happymomma
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,078 
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Post by happymomma on Nov 13, 2015 3:16:59 GMT
And if there is, what would I look under in the phone book to find them?
A lawyer? A CPA? I'm at a loss.
Situation: I worked for 27 years at my local hospital, which is county owned. Part of our benefit package included a pension that the hospital paid for for all of those years. Some years ago, the hospital switched to a 401k plan for new hires, but those of us already there stayed on the old pension plan, which is MERS (Municipal Employee's Retirement System). About two years ago I was deemed disabled and was granted the ability to retire early (by 10 years) and I'm drawing my monthly pension at a slightly reduced amount.
Well...now the hospital is being bought out by a bigger health system, as is the trend. I'm a bit nervous because I have no idea how or if that will effect my pension. I've read up around the internet and while I am usually pretty dang good at finding answers to stuff online, I am not having any luck.
I've talked with other retirees of my hospital and a few of them have called MERS and not gotten a solid answer. I will call there myself tomorrow.
In case I don't get a solid answer, I would like to make an appointment with someone local who is educated about these things. The problem is I have no idea who to ask. I thought about calling an investment firm here, but I'm sure they'll just want to get me to invest with them. LOL. I don't know what kind of professional would know the laws about this kind of thing.
I know there are Peas here with knowledge in every area. I am hoping one of you will be able to point me in the right direction of WHO to call.
Thank you.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Nov 13, 2015 3:37:29 GMT
And if there is, what would I look under in the phone book to find them? A lawyer? A CPA? I'm at a loss. Situation: I worked for 27 years at my local hospital, which is county owned. Part of our benefit package included a pension that the hospital paid for for all of those years. Some years ago, the hospital switched to a 401k plan for new hires, but those of us already there stayed on the old pension plan, which is MERS (Municipal Employee's Retirement System). About two years ago I was deemed disabled and was granted the ability to retire early (by 10 years) and I'm drawing my monthly pension at a slightly reduced amount. Well...now the hospital is being bought out by a bigger health system, as is the trend. I'm a bit nervous because I have no idea how or if that will effect my pension. I've read up around the internet and while I am usually pretty dang good at finding answers to stuff online, I am not having any luck. I've talked with other retirees of my hospital and a few of them have called MERS and not gotten a solid answer. I will call there myself tomorrow. In case I don't get a solid answer, I would like to make an appointment with someone local who is educated about these things. The problem is I have no idea who to ask. I thought about calling an investment firm here, but I'm sure they'll just want to get me to invest with them. LOL. I don't know what kind of professional would know the laws about this kind of thing. I know there are Peas here with knowledge in every area. I am hoping one of you will be able to point me in the right direction of WHO to call. Thank you. Short answer is a lawyer. There are lawyers who specialize in employee benefit plans and the regulations (which are extensive) that they must adhere to. Do you know how the purchase was structured? Is the purchaser a publicly traded company and the transaction material? If so they will need to file the purchase agreement and disclosures with the SEC and there will be reps and warranties regarding the pension plan. How the deal is structured will impact how the plan is treated as well as if it's currently compliant with ERISA. As you said you hospital was county owned, it would have to be an asset purchase - it's possible that the acquiring company is going to leave the pension plan with the county. You'd have to look at the actual purchase documents to see how it's structured. |
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Post by workingclassdog on Nov 13, 2015 3:42:56 GMT
Yes.. some CPAs are certified in many areas.. as in financial planning. My boss was an expert in pensions as well as many different type of retirement plans. Not all CPAs are the same so you would want to find one that is more than a CPA.. CPA/CFP.. would be a good start.
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Post by Pahina722 on Nov 13, 2015 3:49:03 GMT
You had a defined benefit plan, which guarantees a specific amount based on your salary, years of service, and age when you begin drawing the pension. That benefit was probably negotiated and was part of your contracted wage and salary package. Its been a while since I was in the pension field, so don't hold me to this, but the fact that your former employer is being bought from the county shouldn't affect your retirement. You are retired, so your former employer isn't making any more contributions for you. You're already drawing benefits and the plan is still in existence as there are other municipal employees, right?
However, the expert is the plan administrator. When you get your statements, at least your year end one, it should list the entity administering the plan. (I used to work for one.) if you can't find the name, MERS should have it. Plan administration can be done in house, by employees of the company, which might be the case for your county employee plan though, if so, that's scary given the lack of info you're receiving. It can also be done by accounting firms, law offices, and dedicated benefit administration firms. If it gets sticky, you might have to contact a labor attorney for advice.
