Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2016 15:57:26 GMT
Yesterday, all day long, Trump and Carson were going on about how Cruz had stolen the Iowa election. I thought typical sour grapes response from two losers until I was watched Rachel Maddow and as they say got the rest of the story.
It seems on Monday CNN released one of their "breaking news" stories that Carson was going home to Florida and have some big announcement next week.
The Cruz campaign took this to mean Carson was dropping out of the race so they immediately sent an email to the head of each of the caucus meeting sites. Telling them Carson was leaving and going to Florida and they should vote for Cruz. The way the email was worded implied that Carson was leaving the race.
The assumption made by both Trump and Carson is the folks who were originally planning to vote for Carson, thinking he was planning on leaving the race, switched their vote to Cruz and that is why he won.
Carson's proof of this is his wife was at one of the meetings and had not planned to give a speech until they showed her the email. She then gave a speech saying Carson wasn't dropping out of the race and the Cruz email was wrong. He won at that caucus meeting.
It gets even better. Once the Cruz's campaign found out Carson wasn't dropping out they did nothing about changing the contents on their original email.
Carson called Cruz on this and Cruz apologized. Carson wants the staffer who sent the emailed fired and Cruz says no.
My first thought when I read the story was why didn't someone at the Cruz campaign verify the story before releasing the email. Carson dropping out is a big story. But knowing it was Cruz I think they knew Carson wasn't going to drop out of the race and released the carefully worded email in hopes of getting Carson's votes. It appears it may have worked. Cruz won when he was behind Trump in the polls. The polls showed Hillery and Sanders neck and neck and that was the final result.
Rachel Maddow was gleefully calling it dirty politics like it's all part of politics. I think if that is the kind of stunt a candidate is going to pull to get votes then maybe they shouldn't be running for the office and that is definitely not someone who should be president.
The reason Carson was going home to Florida was to get clean clothes. It's kind of an odd reason I mean there are ways to get clean clothes without flying across country but Carson is just weird enough that it makes sense.
But more importantly I hate it when I find myself agreeing with Trump and Carson on something.
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Post by Leone on Feb 4, 2016 16:11:41 GMT
Cruz is coming off slimey with this. I heard Ben Carson talk about what happened with his wife. She had to be shocked. It was interesting to hear Carl Rove...who basically has been anti Trump the entire campaign...explain the consequences of what the Cruz staffers did. There are 1500 precincts in Iowa. By simply getting 4 Carson supporters at each caucus to switch to Cruz at each precinct...that gave him the win over Trump. Clever but sure goes against Cruz being portrayed as the holiest of Christians. There is a reason Cruz is disliked by those who have to work with him.
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valleyview
Pearl Clutcher
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Jun 27, 2014 18:41:26 GMT
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Post by valleyview on Feb 4, 2016 16:17:40 GMT
I saw some discussion of this on CNN last night. They were really mad, and rightly so, because it made their reporting look unsubstantiated. The Cruz staffer apologized, then continued to blame Carson and CNN. Yeah, not a real apology!
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Post by anonrefugee on Feb 4, 2016 16:21:46 GMT
Thanks for this. My dislike for the two has kept me from reading about much about Iowa. The smarm level is high!
ETA the idea a candidate is going home to get clothes is a little screwy too! But that's another topic.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2016 16:43:32 GMT
I don't believe that Carson, with his few supporters, gave Cruz the win. That is really reaching.
Not a Cruz fan, but I don't think this is a huge deal.
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iowgirl
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by iowgirl on Feb 4, 2016 17:03:17 GMT
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jayfab
Drama Llama
procastinating
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Post by jayfab on Feb 4, 2016 17:27:27 GMT
My snake oil salesman radar goes off every time I hear Cruz. Smarmy for sure.
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smginaz Suzy
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Je suis desole.
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Post by smginaz Suzy on Feb 4, 2016 18:19:21 GMT
I feel like this is another way of saying that voters are just stupid. If someone from another campaign told me that my candidate was dropping out, wouldn't I verify that with MY OWN CANDIDATE prior to changing my vote?
