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Post by smalltowngirlie on Dec 31, 2015 13:45:13 GMT
I know everyone grieves a different way that is why I am asking here, I know you ladies will be able to help me.
My sister died very suddenly and very unexpectedly on October 11th of this year. I was with my niece last night and asked how her dad was doing. She said she was very upset because he has been hanging out with a new woman. The new woman has already spent the night a couple times, one son still lives with my BIL and would know this. For Christmas my niece was talking to her dad about the meal and she said she was going to cook it at her place and then bring it down. BIL said that he would pick everything up because new girl wants to cook it.
You need to know that my sister was a caretaker and one way she did that was through cooking. She loved to cook big giant meals for everything, so holiday meals were/are very special. This was the first Christmas without their mom, my niece wanted to cook in honor of he rmom and BIL brings someone new in.
My BIL loved being taken care of so my sister was perfect for him, but I know he did not always show it. Everyday he posts some meme on Facebook about missing a loved one, and I know he was devastated when my sister died, I don't doubt that for a second.
I will be honest and say I think this is a little soon. I get my BIL may find someone else for comfort, but I think making them a primary part of the first Christmas was too much for the kids, even though they are all adults.
My question, how can I help my niece work through this. I don't feel I can tell BIL he needs to slow it down with this person, I need to help my niece.
TIA
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gloryjoy
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Jun 26, 2014 12:35:32 GMT
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Post by gloryjoy on Dec 31, 2015 13:50:57 GMT
I would suggest your niece get grief counseling.
I agree it seems too early, but you can't control what other people do. All you/she can control is yourself.
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Post by mikklynn on Dec 31, 2015 13:51:12 GMT
I'm so sorry for your loss.
I don't have specific advice, but I can say your niece needs you and I am glad you are there for her. I'm sure you need her, too.
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Post by LavenderLayoutLady on Dec 31, 2015 13:54:44 GMT
It sounds trite, but everyone grieves in their own way. I think I would offer the niece a sympathetic ear, but no BIL bashing.
I am sorry that everyone is hurting. There is no fix for losing someone so dear.
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Post by Really Red on Dec 31, 2015 13:56:00 GMT
I am so so sorry for your loss. How devastating for your nieces and nephews to have someone so quickly in their lives. I'm sure you are correct about your BIL, but this is FAST for pretty much anyone.
Your niece is the one who has to talk to her dad. She can do that kindly and gently and saying exactly what you said here. She can say she's happy for her dad that he found someone, but that there are a few things that mean a lot to her and her siblings and they need to move just a bit slower. He can't know that unless someone tells him, right? She needs to share her hurt and devastation without stepping on his toes and the new lady's toes.
It's hard and I am really sorry about your sister.
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Post by myboysnme on Dec 31, 2015 13:57:46 GMT
Some people cannot be alone. They just cannot. They take the first opportunity that presents itself. In a weird way it is him saying he cannot go on without your sister and he must have someone to fill the void.
I don't know anything about his history before your sister, but if you help your niece see that the loneliness makes it impossible for him to get up in the morning and do what he needs to do, and see this woman as his way of coping with that overwhelming need.
It does not make it easy for his daughter, or for you, her sister, but he isn't thinking about any of that. He is only thinking about filling the void.
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Deleted
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Jun 2, 2024 6:43:43 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2015 13:58:35 GMT
I'm so very sorry for the loss of your sister. Be there for your neice, offer her any help she needs and love her. Your BIL will work things out for himself, even if that means making a mistake or two along the way.
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Post by originalvanillabean on Dec 31, 2015 13:59:43 GMT
I agree with grief counseling for your niece.
Also, be a great listener. I'm so sorry, it does seem too soon.
Could be that he has been taken care of for so long that he doesn't know how to operate otherwise. Maybe he was telling new girl how fabulous your sister was and she is trying to fill the void. (Not saying it's right)
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Post by smalltowngirlie on Dec 31, 2015 14:02:52 GMT
I do not and will not bash my BIL. From the day my sister died I told him and supported him to do what was right for him and his family. He had a few people chewing him out because he was doing things wrong. That would be an entire thread in itself, we call her the psycho funeral crasher.
I can step back and see why he would be with someone so soon, but I am not his daughter.
I will always be there for my niece and nephews in whatever way they need me.