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happymomma
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,078
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Post by happymomma on Nov 13, 2015 3:57:57 GMT
And if there is, what would I look under in the phone book to find them? A lawyer? A CPA? I'm at a loss. Situation: I worked for 27 years at my local hospital, which is county owned. Part of our benefit package included a pension that the hospital paid for for all of those years. Some years ago, the hospital switched to a 401k plan for new hires, but those of us already there stayed on the old pension plan, which is MERS (Municipal Employee's Retirement System). About two years ago I was deemed disabled and was granted the ability to retire early (by 10 years) and I'm drawing my monthly pension at a slightly reduced amount. Well...now the hospital is being bought out by a bigger health system, as is the trend. I'm a bit nervous because I have no idea how or if that will effect my pension. I've read up around the internet and while I am usually pretty dang good at finding answers to stuff online, I am not having any luck. I've talked with other retirees of my hospital and a few of them have called MERS and not gotten a solid answer. I will call there myself tomorrow. In case I don't get a solid answer, I would like to make an appointment with someone local who is educated about these things. The problem is I have no idea who to ask. I thought about calling an investment firm here, but I'm sure they'll just want to get me to invest with them. LOL. I don't know what kind of professional would know the laws about this kind of thing. I know there are Peas here with knowledge in every area. I am hoping one of you will be able to point me in the right direction of WHO to call. Thank you. Short answer is a lawyer. There are lawyers who specialize in employee benefit plans and the regulations (which are extensive) that they must adhere to. Do you know how the purchase was structured? Is the purchaser a publicly traded company and the transaction material? If so they will need to file the purchase agreement and disclosures with the SEC and there will be reps and warranties regarding the pension plan. How the deal is structured will impact how the plan is treated as well as if it's currently compliant with ERISA. As you said you hospital was county owned, it would have to be an asset purchase - it's possible that the acquiring company is going to leave the pension plan with the county. You'd have to look at the actual purchase documents to see how it's structured. No, we don't know, as a community, many details of the sale at all. The whole town is in an uproar because negotiations have been going on for a few years now and just this month a letter of intent was drafted to the entity that our hospital board chose to sell to. There is a huge controversy as to if the taxpayers should have a voice as to if the hospital should even be sold, as it is county owned and has been forever supported by the taxpayers. Our local board of commissioners has lawyers looking into things to see if a vote will be required, where the actual money that the buyers pay for it will go, etc. Big mess. So much secrecy. Thank you for your answer, and yours too workingclassdog. I'm trying not to get riled up over it, but rather start asking questions and get some answers. It won't be a good thing if I lose my pension income and I'd rather just know what if anything I have to do to prepare. |
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Post by Darcy Collins on Nov 13, 2015 4:04:59 GMT
It's highly, highly unlikely you're going to lose your pension. Particularly if the hospital was county owned. Really the only time retirees are unpleasantly surprised is when either a company goes bankrupt or an asset sale occurs and the pension is left out of the deal (typically if it is underfunded) if the underfunded pension plan stays with the seller - usually they will find themselves with the first group (ie bankrupt). Pensions are insured under ERISA, so even in that case they don't lose their entire pension. But if the pension is above certain limits, the retiree could lose part of it during a bankruptcy proceeding. In your case, if the pension didn't go with the seller, you're part of the COUNTY - they're doubtful to go bankrupt.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Nov 13, 2015 4:13:25 GMT
I need to clarify - ERISA is for private plans. So in actuality a public employee plan would not be insured by ERISA. I imagine it's backed by the municipality - but I'm not very familiar with public plans.