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Post by bc2ca on Feb 4, 2016 18:24:57 GMT
I'm not sure it gave Cruz the win, but with a 3.3% difference between him and Trump it might have. Carson did come in fourth so definitely had some support in Iowa. This and the Voter Violation mailers that his campaign sent out just reinforce the slimy vibe Cruz gives off. I hope Trump is like a dog with a bone on this and doesn't let go  . |
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desertgirl
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Post by desertgirl on Feb 4, 2016 18:28:50 GMT
NM
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Post by karen on Feb 4, 2016 18:37:09 GMT
The voters should have verified this on their own, really. Why would the listen to the Cruz camp on this topic? They should have researched it further. This may have been dirty on the part of Cruz, but those voters need to think for themselves.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2016 18:41:16 GMT
You need to change your title. Thank you. I did not see that. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2016 18:43:12 GMT
I feel like this is another way of saying that voters are just stupid. If someone from another campaign told me that my candidate was dropping out, wouldn't I verify that with MY OWN CANDIDATE prior to changing my vote? This! You get an email from another candidate's campaign and without checking its veracity, you change your vote? C'mon! |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2016 18:45:50 GMT
The voters should have verified this on their own, really. Why would the listen to the Cruz camp on this topic? They should have researched it further. This may have been dirty on the part of Cruz, but those voters need to think for themselves. You would think so. My guess is Cruz and company were counting on the voters to take their email as gospel and it may have paid off. Oh no Cruz is blabbing on my TV and there is a sign behind him that says TrustTed. Yea ok. |
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Post by leftturnonly on Feb 4, 2016 18:53:56 GMT
Trump is being too whiny.
Carson's campaign put out a simple statement in a time and place where obvious implications could be made - as CNN remarked.
Carson out-performed his polling. I seriously doubt he lost enough, if any, votes. Rush Limbaugh has a call out for people who did change their votes for Carson because of they wrongly believed Carson had already dropped out to step forward. So far, no one has.
There are a lot of excited campaign workers on caucus days. Someone from the Cruz camp apparently didn't do completely full diligence and said that Carson had apparently dropped out instead of saying that CNN was reporting that Carson issued a statement that make you wonder if he's dropping out. Whatever. Cruz accepted responsibility and publicly apologized to Carson.
I feel bad for Carson because I think he's in over his head. He's cutting back on his team as of today. The idea that he would drop out soon was hardly coming out of nowhere. He needs to man up and acknowledge that his team started this whole kerrfluffal when they told people about to vote that he wasn't going on to New Hampshire but would be going home to Florida and then to the Prayer Breakfast in Washington.
How about the group at Bernie Sanders chanting "She's a LIAR!" at Hillary when she was on the big screen speaking after the Iowa voting?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2016 19:32:41 GMT
Love the spin. Problem is when one someone like Carson drops out of the race it is kind of a big deal that would have involved more than one excited staffer. The email sent was very carefully worded that would have involved someone with authority who should have double checked that the story had been verified. Because again Carson dropping out of the race IS a big deal.
And I'm curious what does some person yelling "she is a liar" have to do with the topic at hand? How is someone calling a candidate a liar dirty politics? If you are going to try and change the topic at least introduce a topic in the same arena as the original topic. Otherwise it looks a bit petty.
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Post by jbelle on Feb 4, 2016 19:46:21 GMT
Polk County Iowa's voting confusion,as shown on Youtube, should at least put the kibash on the hand count method of voting for them in the future.
