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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Apr 22, 2016 21:22:45 GMT
Why are you comparing your DD's turn about and success to that mean girls? Stop it!!!
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Post by crazy4scraps on Apr 22, 2016 21:58:38 GMT
The teachers don't see it because they don't WANT to see it. It's easy for them to buy into what this girl is selling, so they do. This isn't always the case. The teachers are looking at what this child is doing in class. They may have no idea of what she is doing to the OP's DD or they might see a very different side to it. We had a girl in class a few years ago that seriously scared me. Her mom would call the school all the time to complain about the other kids being mean to her daughter and bullying her. This girl was literally the MEANEST girl I have ever seen. She would call her classmates fat, and the "r" word, and tell them how ugly they were. When she was called out on it, she insisted that it wasn't bullying if it was true. Her parents never believed any of it. The kids they accused of being bullies were usually the targets of their daughter from everything we witnessed. And to clarify, I am not in any way suggesting that is what is happening with OP's DD. I just wanted to point out that teachers aren't always clueless. They just experience a different side of things on occasion. No, the teachers / coaches are not *always* clueless. The thing is, teachers aren't everywhere and they don't see and hear everything that goes on especially in the hallways at passing time, in the locker rooms, on the school bus, etc. In my case, I was bullied on the playground where it was very easy for someone to be singled out and targeted. These mean kids are SMART and they know how to do what they do and not get caught, and they know how to manipulate the adults around them into believing they're perfect little angels. And if the other kids who do see and hear it are too scared to say anything or if they just want to stay out of it so they don't get a target on their own back, nothing ever changes. |
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Country Ham
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,314
Jun 25, 2014 19:32:08 GMT
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Post by Country Ham on Apr 22, 2016 22:23:20 GMT
Not sure if you are a believer or not. I have to frequent this passage with my kids a lot when they feel beaten down by similar things.
Love Your Enemies
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?
Even God doesn't say "Mean girls don't win". Sometimes they do. It's a lesson in learning how to handle it. It's hard when they are sad because they think something wasn't fair, but life isn't fair. It kind of sounds like she made a sort of peace with this girl in that they run in different circles and you even posted that the girls no longer say mean things to her. Is the school really small? Is there anyway she can stop focusing on this girl and her achievements?
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on Apr 23, 2016 12:17:58 GMT
I think your original premise is flawed: mean people do win, all the time. And it sucks. But nice people can win too -- and have good relationships and self-esteem too! Absolutely... you get to have a fabulous life.. and be nice!!! That's winning!! |
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Post by trixiecat on Apr 23, 2016 13:20:56 GMT
I have another twist though, and wondered how you accept this. What if a girl is on a sports team (going into high school level) and she is not a team player and also has slightly bullied another player and got caught. Her coaches made her apologize for bullying incident (and it stops) but girl continues to play for herself with no repercussions because the high school coaches will need her in the future due to her talent. On top of this, the girl is playing on a religious team that the rules say she has to lead this religion's lifestyle or she should forfeit her spot to someone else. The girl is technically this religion through grandparents, but her house does not practice any religion. As a result, I have seen girls quit this team and cry because of no playing time, partly due to this girl getting all of the playing time. How do you accept and explain this to your daughter, except to tell her the truth, that her parents aren't being honest and the coaches want to win and look the other way. But she has to sit there and accept all of this, no matter how unfair it may be.
