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Post by katieanna on Mar 30, 2016 23:46:21 GMT
Oh, brother! I just saw this on the news and Trump was asked, specifically may I add, if abortion was illegal.... well, if it was illegal, the perpetrators should be punished. I mean, isn't that why we have rules/laws in the first place? I'm not a Trump fan but the media's obvious witch hunt is getting ridiculous. The media must actually think that Trump may win.... He specifically said "the woman" should be punished. And then went on to say that men shouldn't be held as responsible, that it was the woman's responsibility. He needs a sex-Ed course. Just before the evening news he has now issued another statement, doing a complete reversal saying that the doctor should be punished and that the woman shouldn't and is a "victim." Sorry, but when Trump issues a completely different statement in response to criticism to the first, it wasn't a witch hunt, it was Trump showing his true colors. No, it IS a media witch hunt. I haven't felt right about Trump from the beginning. His idiosyncrasies, waffling and belligerent attitude are NOT news; he's known for that. So when Trump began a serious presidential campaign, I, personally, thought it was a big Pat Paulson joke...and I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of other Americans felt the same way. But then something happened. Trump spoke out against the politically-correct status quo and garnered for himself the support of millions of Americans who are sick to death of that quo, attracted to a leader who isn't afraid to speak his mind. So, what do you think the media's more concerned with... what the consequences would be for someone who had an abortion if abortions were illegal, or influencing the voting choice of millions of Americans who are sick of the status quo?
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Mar 30, 2016 23:47:15 GMT
Donald Trump: 'There has to be some form of punishment' for women who have abortions via.fox8.com/visjXAnd what consequence should there be for the man who got them Pregnant. They don't get that way themselves. Love it!!!
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Post by leftturnonly on Mar 30, 2016 23:47:24 GMT
That's the whole point of making them illegal, right? So you can punish women for having sex and exercising control over their own bodies? If it was really about the lives of children, the conversation would be about making birth control highly effective and widely available, and funding programs to make sure no child lives in poverty.Something to think about when voting for anyone on the far right ... Trump's once again just saying what they're all already thinking.Damn it! Just when I want to like your post you make some broad generalization that I find ridiculous. <harumph> Lets just say that I agree with the bolded here and the rest I'm going to pretend just isn't there. I'll go sit quietly off on the sidelines reading my book while you and your friends go play ball with the stuff I don't want to hear and we can all be happy. Neither one of us likes Trump and that's good enough.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Mar 30, 2016 23:50:00 GMT
Bizarre. But of course we wouldn't want them "punished with a baby" as Obama has suggested. ETA: You left this part out of your post "if the procedure were outlawed." Without reading the article, your post is very misleading. I wasn't attempting to be misleading--I ran out of room in the title --it only allows so many characters, and the first line of the comment is a direct copy/paste from the news source. I posted the link to the article, so that anyone wanting to could read it in its entirety rather than me try to paraphrase !
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Mar 30, 2016 23:52:26 GMT
That's the whole point of making them illegal, right? So you can punish women for having sex and exercising control over their own bodies? If it was really about the lives of children, the conversation would be about making birth control highly effective and widely available, and funding programs to make sure no child lives in poverty. Something to think about when voting for anyone on the far right ... Trump's once again just saying what they're all already thinking. Good point! Prevention, great concept!!
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Post by leftturnonly on Mar 30, 2016 23:54:02 GMT
Oh, brother! I just saw this on the news and Trump was asked, specifically may I add, if abortion was illegal.... well, if it was illegal, the perpetrators should be punished. I mean, isn't that why we have rules/laws in the first place? I'm not a Trump fan but the media's obvious witch hunt is getting ridiculous. The media must actually think that Trump may win.... He specifically said "the woman" should be punished. And then went on to say that men shouldn't be held as responsible, that it was the woman's responsibility. He needs a sex-Ed course. Just before the evening news he has now issued another statement, doing a complete reversal saying that the doctor should be punished and that the woman shouldn't and is a "victim." Sorry, but when Trump issues a completely different statement in response to criticism to the first, it wasn't a witch hunt, it was Trump showing his true colors. I *think* she means that the media are on the scent. Now that they know how incomprehensible Trump's answers are, they are doubling down to allow him more opportunity to make a fool of himself. Something in that line, anyway.