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Post by leftturnonly on Feb 4, 2016 19:46:54 GMT
Love the spin. Problem is when one someone like Carson drops out of the race it is kind of a big deal that would have involved more than one excited staffer. The email sent was very carefully worded that would have involved someone with authority who should have double checked that the story had been verified. Because again Carson dropping out of the race IS a big deal. And I'm curious what does some person yelling "she is a liar" have to do with the topic at hand? How is someone calling a candidate a liar dirty politics? If you are going to try and change the topic at least introduce a topic in the same arena as the original topic. Otherwise it looks a bit petty. It's hardly spin to state the facts. The Carson campaign put out a statement before any votes that day that Carson was not going on to New Hampshire - as every other candidate was - and was going home to Florida for a few days and to the Prayer Breakfast. It was poor timing on their part, especially since they did not specifically state that Carson would be back on the campaign trail on such and such a day. That's what I meant by being in over his head. Another campaign would have (hopefully) caught the implications before releasing the statement. As for the entire Bernie Sanders room - far more than one person - chanting "She's a LIAR!" - I thought it would be nice to for once see something that the Democrat campaigns are doing on this board. Don't like it? I don't give a flip. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2016 20:18:54 GMT
Love the spin. Problem is when one someone like Carson drops out of the race it is kind of a big deal that would have involved more than one excited staffer. The email sent was very carefully worded that would have involved someone with authority who should have double checked that the story had been verified. Because again Carson dropping out of the race IS a big deal. And I'm curious what does some person yelling "she is a liar" have to do with the topic at hand? How is someone calling a candidate a liar dirty politics? If you are going to try and change the topic at least introduce a topic in the same arena as the original topic. Otherwise it looks a bit petty. It's hardly spin to state the facts. The Carson campaign put out a statement before any votes that day that Carson was not going on to New Hampshire - as every other candidate was - and was going home to Florida for a few days and to the Prayer Breakfast. It was poor timing on their part, especially since they did not specifically state that Carson would be back on the campaign trail on such and such a day. That's what I meant by being in over his head. Another campaign would have (hopefully) caught the implications before releasing the statement. As for the entire Bernie Sanders room - far more than one person - chanting "She's a LIAR!" - I thought it would be nice to for once see something that the Democrat campaigns are doing on this board. Don't like it? I don't give a flip. Problem is I also posted the facts. So there we are Bottom line the story should have been verified before any email was released. Either it was and they ignored it or they didn't. In either case it does not look good for Cruz & Co. But I suspect they knew it was not true that Carson was dropping out of the race. Add to that the "Official State" looking mailers the Cruz campaign mailed to the voters. Mailers that implied that the state was grading the voters on how often they voted and that "Action was Required". Pissed of Iowa's Sec. Of State. Your scenario of the Carson email is looking a little thin as it would appear Cruz is not above tricking the voters to get their vote. As far as what the Democrats are doing. I suspect you are not paying attention. However if you feel there is a shortage of threads pointing out the short comings of the Democrats you can always start a few of your own. But right now the Republican candidates are a group that just keeps on giving to the point it's hard to ignore. |
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Post by leftturnonly on Feb 4, 2016 20:56:50 GMT
You seem to think I'm here shilling for Cruz or something else equally wrong.
I think that this whole "news" on Carson was begun by the Carson campaign itself. Their timing was politically inept and the obvious implications - especially since he had already begun downsizing - should have lept out to them.
In that regard, I find it anything but surprising that other campaigns used this idea to persuade voters to caucus for them.
I do think it's incredibly insulting to the actual voters to assume that enough people were hoodwinked to have changed the outcome, especially since Carson DID receive more votes than he was projected to win. Let's see how many people actually step forward to say that they were somehow disenfranchised before assuming it was something of actual significance.
Trump is being completely ridiculous over both this and the fact Cruz was born in Canada. I hope he begins to drop voters to other campaigns. Carson is within his rights to be upset, but I think he's only hurting his chances for good future voters at this point. That's the political arena that they both chose to jump into so I think they need to realize exactly where they are, dust themselves off and move forward or expect backlashes that will hurt their chances for getting the Republican nomination.
I think it's pretty hard to ignore how even Democrats are calling Hillary a liar. A few million Americans happen to agree with them. Hardly worth mentioning, according to you.
