scrappinspidey2
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Mar 18, 2015 19:19:37 GMT
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Post by scrappinspidey2 on Mar 24, 2016 16:06:36 GMT
About 10 days ago I posted that my daughter had worked really hard and pulled up her failing grades to A's and B's. In the last 10 days I have gotten three emails from the school informing me of F's in three classes. Three! In 10 days!! Seriously??? Every single one is due to missing assignments. When asked about these assignments she goes off into blame everyone but myself world. She is rude and nasty to me over the situation. Im so tired of it. She never apologies for being mean and nasty. She admits she is being that way but doesn't care. We do have her working with a third party in regards to this ongoing issue but Its weeks like this where I feel its useless. We are in the same damn circle of her not turning in her work and then treating the rest of us like we are at fault. She and I were supposed to go to the movies tonight but I don't want to now. She says she doesn't care and that she didn't want to see the movie anyway (bull). She was supposed to spend the night with her aunt and I feel like she shouldn't do that either. I feel like there needs to be a consequence for not doing the one thing she is charged with doing, but I have been advised by her counselor that these negative punishments are not correct and shouldn't be done. I shouldn't take things from her or ground her because it doesn't work. Yet really doesn't advise me on the best way to handle this situation. Don't get me started on the counselor at this time. Thats a whole different ball of wax that is coming to an end in 2 weeks. She talks of wanting to go to college and her latest is that she wants to study abroad. My internal voice is screaming "how can you study abroad when you don't study here?  " But I keep quiet. She supposedly works an extra hour after school in the library on missing assignments etc. Every Tuesday the teachers rotate through and she is supposed to be working with them. She's been on spring break this week so no working on school. I do not check her assignments daily because the third party has asked me not to. I only get involved when the school emails me with failing grades. 3 F's in 10 days and 7 of those she has been on spring break. *sigh* I just don't understand. |
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Deleted
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May 3, 2024 17:37:04 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2016 16:13:43 GMT
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Post by mikklynn on Mar 24, 2016 16:16:10 GMT
My poor exDIL is going through similar things with our granddaughter, age 12. It's hard! Our DS sticks his head in the sand over it all.
I'm sorry...it must be incredibly frustrating.
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AnotherPea
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Post by AnotherPea on Mar 24, 2016 16:18:07 GMT
I'm sorry. That really sucks. Can I ask why are you allowing a "third party" to determine how you treat your child?
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freebird
Drama Llama
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Post by freebird on Mar 24, 2016 16:24:37 GMT
"but I keep quiet"
why are you keeping quiet. She's not in charge. I'd drop the hammer.
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Deleted
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May 3, 2024 17:37:04 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2016 16:24:56 GMT
My son does the same thing. And we have a counselor. And we have a 3rd party working with him so I'm not the one constantly having to stay on top of things.
Last year (before the 3rd party was added to the mix), we hit April and he was at risk of failing at least 2 major classes (History & English) for the year. Which would mean summer school and a lot of $$$. Since the negative reinforcements never seem to work, I dangled a trip in front of him. He was very excited about it and I thought "Finally! We're getting somewhere!" In the end, he lost out because he continued the behaviors and the deadline for purchasing the lower cost air fare passed. He ultimately did pull everything up in time, but the chance had passed. I had the worst guilt for pulling the trip away.
This year, it looked like maybe some maturity and this 3rd party was going to finally get us past this crap. 1st quarter was amazing. 2nd quarter? Lots of slippage but ultimately decent grades were on the report card. 3rd quarter? He's blowing things off left and right. If he simply would DO THE FLIPPING WORK AND TURN IT IN!!!! he could coast through 4 quarter because he would have achieved the grades in the first 3 quarters to make failing anything for the year impossible.
I'm so over it. So. Flipping. Over. It.
And before anyone goes down the "punish him! take stuff away! ground him!" A) he doesn't go anywhere. Thanks to the assholes that are his classmates who treat anyone with Autism as "untouchable", he has no friends. B) I could punish him and take away his laptop and tablet, shut off his internet access. Then he just sleeps. And what do I do in June when he turns 18? I didn't continue to punish my daughter at this age (what's the point?) and I'm not going to do it with him. C) Natural consequences are the only thing left. He doesn't do the work? He doesn't graduate and he has to go another year. Which is absolutely not something he can stomach. School has been hell on earth for him since 5th grade.
