Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,098 
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Post by Sarah*H on Sept 19, 2015 15:05:02 GMT
Freedom of expression does not mean freedom from consequences. It is the natural consequence of expressing a belief that is stupid/bigoted/not based in fact or science etc. etc. that people form a low opinion about the person(s) expressing those beliefs.
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PaperAngel
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,843
Jun 27, 2014 23:04:06 GMT
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Post by PaperAngel on Sept 19, 2015 15:22:20 GMT
Many people believe & care about things that I find outrageous, implausible, & insignificant, like this subject. I respect their opinions, although different than mine, & cherish the freedom that gives all of us the opportunity to express them! I get that, but what you as see as an opinion is simply sheer refusal to accept facts... ...in your opinion. The fact is that polls ask people their OPINION. Apparently some people do not believe President Obama's statement about his own religion. I'm uncertain the reason the president's religious beliefs are still of such concern to continue conducting polls, except as a pathetic excuse to belittle others. |
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PaperAngel
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,843
Jun 27, 2014 23:04:06 GMT
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Post by PaperAngel on Sept 19, 2015 15:26:08 GMT
Freedom of expression does not mean freedom from consequences... Absolutely. While I neither stated nor implied otherwise, my point was that I don't automatically belittle or insult others because their opinions differ from mine. I find it distasteful to continue mocking people, especially knowing they are uneducated, for any reason. |
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Post by anxiousmom on Sept 19, 2015 15:29:55 GMT
Because your manner of belief is the only way to be Christian? I believe there is only one way to be a Christian - to accept Christ as your Lord and Savior. To do this, you repent for your sins, believe God raised Jesus from the dead to save you from sin, surrender your life to Jesus and then accept Jesus as your Savior forever. My belief is not based on a particular religion - you can be Baptist, Methodist, whatever. But I do believe you must do the things I listed to be a Christian. but... but....but... I have been seeing the clip of him saying that specifically- that he HAS accepted Jesus as his Lord and Savior. It has been all over the news since the poll came out. Is that not enough? Not enough to hear him at the National Prayer breakfast saying that he prays every day be an instrument of His will and what is right for the nation? I am cranky and in pain this morning and I am sorry for being blunt here- but I can not believe that we (collectively and/or globally) still have to have discussions about who or what branch of the church is more Christian than the other. |
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Post by mom on Sept 19, 2015 15:30:51 GMT
I believe there is only one way to be a Christian - to accept Christ as your Lord and Savior. To do this, you repent for your sins, believe God raised Jesus from the dead to save you from sin, surrender your life to Jesus and then accept Jesus as your Savior forever. My belief is not based on a particular religion - you can be Baptist, Methodist, whatever. But I do believe you must do the things I listed to be a Christian. How do you know he doesn't believe this? To the original point, I'm not surprised by the poll. There are peas who believe the President is a Muslim and based on their Christ-like behaviors, I'd say we might be better off never electing another Christian as president. My statement was that I didn't think he was. I don't know anything - that is between him and God. Do I think he is Muslim? I don't know nor I care. |
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RosieKat
Drama Llama
PeaJect #12
Posts: 5,690
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Post by RosieKat on Sept 19, 2015 15:30:52 GMT
Remember that the big fear about Kennedy was that the Pope would be essentially running our country. There is still a Puritanical streak in us as a nation, a knee-jerk reaction to a non-Protestant running the country. Having said that, I think that people who claim he's Muslim and/or not born here are just idiots. (Shall I tell you how I really feel?  ) |
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Sept 19, 2015 15:36:03 GMT
My question is, so what if he is? I don't think there's anything saying you have to be Christian to be President is there? No, there's no religious requirement (although there seems to be a de facto one), and being Muslim should not be an issue. The point is he's NOT Muslim. That's what creates the significance. 1. It's significant that so many people believe the president is lying when he says he is Christian (and American-born). 2. It's significant that so may people, with no corroborating evidence, just decided he is Muslim. It would be just as bizarre (but not as politically and culturally fraught) if they decided he was Jewish. 3. The belief that he is Muslim is often paired with beliefs about his ties to terrorism and his intentions to damage the country. People believe there is intention behind his "lie." |
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Post by mom on Sept 19, 2015 15:45:07 GMT