Please. By all means. Continue making broad accusations of what you think I mean while continuing to excuse everything said and done by Hillary. Knock yourself out.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2016 21:12:52 GMT
You seem to think I'm here shilling for Cruz or something else equally wrong. I think that this whole "news" on Carson was begun by the Carson campaign itself. Their timing was politically inept and the obvious implications - especially since he had already begun downsizing - should have lept out to them. In that regard, I find it anything but surprising that other campaigns used this idea to persuade voters to caucus for them. I do think it's incredibly insulting to the actual voters to assume that enough people were hoodwinked to have changed the outcome, especially since Carson DID receive more votes than he was projected to win. Let's see how many people actually step forward to say that they were somehow disenfranchised before assuming it was something of actual significance. Trump is being completely ridiculous over both this and the fact Cruz was born in Canada. I hope he begins to drop voters to other campaigns. Carson is within his rights to be upset, but I think he's only hurting his chances for good future voters at this point. That's the political arena that they both chose to jump into so I think they need to realize exactly where they are, dust themselves off and move forward or expect backlashes that will hurt their chances for getting the Republican nomination. I think it's pretty hard to ignore how even Democrats are calling Hillary a liar. A few million Americans happen to agree with them. Hardly worth mentioning, according to you. Please. By all means. Continue making broad accusations of what you think I mean while continuing to excuse everything said and done by Hillary. Knock yourself out. I'm just enjoying your little assumptions. Quite entertaining. As far as broad accusations what I think you mean. Isn't that what you did to me? The reality is you feel your version of what happened is correct. In fact you feel your entire recap above is spot on. I feel mine is correct so there we are. But seriously if you feel there are not enough "Hillary is Bad" threads start some. |
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iowgirl
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Post by iowgirl on Feb 4, 2016 21:18:39 GMT
I feel like this is another way of saying that voters are just stupid. If someone from another campaign told me that my candidate was dropping out, wouldn't I verify that with MY OWN CANDIDATE prior to changing my vote? I think you also need to see how the Iowa Caucuses work. It is not like regular primary election where you go in and cast your vote at any point during the day/ The Caucus is held at a school, church, library, or sometimes even in peoples homes. The group gathers together and discusses the candidates. The Republican and Democratic caucuses are held at different locations in each area and are handled differently. Someone discussing that a candidate has dropped out, from a seemingly authentic source, could change the vote. These are not all day long votes. They start in in the evening around 7 pm and do not go on that long. The ones around here were over in probably an hour or less. It is not like going to a polling site that is open all day. |
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AmeliaBloomer
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Feb 4, 2016 22:06:52 GMT
Color me not so surprised that this would be the kind of shenanigans that goes on in political campaigning on both sides - and would be especially effective in Iowa or New Hampshire, where so much personal "living room campaigning" happens. And just because Iowa vote-switchers are not contacting Rush Limbaugh - or even (gasp!) not listening to his broadcast - doesn't mean that much to me, although HE will view it as legit data. I wish he would stop meddling in elections. Ticked me off in 2008 when he daily-and-relentlessly encouraged millions of Republicans to vote in the Democratic primaries - for Hillary because Obama was gaining momentum and Rush thought Hillary was more beatable. Speaking of shenanigans. That's when I stopped listening to Rush. My own little protest. Think he noticed?  |
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Post by lisae on Feb 4, 2016 22:15:34 GMT
I think this makes both Cruz and Trump look bad which suits me just fine as I don't like either one of them.
Somewhere on Caucus night I heard that Carson was going home for clean clothes and to take a few days off before resuming his campaign. He had been in Iowa 18 days straight so a break makes sense to me.
I don't think that Cruz staff's actions really impacted the caucus because Carson was polling around 10% for a long time and he got 9%.
I agree with the other posters that anyone who was set enough on Carson to vote for him should have verified the story out of the Cruz campaign.
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Post by Kymberlee on Feb 5, 2016 0:40:12 GMT
I agree with everything leftturnonly said. I heard the CNN story when they were discussing this and they were implying that Carson was going home and his campaign was in trouble and hmmmm....what could this possibly mean? #winkwinknudgenudge. I can totally see how some over eager staffer took the story and ran with it. Does it make it right. No, but it is also much ado about nothing. Trump having a temper tantrum about it is laughable. Now, it appears as if Carson has downsized his staff and from the outside looking in, it would appear that his campaign is losing steam. |
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Post by leftturnonly on Feb 5, 2016 3:59:34 GMT
