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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2016 13:40:24 GMT
This may get long, please bear with me. I'd like opinions on whether or not I should have my son's school test him for an IEP. The school psychologist is against it. She keeps telling me he will have a slower curriculum and that students without IEPs do better. I'm sure if a student doesn't have one they do better because they do not need one. She also let me know college's don't accept IEPs, honestly I doubt he will go to college. He's leaning towards becoming a mechanic.
There are two main issues with our youngest. He is in the 8th grade. He has struggled with his hand writing and reading since elementary school. I have brought both issues up at every conference. For the reading the teachers would always say once he finds a book he loves he'll be a reader still hasn't happened. He always scores in the low normal range on the big state tests. In the 7th grade his test slipped to below normal but not by much.
For hand writing his 5th grade teacher suggested Handwriting without Tears. We have tried it and it hasn't helped, there are times when even he can't read what he's wrote.
I had a meeting with his counselor and teachers last year, their suggestions were to keep up with the Handwriting without Tears, keep reading and get him a tutor of math as his math grade had slipped to an F. In elementary school math was the one subject he did OK in, now in junior high he was flunking.
I got the tutor and his math grade has came up to a C. We are still working on his writing but it still is bad. The school says with regards to his handwriting it's not the worst they've seen so there is nothing for them to do which is scary to me if his isn't one of the worst. With reading my son says he has a hard time understanding what he is reading, I don't think he is retaining it very well. The school doesn't want to test him as he has no obvious learning disorders. So would you push for testing? Hire more tutors? I do not have the talent or patience to try and teach him.
Oh one other thing that worries me is our state is starting to require two years of foreign language to graduate starting in 2019, my son will graduate in 2020 so he will have to have a foreign language. It worries me that he's going to have to struggle with reading in a different language now also.
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Post by **GypsyGirl** on Mar 20, 2016 13:44:21 GMT
The school doesn't want to test him as he has no obvious learning disorders. Not all learning disorders are obvious and it worries me that your school says this. I would insist that they test him. Is it possible for you to have him tested privately? It is expensive, but can be well worth it to pinpoint a child's issues and get immediate help for them.
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Post by freecharlie on Mar 20, 2016 13:51:37 GMT
Put your request in writing. He may or may not qualify. Go in with data of your own, grades, past assessments, writing samples.
At 8th grade, there isn't a lot an ot can do at school to improve handwriting unless it is a motor issue like strength or something. Have you tried colored paper instead of white?
Not all lower performing students have disabilities, but of you suspect, ask for him to br tested. If they won't (documented in writing with reasons, you can pay to have him tested
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Post by jenjie on Mar 20, 2016 14:03:10 GMT
Google dysgraphia about his handwriting. We saw a neurologist who was willing to say he had dysgraphia (we got an appt with the wrong person) but regardless special services said they were not equipped to help with that. I emailed his teacher and there are certain things he is allowed , actually required now - to type instead of hand write because his writing is so bad.
My ds11 has a good memory and picks things up quickly, he has other issues we will be having tested next month but he gets good grades in spite of himself. All this to say, every time he has to write his signature he still needs to look at the handwriting chart to see how to form the letters.
ETA my ds' teacher 2 years ago is the one who suggested dysgraphia.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2016 14:06:46 GMT
The school doesn't want to test him as he has no obvious learning disorders. Not all learning disorders are obvious and it worries me that your school says this. I would insist that they test him. Is it possible for you to have him tested privately? It is expensive, but can be well worth it to pinpoint a child's issues and get immediate help for them. To be fair the school didn't say that but that is the impression they are giving me. We are looking into testing but the two places I called on Friday want between 2 and 3 grand to test him. I'm also checking with our insurance to see if there is any coverage for testing.