I believe there is only one way to be a Christian - to accept Christ as your Lord and Savior. To do this, you repent for your sins, believe God raised Jesus from the dead to save you from sin, surrender your life to Jesus and then accept Jesus as your Savior forever. My belief is not based on a particular religion - you can be Baptist, Methodist, whatever. But I do believe you must do the things I listed to be a Christian. but... but....but... I have been seeing the clip of him saying that specifically- that he HAS accepted Jesus as his Lord and Savior. It has been all over the news since the poll came out. Is that not enough? Not enough to hear him at the National Prayer breakfast saying that he prays every day be an instrument of His will and what is right for the nation? I am cranky and in pain this morning and I am sorry for being blunt here- but I can not believe that we (collectively and/or globally) still have to have discussions about who or what branch of the church is more Christian than the other. I haven't seen it on the news, but if he has accepted Christ - awesome! Is it not enough? Sure. I don't have anything at stake if he is or isn't.... FWIW, some of my prime role models of Christianity are not of a religion that is mainstream America. |
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Post by anxiousmom on Sept 19, 2015 16:41:54 GMT
but... but....but... I have been seeing the clip of him saying that specifically- that he HAS accepted Jesus as his Lord and Savior. It has been all over the news since the poll came out. Is that not enough? Not enough to hear him at the National Prayer breakfast saying that he prays every day be an instrument of His will and what is right for the nation? I am cranky and in pain this morning and I am sorry for being blunt here- but I can not believe that we (collectively and/or globally) still have to have discussions about who or what branch of the church is more Christian than the other. I haven't seen it on the news, but if he has accepted Christ - awesome! Is it not enough? Sure. I don't have anything at stake if he is or isn't.... FWIW, some of my prime role models of Christianity are not of a religion that is mainstream America. But here is where my issue lies with the 'accept Christ' nomenclature. It is specific to a more evangelical Christian branch of Christian churches. For example, I am Episcopalian and that isn't in our vernacular as such-so while you say that you don't have a stake in whether he is or isn't a Christian by your definition, it still implies that those that don't believe the way you do are some how 'less' Christian. |
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valleyview
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,816
Jun 27, 2014 18:41:26 GMT
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Post by valleyview on Sept 19, 2015 18:25:06 GMT
I haven't seen it on the news, but if he has accepted Christ - awesome! Is it not enough? Sure. I don't have anything at stake if he is or isn't.... FWIW, some of my prime role models of Christianity are not of a religion that is mainstream America. But here is where my issue lies with the 'accept Christ' nomenclature. It is specific to a more evangelical Christian branch of Christian churches. For example, I am Episcopalian and that isn't in our vernacular as such-so while you say that you don't have a stake in whether he is or isn't a Christian by your definition, it still implies that those that don't believe the way you do are some how 'less' Christian. I agree. Christianity as a term includes the Catholic Church, Protestants of many denominations, and many other non-denominational churches including evangelicals and Pentecostals. To say someone is not the Christian that you know is like saying your cousins are not your family because they have a different last name. Many modern evangelical Christians would not believe that many of our former presidents were Christians. What difference does it make now? Why continually upbraid the current president? |
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Post by maryland on Sept 19, 2015 19:50:05 GMT
It's just stunning that this persists. We look like idiots. This is kind of a "Do you still beat your wife?" discussion landmine, so for the record, I couldn't care less if we had a Muslim president, but I think we need to assume that many people would view it as a negative. Oh, and 20% still do not believe he was born in the United States. Nine percent claim they have evidence. Heh. Oy.Of course, this is the same country where 42 percent of Americans believe God created humans in their present form 10,000 years ago. Among industrialized countries, I think we still have a few more evolution-believers than Turkey, but I'd have to check. Sigh. I really should just back away from this one but what the hell.  1. I'm a republican (or combo republic/libertarian) 2. I've never thought Obama was Muslim- and even if he was so what? It wouldn't matter to me at all. 3. I've never given a crap about the birth stuff- ridiculous 4. I am amazed so many people believe that- not sure I trust those polls. 5. I was on your side until you threw in your jab about people still believing God made humans in their present form 10,000 years ago. Check. I believe that so apparently that makes me a freak. Noted. I feel the same way about #3! It wouldn't matter to me at all if he was Muslim.
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Post by SabrinaM on Sept 19, 2015 20:01:51 GMT
Regarding the polling...
One thing I've learned in my 42 years: Don't ask questions you don't want the answers to.
This subject keeps coming up in the media over and over. Is it birthers bringing it front and center or people trying to play politics and distract from the main issues going on in our country.
