julieb
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Post by julieb on Nov 9, 2015 18:11:54 GMT
For years my brother (#1) embezzled money from the family business. He would pay his personal utility bills, kids' cell phones, car insurance, etc. through the family business. This started after my Dad retired and my brothers took over the business. This brother was the "manager" (or I should say mis-manager).
He was confronted many times and he would always say he paid it back, etc. My other brothers were just stupid in letting him get away with it. One brother left the business in frustration. He wanted to have scumbag #1 brother charged with embezzlement (he had a ton of paper proof) but my parents begged him not to. Business eventually closed due to mis-management and my brothers went their separate ways. Until....
# 1 brother needed a job and brother #2 gave him a job. Yep, so stupid and once again #1 brother was up to his old tricks. Brother #2 eventually told him to leave. #1 left #2 with another pile of bills that didn't pertain to the business. #1 brother then tells my Dad that #2 owes him money and threatens my Dad that he will sue #2 brother to get money. It is all a lie. So my Dad gives #1 scumbag 10k. I finally tell #1 that he is a scumbag and he denies everything. P.S. We had a great childhood growing up. My Dad worked very hard to give us a nice upbringing despite having so many kids. 
So this entire time (20 years) we have shielded #1 kids from the truth. The shit is finally hitting the fan and my niece (#1 dd) is saying things that are really pissing me off (ie. "Grandpa can afford to give my dad money"). She has asked me once for the "truth" and I washed over most of it and I told her to call brother#3 who has all the paperwork of theft. But I am done. I can't stand that she is now saying things about brother #2 and things she doesn't know the truth about. She is an adult with kids and I think she should know the truth but only if she asks me.
P.S. Niece knows that her dad, #1, forged her mom's name to an IRA to get the money. We have no clue what brother #1 does with the money. I suspect he has an online gambling problem.
Thoughts?
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Deleted
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Apr 28, 2024 5:59:23 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2015 18:17:56 GMT
Were you directly involved with the business or do you know this because you're family and have been told? Not because I'm doubting the veracity of what has happened, but to me, it makes a difference about whether or not you are the one who should be telling the daughter the whole truth.
If you have direct, first-hand knowledge of what happened - then yes, tell her. If you don't, then I would say you should tell her that there is a lot she doesn't know and the things she is saying are very misguided and she needs to talk to the brother who has all the details to get the whole story.
The reason I differentiate is because if she goes back to her father, and your knowledge is second-hand, he's going to spin it like you don't know what you're talking about.
What a nightmare. He should be in jail.
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Post by rainangel on Nov 9, 2015 18:31:27 GMT
I agree with busypea. Be very certain of the 'truth' you tell your niece. If you ARE certain, then your niece is old enough to handle the truth. But be prepared for her to go to her father and the shitstorm of accusations and spinning things around that will splitting the family.
And yes, he should be charged and put in jail. Even if he gets off, an investigation could uncover things that would be beneficial to shed light on.
What a sad situation! I am sorry you are dealing with this.
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julieb
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Post by julieb on Nov 9, 2015 18:35:20 GMT
What a nightmare. He should be in jail.
No kidding. He is in such denial and feels that he is entitled. He made the comment that he wished he was an only child and soon he will be. It's makes me incredibly sad for my parents that we won't be together as a family anymore (niece said she doesn't think that will be at family Christmas), but he made his bed. Last year there was a blow up between the sister-in-laws. Quite the scene.
I agree with the second hand information. I know a lot, but not all the financials. I told niece once to call brother #3. She did and he didn't answer and she didn't leave a message or call him back. I think she is also torn about wanting to know the truth. Deep down she knows but doesn't want the confirmation. I'm just tired of her making comments about brother #2, who has a heart of gold.
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julieb
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Post by julieb on Nov 9, 2015 18:39:13 GMT
I agree with busypea. Be very certain of the 'truth' you tell your niece. If you ARE certain, then your niece is old enough to handle the truth. But be prepared for her to go to her father and the shitstorm of accusations and spinning things around that will splitting the family. And yes, he should be charged and put in jail. Even if he gets off, an investigation could uncover things that would be beneficial to shed light on. What a sad situation! I am sorry you are dealing with this.
Too late for charging. That paperwork is from 15-20 years ago and I know my other brothers could not do that to him regardless of what a scumbag he is.
I'm not worried about shitstorm with my other siblings. We are all on the same page, but I worry about my parents, who are in their 80's. Probably the main reason I've kept my mouth shut.
