, I couldn't care less if we had a Muslim president, but I think we need to assume that many people would view it as a negative. Oh, and 20% still do not believe he was born in the United States. Nine percent claim they have evidence. Heh. Oy.Of course, this is the same country where 42 percent of Americans believe God created humans in their present form 10,000 years ago. Among industrialized countries, I think we still have a few more evolution-believers than Turkey, but I'd have to check.
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tincin
Drama Llama

Posts: 5,415
Jul 25, 2014 4:55:32 GMT
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Post by tincin on Sept 19, 2015 2:03:52 GMT
I'm wondering how those people feel about Santa and the Easter Bunny? Apparently they aren't real quick on the uptake.
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Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,098
Jun 25, 2014 20:07:06 GMT
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Post by Sarah*H on Sept 19, 2015 2:10:34 GMT
It's time to stop pussyfooting around. We ARE idiots.
I'm only sort of being facetious. False equivalencies, lack of logical reasoning, inability to put together coherent arguments, science denial, bad grammar, poor spelling... I've always been a huge proponent of public education but as I look at the things my cohort posts on social media, I can't help but think we've failed in a big way.
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valleyview
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,816
Jun 27, 2014 18:41:26 GMT
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Post by valleyview on Sept 19, 2015 2:17:27 GMT
I'm not sure which is worse - that Americans believe that President Obama is a foreign born Muslim, or that there's a continuing need to poll Americans about it.
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Post by bluepoprocks on Sept 19, 2015 2:31:44 GMT
I know so many people who believe that it makes me want to cry. I stopped arguing with them a long time ago. I was wasting my breath. These are the same people who believe that we never landed on the moon. They also believe the US government was responsible for the 9-11 attack. They also believe Sandy Hook was staged and that no children were killed. They think it was staged so that guns could be taken away from Americans. So I'm surrounded by all kinds of crazy people here.
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Post by Merge on Sept 19, 2015 2:33:01 GMT
Trump voters, one and all.
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Post by anxiousmom on Sept 19, 2015 3:04:26 GMT
I saw this earlier this week and have been stewing about it since. Icing on the cake was last night with the man at the Donald Trump rally who made the comment that President Obama was not only a Muslim, but not even American.
I get that people don't like him, I really do-but to keep on believing these things in the face of evidence to the contrary is so absolutely beyond my understanding. I find myself sputtering and mumbling as I try to articulate just how bewildered I am with this kind of thinking. I can't even find the words because it is so wrong thinking.
It's all bread and circuses.
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scrapaddie
Drama Llama

Posts: 5,090
Jul 8, 2014 20:17:31 GMT
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Post by scrapaddie on Sept 19, 2015 3:32:57 GMT
It's time to stop pussyfooting around. We ARE idiots. I'm only sort of being facetious. False equivalencies, lack of logical reasoning, inability to put together coherent arguments, science denial, bad grammar, poor spelling... I've always been a huge proponent of public education but as I look at the things my cohort posts on social media, I can't help but think we've failed in a big way. In the US public education is a ''have to ' rather than a 'get to'. Many students sit in class for 12 years and spend more time getting out of work then doing work. The opportunity to learn is there, but no one will learn without effort . In many countries the ability to continue onto the upper grades is a privilege. Not all students are able to complete the upper grades. Instead , They are channeled into trades. In the US, students do you have an opportunity to learn a trade in the upper grades, but too many students think they are going on to college even when They have put absolutely no effort into their own education so far. I also am leery of polls until I hear how they are taken. Anybody can take a pool that will support any position they want to support. It's kind of like the old "statistics don't lie but liars make statistics ". A quote I used back in my debate days.
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paget
Drama Llama

Posts: 7,461
Jun 25, 2014 21:16:39 GMT
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Post by paget on Sept 19, 2015 4:05:27 GMT
It's just stunning that this persists. We look like idiots. This is kind of a "Do you still beat your wife?" discussion landmine, so for the record, I couldn't care less if we had a Muslim president, but I think we need to assume that many people would view it as a negative. Oh, and 20% still do not believe he was born in the United States. Nine percent claim they have evidence. Heh. Oy.Of course, this is the same country where 42 percent of Americans believe God created humans in their present form 10,000 years ago. Among industrialized countries, I think we still have a few more evolution-believers than Turkey, but I'd have to check. Sigh. I really should just back away from this one but what the hell. 1. I'm a republican (or combo republic/libertarian) 2. I've never thought Obama was Muslim- and even if he was so what? It wouldn't matter to me at all. 3. I've never given a crap about the birth stuff- ridiculous 4. I am amazed so many people believe that- not sure I trust those polls. 5. I was on your side until you threw in your jab about people still believing God made humans in their present form 10,000 years ago. Check. I believe that so apparently that makes me a freak. Noted.
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ComplicatedLady
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,182
Location: Valley of the Sun
Jul 26, 2014 21:02:07 GMT
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Post by ComplicatedLady on Sept 19, 2015 4:05:50 GMT
I'm not sure which is worse - that Americans believe that President Obama is a foreign born Muslim, or that there's a continuing need to poll Americans about it. OR...why anyone should care what religion he practices in his private life.
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama

Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Sept 19, 2015 4:25:47 GMT
I also am leery of polls until I hear how they are taken. You'll have to read that, as I didn't plan to go into that level of detail. There's a link within the link - see pages 15 and 32-36 for the questions I referenced, other pages for general methodology. (Unlike previous polls that only gave a choice of Christian v. Muslim, there were several choices given. Among other choices, two percent chose Mormon and one percent chose Jewish. Sample size was 1,112, so...) Education: I strongly agree that many students are not candidates for higher education. This, of course, is not news to US colleges. In the districts in which I work, vocational education is gone or significantly reduced (sacrificed to both outcomes-based education and family expectations), so any students in regions where it is still offered are fortunate. And while I agree that there has been widespread educational failure, I have no problem including many outside trends and forces - and culture in general - for our decline.
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama

Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Sept 19, 2015 4:49:24 GMT
1. I was on your side until you threw in your jab about people still believing God made humans in their present form 10,000 years ago. Check. I believe that so apparently that makes me a freak. Noted. No, I don't think you're a freak, but yes, I suppose it is a jab. For me, it strains credulity - and is just downright confounding - that people can outright reject scientific findings from more than 8-10,000 years ago. Again, our country is unique among industrialized countries in that widespread belief. Doesn't bode well for scientific advancement if we continue to deny solid scientific findings, and it doesn't bode well for our standing among the international scientific communities. I would be very interested - and very relieved - to read any polls that have different results about Americans' beliefs about Mr. Obama's birthplace and religion. I've only seen polls similar to the one I linked.
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Post by cajeanne on Sept 19, 2015 4:51:25 GMT
I don't think he's a Muslim. I don't think he really practices any religion. I think perhaps he thought he *needed* to be a Christian to be elected but I've seen interviews on talk shows where Michelle pretty much said they don't go to church. Time to regroup and relax as a family. Or something like that. Not that I believe you have to be in a church every Sunday to be religious.
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Post by mom on Sept 19, 2015 7:40:02 GMT
I don't think he is anything. To each his own, but I definitely do not think he is Christian in the same belief that I have.
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Post by peasful1 on Sept 19, 2015 7:57:48 GMT
I don't think he is anything. To each his own, but I definitely do not think he is Christian in the same belief that I have. Because your manner of belief is the only way to be Christian?
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Post by mom on Sept 19, 2015 8:10:08 GMT
I don't think he is anything. To each his own, but I definitely do not think he is Christian in the same belief that I have. Because your manner of belief is the only way to be Christian? I believe there is only one way to be a Christian - to accept Christ as your Lord and Savior. To do this, you repent for your sins, believe God raised Jesus from the dead to save you from sin, surrender your life to Jesus and then accept Jesus as your Savior forever. My belief is not based on a particular religion - you can be Baptist, Methodist, whatever. But I do believe you must do the things I listed to be a Christian.
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keithurbanlovinpea
Pearl Clutcher
Flowing with the go...
Posts: 4,313
Jun 29, 2014 3:29:30 GMT
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Post by keithurbanlovinpea on Sept 19, 2015 14:05:09 GMT
I find it fascinating that in a technologically advanced world where information is literally at our fingertips, more so than ever in our history, that we (generality of course) have instead retreated into a cocoon of rumor and misinformation. It reminds me of middle school gossip almost... unsubstantiated, unverified, and unbelievable crap that is perpetuated because one dumb ass shares it on Facebook or Twitter so it must be true. I (perhaps wrongly) immediately consider the people who perpetuate falsehoods like Obama being Muslim to be lazy and/or incapable of doing their own reading and research, and instead rely on other social media users for all of their "news."
I have become very passionate about this subject. It used to be we got the crap emails about poisoned business cards on car windershields from the crazy aunt who forwarded them on, believing them to be true and not verifying anything on Snopes. But I feel like everything I see posted on social media is easily disputed as untrue. Some of it is, of course, harmless like Betty White dying for the 10th time in 2 years (Betty probably finds it funny), but when it influences the way people vote and the decisions they make about how they raise their children, choose where to live, and generally treat people, it makes me both angry and sad.
I am trying to abide by the rule that what I see on social media is not indicative of the population as a whole, and in fact is probably more of a reflection of the group(s) of people I am connected to more than anything. Which probably doesn't say much about who I follow or am friends with on social media. Ha ha!
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Post by 950nancy on Sept 19, 2015 14:05:51 GMT
That number seems high. I live in a particularly Rebulican area and I have never heard anyone express that belief. People don't like him, but no one thinks that he is Muslim.
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Post by librarylady on Sept 19, 2015 14:13:28 GMT
I know (online, via a group I belong to) that many around here believe he is a Muslim and are "birthers."
Since Trump was a big voice in the "not born in America" movement, I'm not surprised he didn't contradict the man in the audience.
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Judy26
Pearl Clutcher
MOTFY Bitchy Nursemaid
Posts: 2,974
Location: NW PA
Jun 25, 2014 23:50:38 GMT
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Post by Judy26 on Sept 19, 2015 14:23:11 GMT
I just saw a meme that said "Pro choice, pro gay rights, pro women's rights, shaves, drinks beer and eats bacon. WORST Muslim ever." Made me giggle.
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Post by SabrinaM on Sept 19, 2015 14:24:59 GMT
I certainly don't subscribe to that notion of thought. I honestly don't care.
We look like fools, not because of a damn BC, but by how we're handling Isis et al.
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Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,098
Jun 25, 2014 20:07:06 GMT
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Post by Sarah*H on Sept 19, 2015 14:25:15 GMT
And somehow you just know he isn't the same kind of Christian as you even though he openly identifies as a Christian. You know this exactly how?
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Nink
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,963
Location: North Idaho
Jul 1, 2014 23:30:44 GMT
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Post by Nink on Sept 19, 2015 14:29:36 GMT
My question is, so what if he is? I don't think there's anything saying you have to be Christian to be President is there?
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Post by maureen on Sept 19, 2015 14:32:48 GMT
Because your manner of belief is the only way to be Christian? I believe there is only one way to be a Christian - to accept Christ as your Lord and Savior. To do this, you repent for your sins, believe God raised Jesus from the dead to save you from sin, surrender your life to Jesus and then accept Jesus as your Savior forever. My belief is not based on a particular religion - you can be Baptist, Methodist, whatever. But I do believe you must do the things I listed to be a Christian. How do you know he doesn't believe this? To the original point, I'm not surprised by the poll. There are peas who believe the President is a Muslim and based on their Christ-like behaviors, I'd say we might be better off never electing another Christian as president.
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Post by melodyesch on Sept 19, 2015 14:36:29 GMT
I just saw a meme that said "Pro choice, pro gay rights, pro women's rights, shaves, drinks beer and eats bacon. WORST Muslim ever." Made me giggle. AWESOME
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PaperAngel
Prolific Pea
 
