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Post by izzyscraps on Feb 7, 2016 15:54:47 GMT
Just because you don't agree with something doesn't mean you hate that something or the person involved in that something. It just means you don't agree with the something they are doing or engaging in. Doesn't necessarily mean hate.
On the flip side......just because I'm friends with people doing something that I don't necessarily agree with doesn't mean that I condone what they are doing. I still love the person even though I don't agree with what they are doing.
Not so much a peas thing. I just wanted to say it cuz I can't say it to one particular person in real life.
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Deleted
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May 19, 2024 10:07:00 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2016 15:56:54 GMT
Hugs!
Why does it always seem that hate has to go with disagreement?
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Feb 7, 2016 16:05:57 GMT
Or that if you don't support one teeny part of a cause, your friend declared you against them?!
I mean can one TRULY and I mean truly 100% support issues that they believe in and say that they support the other side too?
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Post by melanell on Feb 7, 2016 16:18:58 GMT
I hear you. A friend of mine was having an affair with a married man, once. She asked my advice ahead of time, and I advised against it, of course, but after that, I was just her friend. I supported her as best I could throughout the situation, which, as I'm sure you might have guessed, didn't go well.
I didn't agree with her actions, and she knew that, but she was a dear friend and I cared about her, and she knew that as well.
I'm sorry, OP, that you're experiencing a situation with someone who seemingly cannot separate your dislike/disapproval/disagreement for their actions from your feelings for them as a person. Hugs!
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Post by elaine on Feb 7, 2016 16:20:48 GMT
I'm sorry, izzyscraps. I wish that you could say that to the person you want to. You said it very well here.
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caro
Drama Llama
Refupea 1130
Posts: 5,222
Jun 26, 2014 14:10:36 GMT
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Post by caro on Feb 7, 2016 16:28:40 GMT
I agree. If I were to say I didn't agree with something or I did agree with something else, I would be labeled some hate filled name. And the thing of it is, I would never label anyone no matter what the issue. Therefore, I keep my mouth shut on certain topics.
It's too bad people use all kinds of hateful labels instead of respecting each other. It's a centuries old problem.
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Post by moveablefeast on Feb 7, 2016 16:53:21 GMT
On the other hand, taking gay marriage as a prime example and one common context in which this statement is used, I get that lots of people disagree with gay marriage, and swear ten ways from Sunday that they don't hate gay people, they just believe in traditional marriage. And that's fine.
The problem for me comes in when people seem to think that their disagreement means that they should be the decision-maker for everyone else. And in the example of gay marriage, the problem for me comes in when people say, I disagree with gay marriage and therefore I think the law of the land should ban gay marriage. Because while I don't intend to get into the question of hate or not hate, because that reduces the conversation to an unhelpful dichotomy, what that statement does do is it elevates the moral belief of the one unaffected over the actual life of the one affected.
I've heard lots of people say this over the years. And again, just using this specific example, I don't think everyone who opposes gay marriage hates gay people, but there's more to the conversation than that. The context matters.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2016 16:59:13 GMT
On the other hand, taking gay marriage as a prime example, I get that lots of people disagree with gay marriage, and swear ten ways from Sunday that they don't hate gay people, they just believe in traditional marriage. And that's fine. The problem for me comes in when people seem to think that their disagreement means that they should be the decision-maker for everyone else. And in the example of gay marriage, the problem for me comes in when people say, I disagree with gay marriage and therefore I think the law of the land should ban gay marriage. Because while I don't intend to get into the question of hate or not hate, because that reduces the conversation to an unhelpful dichotomy, what that statement does do is it elevates the moral belief of the one unaffected over the actual life of the one affected. I've heard lots of people say this over the years. And again, just using this specific example, I don't think everyone who opposes gay marriage hates gay people, but there's more to the conversation than that. The context matters. Co-signed Just because you don't believe in something doesn't mean you get to be the arbiter of morality for everyone else.
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Post by lucyg on Feb 7, 2016 17:10:17 GMT
Not believing in same-sex marriage is absolutely your right and doesn't make you a hater.
Voting against same-sex marriage for other people who aren't you and whose lives don't impinge on your own IS a form of hate.
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Post by izzyscraps on Feb 7, 2016 17:12:11 GMT
But just because you think that gay marriage should be legalized, and I'm not saying it should or shouldn't, isn't that forcing your beliefs on one that says it shouldn't. Where's the balance?
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Post by izzyscraps on Feb 7, 2016 17:19:47 GMT
Well neither is heterosexuality.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2016 17:20:15 GMT
But just because you think that gay marriage should be legalized, and I'm not saying it should or shouldn't, isn't that forcing your beliefs on one that says it shouldn't. Where's the balance? It's a moot point now, but I don't think legalizing gay marriage was forcing anyone's beliefs on anyone else. No one has to get gay married if they don't want to. Don't believe in it? Super! Nothing has changed about your existing traditional marriage or your ability to marry someone of the opposite gender in the future. The legalization of gay marriage simply provides the same right straight people had always had to a class of individuals who had previously been banned from getting married.