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Post by Karmady on Apr 23, 2016 13:56:34 GMT
I would say two things. 1. Mean girls don't win in the long run. It can seem like they do.. but they don't. Just wait. 2. You and your daughter need to not be invested in her outcomes. The recognition that someone else gets their outcomes, have nothing to do with you or your daughter. Let that shit go! Focus on her goals and accomplishments. Teach your daughter not to compare herself, or care what others do or think. She'll be much better for it.This is key. Teach your dd to put her blinders on and focus on herself and her own successes. There is room at the top for everyone and unfortunately, there will be "successful" jerks. Get her to focus on her own path. She'll be much happier. |
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Post by Karmady on Apr 23, 2016 14:04:31 GMT
I have another twist though, and wondered how you accept this. What if a girl is on a sports team (going into high school level) and she is not a team player and also has slightly bullied another player and got caught. Her coaches made her apologize for bullying incident (and it stops) but girl continues to play for herself with no repercussions because the high school coaches will need her in the future due to her talent. On top of this, the girl is playing on a religious team that the rules say she has to lead this religion's lifestyle or she should forfeit her spot to someone else. The girl is technically this religion through grandparents, but her house does not practice any religion. As a result, I have seen girls quit this team and cry because of no playing time, partly due to this girl getting all of the playing time. How do you accept and explain this to your daughter, except to tell her the truth, that her parents aren't being honest and the coaches want to win and look the other way. But she has to sit there and accept all of this, no matter how unfair it may be. You have to tell her that life isn't fair. No one owes her anything. You don't know what goes on in someone else's home. I don't think anyone should be judged based on how religious you think they may or may not be. Tell dd that she needs to work hard and be nice. We really need to build resiliency in kids. It doesn't matter how smart or talented they are, they will be disappointed by the decisions of others. Your dd has he opportunity to try out for another team at another school or in a rep program. She will be disappointed by life, success is the ability to recover and move on. |
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Post by peasapie on Apr 23, 2016 14:38:51 GMT
I remember in high school, my daughter paid attention to all this stuff, while my son didn't. Maybe it's the difference between boys and girls, or maybe just their own personalities, but I can say for sure he was the happier of the two in those years. I think it's best to encourage our kids to do their best, enjoy life, and not worry about anyone else. Whatever that other girll does or doesn't do is irrelevant to your daughter's life.
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Post by peasapie on Apr 23, 2016 14:43:31 GMT
I have another twist though, and wondered how you accept this. What if a girl is on a sports team (going into high school level) and she is not a team player and also has slightly bullied another player and got caught. Her coaches made her apologize for bullying incident (and it stops) but girl continues to play for herself with no repercussions because the high school coaches will need her in the future due to her talent. On top of this, the girl is playing on a religious team that the rules say she has to lead this religion's lifestyle or she should forfeit her spot to someone else. The girl is technically this religion through grandparents, but her house does not practice any religion. As a result, I have seen girls quit this team and cry because of no playing time, partly due to this girl getting all of the playing time. How do you accept and explain this to your daughter, except to tell her the truth, that her parents aren't being honest and the coaches want to win and look the other way. But she has to sit there and accept all of this, no matter how unfair it may be. Well, having taught in a religious school, I'd say they can be more competitive than public schools. As in real life, athletes get away with a lot because schools like teams that win. It would be nice if that wasn't the main idea, but usually it is. This is why my daughter opted for theater instead. |
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Post by trixiecat on Apr 23, 2016 14:48:25 GMT
Great words and advice Karmady. Thanks.
No choice for other teams unless we move to a different school district - that isn't happening.
Regarding the religious team, you are required to sign paperwork saying you are living a Jewish lifestyle in order to be on this team, and if you are not, then leave so other girls who want to be on this team can be part of it. If you are found "out", then you are stripped of all medals you have earned. It is an honor to be chosen for these teams. I think the choice in this scenario is we do not have to be on this team in the future if we are unhappy with other families not following the rules.
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Post by molove on Apr 23, 2016 16:01:03 GMT
Thank God it's just high school and it ends soon enough. Head up though---it's the same in college and career. It's just life. And you got the memo---it is not fair.
It is also not for the faint of heart so modeling and teaching resilience and grace is what's key.
You're giving this girl a lot more brain space and energy than she is giving you. Focus on you and yours, it's all going to be fine.
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marimoose
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,282 
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Post by marimoose on Apr 23, 2016 16:22:39 GMT
I could have written this post myself a few years ago. The only thing different is that my daughter did not change sports as that was not negotiable for her. She simply worked harder on that one to be the best that she could be and try to be a leader. The mean girls continued and sadly, the coach were oblivious, at least a little as they were aware. They told my daughter that she should continue to be a leader and to go out of her way to be even nicer to help turn the mean girls attitude around. Good plan, not. The meanest of the girls cheated, lied, smoked pot, drank and at every turn was rewarded. She was also a dumb girl, literally. I feel bad for her but it was so hadr to see how she could manipulate teachers and students alike. Anyhow, your post totally echoes my lief a few short years ago.