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Post by lindywholoveskids on Mar 20, 2016 14:08:58 GMT
I think it would help for you to find out what your rights are. In my experience with helping families getting children tested the school district often does not have resources that the child needs. That's when you can go to getting help from an advocate. District might have to pay for outside ( private) testing if they can't provide what you need. It just seems that there could be a problem that's not being addressed - You have the best intuition as a mom-go with what you are feeling. The law should be on your side. They have to provide the best education for him, and if they can't they need to pay for what's best. A complete evaluation is in order in my opinion, one that covers physical, neurological and complete learning disability testing. Don't pay for it yourself unless and until you have gone to bat ( file a complaint) with the district. In our area there are support groups for parents and families that are fighting for the very best appropriate education for their child's needs. Many parents have to become well versed in their legal rights. Good luck! And I hope your son gets help soon. D
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2016 14:09:19 GMT
Put your request in writing. He may or may not qualify. Go in with data of your own, grades, past assessments, writing samples. At 8th grade, there isn't a lot an ot can do at school to improve handwriting unless it is a motor issue like strength or something. Have you tried colored paper instead of white? Not all lower performing students have disabilities, but of you suspect, ask for him to br tested. If they won't (documented in writing with reasons, you can pay to have him tested We are checking into to private testing, it is very expensive which is probably why the school isn't to quick to want to test him. We haven't tried colored paper. I will have to look into that.
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Post by lindywholoveskids on Mar 20, 2016 14:11:20 GMT
Don't pay for testing or evals. That's the districts responsibility
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johnnysmom
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Post by johnnysmom on Mar 20, 2016 14:14:54 GMT
I don't have any real advice, but I wonder if he could type most of his work to get past the handwriting issue. Oh, and have you had his vision tested? When ds (now 14/8th grade) was younger he had a terrible time reading, we held him back a year, had additional reading support, tested, yada yada. Turns out he had a vision problem and required vision therapy. We had to take him to an ophthalmologist that specialized in vision therapy, it hadn't turned up in any regular screening. He still hates reading and will never read for pleasure, but it made a big difference.
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paigepea
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Post by paigepea on Mar 20, 2016 14:17:15 GMT
Is his issue reading or reading comprehension? Reading comprehension is a common problem. If it wasn't caught as low as grade 3/4 then it is possible this is his major issue. It can affect his math mark as well, as the emphasis on word problems requires very strong reading comprehension nowadays. I wonder if you would have benefited more from a tutor to work with him on reading comprehension. Hand writing to me is not a huge deal. Kids nowadays can have terrible handwriting - I don't think it is as major a focus as it used to be.
I wouldnt worry about 2 years of a second language. Our district has required 4 years since I was in school - they don't get to a lot of reading comprehension after just two years of a foreign language. Grammar, like subject verb agreement or verb conjugation, and memorization will probably be the focuses.
I've seen IEPs work both ways. I've seen them hold kids back, I've seen them help kids get by, and I've seen them be life saving for a child. It comes down to every child is different and you know yours best. If you insist on testing, i'd probably get private testing and leave the school out of it for now. I'd want the knowledge for myself before I pursued anything with the school.
P.
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Post by shamrock on Mar 20, 2016 14:19:10 GMT
I'm disappointed the school psych said IEP students have slower curriculums and those without IEPs do better. SO not true! He's in 8th grade. College is still a few years away. Your focus & the school's should be on getting him through middle school & then high school successfully.
What are you thinking the IEP could provide? What questions are you hoping testing will answer? You might look into what a 504 plan could provide. That might be an alternative or a better fit. For either you need a disability identified. Put in writing that you request your son be tested to see if there is a learning disability. Copy the building principal and school psych on it. Then they need to get the ball rolling. Stay on top of it- they do have a certain time frame from a parent request. But it is getting to the end of the year & I know the principals at my boys' schools would try to put it off to next year.
I've found, both when I was teaching years ago and now as a parent (DS11 & DS9), handwriting is not much of a concern. It was more of an issue when I was teaching and that isn't saying much. My boys had 1 worksheet per print letter in kindergarten. Less than that for cursive in third grade. Thank goodness for computers! I would be surprised if you'll get much help from the school on handwriting, but that's my personal experience.
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Post by lorieann13 on Mar 20, 2016 14:20:22 GMT
I second Dysgraphia. With his struggles in math he could also have Dyscalclia (spelling ?)
My daughter has both as well as Aspergers. Due to that her reading comprehension is a little low grade level wise so speech and rsp helped in that area.
Hand writing without tears does help BUT with dysgraphia they need to learn map planning.