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Post by elaine on Feb 7, 2016 17:23:20 GMT
But just because you think that gay marriage should be legalized, and I'm not saying it should or shouldn't, isn't that forcing your beliefs on one that says it shouldn't. Where's the balance? But by legalizing gay marriage you (general you) are not forcing anyone to marry someone of the same sex. By making gay marriage illegal, you are forcing consenting adults who want to get married to stay single and give up rights bestowed upon married couples - even though you were never planning on marrying someone of the same sex anyhow. So, you are making something illegal, forcing your belief on others, about something that has nothing to do with you and won't change how you live your life.
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Post by lucyg on Feb 7, 2016 17:27:04 GMT
But just because you think that gay marriage should be legalized, and I'm not saying it should or shouldn't, isn't that forcing your beliefs on one that says it shouldn't. Where's the balance? Forcing my beliefs on others would be insisting they themselves get gay-married, I guess. Asking them not to force their beliefs on others (i.e., insisting that since they don't believe in same-sex marriage, no one else should be allowed to have a same-sex marriage) isn't the same thing as forcing my beliefs on them. Every one of us has to live in a world in which other people are legally allowed to behave in ways we think are wrong. That doesn't mean we should vote against other people's right to behave badly (in our opinion) in ways that don't hurt society as a whole.
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Post by hop2 on Feb 7, 2016 17:42:17 GMT
But just because you think that gay marriage should be legalized, and I'm not saying it should or shouldn't, isn't that forcing your beliefs on one that says it shouldn't. Where's the balance? Can you really not see the difference? There are plenty of things I don't believe in that are legal. Why should my moral compass regulate your life? I don't believe in abortion BUT I do belive other people should choose for themselves. I don't believe in a bunch of religions BUT I do belive each person has to find their own path with the supreme being. I don't personally believe in a whole list of things that I do think each person should have the right to make a choice about. Something being legal does not infringe upon your right to not do it if you so desire. I do believe people who want to force me to live by their opinions and choices are hateful, and fearful and closed minded. But I still feel they should legally be allowed to have their opinion. Just leave me alone about it.
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Post by moveablefeast on Feb 7, 2016 17:44:45 GMT
But just because you think that gay marriage should be legalized, and I'm not saying it should or shouldn't, isn't that forcing your beliefs on one that says it shouldn't. Where's the balance? Here's the balance. You do what you feel is best for you. You make your decisions based on your morals and your worldview and your desires. Now you let other people do the same. Boom. Balance.
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Post by izzyscraps on Feb 7, 2016 18:01:18 GMT
Not believing in same-sex marriage is absolutely your right and doesn't make you a hater. Voting against same-sex marriage for other people who aren't you and whose lives don't impinge on your own IS a form of hate. No. I don't believe it's a form of hate. It's what they believe and everyone has the right to vote the way they want to.
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Post by izzyscraps on Feb 7, 2016 18:02:51 GMT
But just because you think that gay marriage should be legalized, and I'm not saying it should or shouldn't, isn't that forcing your beliefs on one that says it shouldn't. Where's the balance? Here's the balance. You do what you feel is best for you. You make your decisions based on your morals and your worldview and your desires. Now you let other people do the same. Boom. Balance. This is the balance I live by. But not everyone does. Just for the record. I'm not stating my beliefs for or against gay marriage. Keeping that to myself for now. Just trying to see both sides. And also, it's not just gay marriage. It just happens to be the hot button issue right now.
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Post by gypsymama on Feb 7, 2016 18:04:05 GMT
i'm curious what's possibly "loving"about being against gay marriage?
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Post by lucyg on Feb 7, 2016 18:05:04 GMT
Not believing in same-sex marriage is absolutely your right and doesn't make you a hater. Voting against same-sex marriage for other people who aren't you and whose lives don't impinge on your own IS a form of hate. No. I don't believe it's a form of hate. It's what they believe and everyone has the right to vote the way they want to. Okay. But understand that many people will disagree vehemently with that stance and will consider you a hater. With some cause, since you are choosing to impose your personal moral/religious opinions on people who have differing views.
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Post by izzyscraps on Feb 7, 2016 18:07:25 GMT
But why is voting how they believe imposing? People vote on opposing views all the time. Doesn't necessarily mean hate.
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Post by izzyscraps on Feb 7, 2016 18:07:59 GMT
i'm curious what's possibly "loving"about being against gay marriage? You can still love the person and not agree with their lifestyle.
