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Post by justcindy on Jul 26, 2014 5:18:39 GMT
I just read in another thread about concern over AC buying bazzill...why the worry? Have they said they are going to change the cardstock, or stop producing? That scenario I can't fathom....I've used Bazzill all my scrapbookin' life!
I don't know what all these mergers and buyouts mean - I know it shows a shaky market, but I don't think AC would do something to jeopardize a stable money maker, meaning the cardstock....? And what about all the small companies it's scooping up - is the worry that they won't exist anymore, or that all the companies under the AC umbrella will all look the same, or something else my foggy mind isn't seeing?
Hope I'm not starting a bru-ha-ha, I'm just curious as to what everyone thinks this means, and what it will change for the little companies.
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Post by miominmio on Jul 26, 2014 7:34:50 GMT
Where I live, the takeover of bazzill has meant white canvas and kraft is impossible to find. Even the biggest store here (6000 sqf of scrappy goodness) doesn't get their orders. So yes, I'm worried. Monopoly is rarely a good thing for customers, it usually means less choice, inferior quality and more expensive product, so I believe quality will go down, prices will go up and availability will go out the window as AC takes over more and more companies. Hopefully, some of the European manufacturers will start making cardstock and not just paper, because the quality is great (even though the paper is not my style).
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 23, 2024 18:37:44 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2014 7:50:25 GMT
I don't like the idea of a monopoly. I'm not all that knowledgeable about marketing and economics and all that kind of stuff. No business background, so maybe I'm just not savvy enough to understand what it all means. Will it mean that new companies have a harder time getting a start with one company owning most brands? Less variety? Predominance of the style of their choice? And, if for some reason they overstretch themselves, I could see the whole SB industry going down. Like I said, I am not that knowledgeable about business so maybe I am totally off base.
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Chinagirl828
Drama Llama
Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 6,682
Jun 28, 2014 6:28:53 GMT
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Post by Chinagirl828 on Jul 26, 2014 8:24:44 GMT
I think one of the concerns of AC buying Bazzill is the quality of the product. There have been plenty of examples of quality issues with other brands under the AC umbrella. There is also the fact that AC has its own brand of cardstock so while Bazzill may complement the range AC has, this may also be a way to eliminate the competition.
AC buying out lots of smaller companies is a catch 22. While it's great that the companies are able to continue to design the products we love them for, it is a scary position when one company owns so much of the market.
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tiffanytwisted
Pearl Clutcher
you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave
Posts: 4,538
Jun 26, 2014 15:57:39 GMT
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Post by tiffanytwisted on Jul 26, 2014 13:40:06 GMT
This is what I'm worrying about. I love the texture of that cs and would be heartbroken if it changed. There are also certain colors that I use often and would hate to see them change or disappear.
I believe they've said they have no intention of changing the cs, but ya never know.
Like scrapn4keeps, I know nothing about business, so I won't speculate on that aspect.
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Post by Crazyhare on Jul 26, 2014 14:12:10 GMT
Large companies can have money troubles. Just think what will happen if American Crafts runs into trouble. Lots of brands could be lost. Just because they are a large company doesn't mean that they can't run into problems.
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Post by karensay on Jul 26, 2014 14:28:05 GMT
Is AC going to continue to make their CS AND the Bazzill.
Is AC going to continue making WRMK albums and refills AND their own brand?
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gloryjoy
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,332
Jun 26, 2014 12:35:32 GMT
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Post by gloryjoy on Jul 26, 2014 14:32:37 GMT
I don't think it's a good thing to have a monopoly, that is my concern.
As for quality, I can think of lots of scrapbooking items that have gone down in quality over the years, it happens. Production costs go up and companies have to find ways to cut costs. Not saying I like it, but I understand it.
And I must be the odd man out on cardstock. For years all I could get was Bazzill, it was all I bought. Then I discovered AC cardstock, now it is all I will buy. I like their color palette and I love the way it cuts in my Cricut and Cameo.