With all that said, he got an English teacher who knows how to work with him. He doesn't get anything special beyond what his IEP mandates (a small amount of extra time). She just has built her class and all it's projects with reasonable, clearly defined chunks of work. He has managed to turn stuff in EARLY. He has gotten amazing grades in her class. He has learned he CAN write a fabulous paper and he has GREAT ideas. He has had A's for the most part all year. And has read 4 books and turned in 5 papers. Real, honest to goodness, high school level papers.
That's what kills me. He is so smart. So talented. So engaging when he wants to be.
Spidey, come have a sit with me on the "frustrated mommas bench".
{{{ hugs }}}
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scrappinspidey2
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Location: In the Parlor with the Fly
Mar 18, 2015 19:19:37 GMT
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Post by scrappinspidey2 on Mar 24, 2016 16:30:33 GMT
No matter how I try to explain how this all came about it just doesn't go well. She is working with an occupational therapist regarding this issue and several others. Due to the severe stress this issue places on us, the OT has suggested she take control of the issue for now to give me a break. Which only works in theory as Im the one getting the emails. The OT lady is amazing and I have no complaints with what they have done. Her other counselor on the other hand...not a fan. Was never really a fan from the get go but my daughter clicked with her and i have seen progress in other areas. This issue not so much.
there is way to much back story to offer. Where we stand now is that she is consistently not turning in work and we are constantly fighting her grades. For the most part i stay out of it but three emails in 10 days? She sees her OT this afternoon so we will be talking about it Im sure.
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scrappinspidey2
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Posts: 2,511
Location: In the Parlor with the Fly
Mar 18, 2015 19:19:37 GMT
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Post by scrappinspidey2 on Mar 24, 2016 16:34:51 GMT
wingnut Im sitting right next to you..probably on your lap  |
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Post by twinks on Mar 24, 2016 16:44:49 GMT
OP - I am sorry that you are going through this. It is hard and I have no answers. Hugs!
Wingnut - my biggest soapbox that I am on right now is people treating my DD like she is disabled. There is a huge difference between a person with "disabilities" and a "disabled" person. Perhaps you DS is doing so good in English because of the way the teacher treats him and what she expects of him. She has raised the bar to what she knows he is capable. I know with my DD, if she has any inkling that someone doesn't believe in her, treats her like she is disabled, etc., she will turn off. It is a vicious cycle. It is hard to break because no matter what you say or do, my DD was turned off. Punishment doesn't work because basically you are punishing for feelings/emotions. Hugs and good luck!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2016 16:53:33 GMT
wingnut Im sitting right next to you..probably on your lap That works for me! LOL! |
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Post by 3SugarBugs on Mar 24, 2016 17:19:28 GMT
Ahh Spidey, I'm so sorry to read this...I presume so much of this is still related to your loss and her own grief.  While not at all the same, my DD lost her best friend to suicide last summer, she was the last to be with him. To say last summer and fall were rough, would be an understatement! She internalized all of the "what did I miss" and acted out BADLY! While we were lucky that her grades different suffer (except for PE...just go to PE...ughh) she suffered and 'didn't care' in so many other facets, yet kept talking about her BIG dreams for college and beyond. I was exactly like you....WTH? At this rate you might not make it to College for you other choices!
BUT, with the help of a counselor she clicked with (not DH and me so much) she slowly came out of the despondent not caring and is back to making good choices. It was a long road, but I took the advice of the counselor and stood firm on my bottom line, but did not over-react to all the dumb decisions she was making....it was beyond painful. I wanted to jump up and down, scream and holler, but really that did no good except to incite her and I really had to change my "minimum standards". The counselor reminded me that she had to feel failure in order to change...she's just wired that way. No amount of talking, reasoning, bribing etc was going to do it. And without a doubt my DD has to feel in control of her decisions. I was there to coach when she failed...and this is so counterintuitive to my normal parenting....I did what I was told and expected of me, so to parent the opposite...I can't even tell you how hard. But we are on the other side.  She still makes decisions that I wouldn't make, but at the heart she's a good kid and headed to college in the fall.