If you do not agree with the school evals request they pay for outside evaln
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Post by lorieann13 on Mar 20, 2016 14:24:03 GMT
With dysgraphia, its not just about writting. Its a full motor planning issue so even typing isnt an answer. They need help getting the words out as well as how to form the letter. Typing helps some. But the dysgraphia needs to be addressed
Your site should have an rsp teacher or several. My daughters jr high has 3, and she takes english rsp. Its grade level so not a mild sdc class, and they go just a wee slower but cover everything a gen ed class does
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Post by mollycoddle on Mar 20, 2016 14:24:06 GMT
I don't understand the psychologist's point. If he is tested and doesn't qualify for services, then he won't get an IEP. And if he needs an IEP, that doesn't mean that he will have one until he graduates. You need to find out what's going on, and testing will give you information, which is a good thing.
Don't ask them. Tell them that you want him tested to rule out a learning disability. And good luck to you.
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Post by moveablefeast on Mar 20, 2016 14:24:08 GMT
I guess my thought is, he doesn't have an IEP now and he is struggling to stay above failing grades. So what does it matter for him if on average kids without IEPs do better? That doesn't mean that he will do better without it, that's a generalization over a population.
If it's that hard I absolutely would push for testing. You don't have to continue on an IEP if it isn't doing any good. You don't have to change anything but if you can understand what's making school so hard then you can do more to help.
Even for children whose primary gifting isn't academic, school shouldn't be this hard.
If the school doesn't want to do it, then pursue it through your doctor. Have them refer you to a developmental pediatrician and/or resource center. If you have insurance it will pay for most of this.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2016 14:24:23 GMT
The school psychologist is against it. She keeps telling me he will have a slower curriculum and that students without IEPs do better. I'm sure if a student doesn't have one they do better because they do not need one. My son has an IEP and is in all the same classes he was. The only thing that changed was the addition of a structered study hall to help with his organization and he gets to use a computer to type long essays for test (he has handwriting issues too) I will say my son's situation is a little different. He actually scores in the very high range on state tests (always upper 90%) but his grades were only 80s/low 90s. His grades were that low mostly due to not handing in work or refusing to do some of the work (if he felt it was a waste of time) He also would freeze up when it came to writing too, so he'd be sitting in English class refusing to do the work. Not that he was ever belligerent or anything, he just shut down. He was tested in 7th grade (at the request of the school) His iq is in the 130s, but he was on the autism scale (asperger's type). He was assigned a resource room teacher who helps get his homework assignments sorted out, makes sure he hands stuff in (he was doing his homework but would then misplace it and never hand it in). If he freezes up on a writing assignment, they will work on ways to get him going again (breaking it down so he isn't overwhelmed, giving him extra time, etc) Since then, he has had higher grades, mostly 90s, has been making the honor roll. He gets time to clean his locker out during study hall, which helps. He actually is hoping to drop the structured study hall next year as he feels he doesn't need it, but I haven't decided on that one yet. My best friends sons also had an IEP when he was younger, and he is graduating this year with straight A's, the IEP helped with him as well, though his was more geared towards behavorial issues. It seems like the school psychologist is missing the point of IEPs. She has a notion that kids dont' do well on them, but more likely it's that kids that tend to have them already weren't doing well. They are more work for the staff, so maybe she just doesn't want to do her job.
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twinsmomfla99
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Post by twinsmomfla99 on Mar 20, 2016 14:24:24 GMT
She also let me know college's don't accept IEPs, honestly I doubt he will go to college.. I am a college advisor, and I can tell you that is absolutely false! My college will automatically give accommodations to freshmen for one semester if they have the proper paperwork for the IEP. Sometimes they require an evaluation for future semesters, but not always. I have a student who never had an IEP before but is in the middle of testing for a learning disability now. He was able to manage on his own in high school, but without family support he is really struggling now, and preliminary results suggest he may have a learning disability which will qualify for accommodations. It is NEVER too late for a diagnosis!
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Post by SabrinaM on Mar 20, 2016 14:26:25 GMT
Don't pay for testing or evals. That's the districts responsibility That is ridiculous. This is your child and you have a vested interest in his future, not just his academic years. I can't tell you how often I wish my husband had gotten diagnosed and treated when he was younger. My oldest DD (and DH) have ADD. We got my oldest tested through a trusted psychiatrist. Our insurance covered most if not all of it. Google dysgraphia, as another Pea suggested.