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happymomma
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,078
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Post by happymomma on Nov 13, 2015 4:17:22 GMT
You had a defined benefit plan, which guarantees a specific amount based on your salary, years of service, and age when you begin drawing the pension. That benefit was probably negotiated and was part of your contracted wage and salary package. Its been a while since I was in the pension field, so don't hold me to this, but the fact that your former employer is being bought from the county shouldn't affect your retirement. You are retired, so your former employer isn't making any more contributions for you. You're already drawing benefits and the plan is still in existence as there are other municipal employees, right? However, the expert is the plan administrator. When you get your statements, at least your year end one, it should list the entity administering the plan. (I used to work for one.) if you can't find the name, MERS should have it. Plan administration can be done in house, by employees of the company, which might be the case for your county employee plan though, if so, that's scary given the lack of info you're receiving. It can also be done by accounting firms, law offices, and dedicated benefit administration firms. If it gets sticky, you might have to contact a labor attorney for advice. The hospital is currently county-owned and is being bought by a large medical system with other hospitals. So it will no longer be county-owned, and therefore no longer a municipality, from the little I understand. I would think that would make the new owners no longer eligible to be in partnership with MERS which is a retirement program for municipalities. The hospital, a few contracts ago, stopped providing newly hired employees this MERS plan, and instead gave them a 401k retirement plan. So, I don't know how that works. I assume the hospital is still paying into MERS for the older employee base, as we kept our MERS plans and some hospital employees still had the old MERS plan and some had 401k. MERS itself is still in existence, as there are other employers still connected to it throughout the state. I don't know what will happen with the retirements of those that are still going to be employed there after the buyout. And as selfish as it is for me to say, I am not concerned about that. I have no clue who my plan administrator is. I get a quarterly funds statement but all that shows is how much they have paid me that quarter and YTD. It doesn't list anyone's name. If it is in-house, I am not one bit surprised that there isn't any information being given, as the administration of the hospital has kept everything very secret regarding the sale, and quite frankly, our HR girls, who guided me through my retirement process were not very knowledgeable with even the basics then. As I said, I will contact MERS directly tomorrow. I just want to be aware of what direction to go in for advice should I not get any answers from them, as some other retirees have already tried and failed. I appreciate the help of everyone here so so so much. As I am sure you can understand, I am nervous. Hopefully I have nothing to worry about. I'm not normally one to 'borrow trouble' but I have a few financial decisions coming up and don't want to make a move and regret it. |
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Post by Darcy Collins on Nov 13, 2015 4:22:54 GMT
You had a defined benefit plan, which guarantees a specific amount based on your salary, years of service, and age when you begin drawing the pension. That benefit was probably negotiated and was part of your contracted wage and salary package. Its been a while since I was in the pension field, so don't hold me to this, but the fact that your former employer is being bought from the county shouldn't affect your retirement. You are retired, so your former employer isn't making any more contributions for you. You're already drawing benefits and the plan is still in existence as there are other municipal employees, right? However, the expert is the plan administrator. When you get your statements, at least your year end one, it should list the entity administering the plan. (I used to work for one.) if you can't find the name, MERS should have it. Plan administration can be done in house, by employees of the company, which might be the case for your county employee plan though, if so, that's scary given the lack of info you're receiving. It can also be done by accounting firms, law offices, and dedicated benefit administration firms. If it gets sticky, you might have to contact a labor attorney for advice. The hospital is currently county-owned and is being bought by a large medical system with other hospitals. So it will no longer be county-owned, and therefore no longer a municipality, from the little I understand. I would think that would make the new owners no longer eligible to be in partnership with MERS which is a retirement program for municipalities. The hospital, a few contracts ago, stopped providing newly hired employees this MERS plan, and instead gave them a 401k retirement plan. So, I don't know how that works. I assume the hospital is still paying into MERS for the older employee base, as we kept our MERS plans and some hospital employees still had the old MERS plan and some had 401k. MERS itself is still in existence, as there are other employers still connected to it throughout the state. I don't know what will happen with the retirements of those that are still going to be employed there after the buyout. And as selfish as it is for me to say, I am not concerned about that. I have no clue who my plan administrator is. I get a quarterly funds statement but all that shows is how much they have paid me that quarter and YTD. It doesn't list anyone's name. If it is in-house, I am not one bit surprised that there isn't any information being given, as the administration of the hospital has kept everything very secret regarding the sale, and quite frankly, our HR girls, who guided me through my retirement process were not very knowledgeable with even the basics then. As I said, I will contact MERS directly tomorrow. I just want to be aware of what direction to go in for advice should I not get any answers from them, as some other retirees have already tried and failed. I appreciate the help of everyone here so so so much. As I am sure you can understand, I am nervous. Hopefully I have nothing to worry about. It is actually pretty common to exclude a pension plan - particularly a defined pension plan - from an asset sale. As the hospital is county owned, this isn't a situation where they are buying an entire company. There is less flexibility in that case. Here the buyer sits down with the seller (the county) and negotiates what they want to buy. If they want to leave the pension plan with the county, they can exclude it. If you're going to call MERS, I would ask if the defined benefit plan is part of the transaction and what the termination clauses are for your plan (basically how can the plan be ended). |
