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Post by kelbel827 on Apr 16, 2016 0:32:23 GMT
Let me start by saying this is in no way a post to start arguing.
I just happened to see a picture on Facebook of someone being sworn in for a city council member with her hand on the Bible. Made me think, what do you do if you don't believe in religion or a higher being? I don't know what I would do. I am atheist. I would like to think that I would stand up for my non beliefs and say I didn't want to be sworn in on a Bible, but at the same time, if I were accepting a public position, would I just keep my mouth shut and not cause trouble? Does that make my swearing in non valid by me placing my hand on a Bible? Same thing with testifying in court, although my experience is limited to TV court.
So tell me your thoughts. (I'm incredibly bored this Friday night, can you tell?)
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charlatan
Full Member
Posts: 319
Feb 7, 2015 3:53:07 GMT
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Post by charlatan on Apr 16, 2016 0:58:54 GMT
In my state you can choose to affirm rather than swear on a bible.
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Post by hop2 on Apr 16, 2016 1:02:22 GMT
If you ( General you ) are an atheist then what does it matter what book it is? Might as well be the dictionary. Lol or pooh bear.
What matters, ( hopefully ) is the oath being taken. THAT ought to mean something to the person taking it.
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Post by scrapqueen01 on Apr 16, 2016 1:05:12 GMT
When I did jury duty several years ago I noticed people who were testifying only raised their hand and were asked if they swore or affirmed to tell the truth. I would think something like that would be sufficient.
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charlatan
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Feb 7, 2015 3:53:07 GMT
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Post by charlatan on Apr 16, 2016 1:07:27 GMT
I think it's important for people who don't wish to include a religious reference or swear on a bible to be comfortable saying so and not pressured to just go along with the flow or do it because of tradition or whatever. Just because it won't mean anything to an atheist doesn't mean they should have to use the trappings of something they don't believe in, be it a bible or a dictionary or a pooh bear book.
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Post by kelbel827 on Apr 16, 2016 1:15:55 GMT
So far, all answers I like. It's really just nothing I've ever stopped to think about. I have no desire to ever be in public office. Just made me start thinking.
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Post by hop2 on Apr 16, 2016 1:21:28 GMT
I think it's important for people who don't wish to include a religious reference or swear on a bible to be comfortable saying so and not pressured to just go along with the flow or do it because of tradition or whatever. Just because it won't mean anything to an atheist doesn't mean they should have to use the trappings of something they don't believe in, be it a bible or a dictionary or a pooh bear book. i agree with you, I don't think I articulated it thoroughly. The oath should be what matters. ( and hopefully upholding it! ) |
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Post by lucyg on Apr 16, 2016 1:25:59 GMT
I don't think they can legally require you to swear on the Bible. Not saying they wouldn't try in some states or localities.
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perumbula
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,439 
Location: Idaho
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Post by perumbula on Apr 16, 2016 1:38:15 GMT
Most places have already encountered this and have contingencies in place for people who are not Christian. It's not only atheists who need an alternative, all the other religions do as well.
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Post by AussieMeg on Apr 16, 2016 2:12:26 GMT
In court here you can choose to make an affirmation rather than taking an oath. It holds the same weight as an oath on the bible. You can also swear on any religious book relevant to your particular religion. I think it's important for people who don't wish to include a religious reference or swear on a bible to be comfortable saying so and not pressured to just go along with the flow or do it because of tradition or whatever. Just because it won't mean anything to an atheist doesn't mean they should have to use the trappings of something they don't believe in, be it a bible or a dictionary or a pooh bear book. Exactly. I would not swear an oath on the bible just to go with the flow. |
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Mystie
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,300
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Post by Mystie on Apr 16, 2016 2:22:57 GMT
There are also some Christians who choose to affirm rather than swear on a Bible. I know of some Mennonites who have done this. Mennonites are traditionally leery of swearing oaths.
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Post by anniefb on Apr 16, 2016 2:32:38 GMT
In court here you can choose to make an affirmation rather than taking an oath. It holds the same weight as an oath on the bible. You can also swear on any religious book relevant to your particular religion. I think it's important for people who don't wish to include a religious reference or swear on a bible to be comfortable saying so and not pressured to just go along with the flow or do it because of tradition or whatever. Just because it won't mean anything to an atheist doesn't mean they should have to use the trappings of something they don't believe in, be it a bible or a dictionary or a pooh bear book. Exactly. I would not swear an oath on the bible just to go with the flow. Same situation in New Zealand. |
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Deleted
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Sept 30, 2024 14:29:37 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2016 2:34:41 GMT
Some Christians have difficulty swearing on a Bible. From the same Bible being sworn on comes the injunction of Christ to not swear or pledge on anything.
Matthew 5:33 “Again you have heard that it was said to those who lived long ago: Don’t make a false solemn pledge, but you should follow through on what you have pledged to the Lord.[d] 34 But I say to you that you must not pledge at all. You must not pledge by heaven, because it’s God’s throne. 35 You must not pledge by the earth, because it’s God’s footstool. You must not pledge by Jerusalem, because it’s the city of the great king. 36 And you must not pledge by your head, because you can’t turn one hair white or black. 37 Let your yes mean yes, and your no mean no. Anything more than this comes from the evil one. (Common English Bible)
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Post by miominmio on Apr 16, 2016 6:28:41 GMT
In court here you can choose to make an affirmation rather than taking an oath. It holds the same weight as an oath on the bible. You can also swear on any religious book relevant to your particular religion. Exactly. I would not swear an oath on the bible just to go with the flow. Same situation in New Zealand. In Norway we don't swear on any religious book. And btw, not all religions have religious books... |
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Post by Delta Dawn on Apr 16, 2016 7:57:30 GMT
I won't swear in on a Bible. I would on a Qu'ran or just an oath. I took an oath years ago when I joined the public service and it was just a hand gesture.
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Post by pb on Apr 16, 2016 14:39:18 GMT
My mother was sworn into an office in 1983 and no bible was used. She isn't an atheist but she is also not religious. She doesn't remember any bible being discussed.
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georgiapea
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,846
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Post by georgiapea on Apr 16, 2016 15:57:05 GMT
I'm non Christian and was sworn into my state office using a bible. My photo appeared in our local paper that way. The bible is just a book. I felt no different 'swearing' on the bible than if it had been a dictionary. Little rituals get established and nobody replaces them with something better. When taking an oath of office or for some other purpose, a bible swearing ceremony is held, it is expected that the person being sworn in, etc. will reflect on the importance of what they will be doing. If a non christian is too gung ho about the bible not reflecting their 'values' I feel they might be to radical to do an appropriate job
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charlatan
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Feb 7, 2015 3:53:07 GMT
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Post by charlatan on Apr 16, 2016 16:32:56 GMT
That sounds like you're saying that people should never speak up about something they do believe in, or make it clear that they don't agree with something that everyone assumes they do, for fear they might be perceived as too radical. Let me know if I've misunderstood.
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Post by Zee on Apr 16, 2016 17:08:52 GMT
Swearing on a bible means no more to me than swearing on a dictionary. It wouldn't bother me in the least, but I do think it's outmoded and outdated and should probably be abandoned in favor of a simple oath.
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