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Post by Hayjaker on Oct 4, 2015 12:12:54 GMT
Roseburg Oregon is my community.
My son is a student at UCC and was on campus on Thursday.
I work for our Community Mental Health Provider and was deployed for crisis response. I worked with many families whose loved one did not get off the last bus. My agency is committed to helping our community recover from this tragic incident.
Check your insurance coverage. How is mental health treatment covered?
6 visits to a therapist?
2 weeks at an inpatient residential treatment facility?
what if that's not enough?
what about case management? Skills training?
For many people with mental illness therapy is imperative and instrumental to recovery, but for many people that's not enough. Skills training can teach new behaviors, attitudes, patterns to allow people to cope with stressors and their illness more effectively.
My clients who come to my agency, which is Medicaid funded, have access to a much better array of services than my own insurance will cover!
how often do we hear, "I just couldn't get help?"
Is it because people don't know there's a problem? I don't think so
i think its because the help is not easy enough, affordable enough to access and it comes with a huge stigma and judgment. I think there is fear attached with mental illness that for the most part is silly.
People recover from Mental Illness
AND people can cope with their mental illness to live functional, productive, typical lives..
People recover from Pneumonia.
AND people can cope with their asthma to live functional, productive, typical lives.
IN BOTH EXAMPLES it depends on the severity of the illness, what kind of appropriate interventions are put in place, how the patient adheres to the treatment plan AND in some instances developing long term support strategies and coping mechanisms.
If if myself or my children were to be diagnosed with a severe mental illness I would not be able to access the best long term treatment for recovery. My insurance does not cover adequately. I know this.
im so very weary about the losses in my community. Not a single person I know wasn't affected in some way personally by this attack on our community college campus. We do not know what drove this shooter to this heinous act. We can only speculate that a person cannot be in their right mind to disregard humanity in that way and plan to open fire on others. Yes, you have to be able to access guns to kill with them. That is absolutely true. However, your brain has to be short circuiting in some way to allow yourself to believe that murder is justified.
I am am sure in the days and weeks to follow we will get more details. And just like before when this has happened there will be talk of gun control and this will be big politics. And I do believe this is very important.
To to me talking about mental illness, affordable access to appropriate care, and education to reduce stigma and fear is equally important and I fear it will be lost in big politics.
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oaksong
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Jun 27, 2014 6:24:29 GMT
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Post by oaksong on Oct 4, 2015 14:09:17 GMT
I am so very sorry about the devastating loss you community has experienced. I agree that it's a shame when the conversation about mental illness is far overshadowed by guns after an incident like this.
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RosieKat
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Post by RosieKat on Oct 4, 2015 14:32:13 GMT
I personally know people in our large city who have had children (13 y.o. and I think 15 y.o.) try to kill themselves (and by try, I do unfortunately mean "really" try), but not be able to find a place to hospitalize them for help. The 13 y.o. was able to find a bed about 2 weeks later, the 15 y.o. I think got "lucky" in finding a spot 4 days later.
There is a severe shortage of facilities, doctors, etc. for all ages, but particularly for children. In my own experience, about half of the providers' offices won't even return phone calls of inquiry. I have issues with most providers we've seen as well, but frankly, they are also overworked and simply swamped.
We're not had problems with any outpatient coverage, and thankfully we've not needed any inpatient care. The insurance truth is that although coverage has gotten better, it is still just not seen as the same thing. And heaven forbid anyone need ongoing, regular care for any therapy past 20 sessions or whatever.
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Post by Delta Dawn on Oct 4, 2015 14:39:08 GMT
I have firsthand knowledge that a *day* admission to an acute bed in our local hospital is $2500/day. A psych bed is an acute bed as it isn't a general ward bed. If we didn't have our health care there is no way any of us could afford a month long stay in hospital. My Mum is on the psych ward now (the Senior's Mental Health ward aka dementia) and her care costs that much. We don't have to pay for it as she is acute still, but she has been in for 4 months now. Can you imagine how much that would cost if we didn't have insurance? We would lose our house and everything! I can only imagine what it is like in the US!
*When she becomes stable we have to pay $1000 a month for her to be in the hospital. If she gets transferred to a care facility that will triple as they take x% of your income up to $3000.