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Post by canadianscrappergirl on Sept 19, 2015 21:57:39 GMT
Hmm are these the same people that also believe the earth is flat just wondering lol?  |
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Post by tracyarts on Sept 19, 2015 22:27:32 GMT
I have become very passionate about this subject. It used to be we got the crap emails about poisoned business cards on car windershields from the crazy aunt who forwarded them on, believing them to be true and not verifying anything on Snopes. But I feel like everything I see posted on social media is easily disputed as untrue. Some of it is, of course, harmless like Betty White dying for the 10th time in 2 years (Betty probably finds it funny), but when it influences the way people vote and the decisions they make about how they raise their children, choose where to live, and generally treat people, it makes me both angry and sad. This is a HUGE problem in my community. There are a lot of people who read social media fear hoaxes and jump on them without verifying, and run with it and stir up all kinds of upset, anxiety, and confusion. I can't check the community Facebook group, go to a community social event, or even hang around a local place of business without somebody talking about the latest threat that we should be looking over our shoulders for. I live in a very safe, quiet, and clean community. There is no valid reason to be afraid of any kind of vague threat of danger. The worst thing that can realistically happen is the refinery goes up in a gigantic fireball one day. But nobody worries about that. They're all too busy freaking out over child predators hiding around every corner waiting to snatch their children away, terrorists infiltrating the community to plant bombs or go on shooting rampages, the crime rate soaring out of control, anti government conspiracies about the liberals wanting to shut down churches and take away guns, cover up conspiracies, toxic food and consumer product risks, etc... It's a damn shame that these people live in an area where you can sleep easy at night, without worrying about actual threats to your safety and security, but they are in a constant state of freak-out over all of these ridiculous threats. |
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carhoch
Pearl Clutcher
Be yourself everybody else is already taken
Posts: 3,115
Location: We’re RV’s so It change all the time .
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Post by carhoch on Sept 19, 2015 22:31:24 GMT
This just proves that 29% of Americans are idiots .
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Just T
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,145
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Post by Just T on Sept 19, 2015 22:31:39 GMT
My father and brother in law believe he is the Anti-Christ. Seriously. They really believe that.
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Post by freecharlie on Sept 19, 2015 22:50:21 GMT
7% believe we faked the moon landing
14% believe in Big Foot
Some people grab an idea and never let it go, proof or no proof.
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Post by freecharlie on Sept 19, 2015 22:52:29 GMT
I haven't seen it on the news, but if he has accepted Christ - awesome! Is it not enough? Sure. I don't have anything at stake if he is or isn't.... FWIW, some of my prime role models of Christianity are not of a religion that is mainstream America. But here is where my issue lies with the 'accept Christ' nomenclature. It is specific to a more evangelical Christian branch of Christian churches. For example, I am Episcopalian and that isn't in our vernacular as such-so while you say that you don't have a stake in whether he is or isn't a Christian by your definition, it still implies that those that don't believe the way you do are some how 'less' Christian. I quoted you just to say that I love that you used nomenclature. |
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Post by blondiec47 on Sept 19, 2015 23:24:58 GMT
Personally I couldn't care less. But if he is, so what? If someone said I was Jewish I would not be up in arms. He's not Muslim so why do liberals get so upset when he is referred to as one. It makes it seem like being Muslim is a bad thing
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Post by freecharlie on Sept 19, 2015 23:28:14 GMT
Personally I couldn't care less. But if he is, so what? If someone said I was Jewish I would not be up in arms. He's not Muslim so why do liberals get so upset when he is referred to as one. It makes it seem like being Muslim is a bad thing Because those who are making the accusation are doing so because they do think being Muslim is a bad thing. They are saying he is helping Islam take over the country. He is not helping Americans because he is Muslim. |
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Post by lucyg on Sept 19, 2015 23:34:12 GMT
Personally I couldn't care less. But if he is, so what? If someone said I was Jewish I would not be up in arms. He's not Muslim so why do liberals get so upset when he is referred to as one. It makes it seem like being Muslim is a bad thing Because those who are making the accusation are doing so because they do think being Muslim is a bad thing. They are saying he is helping Islam take over the country. He is not helping Americans because he is Muslim. Right. It is intended as an insult, not a compliment. |
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Post by moveablefeast on Sept 20, 2015 0:13:52 GMT
I haven't seen it on the news, but if he has accepted Christ - awesome! Is it not enough? Sure. I don't have anything at stake if he is or isn't.... FWIW, some of my prime role models of Christianity are not of a religion that is mainstream America. But here is where my issue lies with the 'accept Christ' nomenclature. It is specific to a more evangelical Christian branch of Christian churches. For example, I am Episcopalian and that isn't in our vernacular as such-so while you say that you don't have a stake in whether he is or isn't a Christian by your definition, it still implies that those that don't believe the way you do are some how 'less' Christian. Not to be persnickety, truly - but it IS in the vernacular of the Episcopal Church - it is in the BCP, specifically in the baptismal rite, in those exact words, "accept Him as your Savior". I guess what I am getting at is that lots of people use this as some kind of plumb line - either it's used to try to determine who is a Christian and who isn't, by use of this one specific phrase, or it's used to separate us as this kind of Christian from them as that kind of Christian. I don't think it's a particularly helpful designation overall. Speaking as a confirmed Episcopalian, evangelical Christian, loony Holy Spirit kind of believer.  I mess up all the categories. |
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I mess up all the categories.