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Post by Meri-Lyn on Nov 13, 2015 14:58:27 GMT
The hospital is currently county-owned and is being bought by a large medical system with other hospitals. So it will no longer be county-owned, and therefore no longer a municipality, from the little I understand. I would think that would make the new owners no longer eligible to be in partnership with MERS which is a retirement program for municipalities. The hospital, a few contracts ago, stopped providing newly hired employees this MERS plan, and instead gave them a 401k retirement plan. So, I don't know how that works. I assume the hospital is still paying into MERS for the older employee base, as we kept our MERS plans and some hospital employees still had the old MERS plan and some had 401k. MERS itself is still in existence, as there are other employers still connected to it throughout the state. I don't know what will happen with the retirements of those that are still going to be employed there after the buyout. And as selfish as it is for me to say, I am not concerned about that. I have no clue who my plan administrator is. I get a quarterly funds statement but all that shows is how much they have paid me that quarter and YTD. It doesn't list anyone's name. If it is in-house, I am not one bit surprised that there isn't any information being given, as the administration of the hospital has kept everything very secret regarding the sale, and quite frankly, our HR girls, who guided me through my retirement process were not very knowledgeable with even the basics then. As I said, I will contact MERS directly tomorrow. I just want to be aware of what direction to go in for advice should I not get any answers from them, as some other retirees have already tried and failed. I appreciate the help of everyone here so so so much. As I am sure you can understand, I am nervous. Hopefully I have nothing to worry about. It is actually pretty common to exclude a pension plan - particularly a defined pension plan - from an asset sale. As the hospital is county owned, this isn't a situation where they are buying an entire company. There is less flexibility in that case. Here the buyer sits down with the seller (the county) and negotiates what they want to buy. If they want to leave the pension plan with the county, they can exclude it. If you're going to call MERS, I would ask if the defined benefit plan is part of the transaction and what the termination clauses are for your plan (basically how can the plan be ended). I agree with Darcy. In this case, it sounds like the MERS plan is part of the county, and the hospital you worked for contributed to it. I'm assuming the new health system is a private company, and when they do buy the hospital, the plan will stay with the county. It all depends on how the plan document has been worded. My guess is they will probably freeze service for existing employees, but for former employees already in payout status, the county will just keep on paying them (or the insurance company, or wherever the assets are held.) A pension actuary is the one who keeps track of all the stuff, and typically when a sale or merger is involved, they should have an ERISA attorney looking over these things as well. See if someone at MERS can direct you to the plan's actuary and see if you can have them look at the plan document to see what happens in the event of merger. I do know if the plan terminates, the company still needs to buy annuities to continue payments to those already taking them (unless it is a distress situation). But in this case, I think it's just a matter of the hospital saying, we're not going to participate in the plan anymore, which means new employees can't participate, but existing ones will still get the benefits already accrued. Typically, you can't cut back benefits already accrued, BUT I think Darcy (or Pahina) pointed out a government plan is not always subject to ERISA, they can sometimes make their own rules. I don't think they would have a reason to in this case. |
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Deleted
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May 13, 2024 3:43:45 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2015 20:45:04 GMT
agree with the others. You have the right to ask for a copy of the plan document, but the employer has the right to charge copying costs. Plan documents are not always easy to read and interpret. You are probably actually in a good position if the plan is funded enough since you are already in pay status. Since the hospital is just one small part of the MERS pension group, I would doubt the new employer would take on the plan assets/future expenses and payouts. So I suspect your benefits will stay with the county.
There are times where cutbacks are made to current pension payments and it is allowed under certain circumstances, but I can't tell you if yours would be one of them -- they really are a case by case benefit. The PBGC does insure some plans but not at 100%. And like Darcy said, not sure your governmental plan would fall under ERISA or the PBGC. Governments tended to make themselves not covered under many laws that covered private entities.
Your county will probably be outsourcing to an HR consulting/actuarial firm to handle the pension plan. It would take a pretty large county to afford an actuary and all that comes with that on their own. Just not enough work unless they have a lot of different plans. Generally unless they have a participant help line, you won't be able to ask them questions directly, but should check with HR both for the hospital or county to see if they have a benefits representative.
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happymomma
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,078
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Post by happymomma on Nov 13, 2015 21:48:40 GMT
UPDATE: Thank you so much to those of you who offered your wisdom. I love this place and the helpful people here. I was actually in quite a panic last night when I started this thread. Fear of the unknown.
I just got off the phone with MERS. The gal was very helpful and nice. She had my account information up and said that I can expect to continue to receive my monthly pension payments even after the sale goes through. The hospital will be working with MERS throughout the sale process to guide them through the legalities. The people that are still employed there will be affected (or is it effected, grr I never know) in ways that those already retired will not be.
I do feel a bit better today. Thank you again for your help.
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