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Post by bc2ca on Dec 10, 2015 3:14:30 GMT
DS(16) has been in to talk to his HS counselor twice this year. Once to change a class early in the term and last week to find out what his options are as he is likely to fail a class and wanted to withdraw and take the nonhonors version of the class next semester (requiring dropping an elective). The counselor has advised him it is better to have a F than a W on his transcript, which I have a hard time with because one impacts his GPA and the other doesn't (other classes this semester are 2 As & a B).
DS has to make a final decision early next week and told me today that he hates going in to see his counselor because there are always other kids hanging out in there. It bothered him the first time, and really upset him the second time, that there were at least 3 other kids just hanging out in the room (2-3 on a couch and one sitting at the counselor's desk). Would you expect the couselor to ask the other kids to leave, especially when talking to a student about failing a class?
Any thoughts on the situation would be appreciated - both the F vs W and the expectation of privacy.
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Deleted
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Jun 11, 2024 14:00:25 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2015 3:18:53 GMT
At that age, if there was something the student wanted to speak privately about, I would expect them to tell the counselor so. If the counselor then didn't ask the other students to leave, that would be a problem. Students talk to counselors all the time about non-private things, so I don't think the counselor always needs to assume the student wants privacy.
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GiantsFan
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Jun 27, 2014 14:44:56 GMT
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Post by GiantsFan on Dec 10, 2015 3:22:29 GMT
What busypea said is the way I think too. Your son needs to say he wants privacy.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Dec 10, 2015 3:23:31 GMT
yeah, I would want privacy if I was going to be talking to my guidance counselor, too. I can't recall ever seeing other kids 'hanging around' in their office when I was in high school-- but then again, I thought our guidance counselor was a real knob, so...
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Deleted
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Jun 11, 2024 14:00:25 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2015 3:24:19 GMT
DS(16) has been in to talk to his HS counselor twice this year. Once to change a class early in the term and last week to find out what his options are as he is likely to fail a class and wanted to withdraw and take the nonhonors version of the class next semester (requiring dropping an elective). The counselor has advised him it is better to have a F than a W on his transcript, which I have a hard time with because one impacts his GPA and the other doesn't (other classes this semester are 2 As & a B). DS has to make a final decision early next week and told me today that he hates going in to see his counselor because there are always other kids hanging out in there. It bothered him the first time, and really upset him the second time, that there were at least 3 other kids just hanging out in the room (2-3 on a couch and one sitting at the counselor's desk). Would you expect the couselor to ask the other kids to leave, especially when talking to a student about failing a class? Any thoughts on the situation would be appreciated - both the F vs W and the expectation of privacy. From a college stand point a W is almost always better than an F. I'm sure some pea has the one experience in the nation where the F is preferable. From a privacy standpoint, FERPA protects your son's right to privacy. He shouldn't have to ask for it. Simply because asking for privacy implies a major issue to the other kids and they don't have even the right to know that much. It will lead them to baiting the counselor to tell them what was so secret. Not all adults are good secret keepers; especially when they are wanting to be friends with the ones seeking information from them. Yeah, I'd have an issue.
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Post by freecharlie on Dec 10, 2015 3:25:20 GMT
Our counselors leave the doors open when discussing routine things like class changes, college updates. They close the door on personal issues, failing classes, and grad checks in which the student may not graduate.
However, if a student requested it, they would close the door on any meeting and a high school student should be old enough to make that request
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Post by cindyupnorth on Dec 10, 2015 3:28:28 GMT
How about if your son would ask for a private meeting with the counselor? vs just walked in? KWIM?
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Post by bc2ca on Dec 10, 2015 3:28:33 GMT
Our counselors leave the doors open when discussing routine things like class changes, college updates. They close the door on personal issues, failing classes, and grad checks in which the student may not graduate. However, if a student requested it, they would close the door on any meeting and a high school student should be old enough to make that request I do agree with this, but I also think a counselor shouldn't put the student in the position of having to ask.
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Post by bc2ca on Dec 10, 2015 3:29:37 GMT
How about if your son would ask for a private meeting with the counselor? vs just walked in? KWIM? He'd emailed him saying he needed to talk about the class/grade and was told to come in at lunch the next day.