Posts: 8,843
Jun 27, 2014 23:04:06 GMT
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Post by PaperAngel on Sept 19, 2015 14:46:09 GMT
I'm not sure which is worse - that Americans believe that President Obama is a foreign born Muslim, or that there's a continuing need to poll Americans about it. ...& continue to use the results as an excuse to belittle others.
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Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,098
Jun 25, 2014 20:07:06 GMT
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Post by Sarah*H on Sept 19, 2015 14:51:38 GMT
I think failing to call out this idiocy for what it is has contributed to the perception that it's legitimate.
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Post by lumo on Sept 19, 2015 14:54:53 GMT
I'm not sure which is worse - that Americans believe that President Obama is a foreign born Muslim, or that there's a continuing need to poll Americans about it. ...& continue to use the results as an excuse to belittle others. I'm sorry, but if someone truly believes that line of bull, they deserve a bit of belittling.
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PaperAngel
Prolific Pea
 
Posts: 8,843
Jun 27, 2014 23:04:06 GMT
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Post by PaperAngel on Sept 19, 2015 15:00:55 GMT
...& continue to use the results as an excuse to belittle others. I'm sorry, but if someone truly believes that line of bull, they deserve a bit of belittling. Many people believe & care about things that I find outrageous, implausible, & insignificant, like this subject. I respect their opinions, although different than mine, & cherish the freedom that gives all of us the opportunity to express them!
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Post by lumo on Sept 19, 2015 15:05:09 GMT
I'm sorry, but if someone truly believes that line of bull, they deserve a bit of belittling. Many people believe & care about things that I find outrageous, implausible, & insignificant, like this subject. I respect their opinions, although different than mine, & cherish the freedom that gives all of us the opportunity to express them! I get that, but what you as see as an opinion is simply sheer refusal to accept facts. Willful ignorance is not the same as having a preference for apples over oranges.
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