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Post by hop2 on Nov 9, 2015 18:40:05 GMT
I tell the truth if possible. BUT only the truth that I KNOW for a fact. I try very hard not to be perpetuating unconfirmed perspectives if other people. ( don't always succeed but I try )
If it's not age appropriate I'll deflect. Meaning " I don't think it's appropriate for me to tell you that right now." Or " I've heard things that I can not confirm and therefore I wont perpetuate something I'm not sure of"
In your situation if I was taken off guard I might blurt out what an ass #1 is but if I was on guard I'd point the person in the direction of someone with facts.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Nov 9, 2015 19:13:36 GMT
If someone asks me a direct question that I can answer with 100% certainty, I will answer their question. I do not embellish, repeat second hand information or answer more than they ask. If your niece says something that you know to be untrue, than I would correct her. I don't know your parent's personal finances, but be very sure "Grandpa can afford to give my Dad money" is UNTRUE. Not that there isn't a backstory, not that it's bullshit that he gave him money, that it's UNTRUE. If niece says "Uncle Joe owes my Dad money" and you KNOW that it's untrue - tell her that it's untrue. You don't need to go back 10 years and tell about embezzlement. Answer questions, correct explicit statements that are untrue - YES. Dredge up 20 years of drama between her father and the rest of the family - no.
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Post by femalebusiness on Nov 9, 2015 20:51:19 GMT
I will never understand why people rug sweep. Had someone told the truth to the entire family when this first started, years ago, it wouldn't have come to this. Why bother telling the truth now? Just let him keep stealing everyone's money until it is all gone and he has ruined his parent's, his sibling's and his children's lives.
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sharlag
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Jun 26, 2014 12:57:48 GMT
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Post by sharlag on Nov 9, 2015 22:22:28 GMT
I will never understand why people rug sweep. Had someone told the truth to the entire family when this first started, years ago, it wouldn't have come to this. Our family is TERRIBLE about ignoring bad behavior, to avoid conflict, I suppose. How I wish I /we could go back decades and confront bad behaviors when they first started, instead of being polite to 'preserve the peace'! |
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back to *pea*ality
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Jun 25, 2014 19:51:11 GMT
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Post by back to *pea*ality on Nov 9, 2015 22:37:44 GMT
You said your niece asked you for the truth. Tell her. Her dad is a con man. She has to have some inkling of this with him forging her mother's name to steal her IRA money.
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georgiapea
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Post by georgiapea on Nov 9, 2015 22:38:58 GMT
This is one of those situations where you can say "You don't want to know". Then if the truth comes out the person will likely say "I wish I hadn't asked". I would be very careful about being the messenger of this bad news. A lot of people could blame you for exposing the family secrets. Personally I would tell it all and let the chips fall where they may. I'd assume I would no longer be welcome at the homes of many relatives, which for me would be fine. That might not work out well for you.
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Post by polz on Nov 9, 2015 22:55:07 GMT
Our family cover up all kinds of things. If it was my niece, I would say 'You don't want to know' or 'Ask your father'. Nothing good will come of being the messenger. If she thinks Grandpa can afford X, you could say 'No he can't and I won't say why'.
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moodyblue
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Jun 26, 2014 21:07:23 GMT
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Post by moodyblue on Nov 9, 2015 23:01:28 GMT
I agree that you should only tell what you KNOW to be true - if you are asked. And yes, you can point her to the person who can answer additional questions, with the suggestion that maybe she shouldn't ask unless she really wants to know the truth.
I also think, though, that you could suggest that she not repeat what her father says assuming that it's the truth because it may not be accurate and then she could be spreading falsehoods that make her look bad too.
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Post by disneypal on Nov 9, 2015 23:27:19 GMT
She is an adult with kids and I think she should know the truth but only if she asks me. This is my advice. If she were to ask me, then I would tell her the whole truth. I wouldn't seek her out to tell her but I would be completely honest if she were to ask. |
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Post by peasapie on Nov 9, 2015 23:31:03 GMT
Your brother sounds like a master manipulator.
At 20, your niece is old enough to know the truth, and she probably already does. You said she knows her father committed forgery, and growing up as his child, I'm sure she has seen a lot of other things as well.
It sounds like she has already been told some negative things about her dad and she is already denying or excusing them. What purpose does further confrontation serve? She will continue to defend her dad, and he will almost certainly shift blame back to the rest of the family.
A lot of this sounds like it is secondhand information (to you) from brother #2, and if that is the case, I think your brothers and dad should be left to work it out without involving you. Brother #2 can tell her if he wants, since it's his issue.
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julieb
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Post by julieb on Nov 9, 2015 23:53:06 GMT
I will never understand why people rug sweep. Had someone told the truth to the entire family when this first started, years ago, it wouldn't have come to this. Why bother telling the truth now? Just let him keep stealing everyone's money until it is all gone and he has ruined his parent's, his sibling's and his children's lives.
Unfortunately, you are right. Everyone in the family (including all nieces & nephews except #1 kids) know what happened. It has been everyone "keeping the peace", which perpetuated #1 brother to keep doing what he was doing. And also trying to not hurt his kids.
He certainly has been stopped. I told him enough was enough and to not ask my parents for another cent. He called me "selfish", like I'm waiting around for their money. His kids have no money, so that's not an issue and he definitely would not ask any of us for money.
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