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Post by wholarmor on Apr 15, 2016 9:04:39 GMT
Someone posted on FB their dislike of Bernie and free college tuition. He said that if athletes didn't need a sports scholarship, they wouldn't play in college. I think that's a load of bunk because many athletes are shooting for professional sports, and their love of the game would keep them motivated, plus I'm sure they would still get a lot of extra benefits that the average college student wouldn't get.
So do you agree with this person? I'm not interested in what people think about Bernie's ideas, I just want to know if this would really be a deterrent for college athletics.
One person who said she was an athlete agreed with him.
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Post by justkat on Apr 15, 2016 9:11:22 GMT
I was an athlete throughout junior high, high school and my under-graduate years of college.
I had no intentions of being a professional athlete so maybe that makes a difference. Were it not for the scholarships I wouldn't have played sports in college.
I did love the sports I played. But school, for me, was about the academics and starting my career. The sports/scholarships were a means to that end.
So all that to say that yes I guess I agree with your FaceBook friend. :-)
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Gravity
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by Gravity on Apr 15, 2016 9:14:27 GMT
Some pro sports will not let someone play straight out of high school. As a result, the person would still need to play in college.
I hate that athletes get full ride scholarships when they can barely spell their own name and add 2+2. They go to school for free for a couple of years until they can enter the draft, then quit school and never complete their education. At the same time, there are kids who want an education and have to work their butts off to pay their own way through school.
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Post by wholarmor on Apr 15, 2016 9:24:30 GMT
Gravity, I agree with you to a point. I know a lot of full ride athletic scholarship kids who are very bright, and all the seniors at our local universities graduate with some degree. I can't say that they all worked their tails off for those degrees. My husband used to tutor athletes at the university, and they would get away with so much! Plus, they had an attitude to boot! I hate that athletes get paid so much professionally, and the people who got them there(teachers, etc.) don't get paid enough.
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AnotherPea
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Jan 4, 2015 1:47:52 GMT
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Post by AnotherPea on Apr 15, 2016 10:39:25 GMT
I agree with your friend. I know a lot of kids who are going to school on athletic scholarships. But their chosen sports don't really translate into professional athletics. Women's golf, swimming, lacrosse.
But I have to ask, so? Who cares if college sports go away? Never understood why they are that important anyway.
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Post by Merge on Apr 15, 2016 10:41:53 GMT
By all means, let's base educational policy and funding decisions on how they may affect athletic programs ...
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teddyw
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Jun 29, 2014 1:56:04 GMT
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Post by teddyw on Apr 15, 2016 10:52:45 GMT
By all means, let's base educational policy and funding decisions on how they may affect athletic programs ... Someone posted a story in FB how universities don't get the return on the money that they put into sports. It was also a small comparison of how much they spent in athletics as opposed to academics. I'll find it & hopefully post. I'm guessing the percentage of athletics who go in to play professionally is very small. Football is in all of our faces it seems so it seems like a lot do.
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Post by gypsymama on Apr 15, 2016 10:54:42 GMT
wow some of you really know some elite people... i've been a substitute teacher since 2000 and have 4 kids, 2 long graduated, and i know ONE kid going to school on a sports scholarship!!
i personally think if they leave college early (and the above statement that ALL seniors graduate with a degree is just ludicrous), they should have to pay back the money the school invested in them. they are prepped for years to play all the way thru and lead their teams to championships and ticket sales then they bail when something better comes along. johnny manziel i'm looking at you!!
my stepson had his CDL school paid for by a trucking company and he changed jobs about 6 months in and now owes the original company for the cost of his schooling. he agreed to this when he started, so fair game.
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Deleted
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Sept 30, 2024 16:27:08 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2016 11:07:25 GMT
There are several universities that don't offer a scholarship at all in any sport. They have Division 1 sports - the ones that get the most attention in terms of national championships and other TV air time. They have high graduation rates AND do produce professional players. Granted, most of these schools are smaller and/or are Ivy league schools. I see it in hockey. You can play for the NHL at 18. There are many students who are drafted, play a year in college and then leave for the team that drafted them. And there are some that will play all 4 years and then enter the NHL. Michigan Tech does not offer scholarships to their hockey players. They currently have 3 (maybe a few more) former students playing in the NHL. These are kids who have had to fund their own education through academic scholarships, grants, and loans.
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AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
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Jan 4, 2015 1:47:52 GMT
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Post by AnotherPea on Apr 15, 2016 11:10:15 GMT
wow some of you really know some elite people... i've been a substitute teacher since 2000 and have 4 kids, 2 long graduated, and i know ONE kid going to school on a sports scholarship!! i personally think if they leave college early (and the above statement that ALL seniors graduate with a degree is just ludicrous), they should have to pay back the money the school invested in them. they are prepped for years to play all the way thru and lead their teams to championships and ticket sales then they bail when something better comes along. johnny manziel i'm looking at you!! my stepson had his CDL school paid for by a trucking company and he changed jobs about 6 months in and now owes the original company for the cost of his schooling. he agreed to this when he started, so fair game. Do you substitute at high schools? If so, I imagine you know a lot more than you think. Every year at signing day we have at least six kids at the ceremony. Those are just the ones that come. For one of the eight high schools in my district.