All of that to say, hang in the mama! |
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tiffanytwisted
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Post by tiffanytwisted on Mar 24, 2016 19:07:04 GMT
So sorry you're going through this. They really do make our lives hell sometimes, don't they? I agree that sometimes natural consequences are the only way to go. This may be one of those times. She won't be getting in to a good college w/those grades. And when she's rude to you? The natural consequence is that you stop talking to her. I try to do that more than yell these days. They don't respond to the yelling and it just gives me a headache. Ignoring them is much more effective and easier on my throat.  As far as the school's emails to you, look at them as their way of simply keeping you in the loop. There's nothing for you to do, you are simply being made aware. As long as she is also aware of what her grades are and what that means for her, that's it. You're done. I do punish my younger one still, but it's coming to an end. Like Murphy said, it's stops losing it's power, so why do it? We did just take away his Xbox due to crappy grades, but that was because his time on the Xbox is what was getting in the way of homework. As far as punishing for the sake of punishment goes, we're pretty much done. Hang in there. You know what they say - this too, shall pass. |
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MsKnit
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Post by MsKnit on Mar 24, 2016 19:23:01 GMT
Sitting on the bench with you. Mine would do the work. However, he couldn't be bothered to turn it in. We fought with him from 8th grade through high school. He saw numerous counselors.
He kept his grades high enough to remain in band. His dad wouldn't get on board with taking that away if he didn't meet standards WE set.
He dropped out his first semester of college. I was dealing with my own classwork, a husband who had been in a bicycle accident and was lucky to still be alive, followed by being nurse to him after he had surgery, being chauffeur, and taking care of everything around the house. I simply did not have it in me to continue to cajole him into at least finishing the semester. He has to want it. I can't make him want it.
I do have to give him credit for taking care of many of the chores around the house after he dropped out.
He has me completely baffled.
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LeaP
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Post by LeaP on Mar 24, 2016 19:34:00 GMT
Hugs.
My two (12 & 15) make me insane. It is like living with Jekyll & Hyde with periods as sloths in between. I've gone the punitive route and gotten to the point of diminishing returns, so now I am trying a different approach.
They both like shopping & freedom. They need allowance for $$. In order to get allowance, they need to do 75% of their chores and maintain a B in academic classes. I'm trying to be more positive and give rewards and praise.
If I don't jump off a cliff during spring break, I'll let you know how it goes.
Wanted to add, I went through an apathetic period where I told each of them that ultimately it is their life. If they want to eat garbage and get bad grades because of their choices they would reap the health issues and diminished opportunities.
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AnotherPea
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Post by AnotherPea on Mar 24, 2016 19:43:48 GMT
I think most of this will fall on the teen's shoulders. Ultimately, she chooses her life. As mothers we pray that such choices don't have lifelong consequences. But they might.
The way that I've approached such issues (granted, on a smaller scale, so take this for what it is worth) is that I simply refuse to be negatively impacted by my kids' poor choices (as much as possible) and I refuse to enable/encourage the behavior.
That means that the cushy life my children live would be gone. Not necessarily as punishment, but because the reward of having such niceties comes only when you do your job and do it well. When I do MY job I get a paycheck that allows for a variety of food, periodic trips away, changes in wardrobe, cable tv, etc. If I didn't do MY job, the family wouldn't have such things. My children's jobs are to go to school and work to the best of their abilities. They also have jobs to help make the household run properly. If they don't do THEIR jobs, they don't get to benefit from me doing mine.
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Post by Zee on Mar 24, 2016 20:03:48 GMT
Welcome to my world. This kid of mine can ace every test but can't be bothered to do homework, write papers, or turn anything in. Now his girlfriend is planning on going off to college and guess who can't go with? Too bad, so sad. Guess he should have listened to me for the past ten-plus years. I'm done fighting him, he can enjoy community college. (If it makes you feel better, DH was the same and screwed around being stupid and blowing things off and now that he's grown, he's the boss and doing quite well! So there is hope!) |
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Post by leftturnonly on Mar 24, 2016 20:11:41 GMT
wingnut Im sitting right next to you..probably on your lap I'm right there on this bench too. Except my kid's older and school is in the rearview mirror. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2016 20:25:36 GMT
I feel like there is a lot of focus here on what happens after your DD gets a bad grade, but how much effort is going into before she gets a bad grade?
Does your DD know how to study?
Often parents will say 'go study' and assume the school has told them how
and the student will sit looking at the same 2 pages for an hour or reading the same question 10 times and still not understand what is being asked or where to start
Studying is a skill that I find isn't taught but is assumed everyone knows how to do.
In my first degree, I struggled and almost quit 3 times. I basically just passed with a few very limited highs
I then taught myself how to study and in my second degree I never got a mark under 90% and it felt easy because I knew how to study
My intelligence level didn't change but my study skills did
Ask yourself if DD has all of the right ingredients to succeed before you put effort into punishing her for not doing something she's probably never been taught how to do
I say all of the above not knowing anything about your DD and her history, but just put it forward for consideration.