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Post by moveablefeast on Feb 7, 2016 18:08:21 GMT
Not believing in same-sex marriage is absolutely your right and doesn't make you a hater. Voting against same-sex marriage for other people who aren't you and whose lives don't impinge on your own IS a form of hate. No. I don't believe it's a form of hate. It's what they believe and everyone has the right to vote the way they want to. I think part of the point of this thread is that that is a bit of an oversimplification. Of course you have the right to vote and to believe as you wish, but this was not started as a conversation about people's right to vote the way they wish. I think it's evident that there is larger context and conversation that occurs around this issue that isn't as simple as that.
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Post by izzyscraps on Feb 7, 2016 18:10:02 GMT
No. I don't believe it's a form of hate. It's what they believe and everyone has the right to vote the way they want to. I think part of the point of this thread is that that is a bit of an oversimplification. Of course you have the right to vote and to believe as you wish, but this was not started as a conversation about people's right to vote the way they wish. I think it's evident that there is larger context and conversation that occurs around this issue that isn't as simple as that. Well that's very true also.
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Post by moveablefeast on Feb 7, 2016 18:24:56 GMT
i'm curious what's possibly "loving"about being against gay marriage? You can still love the person and not agree with their lifestyle. This is a logical fallacy for several reasons. One being that being LGBT is not a lifestyle, which implies that it is chosen and that it is somehow universal. Sexual orientation is related to many parts of life. It is both a major and a minor aspect of an individual at the same time. Most gay people I know go to work, love their families, have friends and hobbies, go to the grocery store, eat food, go to movies - that is a lifestyle and it is no different than any other person's, except for the natural variations among people. Another reason this is a logical fallacy is that most people who say it have no real grounds to "disagree" with a person's homosexuality. By which I mean - why, if you are not the person who is gay or the partner of the person who is gay, do you think you have any reason to "disagree" with that? Do you think it's not ok? Then don't do it. But unless I have made it your business by inviting you to also be gay, then your disagreement is without grounds. Finally, this is a problematic statement because it is incredibly difficult to walk out in practice. Many, many young LGBT folks hear "I love you but I can't accept you being gay" - which leads to a life of shame, hiding, lying, the rejection of a person's significant other. Very rarely have I seen this walked out as love. I have seen the parents of an LGBT teen's friends tell the gay kid, "I love you but I don't want my child to have queer friends." My aunt told her gay son she loved him but didn't agree with his homosexuality and she never accepted his partner of 25 years as part of the family's life. You have to look at how this walks out and I can tell you it is hard to walk that out and maintain relationships.
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Post by izzyscraps on Feb 7, 2016 18:31:05 GMT
Ah but that's your opinion. I have many gay friends. Do I care that they are gay? Nope. That's their business. I love the person. Not their sexual orientation.
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Post by izzyscraps on Feb 7, 2016 18:32:05 GMT
But this thread wasn't just about being gay. It was about many things that people disagree about that have the same connotations. Can be anything.
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Post by Drew on Feb 7, 2016 18:37:16 GMT
I hope that someday being gay will stop being referred to as a "lifestyle".
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Post by mollycoddle on Feb 7, 2016 18:49:33 GMT
I hear you. A friend of mine was having an affair with a married man, once. She asked my advice ahead of time, and I advised against it, of course, but after that, I was just her friend. I supported her as best I could throughout the situation, which, as I'm sure you might have guessed, didn't go well. I didn't agree with her actions, and she knew that, but she was a dear friend and I cared about her, and she knew that as well. I'm sorry, OP, that you're experiencing a situation with someone who seemingly cannot separate your dislike/disapproval/disagreement for their actions from your feelings for them as a person. Hugs! The same thing happened with me one time. We remained friends, but her affair didn't last. But now, it does seem that certain people have trouble tolerating disagreement.
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Post by mollycoddle on Feb 7, 2016 18:51:25 GMT
On the other hand, taking gay marriage as a prime example and one common context in which this statement is used, I get that lots of people disagree with gay marriage, and swear ten ways from Sunday that they don't hate gay people, they just believe in traditional marriage. And that's fine. The problem for me comes in when people seem to think that their disagreement means that they should be the decision-maker for everyone else. And in the example of gay marriage, the problem for me comes in when people say, I disagree with gay marriage and therefore I think the law of the land should ban gay marriage. Because while I don't intend to get into the question of hate or not hate, because that reduces the conversation to an unhelpful dichotomy, what that statement does do is it elevates the moral belief of the one unaffected over the actual life of the one affected. I've heard lots of people say this over the years. And again, just using this specific example, I don't think everyone who opposes gay marriage hates gay people, but there's more to the conversation than that. The context matters. 1000 times ^^^^^ this.
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