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Post by blarneygirl on Dec 31, 2015 14:18:21 GMT
I'm so very sorry for your loss. Your hurt can only be compounded by the sudden very involved relationship. When my MIL passed away, my FIL became involved with a woman right away like your BIL. They went out to dinner, took all sorts of trips, and did other things my FIL never did as extravagantly with his wife. It really hurt his kids to see this woman treated in this way. I think some people cannot bear the loss and react in all sorts of ways. Less than a year from my MIL's passing, my FIL did marry the same woman. It was really hard on his kids, even tho they were all adults, and near adults. I think as the years passed, his kids understood better, that their father just couldn't be alone.
It's a shame, your BIL and this new woman can't be more sensitive to how they conduct themselves. I'm sorry for that.
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gsquaredmom
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Jun 26, 2014 17:43:22 GMT
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Post by gsquaredmom on Dec 31, 2015 14:19:50 GMT
I am sorry for your loss. I have a bit of a guess, not to excuse his behavior, but perhaps to explain it. Your sister cared for him. He was happy. I have heard that men who were happily married tend to remarry pretty quickly. Everyone else thinks it is too soon, but in a weird sort of way, it's a testament to how happy he was with your sister. Also, in this case, a testament for a need for a caretaker who is not his daughter. She needs counseling to work through her grief and this new dynamic. Bottom line is he gets to live his own life and he is trying to get things "back to normal " where he is most comfortable, regardless of the comfort levels of those around him.
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MDscrapaholic
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Jun 25, 2014 20:49:07 GMT
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Post by MDscrapaholic on Dec 31, 2015 14:22:44 GMT
I am sorry your niece is feeling this way, I think I would too. It's just too soon.
That said, everyone grieves differently. Some people are more susceptible when they are grieving and allow others to move quickly when they normally would not. Perhaps this other woman is taking advantage of your BIL? That would be one way to look at it.
It's a difficult situation no matter what. I would not say anything unless I was really close with him. It is very tough being alone after losing your spouse, but some people manage to deal with it better than others.
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TankTop
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Jun 28, 2014 1:52:46 GMT
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Post by TankTop on Dec 31, 2015 14:25:30 GMT
I am so sorry for your loss.
My thought is your niece is an adult. If she wanted to cook, and it was important to her to do so, she should have cooked. She could tell her father that this is what she is doing and he was more than welcome to come to her place and join her. If he did not want to, they could meet up after the meal.
It is one thing to accept what BIL is doing to get through this time, but niece needs to be encouraged to do the same. Kwim?
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Post by jenjie on Dec 31, 2015 14:25:41 GMT
I am so so sorry, first of all for the death of your sister. And then for this new development. I can only guess that there are a few things going on. BIL is probably numb and hurting badly, trying to fill that lonely space. I would like to think if he was in his right mind, he would see there is nobody and nothing that could fill the void left by your sister's absence. Certainly not this soon. That this is not a good substitute. He may have big regrets when he "wakes up" from this fog.
It is very easy to get lost in your own thoughts and think you're the only one hurting here. I do it all the time. But I have people in my life who remind me to think of my kids. They care for my heart and remind me to care for the hearts of my kids. They ask about them. They give me food for thought. Things to do, questions to ask, etc.
It wasn't my idea to take my kids away over Christmas. I would have rather gone to bed the last week of November and stayed there till January. But when you are a parent you can't do that. So at the suggestion of friends, I talked to my kids and we formulated a plan that would include Fred's family (spending Christmas day with them) and then allow us to spend a few days away, still leaving us a few days of downtime before they go back to school. I asked them about what they wanted to do about decorating and baking and such.
I knew it would be hard for me. I wasn't wrong. But it was good for them. And frankly I could be sad at Hershey Park or sad at home. The location wasn't going to change that.
OK my whole point was to say that he needs someone to come alongside, to speak the truth in love. It will probably need to be a good friend. Not you. Maybe ask some open ended questions that may help him think about why he is rushing to bring a new woman into his life. Let him feel like he is being heard and understood. Bite your tongue. And gently remind him that he has kids to think about. Kids who need their dad to show that they are his priority.