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Post by bc2ca on Dec 10, 2015 3:31:56 GMT
DS(16) has been in to talk to his HS counselor twice this year. Once to change a class early in the term and last week to find out what his options are as he is likely to fail a class and wanted to withdraw and take the nonhonors version of the class next semester (requiring dropping an elective). The counselor has advised him it is better to have a F than a W on his transcript, which I have a hard time with because one impacts his GPA and the other doesn't (other classes this semester are 2 As & a B). DS has to make a final decision early next week and told me today that he hates going in to see his counselor because there are always other kids hanging out in there. It bothered him the first time, and really upset him the second time, that there were at least 3 other kids just hanging out in the room (2-3 on a couch and one sitting at the counselor's desk). Would you expect the couselor to ask the other kids to leave, especially when talking to a student about failing a class? Any thoughts on the situation would be appreciated - both the F vs W and the expectation of privacy. From a college stand point a W is almost always better than an F. I'm sure some pea has the one experience in the nation where the F is preferable. From a privacy standpoint, FERPA protects your son's right to privacy. He shouldn't have to ask for it. Simply because asking for privacy implies a major issue to the other kids and they don't have even the right to know that much. It will lead them to baiting the counselor to tell them what was so secret. Not all adults are good secret keepers; especially when they are wanting to be friends with the ones seeking information from them. Yeah, I'd have an issue. Thanks voltagain, I was hoping you would check in and appreciate seeing this from the college side of things.
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Post by freecharlie on Dec 10, 2015 3:33:44 GMT
Our counselors leave the doors open when discussing routine things like class changes, college updates. They close the door on personal issues, failing classes, and grad checks in which the student may not graduate. However, if a student requested it, they would close the door on any meeting and a high school student should be old enough to make that request I do agree with this, but I also think a counselor shouldn't put the student in the position of having to ask. some students are uncomfortable with the door closed. In the case of an f, I do think the door should have been closed. In the case of a class change, I dont.
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bandjmom
Full Member
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Jun 25, 2014 23:28:19 GMT
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Post by bandjmom on Dec 10, 2015 3:36:29 GMT
That is very unprofessional on the part of the counselor. As others have mentioned, your ds shouldn't be put in the position of having to ask for others to leave when he has contacted the counselor requesting an appointment. The counselor's first obligation is to assist your ds with his academic issues, not to "hang out" with a group of students.
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Post by worrywart on Dec 10, 2015 3:46:17 GMT
I'm trying to see in what world an F is better than a W?? Is this an experienced counselor or am I out of the loop. F's are bad, avoid if at all possible!
And not sure if you said that he had an appointment or not but if not, make one. If he did and there were others hanging around, he should be direct - 'I'm sorry, I thought we had an appt for 2:00..is there another time when we could talk privately?' etc.
Hope it works out and I have no real knowledge on the F and W, just that W's are better that F's as far as I know...I would never recommend to take an F over a W.
And even if it is a class change...not really private but dang who wants to be having a conversation in an office about your schedule change with 2-3 other students hanging out..that is just strange.
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Post by Belia on Dec 10, 2015 3:50:21 GMT
Re: The W vs. F. I dunno. Wouldn't an F be better to show that the student stuck with it and tried? As opposed to just giving up when the going got rough? There's learning to be done regardless of the grade earned. Just because a student earns an F doesn't mean they didn't learn anything. I think sticking with a class that you're struggling in, even if the final result is an F, shows grit.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2015 3:55:59 GMT
Re: The W vs. F. I dunno. Wouldn't an F be better to show that the student stuck with it and tried? As opposed to just giving up when the going got rough? There's learning to be done regardless of the grade earned. Just because a student earns an F doesn't mean they didn't learn anything. I think sticking with a class that you're struggling in, even if the final result is an F, shows grit. Colleges aren't interested in your "grit" unless that grit gets results above failure. While it is theoretically possible to try hard and get an F it is highly unlikely in today's academic climate. Any kind of struggle will net at least a D. An F means a student didn't try. A w means they recognized early on that things weren't going well and prioritized their work load for maximum success. eta: but in the end colleges don't spend much time philosophizing over the meaning of an F for an individual student. Each grade gets assigned a numerical standard in order to calculate a gpa and that is the end of it. An F will bring down the gpa because it is assigned the value of 0 while a w is not assigned a numerical standard (technically a W is not a grade, is it an enrollment signifier) .
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Post by freecharlie on Dec 10, 2015 4:02:08 GMT
You know, I think I read the op wrong. In my school each counselor has an office and those office open into a big room with computers, chaira, tables, copy machine...
I was assuming the students were not in the actual room, but in like a waiting area.
At no time do our counselors have other students that are not part of the meeting in the actual office, door open or closed.
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gsquaredmom
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Jun 26, 2014 17:43:22 GMT
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Post by gsquaredmom on Dec 10, 2015 4:04:38 GMT
Student gets privacy under the law.