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Post by myshelly on Jul 26, 2014 16:29:37 GMT
Lots of concerns
#1 - A company does not always buy out another company to continue running it. Sometimes they buy it out in order to eliminate competition.
#2 - if ac goes under we lose all these brands.
#3 - if ac gets in financial trouble they start eliminating the brands they acquired one by one.
#4 - the brands will now all be mnftrd by ac. No guarantee that they will retain their previous quality or uniqueness.
#5 - monopolies are bad for oh so many reasons
#6 - less competition, less uniqueness, fewer new ideas
I could go on and on. I also just think it is generally undesirable to see previously small, family owned businesses be acquired by a large, faceless corporation.
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Post by justcindy on Jul 26, 2014 16:53:39 GMT
well holy crap my eyes are opened now....I guess I was trying to think about something when I was obviously too tired to make sense of anything, LOL! I need to get out more, I keep picturing Richard Gere's character from pretty woman in my head when I think of AC...buying all the little guys out. Thanks for the enlightenment, I understand now why it's a concern.
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Post by justcindy on Jul 26, 2014 16:56:43 GMT
I don't like the idea of a monopoly. I'm not all that knowledgeable about marketing and economics and all that kind of stuff. No business background, so maybe I'm just not savvy enough to understand what it all means. Will it mean that new companies have a harder time getting a start with one company owning most brands? Less variety? Predominance of the style of their choice? And, if for some reason they overstretch themselves, I could see the whole SB industry going down. Like I said, I am not that knowledgeable about business so maybe I am totally off base. Betsy, this is how I am - I've been out of school long enough to forget all I'm supposed to know about this stuff. I'm embarrassed at how little I *do* understand about it anymore. And you put my worries perfectly - I'm bummed to think that everything will start to look the same, for production's sake - same textures, same dye colors, etc. the variety will be kaput.
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Post by anniefb on Jul 26, 2014 19:45:22 GMT
I saw a comment from Nancy Nally on Scrapbook Update that AC card stock just couldn't compete with Bazzill and since Darice had bought Core’dinations, it was in AC's interests to have a really strong product to sell. Of course as others have said that doesn't mean they will keep Bazzill going. They might have bought it to take it out of circulation.
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PaperAngel
Prolific Pea
Posts: 7,996
Jun 27, 2014 23:04:06 GMT
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Post by PaperAngel on Jul 26, 2014 22:20:32 GMT
A monopoly inherently means only one company controls an industry. In theory, lack of competition enables that company to dictate prices, availability, quality, & types of products offered, which shrinks an industry, dilutes creativity, & eliminates choices for customers.
Regarding American Crafts, its quality has deteriorated over the years yet the company continues to acquire small boutiques. Most of the brands under the AC umbrella have been streamlined in design, offer the same type of products just in different packaging, & often decrease in popularity shortly after acquisition! Since it seems redundant to continue producing two brands of textured cardstock, the fear is that AC will eventually discontinue/eliminate Bazzill.
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Chinagirl828
Drama Llama
Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 6,682
Jun 28, 2014 6:28:53 GMT
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Post by Chinagirl828 on Jul 26, 2014 23:28:04 GMT
A monopoly inherently means only one company controls an industry. In theory, lack of competition enables that company to dictate prices, availability, quality, & types of products offered, which shrinks an industry, dilutes creativity, & eliminates choices for customers.
Exactly! From a shopping perspective we want real choice, not the pretend choice between AC brands where every dollar still goes back to them.
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breetheflea
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,588
Location: PNW
Jul 20, 2014 21:57:23 GMT
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Post by breetheflea on Jul 27, 2014 0:08:14 GMT
A monopoly inherently means only one company controls an industry. In theory, lack of competition enables that company to dictate prices, availability, quality, & types of products offered, which shrinks an industry, dilutes creativity, & eliminates choices for customers.
Exactly! From a shopping perspective we want real choice, not the pretend choice between AC brands where every dollar still goes back to them. and where everything is made in China...