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Post by mollycoddle on Mar 20, 2016 14:27:31 GMT
I have a question. If he has dysgraphia, and it is a motor planning issue, would an OT eval help?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2016 14:28:57 GMT
Is his issue reading or reading comprehension? Reading comprehension is a common problem. If it wasn't caught as low as grade 3/4 then it is possible this is his major issue. It can affect his math mark as well, as the emphasis on word problems requires very strong reading comprehension nowadays. I wonder if you would have benefited more from a tutor to work with him on reading comprehension. Hand writing to me is not a huge deal. Kids nowadays can have terrible handwriting - I don't think it is as major a focus as it used to be. I wouldnt worry about 2 years of a second language. Our district has required 4 years since I was in school - they don't get to a lot of reading comprehension after just two years of a foreign language. Grammar, like subject verb agreement or verb conjugation, and memorization will probably be the focuses. I've seen IEPs work both ways. I've seen them hold kids back, I've seen them help kids get by, and I've seen them be life saving for a child. It comes down to every child is different and you know yours best. If you insist on testing, i'd probably get private testing and leave the school out of it for now. I'd want the knowledge for myself before I pursued anything with the school. P. I am not sure exactly what his issue is. From talking with him lots about this over the past few weeks he seems to be saying he has a hard time with both understanding what he has read and remembering what he has read.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2016 14:32:37 GMT
I have a question. If he has dysgraphia, and it is a motor planning issue, would an OT eval help? I don't know if he has dysgraphia or just bad handwriting as penmenship isn't taught any more past the 1st grade. The school did have the OT look at his handwriting, that's when I was told his isn't the worst they've seen so there is nothing they can do. They are going to provide him with some sort of different lined paper to see if that helps.
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eastcoastpea
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Post by eastcoastpea on Mar 20, 2016 14:32:45 GMT
Put it in writing to his guidance counselor and the principal that you want him tested. Keep a copy for yourself. Do not let them put you off. The sooner he is tested the sooner a plan can be in place to help him feel/be successful in his efforts. Good luck.
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paigepea
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Post by paigepea on Mar 20, 2016 14:37:12 GMT
Is his issue reading or reading comprehension? Reading comprehension is a common problem. If it wasn't caught as low as grade 3/4 then it is possible this is his major issue. It can affect his math mark as well, as the emphasis on word problems requires very strong reading comprehension nowadays. I wonder if you would have benefited more from a tutor to work with him on reading comprehension. Hand writing to me is not a huge deal. Kids nowadays can have terrible handwriting - I don't think it is as major a focus as it used to be. I wouldnt worry about 2 years of a second language. Our district has required 4 years since I was in school - they don't get to a lot of reading comprehension after just two years of a foreign language. Grammar, like subject verb agreement or verb conjugation, and memorization will probably be the focuses. I've seen IEPs work both ways. I've seen them hold kids back, I've seen them help kids get by, and I've seen them be life saving for a child. It comes down to every child is different and you know yours best. If you insist on testing, i'd probably get private testing and leave the school out of it for now. I'd want the knowledge for myself before I pursued anything with the school. P. I am not sure exactly what his issue is. From talking with him lots about this over the past few weeks he seems to be saying he has a hard time with both understanding what he has read and remembering what he has read. To me that sounds like reading comprehension, unless you think he is unable to focus. Have him read part of a book to you and ask him some clarifying questions to see if he's taking in what he's reading. By his age he should be past clarifying questions and onto making deeper connections, but if he is unable to comprehend then that will be difficult. That could cause his mind to wander when he's reading. Or he could be having focusing problems. Will he do his homework with you. Watching him might give you a better idea of what is going on.
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valleyview
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Post by valleyview on Mar 20, 2016 14:37:52 GMT
Regarding college and IEP - when DS was in grad school, he worked part-time at a community college in the disabled student department. They administered tests without time limits, and helped to implement other aspects of IEPs.
eta - your school seems to be failing your child. Are you paying for a tutor, or is that through a school program? Is there a university near you? They may be able to provide some testing services in their education or psych departments.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2016 14:46:05 GMT
Thank you all for your answers here. I really do want to have the school test my son. The thing is in dealing with the psychologist she's pushing to not test and it's making me second guess myself. Making me wonder if I'm just not pushing him enough.