I feel like this is another way of saying that voters are just stupid. If someone from another campaign told me that my candidate was dropping out, wouldn't I verify that with MY OWN CANDIDATE prior to changing my vote? I think you also need to see how the Iowa Caucuses work. It is not like regular primary election where you go in and cast your vote at any point during the day/ The Caucus is held at a school, church, library, or sometimes even in peoples homes. The group gathers together and discusses the candidates. The Republican and Democratic caucuses are held at different locations in each area and are handled differently. Someone discussing that a candidate has dropped out, from a seemingly authentic source, could change the vote. These are not all day long votes. They start in in the evening around 7 pm and do not go on that long. The ones around here were over in probably an hour or less. It is not like going to a polling site that is open all day. Then by all means, let people who would have voted for Carson but didn't because they thought he had dropped out step forward. It's very early days in the process of nominating our candidates from both parties. It's not too late to reassess if the numbers are there to support the effort. I would think by now people would be speaking out publicly and I haven't heard of any yet. It's so fascinating to see how different each state is. |
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Post by leftturnonly on Feb 5, 2016 4:07:52 GMT
Color me not so surprised that this would be the kind of shenanigans that goes on in political campaigning on both sides - and would be especially effective in Iowa or New Hampshire, where so much personal "living room campaigning" happens. And just because Iowa vote-switchers are not contacting Rush Limbaugh - or even (gasp!) not listening to his broadcast - doesn't mean that much to me, although HE will view it as legit data. I wish he would stop meddling in elections. Ticked me off in 2008 when he daily-and-relentlessly encouraged millions of Republicans to vote in the Democratic primaries - for Hillary because Obama was gaining momentum and Rush thought Hillary was more beatable. Speaking of shenanigans. That's when I stopped listening to Rush. My own little protest. Think he noticed? I'm sure he misses you terribly. I only brought him up because he helps bring a lot of attention to different issues and this press may help people who may feel like they were somehow wronged when they caucassed to learn that they could speak up. I think that's a good idea. If you don't think that's a good idea, OK... but I really find it hard to believe you wouldn't want people to have a chance to speak up. So there it is. He has the huge platform and has issued the invitation. It really doesn't matter if that person agrees with him or not - this is a chance for them to speak out publicly if there was a problem for them. |
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Post by Skypea on Feb 7, 2016 6:42:21 GMT
Love the spin. Problem is when one someone like Carson drops out of the race it is kind of a big deal that would have involved more than one excited staffer. The email sent was very carefully worded that would have involved someone with authority who should have double checked that the story had been verified. Because again Carson dropping out of the race IS a big deal. And I'm curious what does some person yelling "she is a liar" have to do with the topic at hand? How is someone calling a candidate a liar dirty politics? If you are going to try and change the topic at least introduce a topic in the same arena as the original topic. Otherwise it looks a bit petty. It's hardly spin to state the facts. The Carson campaign put out a statement before any votes that day that Carson was not going on to New Hampshire - as every other candidate was - and was going home to Florida for a few days and to the Prayer Breakfast. It was poor timing on their part, especially since they did not specifically state that Carson would be back on the campaign trail on such and such a day. That's what I meant by being in over his head. Another campaign would have (hopefully) caught the implications before releasing the statement. As for the entire Bernie Sanders room - far more than one person - chanting "She's a LIAR!" - I thought it would be nice to for once see something that the Democrat campaigns are doing on this board. Don't like it? I don't give a flip. I agree. I like Carson but someone / whoever put that statement out should have waited and been more specific.
I don't blame Cruz for it. I heard a number of those guys out on the trail talking about it and they said that's what is normally done if someone drops out. they need to get to that person's supporters and let them know so they don't waste their vote. that's how it's done.
Trump is nasty and a bully and had boasted that he'd win Iowa, he didn't - he made Cruz the scapegoat for his 2nd place - he'd previously said that those who came in 2nd were losers. that made him a loser and he didn't like it.
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Dalai Mama
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Post by Dalai Mama on Feb 7, 2016 13:30:35 GMT
It's hardly spin to state the facts. The Carson campaign put out a statement before any votes that day that Carson was not going on to New Hampshire - as every other candidate was - and was going home to Florida for a few days and to the Prayer Breakfast. It was poor timing on their part, especially since they did not specifically state that Carson would be back on the campaign trail on such and such a day. That's what I meant by being in over his head. Another campaign would have (hopefully) caught the implications before releasing the statement. As for the entire Bernie Sanders room - far more than one person - chanting "She's a LIAR!" - I thought it would be nice to for once see something that the Democrat campaigns are doing on this board. Don't like it? I don't give a flip. I agree. I like Carson but someone / whoever put that statement out should have waited and been more specific.
I don't blame Cruz for it. I heard a number of those guys out on the trail talking about it and they said that's what is normally done if someone drops out. they need to get to that person's supporters and let them know so they don't waste their vote. that's how it's done.
Trump is nasty and a bully and had boasted that he'd win Iowa, he didn't - he made Cruz the scapegoat for his 2nd place - he'd previously said that those who came in 2nd were losers. that made him a loser and he didn't like it.
Yes, that's how it's done when someone drops out. But you do that after somebody actually drops out. You don't send out the plea based solely on some vague commentary on a 24-hour news station and not make a few calls. You do your due diligence first. FTR, I agree entirely with your last paragraph. |
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