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kathyb
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Dec 29, 2014 22:50:04 GMT
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Post by kathyb on Dec 31, 2015 14:53:50 GMT
Sorry to hear of your loss. My Dad died in 2014, after 34 years of ill health. My Mum started counselling about 3 months later and is still having it now, 19 months down the line.she was my Dads main career with me helping out as often as I could. We had all our firsts last year, first Christmas etc. I was desperate not to do what we did the year before have an identical day, but without Dad there. In the end we pretty much did.
Once the one year anniversary passed literally overnight things got much easier, as it was then 2 years since X had happened, and at that time Dad was not as unwell as he became. The Time leading up to the one year anniversary was hard, as we were recalling conversations with him and Doctors and several rapid declines in his health, which left him mentally fine but in a body that was physically worn beyond repair.
I would suggest counselling too. I never took it, but probably should have. Mum certainly has benefitted from it. Time also helps, and I say this from experience which is why I wanted to share some of my story.
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Post by disneypal on Dec 31, 2015 15:25:05 GMT
Gosh - that is really tough but I am with you about this all happening rather fast. When my brother suddenly passed last year, my sister-in-law was devastated - so heartbroken. We were all so worried because she actually seemed suicidal at times. They were best of friends. A year later, she is doing better but not a whole lot - she says she can't imagine loving anyone else.
My heart goes out to your niece. That would be a hard thing to accept so soon. Maybe you SHOULD talk to your BIL about it - tell him that you want him to be happy but that it is just a bit too much, too soon for his daughter and ask if he can be a bit more mindful of her feelings.
I'm sorry for your loss - it is really hard to lose a sibling.
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Post by Dori~Mama~Bear on Dec 31, 2015 15:26:09 GMT
I am sorry that you lost your sister and your bil is having a hard time. I do believe that he is replacing your sister with this new woman. He thinks that he is liking her for her and that he wants her there on the first Christmas without his wife. because he can't do it by himself. He needs that new person there to give him someone to have beside him. So he is not without. I know when I lost my mom the first Christmas was HELL! and we had almost 1 year to deal with losing mom. It isn't that your Bil is over your sister. It is because he misses her so much he had to find comfort with another.
This might upset the kids and If I was the daughter I wouldn't cook at my house I would cook at dads house. I would have sat him down and talked to him about it. But it is always easier said then done in most situations like this.
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caro
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Post by caro on Dec 31, 2015 15:35:39 GMT
I've always heard and seen that men tend to grieve differently. And having a new person filling the void quickly happens.
The only thing you can do is be there for your nieces and nephews and encourage grief counseling for her.
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Post by moveablefeast on Dec 31, 2015 16:07:52 GMT
This is a salve he is trying to apply to his broken heart. He thinks it will make the hurt go away - consciously or unconsciously.
So my advice is, look at it as a sign of his sadness and grief - as a manifestation of his very broken heart - even if we all know it doesn't really work that way and he is not going to fix his broken heart by finding someone new to be with.
I have so much sympathy for the pain everyone must still be experiencing. I have walked through a similar experience too, and come out the other side just mostly struck by what people will do when they are hurting. This is very normal.
I think grief counseling or a grief group would be an excellent idea.
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Post by Skellinton on Dec 31, 2015 16:40:32 GMT
Men are hard wired differently, they just are. I am sorry for your loss, and the way your niece is feeling. She can't change her dad, or prevent him from making mistakes. She can be there for her brother who is still at home and grieve herself. I wish she had just made the dinner she planned as I am sure that word have brought her comfort. I agree she should be seeing someone who specializes in grief counseling or find a support group. Hugs to you and your sister's family.
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scrappert
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Jul 11, 2014 21:20:09 GMT
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Post by scrappert on Dec 31, 2015 16:52:20 GMT
Oh this is so hard! My sister and I are your niece and your BIL is our Dad. My mom passed away suddenly, 39 years of marriage. A couple of months later, my dad was spending a lot of time with R. We had a hard time with this, but some things that may be different is that my sister and I were no where near my Dad. He lived 6 hours from me and states away from my sister. He really had no one. I struggled with these feelings of it being too soon and anger. Luckily, I was seeing a counselor at the time. The one thing she said to me that has stuck out for me and I use this to this day (it has been 6 1/2 years now)
"Would you like for your Dad to be alone and lonely or have companionship and be happy?"
It took a while for me to talk to my Dad about my feelings. Once we did, it really opened up a lot of communication with him and what he was going through. I would suggest your niece talk to her dad. Express her feelings, since he is a guy, he may not realize what cooking may have meant to her. He may be thinking he was helping her out by not having to cook. She may really be surprised by what he says.