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Post by lucyg on Mar 30, 2016 23:58:30 GMT
Oh, brother! I just saw this on the news and Trump was asked, specifically may I add, if abortion was illegal.... well, if it was illegal, the perpetrators should be punished. I mean, isn't that why we have rules/laws in the first place? I'm not a Trump fan but the media's obvious witch hunt is getting ridiculous. The media must actually think that Trump may win.... I think it's a given that he's talking about if abortion were no longer legal. I've been out all day, not listening to news, but still when I saw the subject line, I did NOT think, "Oh no, now he wants to punish women for having legal abortions." No, what I thought was, "He wants to make abortion illegal and punish women who have an illegal one." And I do thank every one of you with a moral objection to abortion, but an unwillingness to outlaw them anyway. That's a difficult position to hold, and I thank you on behalf of every woman who chooses to have an abortion, whether it's a hard choice for her or a simple one.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2016 0:01:49 GMT
Bizarre. But of course we wouldn't want them "punished with a baby" as Obama has suggested. ETA: You left this part out of your post "if the procedure were outlawed." Without reading the article, your post is very misleading. I wasn't attempting to be misleading--I ran out of room in the title --it only allows so many characters, and the first line of the comment is a direct copy/paste from the news source. I posted the link to the article, so that anyone wanting to could read it in its entirety rather than me try to paraphrase ! There was plenty of room in the body of the post to include that, yet you didn't. That's the thing, you provided the link but not everyone reads them or can even access them (work restrictions and all), relying instead on what you're pointing out. "if the procedure were outlawed." is a pretty important part of the entire story you wanted to point out, but you left it out of your unlimited space in the body of your post.
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Post by leftturnonly on Mar 31, 2016 0:02:31 GMT
BTW – for all those conservatives who will vote for Trump over a Democrat – you do not know what he will do it when he gets in the office. He is a liar liar pants on fire! And Hillary is a lying liar who lies. To her credit, though, she is presenting herself in a far more positive manner than Trump is. She has obviously done her homework and can speak in depth about all the important issues.
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Post by elaine on Mar 31, 2016 0:22:35 GMT
He specifically said "the woman" should be punished. And then went on to say that men shouldn't be held as responsible, that it was the woman's responsibility. He needs a sex-Ed course. Just before the evening news he has now issued another statement, doing a complete reversal saying that the doctor should be punished and that the woman shouldn't and is a "victim." Sorry, but when Trump issues a completely different statement in response to criticism to the first, it wasn't a witch hunt, it was Trump showing his true colors. I *think* she means that the media are on the scent. Now that they know how incomprehensible Trump's answers are, they are doubling down to allow him more opportunity to make a fool of himself. Something in that line, anyway. Now, your response I understand. I don't think that is what she meant though, given her later response to me that the "voting public sick of the status quo" loves the fact he speaks his mind, and that she thinks that it is the media that is trying to dissuade them.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Mar 31, 2016 0:28:36 GMT
I wasn't attempting to be misleading--I ran out of room in the title --it only allows so many characters, and the first line of the comment is a direct copy/paste from the news source. I posted the link to the article, so that anyone wanting to could read it in its entirety rather than me try to paraphrase ! There was plenty of room in the body of the post to include that, yet you didn't. That's the thing, you provided the link but not everyone reads them or can even access them (work restrictions and all), relying instead on what you're pointing out. "if the procedure were outlawed." is a pretty important part of the entire story you wanted to point out, but you left it out of your unlimited space in the body of your post. Jesus Christ! I just copy/pasted what came across my news feed without altering it or editing to include my opinion!!! I'm not pointing out anything--just pasted EXACTLY what was on the wire.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2016 0:30:06 GMT
Oh, brother! I just saw this on the news and Trump was asked, specifically may I add, if abortion was illegal.... well, if it was illegal, the perpetrators should be punished. I mean, isn't that why we have rules/laws in the first place? I'm not a Trump fan but the media's obvious witch hunt is getting ridiculous. The media must actually think that Trump may win.... I think it's a given that he's talking about if abortion were no longer legal. I've been out all day, not listening to news, but still when I saw the subject line, I did NOT think, "Oh no, now he wants to punish women for having legal abortions."