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Post by nlwilkins on Oct 4, 2015 14:51:44 GMT
This has been my major beef with Obamacare. Yes we need affordable insurance, and I a proud that my daughter finally can afford insurance. But, we need affordable health care more. You hear about the CEOs and admins making so much money, but I don't know the truth of that. I do know that nurses and doctors, the ones who do the hands on work are in short supply. Mental healthcare seems to get leftovers and seem to be an after thought when insurance plans are being drawn up.
But finding out what is the truth is hard. Many (not all, of course) are not held accountable to the truth anymore and lies are published as truth and taken as truth by many.
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Post by Linda on Oct 4, 2015 15:03:19 GMT
I completely agree - I posted my experiences in the other thread so won't repeat them - but suffice to say, I've personally experienced the difficulty in assessing and paying for mental health
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Post by ntsf on Oct 4, 2015 15:17:29 GMT
it is not only access to therapists, hospitals an day programs. it is housing, and part of it is that if you qualify for ssi..it does not provide enough to live on..so people live on the street and get worse. there is not enough support for kid with mental illness and disabilities in school. there is not a strong culture of not accepting bullying and treating the problem.
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Post by freecharlie on Oct 4, 2015 16:37:35 GMT
I think we need good mental healthcare providers on schools, not just counselors, but people really trained. That way kids have access to the services they need.
The problem is money. School districts would not pay the kind of money a properly trained mental health provider would need.
We have school psychs, I don't think most of them are qualifies to do essentially private practice.
Coping skills, recognition skills, and where to find help need to be taught in schools, but since they are not tested, we don't have time for them.
It is almost impossible around here to get a bed for an adolescent needing mental health care
The cost is prohibited if you can find a bed and in some instances the closet bed is 100 of miles away.
I am glad the trend is going toward not giving the shooter's the press they so badly want. I wish we had done that stating with columbine.
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Deleted
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Aug 18, 2025 20:17:40 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2015 16:54:35 GMT
Even if it's not covered by insurance, help can still be acquired by paying for it.
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Post by freecharlie on Oct 4, 2015 16:57:14 GMT
Even if it's not covered by insurance, help can still be acquired by paying for it. but if people are living paycheck to paycheck, will they? I have good insurance, but my insurance will only pay for 6 visits per incident. Then it is out of pocket (our copay is small for this as well, but most people's arent) In patient in network is not going to cost us an arm and a leg, but we have a 250 deductible, some people have 10,000 and then an 80/20 split |
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Post by Hayjaker on Oct 4, 2015 17:04:49 GMT
Even if it's not covered by insurance, help can still be acquired by paying for it. Yes. It can be paid for out of pocket, but ft he service array is very limited. Mental illness and what is needed for recovery and support is very misunderstood. When a child is sent to a residential facility they get treatment and skills. If the family system is not prepared to support this treatment, these skills; if the family system doesn't adjust, will the change be sustained? I think we need good mental healthcare providers on schools, not just counselors, but people really trained. That way kids have access to the services they need. The problem is money. School districts would not pay the kind of money a properly trained mental health provider would need. We have school psychs, I don't think most of them are qualifies to do essentially private practice. Coping skills, recognition skills, and where to find help need to be taught in schools, but since they are not tested, we don't have time for them. It is almost impossible around here to get a bed for an adolescent needing mental health care The cost is prohibited if you can find a bed and in some instances the closet bed is 100 of miles away. I am glad the trend is going toward not giving the shooter's the press they so badly want. I wish we had done that stating with columbine. I agree with this completely! |
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Post by freecharlie on Oct 4, 2015 17:07:30 GMT
And some of the residential facilities are scary. Some of the kids in there are violent and honestly, if I thought my kid was "just" depresses, I might not want him subjected to that, so I might not seek that type of treatment.
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Post by knit.pea on Oct 4, 2015 18:23:55 GMT
Specifically, this shooter and Lanza were labelled "different" for years
and years. This one went to an alternative-type school for behavior issues.
In both cases, they were identified as having issues. Some treatment
was sought.
Both had mothers who owned guns and (presumably) allowed them to use
guns growing up ... mothers who KNEW they had mental health issues.
So the family AND the system (school, counselors, therapists) KNEW
these two had issues. And, for whatever reasons, not enough was done.
Did the moms give up?
Were the moms scared OF their kids?
Did the kids manipulate their moms?
Did no one take their concerns seriously?
Did the kids lie about their feelings to appear more "normal" to medical professionals?
How do we as a society fix that? (Honest question.)