I have to add that my Dad is still with R. I can't imagine what she was feeling with my sister and I, the anger we must have shown her or what she may have felt coming from us. She is a very nice person! As time goes by, we include her more and more. It still rings true, I want my Dad to be happy.
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eleezybeth
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Post by eleezybeth on Dec 31, 2015 17:04:04 GMT
How do you help your niece... Well, don't let her take her father's choices personally. Yes, you point blank tell her that. You explain that his grief about the loss of his wife is his just as she would not like anybody to tell her how to grieve for her mother. Ask her why it bugs her and listen for the comments that explain that she feels her mother is forgotten. Ask her if that is really true and to challenge that evidence. If the answer is different, do the same thing- does the evidence really reflect that. Encourage her to talk to her father about her feelings regarding her loss. Encourage her to just talk about her mom. Grief is a normal reaction and there is no normal reaction to it. Explain that the need for her father to fill the void in his life is truly a testament to your mother. How special she must have been to leave a void so big that in order to not feel pain her father filled it quickly.
Having been in this situation, I can tell you it is a gut check to see someone "move on" quickly but when you address your own feelings it helps. I'm not saying it is any easier 6 years later to look at the other woman and think it was a good choice but now we reflect on HER vs. FIL's choices.
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pridemom
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Post by pridemom on Dec 31, 2015 17:14:28 GMT
It's not uncommon for men to find someone quickly after losing their wife. If the marriage was good, they crave and seek it again. If the wife took care of them well, they often can't handle being without that caregiver. We had a family friend who just couldn't stand to eat meals alone when his wife died. He started meeting a former coworker for dinner and they married within a year of his first wife's death. They're still happy 18 years later.
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MerryMom
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Post by MerryMom on Dec 31, 2015 17:22:33 GMT
I read somewhere that widowed men who were happily married tend to remarry quickly. Widowers Are Eager for Another Whirl By ELIZABETH OLSON WHEN Paul McCartney announced last month that he had split with his wife, Heather Mills, the talk around the coffee cart was all about what caused the breakup. Was she too demanding? Did the friction with his children doom them? And why on earth didn't he get a prenuptial agreement? But for sociologists and marriage counselors, what was notable was not why the four-year-old marriage broke up, but why it happened in the first place. Mr. McCartney, after all, was married for 29 years to Linda Eastman. By all accounts, it was a blissfully happy union, a full partnership that produced three children and ended only when she died of breast cancer in 1998. But for precisely all those reasons, experts say, Mr. McCartney was open to love the second time around. "For men whose marriage ends only because of death there is often a desire to repeat the happiness they knew," said Susan Shapiro Barash, who teaches gender studies at Marymount Manhattan College. "These men love being married, and they are good husband material." Yet, for Mr. McCartney, it was the logical thing to do. As the old adage goes, when there is a death in a marriage, women mourn, men replace. Sociologists have been studying the phenomenon for decades and conclude that it goes beyond mere demographics. It boils down to differences between the sexes: While both men and women want companionship and security, many women might be more cautious about taking a new man into their lives and tend to hold out for romance.
Men, on the other hand, typically seek someone to organize their world, the everyday household tasks, their social lives and to keep them company.
"It's really about having someone to talk to and not having to come home to an empty house at night," she said.Over all, there are no government statistics on the number of widowers who remarry. Yet the Census Bureau estimates that 10 times as many widowers as widows over 65 remarry, though there are fewer older men than older women. Remarriages strike a sensitive chord in most families. Many people can relate their own tales of a father or grandfather or uncle, who one day was nursing his wife through a long, painful illness, then spending weeks sadly moping around the home, before leaping back into dating only months later. That's because men grieve differently from women, bereavement counselors say. They talk less — it's a rarity to find a man at a group bereavement counseling session, they say — and usually cry less in public. Instead they look for things to do and ways to move on. "In grief, men will often look for an activity," said Tom Golden, a social worker in Gaithersburg, Md., who wrote "Swallowed by a Snake: the Gift of the Masculine Side of Healing," about men's grief. "Men spend more time around grave sites, tending them as a sign of their grief rather than talking or crying," Mr. Golden said. "People may not see it, so they assume men are not dealing with their grief, but they are, just in different ways." Mr. Kondracke, who is also a Fox News commentator, said he was very happy to find that he could replicate the happiness of his first marriage. "I consider myself very lucky," he said, "to have been able to do it twice in the same lifetime." Link >>>>> link
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Post by PEArfect on Dec 31, 2015 20:31:21 GMT
You explain that his grief about the loss of his wife is his just as she would not like anybody to tell her how to grieve for her mother. This is my opinion as well. You are right, we all grieve differently. Each relationship with the deceased loved one is different. Unfortunately, I have personal experience with both being a widow and losing a parent. My mother died three months before my husband died. Being widowed is a strange thing to have in common with a parent. It has made for some interesting conversations and challenging situations. Especially with my daughters.