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scrapnnana
Drama Llama
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Jun 29, 2014 18:58:47 GMT
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Post by scrapnnana on Jul 27, 2014 2:31:54 GMT
Applying a real life scenario:
McDonald's bought the Roy Roger's chain. They closed every single one that was anywhere near a McDonald's. There are relatively few Roy Roger's still open. McDonald's bought them to get rid of the competition.
This is what I am afraid is happening (or is going to happen) to scrapping companies bought out by American Crafts, or any other company. Have they been bought to get rid of the competition? I can't help but wonder.
I will be delighted if I am wrong.
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Deleted
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Nov 23, 2024 18:37:44 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2014 3:20:48 GMT
I also just think it is generally undesirable to see previously small, family owned businesses be acquired by a large, faceless corporation. Didn't that exact thing happen to Two Peas? I would hate for them to stop manufacturing Bazzill!! I emailed AC directly asking about the Orange Peel Bazzill and they said that they do not have any intention of discontinuing it. But we'll see.
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lisavb
Full Member
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Jun 25, 2014 21:49:19 GMT
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Post by lisavb on Jul 28, 2014 14:01:22 GMT
AC has no plans to stop producing these brands. They understand how popular Bazzill is and wanted to add a strong cardstock brand to their umbrella. During the transition, Bazzill stopped production of their papers for a number of reasons. Less product to move to Utah from Arizona, less product to have to account for when the purchase took place, etc. Now that the Bazzill brand is under AC's umbrella, production has ramped up again so you should be able to see the Kraft and White CS all over shortly.
This is the same with WeR. AC knew the WeR albums were popular and when the chance came to purchase them, they jumped on it. This is the same with WeR's tools. AC didn't have a strong tool offering, and WeR's source guy and R&D guy came along to AC so now they can make the albums WeR is famous for, and they will still be able to come up with tools that WeR is well known for.
You have to remember that AC does not go out and look for brands to purchase. Brands come to them because they want to retire, get out of the scrapbook world, get help with manufacturing and distributing so they can concentrate on design, etc.
To be honest, in the 11 years I've been open, I haven't had many problems with AC brand products. I have had WeR albums brought back because the eyelets didn't get closed well and the binder came off the covers. I did get some dry markers once, but it was taken care of with just one call to my rep.
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loco coco
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Jun 26, 2014 16:15:45 GMT
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Post by loco coco on Jul 28, 2014 16:02:38 GMT
Lisa, thanks for posting! I was concerned because I love the WRMK Albums and pages. Good to know they want to keep the quality the same
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monil
Shy Member
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Jul 10, 2014 17:41:11 GMT
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Post by monil on Jul 28, 2014 18:42:30 GMT
You have to remember that AC does not go out and look for brands to purchase. Brands come to them because they want to retire, get out of the scrapbook world, get help with manufacturing and distributing so they can concentrate on design, etc. ^^This.^^ AC is not the only company to acquire other smaller companies. Advantus has also done this for years but not as many in recent years. The latest example I can think of is Cosmo Cricket which sold to them in late 2011. The designers (which owned the company) get to keep on designing but manufacturing, marketing, etc is all handled by Advantus. Yes, their product line has changed but I'm sure that the 3 of them are glad they can keep on doing what they love and make a living. I understand everyone's concerns regarding a monopoly. But wouldn't there still be one if all of the smaller companies eventually had to close because production costs were too high? You can say that you would be willing to pay a premium price for a certain brand but just by recent history (lack of sales at 2P's) we can say that most people won't. (If I only had a nickel for everyone I saw post through the years that they never shopped there because it was too expensive.) The best of both worlds would be something like what Target does when it teams up with high-end designers and has them design collections that are exclusive to them. The consumer knows that they are getting a drop in quality and/or exclusiveness to align with the reduced price and they still have the choice to spend their money on the higher-end products if they wish. I personally see the current situation as a "good thing". That being said, I don't like that my choices (in particular with embellishments) are all starting to look alike but it makes sense from a business standpoint due to economies of scale. It boils down to whatever you perceive as the lesser of two evils: lack of choice because only one survives or lack of choice because they all look alike. Whatever way you look at it, the current market/economy for a specialized hobby ultimately leaves the consumer paying the price.