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Post by peasapie on Apr 15, 2016 11:36:45 GMT
I do think many go into sports for the scholarship. At least that's true for kids I know
I'm not a fan of universal college. I think too many already go to college and then have useless degrees. I puts just another way to extend childhood. I would support vocational/trade school
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Post by Basket1lady on Apr 15, 2016 11:57:49 GMT
DS played football all through HS. I can absolutely state that most of the boys felt it was there only chance to get into college. Whether it was because of finances or grades. And so many of them were convinced they would play professionally.
Luckily, DS got a ton of academic scholarships and was recruited for his HS engineering experience, not football. When he found out he had enough money, he decided to not even apply to play football. He wanted to focus on his academics. But he wasn't that great--he probably wouldn't have made the starting line. And he didn't want to spend 4 years traveling and giving up activities related to his major to warm a bench. But he was definitely in the minority on his HS team.
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anniebeth24
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Post by anniebeth24 on Apr 15, 2016 12:02:35 GMT
I think college athletics would still thrive, even if college was free.
Only the top few athletes receive scholarships and only at the Division 1 and 2 levels. Thousands of students play sports without any scholarship at the Division 3 level, as those schools are not allowed by NCAA rules to offer athletic scholarships.
My DS is currently searching for a school where he can continue playing soccer because he can't imagine life without it. Scholarships aren't influencing that choice.
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Kerri W
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Post by Kerri W on Apr 15, 2016 12:10:48 GMT
wow some of you really know some elite people... i've been a substitute teacher since 2000 and have 4 kids, 2 long graduated, and i know ONE kid going to school on a sports scholarship!! Not an elite thing at all. Our school is a Title 1 school and the counselors go to great lengths to help all of the kids get scholarships, not just athletes, but we have several kids every year go on to play sports in college to gain scholarships. Both of my DDs were dating boys who went to college on full ride athletic scholarships. That was their plan the entire time they played in middle/high school and they went to great lengths to send videos to scouts, go to showcases/combines, get their coaches involved, etc. I have to agree that I think a lot of athletes play sports in college as a way to pay for it and that if the scholarships weren't there, they wouldn't go to college.
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teddyw
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Post by teddyw on Apr 15, 2016 12:12:44 GMT
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twinsmomfla99
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Post by twinsmomfla99 on Apr 15, 2016 12:15:56 GMT
Isn't the "free college" plan only supposed to be for two years of community college? If so, it would apply to very few athletic programs. Some community colleges have scholarship athletic programs, but most do not, at least not in my experience
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Post by debmast on Apr 15, 2016 12:38:38 GMT
I think college athletics would still thrive, even if college was free. Only the top few athletes receive scholarships and only at the Division 1 and 2 levels. Thousands of students play sports without any scholarship at the Division 3 level, as those schools are not allowed by NCAA rules to offer athletic scholarships. My DS is currently searching for a school where he can continue playing soccer because he can't imagine life without it. Scholarships aren't influencing that choice. This is true. However, Div 3 schools CAN offer athletes academic scholarships (& often do). Of course, the athlete has to have the grades to earn the scholarship. I have a HS Freshman soccer player. She knows she is not a Div 1 soccer player and won't be getting recruited for that. However, she is considering playing Div 2 or 3. She hasn't decided yet, and still has time to decide. Thankfully she is a good student and could get an academic scholarship. I think free education wouldn't end college athletics. BUT ... it might make a difference in *where* those athletes go. If the scholarship isn't necessary for them to go to college, they can go anywhere they want. Sure would change the recruiting system.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Apr 15, 2016 13:20:43 GMT
I would think even if college tuition is free, room and board won't be so colleges would still be able to offer room and board to entice athletes.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Apr 15, 2016 14:02:39 GMT
Some pro sports will not let someone play straight out of high school. As a result, the person would still need to play in college. I hate that athletes get full ride scholarships when they can barely spell their own name and add 2+2. They go to school for free for a couple of years until they can enter the draft, then quit school and never complete their education. At the same time, there are kids who want an education and have to work their butts off to pay their own way through school. When I was in high school many moons ago, I graduated with honors #22 out of 600+ in my graduating class. I took mostly AP classes and I had a high GPA. I wanted to go to college right out of HS but my widowed mom couldn't afford it with two other kids living at home. They wanted her to mortgage the house to fund my education, and that wasn't happening (and I didn't expect her to). I was in one sport, but not good enough for scholarships and the academic scholarships I would have been able to get wouldn't have made a dent in the tuition even for a state school. I didn't go to college until I was 23 and paying for it totally on my own. (And ironically enough, life did a complete U turn and I ended up going to an art school that didn't have ANY sports!) Meanwhile, another kid in my high school class was a star athlete in two sports, and it was common knowledge that at least three schools offered him full ride, four year scholarships to go to college. He didn't go to any of them because he didn't graduate, in part because he was reading at about a third grade level. As a high school senior! Something is seriously wrong with this picture. It has always been my position that college should be about education first and everything else second but that's not the way the world works.