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AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,970
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Post by AnotherPea on Oct 4, 2015 18:34:15 GMT
I think there needs to be an entire overhaul of mental health services. A diagnosis is incredibly subjective in many cases and it really comes down to who has their own personal agenda/cause about certain things when a diagnosis is made. It is soooo easy to buy a diagnosis for ADHD, ODD, autism, dyslexia, and Executive Functioning Disorder in my neck of the woods. I know so many people that take medication for bipolar disorder, depression and anxiety. I find it very difficult to believe that all of these people have actual disorders/conditions.
We've lost our "grit" as a nation and we have too many quacks out there handing out diagnoses and medication like they're candy.
I don't think we need to add mental health services to our school system. I think that would be a big mistake. Maybe instead Social Services could get involved more if needs aren't being met.
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luvnlifelady
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Post by luvnlifelady on Oct 4, 2015 18:40:23 GMT
I agree with you. My SIL is struggling with her 9 year old daughter. She is diagnosed as bi-polar but is severe. I saw a heartbreaking letter she wrote about suicide and how she has plans to take her own life. It's devastating. The family feels like they can't leave her with anyone. Her rages are out of control even with seeing a psychiatrist and on severe meds. However, what are my SIL's options really? There are no pediatric mental health beds in her county (big and affluent country in Southern CA).
It was like in the post about Jani Schofield about a week ago. Some were saying "why isn't she in residential care?" Well, sometimes it comes down to access but also affordability. Who would pay for that?
My daughter suffered some mental health issues about 18 months ago now (for about 18 months). We have Kaiser insurance but were lucky to even get a monthly appt. They barely even cared about the diagnosis but immediately started throwing meds at us. She seems stable now (is away at college) without anything, but it was a very difficult time.
There needs to be more support for families. Many suffer in silence because of the stigma. We definitely felt it once we confided in some close friends about the issues we were experiencing.
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AnotherPea
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Post by AnotherPea on Oct 4, 2015 18:58:54 GMT
I also think part of the problem is the perception of mental illness. Compared to physical illnesses. Because they do not have outward symptoms quite like physical illnesses, and because many symptoms are common enough with healthy individuals (everybody gets moody, everybody has really sad days, everybody gets angry), mental illness is often discounted. Seen as either not "real," diagnoses are doubted by some (as I openly admitted earlier), or believed to be treatable at home.
I know many parents that would move heaven and earth to find money for chemotherapy if their insurance companies wouldn't pay for it, but wouldn't work nearly as hard to get mental health services. The mindset is just different.
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Post by SabrinaM on Oct 4, 2015 21:09:15 GMT
Let's also take into consideration the fact that unless someone is an imminent threat to themselves or someone else, little can be done against someone's will. My daughter has a child in her classroom who has a horrible home life. He's quite disturbed, very disruptive etc. Until he is a threat, he's entitled legally to an education. I just have to hope/pray he doesn't decide to bring a gun/knife to school. He's one very angry little boy.  |
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RosieKat
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Post by RosieKat on Oct 4, 2015 22:13:56 GMT
I also think part of the problem is the perception of mental illness. Compared to physical illnesses. Because they do not have outward symptoms quite like physical illnesses, and because many symptoms are common enough with healthy individuals (everybody gets moody, everybody has really sad days, everybody gets angry), mental illness is often discounted. Seen as either not "real," diagnoses are doubted by some (as I openly admitted earlier), or believed to be treatable at home. I think you're right about that. A small part of me was actually kind of happy that my daughter had a manic episode last spring, where people at school could actually get an idea of what she had to deal with. It was like I felt that I could finally prove just how hard it is to live in her head all the time. "No, really, we aren't making this up. She's not just a kind of quirky kid...she's a quirky kid with very real problems." And yes, I do see some people overdiagnose (IMO), or misunderstand that "hyper" or lack of discipline is not the same as true ADHD, or "moodiness" is not the same as a mood disorder, a rebellious teenager is not the same as ODD, etc. And in kids, so many of them are able to mostly hold it together at school, and then just have no energy left to hold it together to handle it all any more. And it's also hard for some families to realize that for any person with a psychiatric problem, even one that medications can treat, it's not as simple as just meds. They are usually a critical component, but so are things like therapy, lifestyle changes, etc. For my daughter, getting enough sleep is probably almost as important as regular meds. I am that grumpy parent who insists on bedtime *every*single*night* no later than 8:30, even during vacations, because we've seen the hard way what happens when we don't. "Home" is a necessary component of treatment. And then there are things like common sense. I have nothing particularly against guns in the hands of trained, responsible people (but not trying to debate that topic). However, I will never have them in my home because I have a kid who has expressed suicidal thoughts before. I know that if push comes to shove, I can't stop that. However, I can help take away as much of the "convenience" factor as I can. Same reason I lock up meds, and took in all the old/expired ones to the DEA drug takeback day. My daughter is doing well right now, and God willing, will continue to do so. But I have to do all I can to help support that. |
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Post by SabrinaM on Oct 4, 2015 22:29:19 GMT
I know exactly what you mean. My oldest has ADD and struggles occasionally with depression. We keep her medicated (& insist on a regular bedtime) and as long as we do, she's doing very well. I was so aggravated with her friend's Mom a few weekends ago for opting not to remind my DD to take her meds because my daughter was behaving fine and she didn't think she needed them. I texted her to remind DD and even spoke to friend's mom on the phone. (They were at a water park in another state for the weekend. ) I wasn't happy!