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scrappinspidey2
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Post by scrappinspidey2 on Mar 24, 2016 20:39:03 GMT
Its a fair point Ramblin and heres the thing...she does the work. We have seen it. We watch her do the work. We talk about it all the time too. The one thing she won't do that bugs me is flash cards but hey, to each their own Her test scores are fine, but unfortunately for her homework sometimes combines for more points than the tests so just getting a good grade on the test isn't good enough. She doesn't turn in the work. She doesn't think to check the online system to see what is missing and turn it in. She waits till either myself or the OT does it. Which is something the OT is trying to get away from. We are trying to put it on her shoulders and make her think these things through, but she has a different way of thinking about things and doesn't seem to follow the standard that most of us follow. I can't fathom putting all that time into the homework and not turning it in. She doesn't see that as an issue. She doesn't mind doing the work. She just doesn't remember to turn it in. she ends up putting it in her backpack never to be seen again. She is incredibly smart. She's very creative as well. She has no sense of organization or logic it appears. What is logical to you or I, is completely out of left field for her. I don't think her band has a grade requirement as she has never been academically suspended from it. So I don't know where the natural consequences would come from. She doesn't graduate in a year and a half? She will just keep getting through till her senior year and then what? We become seniors for 10 years (yes I know....over estimating, but honestly it feels that way some days) ? I took a nap...eating a late lunch/early dinner. hopefully that will help. Its very frustrating to have a super smart kid do the bare minimum and throw out there they just don't care enough to change anything and its everyone's fault but theirs as to why they are performing so poorly. |
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tduby1
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Post by tduby1 on Mar 24, 2016 20:43:27 GMT
Ahh Spidey, I'm so sorry to read this...I presume so much of this is still related to your loss and her own grief.
This was exactly my thought... that she is still struggling a lot with the sudden loss of her dad. I am so sorry. |
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scrappinspidey2
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Location: In the Parlor with the Fly
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Post by scrappinspidey2 on Mar 24, 2016 20:47:39 GMT
For what its worth....if anything....this is not a new thing brought about by the accident. We had been struggling before with this issue and had been working with the schools there regarding the issue. The key difference was there was two of us so if one of us was past our stress point, the other could step in and take over. Now its just me and my limits are a lot shorter than they used to be. Do I think the accident aggravated it? Sure. We have seen a lot of progress in that area though. I truly think this is just how she is. She has no desire to change the habit, has never had the desire to change the habit, so what is the point of changing now? I guess I just need to learn to let it go but I feel that until she gets through high school it is still my responsibility to teach her how to meet deadlines, turn in work , do a good job on the work etc. These are things that will be required of her throughout her life no matter what she does for a living.
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AnotherPea
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Post by AnotherPea on Mar 24, 2016 21:11:59 GMT
FWIW, I had a student like your daughter. He's a senior now and we were talking about his choices about a month ago. He doesn't do homework at all though. He is smart enough that he doesn't need it to prepare for tests. He isn't smart enough to realize that proving mastery doesn't always come down to final exams.
He could easily have been in the top ten of his class. But he is too lazy to do what it takes. He chooses classes that are interesting to him but basically audits them. He has a dismal GPA. but he consistently had the highest test grades in my class. That is not an easy thing to do.
As a result his choices are limited. He won't find out how he messed up his future until later. His family is solid middle class which means he is either going to have to miss out on college or go into debt to pay for it. They have already stated that they cannot afford to pay all of it for him. He could have easily earned a full ride with his intelligence.
His refusal to accept responsibility isn't going to win him over with employers either.
He's a good kid. He's had so many adults try to reason with him. He's convinced that grades don't matter and that the path of least resistance is always the one to take.
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Post by kernriver on Mar 24, 2016 21:16:58 GMT
I dont know how old she is, but if she is in high school, quit trying to rescue/help her. Let her flunk. I think its the only way to teach some kids about real life. What's the worst that could happen? GED, a gap year and community college. Let he see how HER failures effect HER life.
I know its really easy to dole out advice. Its super hard to take that advice. Im glad Im past all that bullshit.
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scrappinspidey2
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,511
Location: In the Parlor with the Fly
Mar 18, 2015 19:19:37 GMT
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Post by scrappinspidey2 on Mar 24, 2016 21:17:51 GMT
This is it exactly and it carries over to other parts of her life. She plays trumpet but feels she plays well enough she doesn't need practice and doesn't need theory classes, yet she is now saying she wants to be a band director. She has taught her self to knit but stated to me and her grandmother she doesn't need to take classes because she knows it already....except she doesn't as shown by all of her unfinished projects. Ask why they aren't finished....."I don't know how to....." but she doesn't need classes. Same with school. IF she can pass the tests, what is the point of homework?