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Post by myshelly on Apr 15, 2016 14:32:11 GMT
I would be fine with that if it were true. I don't believe athletes deserve college scholarships. I don't believe sports and college should be intertwined at all.
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Post by lisae on Apr 15, 2016 14:40:26 GMT
It wouldn't bother me in the slightest if college sports were greatly downplayed. I don't think they should disappear anymore than music, drama or any other extracurricular activity should disappear. The disparity of emphasis on athletics and other talents is absurd and always has been. Someone who can dribble a ball can get far more chances at scholarship funding than someone talented with a brush, pen or their own body for dance or theater.
I don't think athletics will disappear because it is so entwined in our culture. Colleges push their athletic programs to boost their alumni giving even though many of these programs actually operate in the red. City governments think it is essential to have professional sports teams and provide them incentives and facilities often at the expense of far more needed services.
I don't agree with Bernie that we can afford free college for all. I would love it though if there was a way to make colleges give far more academic scholarships than for sports.
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Post by missmiss on Apr 15, 2016 15:22:01 GMT
Sports scholarships are not as prevalent as you think. www.cnbc.com/2014/10/13/think-athletic-scholarships-are-a-holy-grail-think-again.htmlJust 3.3 percent of high school seniors playing men's basketball will have roster positions on NCAA teams as freshmen As well as Plenty of athletes share that experience. In a survey of college athletes by the NCAA asking what students wished they could have changed about their college sports experience, the most common responses were about time. Another NCAA survey found that a typical NCAA athlete in-season spends 39 hours a week on academics—and 33 hours a week on sports. We talk about how kids should get a job to help pay for college. The college is paying them to play a sport just like if the college hired them to work as a RA. The sport is their job for the 4 or 5 years they are at school. If they do not put in the time and keep up their grades their scholarship is pulled and they are done. My son in swimming was a lucky one. Roughly 561 swimming scholarships were available for boys in 2013 and 1,037 for girls, putting the odds of a male high school swimmer receiving a college swimming scholarship at 1 in 48 and the odds for a girl at 1 in 31. More money is given out for academics than sports as well. You just don't hear about it. www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748703824304575435340724917622Research by Mark Kantrowitz, publisher of FinAid.org, shows colleges and universities hand out more than nine times more money in academic merit scholarships than in athletic scholarship—$9.5 billion, compared with $1 billion for athletic scholarships, based on 2007-2008 data, the latest available. Some 16.9% of undergraduate students in bachelor's degree programs received academic merit scholarships and grants, compared with only 1.4% who received athletic scholarships, he says. These numbers don't include private-sector scholarships from sources other than colleges and universities.
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Post by lynnek on Apr 15, 2016 15:43:07 GMT
I think college athletics would still thrive, even if college was free. Only the top few athletes receive scholarships and only at the Division 1 and 2 levels. Thousands of students play sports without any scholarship at the Division 3 level, as those schools are not allowed by NCAA rules to offer athletic scholarships. My DS is currently searching for a school where he can continue playing soccer because he can't imagine life without it. Scholarships aren't influencing that choice.That is the same with my son. He won't be getting a scholarship, but this is a kid that has played his sport for all of his life almost and it is a passion. He wants to continue to play because he loves it. He goes to a very large high school and there are many kids getting sports scholarships, although not too many to D1 schools. Many of the scholarships his friends are getting really don't make a dent in the tuition. I would say most are continuing to play not because it is paying for their schooling but just because they love playing. If they can get a few thousand bucks to play great, but there is a lot more money they are having to get in other ways. I am interested in this theory of how free college would affect college sports. Thank you for posting, I am going to have to ponder and read more about this.
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Dalai Mama
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Post by Dalai Mama on Apr 15, 2016 15:46:37 GMT
I imagine that if most athletes would play in college without the incentive of scholarships, then colleges wouldn't give out athletic scholarships. Right now, most athletes wouldn't play in college without the incentive of scholarships because, attending college otherwise, is cost prohibitive. You can't play if you can't afford to go.