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RosieKat
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Post by RosieKat on Oct 4, 2015 22:31:00 GMT
I was so aggravated with her friend's Mom a few weekends ago for opting not to remind my DD to take her meds because my daughter was behaving fine and she didn't think she needed them. I texted her to remind DD and even spoke to friend's mom on the phone. (They were at a water park in another state for the weekend. ) I wasn't happy! Oh my gosh...I would pretty much lose my shizznit over that... |
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Post by SabrinaM on Oct 4, 2015 22:34:45 GMT
I was so aggravated with her friend's Mom a few weekends ago for opting not to remind my DD to take her meds because my daughter was behaving fine and she didn't think she needed them. I texted her to remind DD and even spoke to friend's mom on the phone. (They were at a water park in another state for the weekend. ) I wasn't happy! Oh my gosh...I would pretty much lose my shizznit over that... I was not happy, especially after I had explained to her how antidepressants work. It's not like a quick acting stimulant that metabolizes quickly. She takes them regularly for a reason. Fool. |
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moodyblue
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Location: Western Illinois
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Jun 26, 2014 21:07:23 GMT
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Post by moodyblue on Oct 4, 2015 23:07:07 GMT
Access to mental health care is a current topic where I live. A for-profit system wants to build a new facility and the local hospital systems are opposed, saying that we have enough beds available. The issue that is being talked about a lot is the shortage of psychiatrists or nurse practitioners who can prescribe meds. In my area (border of Illinois and Iowa) part of the problem seems to be the low reimbursement rate paid to mental health practitioners by Medicaid; both Illinois and Iowa rank among the lowest in the country. And the U of Iowa is only graduating 13 psychiatrists per year, and it can be hard to keep them in the state or get them to come to Illinois because pay isn't that great. And the newspaper article I just read today talked about how mental health care providers are working with the very people many doctors don't want to have as patients. Seems like there is a lack of respect all around this issue.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Oct 5, 2015 0:27:29 GMT
I work in the mental health field. I wish we all had the same coverage (for mental and physical health) as those on Medicaid. They are able to access most services indefinitely and with no charge. In my area, there is a waiting list to see a psychiatrist but other services are readily available. Unfortunately, what I had found is that those with the most impairment are the least to access those services readily. They are more likely to no show or cancel and less likely to make an appointment in the first place. Once they are adults, there isn't someone there making sure they get to their appointments or follow through, let alone help them work on the skills that they are learning.