Steven is a good kid, quiet for the most part and doesn't cause problems in class. He has always liked the idea of reading. He has a book case full of books, (I love to read rarely ever say no to buying a book) but the only ones he's ever finished are the Diary of a Wimpy Kid books. He goes to the library checks out books but never finishes them.
He never meant his AR goals in elementary school but the teachers didn't think it was a big deal.
He's our third kid so you'd think I would know what I'm doing by now but I don't.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2016 14:48:12 GMT
Regarding college and IEP - when DS was in grad school, he worked part-time at a community college in the disabled student department. They administered tests without time limits, and helped to implement other aspects of IEPs. eta - your school seems to be failing your child. Are you paying for a tutor, or is that through a school program? Is there a university near you? They may be able to provide some testing services in their education or psych departments. I had this exact meeting with the school last year about testing. At that time he was also failing math. The schools suggestion was a tutor. I pay a retired teacher to tutor him in math for an hour a week. It has helped his math grade.
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melissa
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Post by melissa on Mar 20, 2016 14:51:26 GMT
Absolutely get him tested. No question.
It sounds like something has been missed all along. I trust a mother's instinct more than anyone else. You've been the constant who has observed these issues over the years. He is likely a bright child who has been able to compensate sufficiently to skate by all these years, enough that the school teachers, etc has not been alarmed. But, you are correct that as the work escalates, it's going to be even harder for him. I have a friend who struggled in school for many, many years. Her dyslexia diagnosis did not come until the end of her 8th grade year. It was life changing for her. She went from being someone who they thought would not graduate from high school to salutorian of her high school class and today has a master's degree.
My nephew had issues with handwriting. He was evaluated and has some fine motor skill issues. He is a little younger than your son (7th grade) and is able to use a computer for some work that would normally be done by hand. He also had some therapy to work through some of that.
There are so many subtle learning disabilities. He really should have a thorough, formal evaluation. I am not familiar enough with public schools so I do not know if testing on your own would be a better avenue, but I would certainly start with the school and jump through their hoops.
For foreign language, get him started this summer! Even if it is just something like DuoLingo or Rosetta Stone. Get him used to the sounds and some vocabulary. Give him a head start so it won't be so unfamiliar as it is already clear that he struggles with school work in general.
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Post by ntsf on Mar 20, 2016 15:02:18 GMT
I would have the private testing..because I never trust the school district to look out for your child's best interest...and a private one will be more thorough and with a more highly trained individual. the school response is to try to make less work for itself.
sorry I think the money is worth it..you are looking at a lifetime of issues.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Mar 20, 2016 15:05:29 GMT
See if your school district has an advocate--here a few of ours are also lawyers who have helped immensely where kids needed IEP's or where the school was lax in implementing one, and in one case, where the school totally bullied a single mom and punished the kid for needing to be on an IEP--the teacher refused to follow one, saying the kid was just "bad". Teacher was asked to finally retire. So see if you can find out if there is an advocate--they have experience in these matters.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2016 15:06:42 GMT
I am not sure exactly what his issue is. From talking with him lots about this over the past few weeks he seems to be saying he has a hard time with both understanding what he has read and remembering what he has read. To me that sounds like reading comprehension, unless you think he is unable to focus. Have him read part of a book to you and ask him some clarifying questions to see if he's taking in what he's reading. By his age he should be past clarifying questions and onto making deeper connections, but if he is unable to comprehend then that will be difficult. That could cause his mind to wander when he's reading. Or he could be having focusing problems. Will he do his homework with you. Watching him might give you a better idea of what is going on. He has been doing his homework with me for the past few weeks. I did get permission from the school for him to type his homework which has actually helped him. I think it helps him remember things better and he can read what his answers are and that makes studying easier. I don't know exactly what's going on with his reading, he states reading is hard, he keeps rereading the same sentence. As far as reading goes he has never been at grade level for reading. He's always a couple of grades behind but the school has always reassured me that he was progressing fine even with the lower reading level.
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