No, what I thought was, "He wants to make abortion illegal and punish women who have an illegal one." And I do thank every one of you with a moral objection to abortion, but an unwillingness to outlaw them anyway. That's a difficult position to hold, and I thank you on behalf of every woman who chooses to have an abortion, whether it's a hard choice for her or a simple one. I've had a lot of moments where I can see beyond the hysteria and hype over what he says, to what he actually said, but too many times that lead me to think, with Trump, you never really know.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Mar 31, 2016 0:32:41 GMT
I'm trying to post a snapshot of the article from my feed so you can see I did not add or edit anything!
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Post by leftturnonly on Mar 31, 2016 0:34:33 GMT
I *think* she means that the media are on the scent. Now that they know how incomprehensible Trump's answers are, they are doubling down to allow him more opportunity to make a fool of himself. Something in that line, anyway. Now, your response I understand. I don't think that is what she meant though, given her later response to me that the "voting public sick of the status quo" loves the fact he speaks his mind, and that she thinks that it is the media that is trying to dissuade them. katieanna is certainly capable of speaking her own mind here, so I don't want to be putting words in her mouth. Trump has attracted a lot of people who just want change. There is a lot of money behind people not wanting change. It's anyone's guess why the media is baiting Trump with provacative questions about hypothetical abortion laws THAT DO NOT EXIST. She gave you her best guess, that the media is being influenced by the people with big money who don't want change. That's not really the point though. The point is that in asking such a loaded question, Trump was certain to give them a ridiculous sound-byte that they could lead the news cycle with. He just happened to land his answer so poorly that he rewarded them quadruple word score. Which means that we have more of this to look forward to in the very near future.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2016 0:37:15 GMT
There was plenty of room in the body of the post to include that, yet you didn't. That's the thing, you provided the link but not everyone reads them or can even access them (work restrictions and all), relying instead on what you're pointing out. "if the procedure were outlawed." is a pretty important part of the entire story you wanted to point out, but you left it out of your unlimited space in the body of your post. Jesus Christ! I just copy/pasted what came across my news feed without altering it or editing to include my opinion!!! I'm not pointing out anything--just pasted EXACTLY what was on the wire. The story. You are pointing out the story by posting it. And and important part of the story is "if the procedure were outlawed" which you left out of your post. You didn't alter or edit, but you omitted.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Mar 31, 2016 0:40:35 GMT
I swear the app is wonky! I cannot post pictures, when I do go to web version I see so many more comments by others and I can now see that mytnice is GiaLupea
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Mar 31, 2016 0:41:57 GMT
Jesus Christ! I just copy/pasted what came across my news feed without altering it or editing to include my opinion!!! I'm not pointing out anything--just pasted EXACTLY what was on the wire. The story. You are pointing out the story by posting it. And and important part of the story is "if the procedure were outlawed" which you left out of your post. You didn't alter or edit, but you omitted. I did not omit anything Gia! I posted EXACTLY what came off the news wire. I'm not trying to imply or insinuate any take on the story.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2016 0:48:43 GMT
The story. You are pointing out the story by posting it. And and important part of the story is "if the procedure were outlawed" which you left out of your post. You didn't alter or edit, but you omitted. I did not omit anything Gia! I posted EXACTLY what came off the news wire. I'm not trying to imply or insinuate any take on the story. Did you read the article before you linked it?