Your niece will hopefully realize that her mom could never be replaced, and her dad will always love and miss her. My dad is dating. He will talk to me about the woman he is dating, but in the next breath tell me how much he misses my mom. Do I want to hear about the woman he is dating? Not really, but I get it. I listen. I want him to find happiness again. My mom wouldn't want him to be alone either. Sometimes dating makes you miss them even more, so I can't really say it's for comfort. I think it's just a part of the grieving process and taking small steps forward.
You can't put a time frame on grieving. There is no such thing as 'to soon' or 'get over it already.' Those comments always seem to come from those that haven't lost a spouse. Don't judge, be supportive would be my advice to anyone that is related to or friends with a widow or widower.
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Post by bethquiroz on Dec 31, 2015 20:51:02 GMT
I am very sorry for the loss of your sister. My brother died suddenly in September, so I know a lot of what you're going through.
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Post by lisacharlotte on Dec 31, 2015 20:56:43 GMT
Intellectually I understand the dynamic. However, it really pisses me off to think I'm so easily replaceable by another person as long as it's female.
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tduby1
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Post by tduby1 on Dec 31, 2015 21:40:19 GMT
Some people cannot be alone. They just cannot. They take the first opportunity that presents itself. In a weird way it is him saying he cannot go on without your sister and he must have someone to fill the void. I believe this is absolutely true and I believe it will true if my mom ever passes before my dad. In fact my mom has TOLD us she believes dad will move on quickly, much quicker than we will be ready for, if she dies first. She's asked us to be accepting. They've been married 50 years and he's devoted to her, so her belief is not a reflection of a negative marriage. However, there are 13 of us kids and I guarantee, if it happens this way, there will be some over protective siblings making the poor woman's life hell. For the OP, I agree your niece needs grief counseling. It seems your BIL has found his and it seems unfair to begrudge him it. ETA: I think it's clear you are not doing this and maybe counseling will help DN not to. Also, she had expectations and she is very disappointed everyone wasn't on the same page. I get this. Though neither of my parents have passed yet, I always assumed if mom passed first, we'd invite dad to move in with us. (Mom is much more independant and i can't see her moving in with anyone.) in the last year I've come to realize, via conversations with my parents, that dad will more than likely finish out his years at their winter home on Florida, if mom passed first, with trips home few and far between, if at all. Florida is where he is happiest. He hates leaving and chomps at the bit to get back. in my situation I've been lucky enough to have these conversations with my parents and come to terms with our different visions. Your niece was not only blindsided with your sister's death but also with her fathers different vision on holidays post death. Also, I am sorry about her death.
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Post by julieinsweden on Dec 31, 2015 21:50:42 GMT
Some people cannot be alone. They just cannot. They take the first opportunity that presents itself. In a weird way it is him saying he cannot go on without your sister and he must have someone to fill the void. I don't know anything about his history before your sister, but if you help your niece see that the loneliness makes it impossible for him to get up in the morning and do what he needs to do, and see this woman as his way of coping with that overwhelming need. It does not make it easy for his daughter, or for you, her sister, but he isn't thinking about any of that. He is only thinking about filling the void. Exactly. We lost my dad to cancer. Six weeks later my mum was dating again. It was very hard for my sister and I to see her behaving like a love struck teenager. I agree with others that your niece needs to let her dad know how she needs to grieve. Then work out a comprise that works for everyone. Sorry for your loss.
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Post by polz on Dec 31, 2015 22:08:31 GMT
Intellectually I understand the dynamic. However, it really pisses me off to think I'm so easily replaceable by another person as long as it's female. This is how I feel too.
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