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Post by anniefb on Jul 28, 2014 19:43:59 GMT
Thanks for allaying some of our fears!
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nylene
Drama Llama
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Jun 28, 2014 14:59:59 GMT
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Post by nylene on Jul 29, 2014 1:36:37 GMT
AC has no plans to stop producing these brands. They understand how popular Bazzill is and wanted to add a strong cardstock brand to their umbrella. During the transition, Bazzill stopped production of their papers for a number of reasons. Less product to move to Utah from Arizona, less product to have to account for when the purchase took place, etc. Now that the Bazzill brand is under AC's umbrella, production has ramped up again so you should be able to see the Kraft and White CS all over shortly. This is the same with WeR. AC knew the WeR albums were popular and when the chance came to purchase them, they jumped on it. This is the same with WeR's tools. AC didn't have a strong tool offering, and WeR's source guy and R&D guy came along to AC so now they can make the albums WeR is famous for, and they will still be able to come up with tools that WeR is well known for. You have to remember that AC does not go out and look for brands to purchase. Brands come to them because they want to retire, get out of the scrapbook world, get help with manufacturing and distributing so they can concentrate on design, etc. To be honest, in the 11 years I've been open, I haven't had many problems with AC brand products. I have had WeR albums brought back because the eyelets didn't get closed well and the binder came off the covers. I did get some dry markers once, but it was taken care of with just one call to my rep. I agree with Lisa (above). I would rather have AC buy out a smaller company than to see it just close like 2peas. At least there is a chance of still having some of that product. I think AC has really helped out some of the struggling companies. I think that it may take a while but we will see some of the same things we have loved from the acquired companies.
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Post by cupcakepeddler on Jul 29, 2014 2:03:34 GMT
My only concern is "if" anything should happen and AC and then what happens to all the other brands that they have acquired. I highly doubt that anything will happen to Bazzill, to buy a company of that standing and quality and to replace production with cheaper paper would be the worst business decision ever, although stranger things have happened.
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AerynK
Full Member
Posts: 262
Location: CA
Jul 7, 2014 19:51:37 GMT
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Post by AerynK on Jul 29, 2014 3:08:50 GMT
It's been my experience with AC that their quality control is really lacking. They produce a lot in China and that could be part of it too. I think people are worried that the issues will spread to whatever company is acquired. Previously WRMK had a problem with their albums being warped, sewn wrong, and just generally of lower quality. Complaints were made and they changed it, even replaced the old albums and I *think* they brought production back to the US. But now AC owns them... It's just general concern over product you thought you knew and its possible changes.
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lisavb
Full Member
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Jun 25, 2014 21:49:19 GMT
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Post by lisavb on Jul 29, 2014 18:54:22 GMT
OK, so everyone's talking about AC quality and how it is lacking. I know there was a big kerfuffle about a Dear Lizzy sticker pack a few releases ago that came out as a diecut instead of a sticker. What other quality issues have been had that I'm either forgetting or don't know about?
The vast majority of products (other than paper) are made in China, from ALL companies, so to say their quality is worse than any other company just because it came from China is a bit far-reaching.
I have ordered from each and every company that AC has purchased before they were purchased from AC and I really haven't seen quality change overall. Now, I understand that each company now has thickers or flair or something that AC carries that the purchased company didn't before, but is that a bad thing? Pink Paislee just came out with their own stickers that no other company under the AC umbrella has.
And IF something were to happen to AC, my guess is the owners of the companies that were purchased or have licenses with, will have to go back out on their own, buy the company back, or it will cease to be. IF that happens, my guess is the scrapbooking industry would be pretty much finished before that happens though.
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monil
Shy Member
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Jul 10, 2014 17:41:11 GMT
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Post by monil on Jul 29, 2014 20:34:35 GMT
That's exactly what I've been thinking, Lisa. If AC goes under, things are going to be pretty dismal in the industry for a company that size to fold; which means that ANY company of a smaller size would probably have ceased to exist by then.
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