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Post by *KAS* on Mar 31, 2016 0:51:44 GMT
The story. You are pointing out the story by posting it. And and important part of the story is "if the procedure were outlawed" which you left out of your post. You didn't alter or edit, but you omitted. I did not omit anything Gia! I posted EXACTLY what came off the news wire. I'm not trying to imply or insinuate any take on the story. She understands that you copied and pasted what came from the news wire. She's saying that you SHOULD have ADDED to what you pasted to make it be in context. The headline IS misleading, and of course you have an opinion. Why else would you just randomly paste a newswire headline here? Just feel like the board is moving slow? LOL
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Post by elaine on Mar 31, 2016 0:51:57 GMT
Now, your response I understand. I don't think that is what she meant though, given her later response to me that the "voting public sick of the status quo" loves the fact he speaks his mind, and that she thinks that it is the media that is trying to dissuade them. katieanna is certainly capable of speaking her own mind here, so I don't want to be putting words in her mouth. Trump has attracted a lot of people who just want change. There is a lot of money behind people not wanting change. It's anyone's guess why the media is baiting Trump with provacative questions about hypothetical abortion laws THAT DO NOT EXIST. She gave you her best guess, that the media is being influenced by the people with big money who don't want change. That's not really the point though. The point is that in asking such a loaded question, Trump was certain to give them a ridiculous sound-byte that they could lead the news cycle with. He just happened to land his answer so poorly that he rewarded them quadruple word score. Which means that we have more of this to look forward to in the very near future. Okay, so this is a conspiracy against Trump? But, in terms of abortion, for example, there is a large group of people who DO want change. Or in terms of illegal immigration. Yet, he is uninformed and misogynistic enough to alienate even large numbers of people and groups who would love to see abortion made illegal. And people who actually want to solve illegal immigration issues. Sorry, the crazy big-money backed media conspiracy theory sounds exactly like something Trump's camp would craft and put out there. The only thing that would make it better would be if it were female big money that was controlling the media. And it is insulting to the rest of us - on both sides of the aisle - committed to influencing political and societal change, to write off our reactions to Trump's offensive verbiage as being controlled by the media. No one puts a gun to his head and forces him to say these things - he does it all on his own. When someone shows you who he is, believe him. Not conspiracy theories.
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Post by *KAS* on Mar 31, 2016 0:53:29 GMT
I don't think anyone is going to be making pregnancy illegal. I didn't say pregnancy would/should be illegal just you don't have any need of an abortion if you aren't pregnant. And women very rarely get pregnant all alone. So if a woman should have a consequence for getting an abortion then the person who got them that way should have one as well. But if you want to punish the man, then you take away the argument that it's her right to choose. What if he doesn't want her to have an abortion but she chooses to anyway? Should she not be allowed to, or should he still be punished even though he didn't want her to do this (hypothetical) illegal act?
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Post by elaine on Mar 31, 2016 1:04:38 GMT
I didn't say pregnancy would/should be illegal just you don't have any need of an abortion if you aren't pregnant. And women very rarely get pregnant all alone. So if a woman should have a consequence for getting an abortion then the person who got them that way should have one as well. But if you want to punish the man, then you take away the argument that it's her right to choose. What if he doesn't want her to have an abortion but she chooses to anyway? Should she not be allowed to, or should he still be punished even though he didn't want her to do this (hypothetical) illegal act? Huh? If you make abortion illegal, you already take away her right to choose. She won't be allowed to choose, regardless of whether the guy he got her pregnant wants her to abort or not. Your argument makes no sense. If it is legal, no one gets punished. If abortion is illegal, if you are going to punish one party responsible for the unwanted pregnancy, you should punish the other party equally. Although, I think punishing either party is reprehensible, but that isn't the point. And, in the world of legal abortion, there are plenty of guys, who when faced with the actuality of fathering a child with a person they don't want to marry, are supportive of terminating a pregnancy.
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Post by lucyg on Mar 31, 2016 1:05:37 GMT
Now, your response I understand. I don't think that is what she meant though, given her later response to me that the "voting public sick of the status quo" loves the fact he speaks his mind, and that she thinks that it is the media that is trying to dissuade them. katieanna is certainly capable of speaking her own mind here, so I don't want to be putting words in her mouth. Trump has attracted a lot of people who just want change. There is a lot of money behind people not wanting change. It's anyone's guess why the media is baiting Trump with provacative questions about hypothetical abortion laws THAT DO NOT EXIST. She gave you her best guess, that the media is being influenced by the people with big money who don't want change. That's not really the point though. The point is that in asking such a loaded question, Trump was certain to give them a ridiculous sound-byte that they could lead the news cycle with. He just happened to land his answer so poorly that he rewarded them quadruple word score. Which means that we have more of this to look forward to in the very near future. I think it is a completely legitimate question to ask any candidate who professes to be anti-abortion. (1) does that mean you want to outlaw abortion? (2) what exactly would that cover? incest/rape, health of the mother, health of the baby, etc. (3) what would enforcement look like? (4) what would punishment (for health care workers and for women having an abortion) look like? Questions that absolutely must be asked. There are plenty of people in this country who would like to go back to the days before Roe v. Wade. They need to be very clear with voters before the election about what exactly that means to them and what direction they want to move this country in.