Do I think that, by removing that impediment, the majority of elite-level college athletes would just give up their sport? No. I think athletes would still be competing for a spot on the team. Look at varsity sports - is the only reason that high school students push themselves to make varsity teams because they think they have a shot at a college scholarship?
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Post by epeanymous on Apr 15, 2016 15:57:22 GMT
I wonder if professional athletics couldn't rely on colleges to subsidize them by training and sorting their athletes for them, if they'd just spend the time and money to do it themselves?
I wonder if these 19-year-olds whose playing makes big money for a lot of people would be paid if professional athletic organizations couldn't rely on colleges to train and sort athletes?
Honestly, if college athletics as we know them disappeared, I wouldn't be sorry, as I am not convinced that there is a reason for them to exist in their current form.
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Post by debmast on Apr 15, 2016 16:03:21 GMT
Not all sports parents are "crazy" and not all athletes are stupid.
I get that some people aren't into sports.
You cannot judge all athletes by a few either.
I have a Freshman DD who is a varsity soccer player. She is also an honor student. I don't consider myself a "soccer crazy parent". Although I love to watch her play. She loves it. Playing makes her happy. Is she going to play on the USWNT? Never. Might she play in a Div 2 or 3 college? Possibly.
In a society where many people are overweight, I'm happy that she wants to play sports. She is very physically fit, and because her body demands so much from her, she is very conscious about eating healthy because if she eats a lot of crap, her body won't perform like she wants it to.
I will say though, our district supports ALL activities, not just sports. The JH I work at has kids on a bus trip to a UIL function right now from band.
I'm not a band parent, but I support them and love that the kids participate.
I think sports, band, debate, etc. are ALL important in HS. The teen years are tough. Everyone needs their "place". Not everyone's place is in fine arts. Sports give some kids that feeling of belonging, just like band gives it to others, and cheerleading gives it to others, and then yet others get that from debate.
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Post by cindyupnorth on Apr 15, 2016 16:07:33 GMT
From what I can understand ALL colleges would not be free. ONLY state run colleges. Private colleges would cont. to be pay, and offer scholarships. It would throw in a whole different way of doing things though.
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amom23
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Post by amom23 on Apr 15, 2016 16:27:22 GMT
Not all sports parents are "crazy" and not all athletes are stupid. I get that some people aren't into sports. You cannot judge all athletes by a few either. I have a Freshman DD who is a varsity soccer player. She is also an honor student. I don't consider myself a "soccer crazy parent". Although I love to watch her play. She loves it. Playing makes her happy. Is she going to play on the USWNT? Never. Might she play in a Div 2 or 3 college? Possibly. In a society where many people are overweight, I'm happy that she wants to play sports. She is very physically fit, and because her body demands so much from her, she is very conscious about eating healthy because if she eats a lot of crap, her body won't perform like she wants it to. I will say though, our district supports ALL activities, not just sports. The JH I work at has kids on a bus trip to a UIL function right now from band. I'm not a band parent, but I support them and love that the kids participate. I think sports, band, debate, etc. are ALL important in HS. The teen years are tough. Everyone needs their "place". Not everyone's place is in fine arts. Sports give some kids that feeling of belonging, just like band gives it to others, and cheerleading gives it to others, and then yet others get that from debate. All of the above except my DS is a Jr. hoping to play college basketball. He loves the sport and works VERY hard at it. DS is also a 4.0 student who is thinking about pre med.
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Post by missmiss on Apr 15, 2016 16:58:10 GMT
Right now, most athletes wouldn't play in college without the incentive of scholarships because, attending college otherwise, is cost prohibitive. You can't play if you can't afford to go.
Do I think that, by removing that impediment, the majority of elite-level college athletes would just give up their sport? No. I think athletes would still be competing for a spot on the team. Look at varsity sports - is the only reason that high school students push themselves to make varsity teams because they think they have a shot at a college scholarship?
Maybe? I know many of the soccer crazy parents in this town start their kids as early as possible so they will rear high school soccer stars. I also know the climate of athletics versus academics in our high school. My son is on the debate team (just won a position to compete at state) and the robotics team, and neither one gets school funding. The sports do, though. They get bus transportation and uniforms and recognition. The debate kids have to drive themselves to competitions. I'm not a super fan of sports culture, so I admit most of my commentary will reflect that. Have you gone to a school board meeting and brought this to their attention. I know at our school board meetings the public is allowed 3 minutes to speak to the board. Those are great programs that the school should fund as well.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Apr 15, 2016 17:41:35 GMT
No I don't agree with your friend. Those who scout for the talent know what it takes to get into the big leagues and it is not all about high school play. Given the recent issues with Jonny Manziel, I think scouts, team owners, coaches and managers are going to start looking harder for the "whole package"---manziel's high school and college talent wasn't enough to keep him playing in the NFL. He lacked the experience and maturity that comes with age to actually perform in the big boys game.
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