W is better.
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Post by Belia on Dec 10, 2015 4:16:46 GMT
Re: The W vs. F. I dunno. Wouldn't an F be better to show that the student stuck with it and tried? As opposed to just giving up when the going got rough? There's learning to be done regardless of the grade earned. Just because a student earns an F doesn't mean they didn't learn anything. I think sticking with a class that you're struggling in, even if the final result is an F, shows grit. Colleges aren't interested in your "grit" unless that grit gets results above failure. While it is theoretically possible to try hard and get an F it is highly unlikely in today's academic climate. Any kind of struggle will net at least a D. An F means a student didn't try. A w means they recognized early on that things weren't going well and prioritized their work load for maximum success. Hmmm. I don't know if I agree with you- at least at my high school. Especially with standards-based grading in very challenging classes (ex AP Calculus). We don't give extra credit. Either a student demonstrates mastery on a handful of summative assessments throughout the semester, or they don't. Also, high school students don't have the ability to "prioritize their workload for maximum success" like a college student does. At least, not to the same extent. Like, kids have to take a math class every year for their first three years of high school. They don't have the option of dropping all math from their schedule so they can focus on other classes, then go back and pick it up later. Our state- and district-mandated graduation requirements don't allow for that... kids would be in high school for 7 years. Do colleges really want students to be taking the easiest classes possible (or, if I'm being too dramatic for you, just plain easier classes) just for a good GPA? Really? Wouldn't you (as an institution) be better served by a student body that doesn't shrink from a challenge? That is more concerned about learning than a letter? It seems like we (as a society) are trying to have it both ways. We want students to be intrinsically motivated, learn for the love of learning, "I wish there wasn't so much emphasis on grades! My kid is so stressed out all the time!" But then a class gets hard and the first thought is "Drop it! His GPA will suffer!" I'm probably just testy because I've had probably half a dozen kids want to drop classes this week alone... and their current grade is a B or C. They're "just not interested anymore." Or it's too much work to get that C. Why bother working when they can just take XXX class and get an easy A? Anyway... This is a tough week and a touchy subject for me. Carry on!!!
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AnotherPea
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Jan 4, 2015 1:47:52 GMT
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Post by AnotherPea on Dec 10, 2015 11:32:40 GMT
I would expect conversations about grades to be kept private. I would also expect a 16 year old to not discuss things publically that he didn't want to be public knowledge.
I can't imagine a scenario where an F would be better than a W. But I also can't imagine a high school that allows students to withdraw from classes.
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Post by littlemama on Dec 10, 2015 11:56:58 GMT
The counselor is unprofessional. All conversations in the counselor's office should be private. The student should not have to request privacy. On the second part, I'm amazed that students in high school have the option to withdraw from a class. At our school, schedule changes are allowed the first week or so of each semester and that's it. I would think withdrawing would be better than failing, unless retaking the class would replace the original grade.
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Post by LavenderLayoutLady on Dec 10, 2015 11:59:09 GMT
What busypea said is the way I think too. Your son needs to say he wants privacy. I agree.
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teddyw
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Jun 29, 2014 1:56:04 GMT
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Post by teddyw on Dec 10, 2015 12:01:48 GMT
At my kids' school you must sign up for an appointment to see the counselor. No one else is in the room with them.
On a side note I feel like when I sub for the nurse at the HS sick kids have no privacy either. They are in one room with 3 cots surrounded by curtains.
Kids need privacy in both places.
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melissa
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Jun 25, 2014 20:45:00 GMT
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Post by melissa on Dec 10, 2015 15:31:35 GMT
I would absolutely take the W over an F.
There are colleges that use GPA cut offs. A 0 will do massive damage on the GPA calculation. He may need to explain the W in his apps or be prepared to explain it at any interviews, etc.
As far as privacy, I think it is highly unprofessional on the part of the counselor to have other students present.
Are there other counselors? If so, can he switch? I would without hesitation. This counselor seems lacking in knowledge and in professional conduct.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2015 15:33:37 GMT
I think he should have had more privacy, but honestly I've never heard that a HS kid could "drop" or withdraw from a class except for absence/health reasons regardless of the grade they are getting and then they withdraw from ALL classes, not just one. I've known it is available in colleges, but have never seen it at the HS level. However, I think in your son's case it is best to W.
Our students can change classes the first week or two, but we only have 4 classes a semester and if you miss one class, it is truly like missing two days of a regular class. So the later they wait the harder it is to switch.
Maybe it occurs and I have just never been in a situation to know about it though.
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