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Post by hop2 on Mar 31, 2016 1:13:36 GMT
I didn't say pregnancy would/should be illegal just you don't have any need of an abortion if you aren't pregnant. And women very rarely get pregnant all alone. So if a woman should have a consequence for getting an abortion then the person who got them that way should have one as well. But if you want to punish the man, then you take away the argument that it's her right to choose. What if he doesn't want her to have an abortion but she chooses to anyway? Should she not be allowed to, or should he still be punished even though he didn't want her to do this (hypothetical) illegal act? I don't 'want' to punish anyone actually, I'm just tired of the pass society always seems to give men while holding the woman completely responsible. So so tired. Time for a change.
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katybee
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,448
Jun 25, 2014 23:25:39 GMT
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Post by katybee on Mar 31, 2016 1:24:17 GMT
BTW – for all those conservatives who will vote for Trump over a Democrat – you do not know what he will do it when he gets in the office. He is a liar liar pants on fire! And Hillary is a lying liar who lies. To her credit, though, she is presenting herself in a far more positive manner than Trump is. She has obviously done her homework and can speak in depth about all the important issues. I agree. All politicians lie. All politicians change their minds on things. But do you really, really believe Trump is a true conservative who believes everything he says? I'm not saying he's lying about everything. Sadly, I think he really does want to build a wall and "temporarily" ban all Muslims from entering the country. But on the social issues that he's done a 180° on--I don't believe him. I don't. Yes--Hillary lies. But I'm 99% sure she is a liberal. But I don't believe for one second that Trump is as conservative as he pretends.
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Post by elaine on Mar 31, 2016 1:24:31 GMT
But if you want to punish the man, then you take away the argument that it's her right to choose. What if he doesn't want her to have an abortion but she chooses to anyway? Should she not be allowed to, or should he still be punished even though he didn't want her to do this (hypothetical) illegal act? I don't 'want' to punish anyone actually, I'm just tired of the pass society always seems to give men while holding the woman completely responsible. So so tired. Time for a change. But, but, you can't want change! Only people who are Trump supporters want change. Or so it has been suggested. Anyone who has any negative reaction to Trump's idiocy is against change and for the status quo. Or so the conspiracy theory seems to say.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2016 1:34:33 GMT
I did not omit anything Gia! I posted EXACTLY what came off the news wire. I'm not trying to imply or insinuate any take on the story. Did you read the article before you linked it? Give it up. You have already point out to her your version of her missteps. To continue will make you look petty and insulting. Although I think you may have already been insulting.
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flute4peace
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,757
Jul 3, 2014 14:38:35 GMT
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Post by flute4peace on Mar 31, 2016 1:45:49 GMT
Did you read the article before you linked it? Give it up. You have already point out to her your version of her missteps. To continue will make you look petty and insulting. Although I think you may have already been insulting. Too late. For both of them. They need to take it out to the playground again.
I'm really not interested in the government spending tons of money to debate this topic. For me, it's a moral decision, I have my opinion but I don't feel the need to force it down anyone's throat. It's a very personal thing.
There are plenty of other good uses for that money. The waste in this campaign staggers me.
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Deleted
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Oct 1, 2024 22:27:34 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2016 1:47:52 GMT
I did not omit anything Gia! I posted EXACTLY what came off the news wire. I'm not trying to imply or insinuate any take on the story. She understands that you copied and pasted what came from the news wire. She's saying that you SHOULD have ADDED to what you pasted to make it be in context. The headline IS misleading, and of course you have an opinion. Why else would you just randomly paste a newswire headline here? Just feel like the board is moving slow? LOL Exactly! Thank you.
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Post by anxiousmom on Mar 31, 2016 2:00:19 GMT
Good heavens. I heard the initial comment. I saw the clarification of the statement.
I am pro-choice. Why? Because pro-choice means that every woman gets to make her own choice irrespective of what MY choice would be. I don't get to decide for everyone.
But what bothers me the most about the clarification?? The fact that he referred to the woman as being the victim. I get that he is talking about if abortion became illegal, but really? Victim? As though the woman somehow accidentally stumbled into a nefarious back alley abortion mill and was forced by a creepy man in a white coat and a gun to get an abortion? Jeez Louise, give women some damn credit.
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