Super smart..could also have scholarships to college if she just put a tad bit of effort into it. Unfortunately that isn't going to happen.
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Post by 3SugarBugs on Mar 24, 2016 21:25:57 GMT
Thanks for the additional information Spidey. I think the others have offered great advice as it relates to school work. I know it's hard to let her fail, and really for just a little effort on her end, it could be avoided.  Uggghhhh, teenagers! |
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Post by refugeepea on Mar 24, 2016 21:58:01 GMT
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Montannie
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Post by Montannie on Mar 24, 2016 22:47:34 GMT
Is there anyway she can turn her work in immediately after she finishes it? By e-mail, or submitting on line?
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Post by freecharlie on Mar 24, 2016 23:43:29 GMT
I fight this battle day after day with my son. He's admitted he is just lazy. He, like others, can fly through stuff. He doesn't need to do the homework to pass the test (neither did I), so he doesn't and he has been ineligible mulitple times this year.
I'd like to tell you these strategies work, because they should, but they don't always work with my son...but I am a high school teacher and this is what we do with our students. At some point, however, we quit. I am not doing more work for your grade than you do.
This is a mix of what I do with my kid and what I do with my students:
Go through the backpack, binders, and locker. Get it organized. Stress that every time she gets a sheet from the teacher, not matter what it is, writer her name and date on it.
Use a planner/agenda. Write down things done in class and due dates. I check my student's once a week...some do it, some don't. The ones who do are doing better. I try to remember to check DS's but I am a slacker at home and forget. If I were more consistent, maybe he would be too,
If there is something due and I know it, I text him to remind him to turn it in. I am hopeful that this one need to happen much longer.
Since she is doing her homework (mine isn't) this might not be an issue, but set up a specific area to do work.
If ds misses an assignment or does poorly, he has to go to school early and work on it at school. I follow up with teachers to make sure he was there.
At my school we have a subject a night that stays late and helps any kid who needs it. Some kids are put on a list and force to come, others come by choice. We also have Saturday school if the students are doing poorly in multiple subjects due to missing work.
Finally, maybe she has to fail to learn. At a certain point, there isn't anything left that you can do. Step back and see what happens. This is absolutely the hardest for me because I don't want his freshman year to dictate his future.
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Post by mlynn on Mar 24, 2016 23:47:37 GMT
A different tack might be to focus on her future. You say she wants to be a band director. Talk to her about that. Ask her what she needs to do to have the credentials to be one. ASK HER. Do not tell her. Suggest she find out what kind of education she will need. Then suggest she look at the programs at different schools and figure out where she might want to go.
The next step would be to find out what she would need to do to be accepted by admissions at the schools she has interest in and to the programs they have. let the light bulb come on for her on her own (with your gentle steering.) Then how will she pay for it. This would include what kind of scholarships are available and how to qualify for them. Hopefully these things will click and she will see the benefit of getting good grades so that she can have the future that she wants without a huge mountain of debt. Said debt would also limit her options regarding her future.
Doing the same with study abroad programs could help as well. Have her do the research. Approach it as helping her meet her goals. |
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Post by lancermom on Mar 25, 2016 2:06:49 GMT
Thank Goodness there are more parents like me! OP, if you filled in with he and his you could have written it for me. I gave up. He is a junior and has no respect for me when I try to help....he is in his fathers hands now. Ten years of me doing everything and still no respect or cares. I am done. He was told day after graduation he is out or has to pay rent. I am not going to support someone who is lazy or doesn't care.
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" But I keep quiet. She supposedly works an extra hour after school in the library on missing assignments etc. Every Tuesday the teachers rotate through and she is supposed to be working with them. She's been on spring break this week so no working on school. I do not check her assignments daily because the third party has asked me not to. I only get involved when the school emails me with failing grades. 
While not at all the same, my DD lost her best friend to suicide last summer, she was the last to be with him. To say last summer and fall were rough, would be an understatement! She internalized all of the "what did I miss" and acted out BADLY! While we were lucky that her grades different suffer (except for PE...just go to PE...ughh) she suffered and 'didn't care' in so many other facets, yet kept talking about her BIG dreams for college and beyond. I was exactly like you....WTH? At this rate you might not make it to College for you other choices! 
She still makes decisions that I wouldn't make, but at the heart she's a good kid and headed to college in the fall. 
Uggghhhh, teenagers!