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RosieKat
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Post by RosieKat on Oct 5, 2015 2:11:25 GMT
Unfortunately, what I had found is that those with the most impairment are the least to access those services readily. They are more likely to no show or cancel and less likely to make an appointment in the first place. Once they are adults, there isn't someone there making sure they get to their appointments or follow through, let alone help them work on the skills that they are learning. Yeah, ironically one of the things that made DD more willing to take her meds is that she and I do volunteer work with the homeless community. After a couple of "truck runs," she was talking with me about how people become homeless. I explained some of the reasons, one of them being that a lot of people have "brain things" (as she calls it) like she does, and don't keep taking their meds and don't have someone to make sure they do. She thought for a moment and said "Well. I guess I'd better keep taking them, then."    (not quite sure which applies...) |
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Post by Delta Dawn on Oct 5, 2015 10:27:04 GMT
I agree with you. My SIL is struggling with her 9 year old daughter. She is diagnosed as bi-polar but is severe. I saw a heartbreaking letter she wrote about suicide and how she has plans to take her own life. It's devastating. The family feels like they can't leave her with anyone. Her rages are out of control even with seeing a psychiatrist and on severe meds. However, what are my SIL's options really? There are no pediatric mental health beds in her county (big and affluent country in Southern CA). It was like in the post about Jani Schofield about a week ago. Some were saying "why isn't she in residential care?" Well, sometimes it comes down to access but also affordability. Who would pay for that?My daughter suffered some mental health issues about 18 months ago now (for about 18 months). We have Kaiser insurance but were lucky to even get a monthly appt. They barely even cared about the diagnosis but immediately started throwing meds at us. She seems stable now (is away at college) without anything, but it was a very difficult time. There needs to be more support for families. Many suffer in silence because of the stigma. We definitely felt it once we confided in some close friends about the issues we were experiencing. It was me who posted this so I am going to ask what I don't understand. Why doesn't the state take care of her then? Her parents pay taxes, so I don't understand why medicaid(?) I am not sure what your social welfare system is called doesn't take care of her needs. It's not a criticism, it's an "I just don't understand why the government (health care) doesn't pick up the tab for someone who desperately needs it?" Clearly the guy who did this in Oregon needed to be in treatment. At some point someone is going to have to say "we're doing this wrong". I am learning a lot more about the US system, and one thing recently I learned is how much Rx drugs cost in your country. This has a LOT to do with mental health as psychotropic drugs are prohibitively expensive. I get mine covered. Most of mine are now generic as the drug has been out long enough that the patent has worn off and other drug makers can produce Cymbalta, Latuda or Abilify (these are just random names of expensive drugs I have tried). A month of Cymbalta is well over $100 for me (I took it for just a few days--didn't agree with me as in couldn't keep it down). I got physician's samples so that was good, but who can afford drugs like that? (Another instance is the biologic drug Enbrel which is $1600 a month for people with RA and psoriasis). Who has money to pay for that? Medical technology in the US is excellent. I am not questioning that. It's the affordability of health care). Under the topic of residential care is availability of care. Are there enough beds available for those who need them? That is a problem we in Canada face. It takes a severe crisis to be able to get inpatient care (i.e. my mom wandering the neighbourhood yelling for help and accusing us of holding her hostage. Yeah that was a fun Saturday. She needed residential care from then on, but got discharged 2x before they would admit her long term. She wasn't a danger to others but definitely herself. She could turn on the water in the house too hot and scald herself by getting in the shower; she could try cutting with a knife and cut her hand or anything...she had no reasoning ability when she got to be too bad and wouldn't know she shouldn't use a chef's knife to put jam on toast. I wasn't able to watch her 100% of the time. I have things i have to do like pottying and showering etc. Someone always had to be there watching her. This is just an example). Something has to be done, but what at this point? Stop allowing people to buy guns? Not going to happen. People getting access to good mental health care? There are waiting times to get in to see a psychiatrist in some areas I have "heard". That isn't exactly access to good health care when it is needed-before a crisis. I don't have or know the answers. Plus there is the stigma of people needing psychiatric care or medication. We have it in Refupeas. How is a parent supposed to know her son is going to shoot up a college classroom or elementary classroom? Why didn't the parents get the child help? Maybe they didn't want to be known as the "family with the adult child who had mental health sickness" and did nothing about it. Maybe there was nothing they could do. It's a sad situation all around. |
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Oct 5, 2015 15:23:12 GMT
Let's also take into consideration the fact that unless someone is an imminent threat to themselves or someone else, little can be done against someone's will. My daughter has a child in her classroom who has a horrible home life. He's quite disturbed, very disruptive etc. Until he is a threat, he's entitled legally to an education. I just have to hope/pray he doesn't decide to bring a gun/knife to school. He's one very angry little boy. This is also different than it used to be. It used to be more common for anyone who showed signs of mental illness (even if not severe) to be "locked up" in a mental health institution. The attitude has changed about this--and in most cases that is a good thing. It used to be too easy to get someone committed, but now it is almost too hard. That has also led to a reduction in beds. Insurance is also not as willing to pay for long term treatment these days. I have had several kids in the last few years who needed to be in residential or impatient treatment, but the insurance companies (Medicaid) would only pay for a week or two of a 30 day or longer treatment. Their situation was dire enough to be there and we were trying to prevent more serious actions, but the insurance company said it wasn't justified or in some of the cases, the child has already been in treatments in the past with little lasting improvement, so they didn't want to pay for more. |
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Refupea #39
(not quite sure which applies...)