My daughter graduated HS and what didn't kill her, made her stronger. She is well rounded, very caring and in some ways, those awful girls may have did her a favor by gifting her the life experiences that have shaped her into who she is now. Things always work out. Your daughter is lucky to have you in her corner. In my case, it has made our bond even stronger. As for the mean girls, they are struggling in the real world that seems to see them for who they are, especially the meanest one who seemed to catch all the breaks. Not so much now. I hate to say it but karma is a bitch that eventually catches up.
Hang in there. This will all be in the past sooner than it feels and your daughter will be even stronger.
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Post by Zee on Apr 23, 2016 16:27:50 GMT
Life isn't fair. Focus on your own self, you do you and don't worry about what everyone else is getting/winning/doing or you're going to be miserable. That's what she should learn from this.
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Country Ham
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,314
Jun 25, 2014 19:32:08 GMT
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Post by Country Ham on Apr 23, 2016 18:14:15 GMT
I have another twist though, and wondered how you accept this. What if a girl is on a sports team (going into high school level) and she is not a team player and also has slightly bullied another player and got caught. Her coaches made her apologize for bullying incident (and it stops) but girl continues to play for herself with no repercussions because the high school coaches will need her in the future due to her talent. On top of this, the girl is playing on a religious team that the rules say she has to lead this religion's lifestyle or she should forfeit her spot to someone else. The girl is technically this religion through grandparents, but her house does not practice any religion. As a result, I have seen girls quit this team and cry because of no playing time, partly due to this girl getting all of the playing time. How do you accept and explain this to your daughter, except to tell her the truth, that her parents aren't being honest and the coaches want to win and look the other way. But she has to sit there and accept all of this, no matter how unfair it may be. You always a have a choice. How much is it worth it to challenge the status quo? Other then "playing for herself" the episode of slight bullying seems to have been dealt with and is stopped. That seems like an awesome outcome in a bullying situation. What do you mean by playing for herself vs being a team player. I am not sure what sport this is. Basketball I guess it would be a ball hog? Refusing to pass to certain players? That happens A LOT. She doesn't have to sit there and take it, but she can challenge the coaches. She can challenge the school but better be able to back it up and be willing to stand with her head held high against whatever the team, the player and the school comes back with. Even the parents, cause as unfair as it might be when push comes to shove folks want to back a winning team. What exactly does it mean to "Lead this religion's lifesyle"? What do the rules mean? Go to church every week, participate monthly? What about the school's devotional time? Is that considered enough? Youth activities? Why would the responsibility be on the girl to forfeit her spot (sorry coach I missed church Sunday so i can't play). What team could operate that way? I think I went off rambling.... ETA: our highschool basketball team did have behavior clauses. Our starting center had to sit out a whole tournament cause she got caught smoking. |
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Post by nurseypants on Apr 23, 2016 18:28:04 GMT
I have another twist though, and wondered how you accept this. What if a girl is on a sports team (going into high school level) and she is not a team player and also has slightly bullied another player and got caught. Her coaches made her apologize for bullying incident (and it stops) but girl continues to play for herself with no repercussions because the high school coaches will need her in the future due to her talent. On top of this, the girl is playing on a religious team that the rules say she has to lead this religion's lifestyle or she should forfeit her spot to someone else. The girl is technically this religion through grandparents, but her house does not practice any religion. As a result, I have seen girls quit this team and cry because of no playing time, partly due to this girl getting all of the playing time. How do you accept and explain this to your daughter, except to tell her the truth, that her parents aren't being honest and the coaches want to win and look the other way. But she has to sit there and accept all of this, no matter how unfair it may be. It just sounds like you want validation for your anger and bitterness. And you remind me of the Texas Cheerleader Mom. If you want to move on, you will. You should. |
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Sept 30, 2024 0:25:50 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2016 18:41:05 GMT
I have another twist though, and wondered how you accept this. What if a girl is on a sports team (going into high school level) and she is not a team player and also has slightly bullied another player and got caught. Her coaches made her apologize for bullying incident (and it stops) but girl continues to play for herself with no repercussions because the high school coaches will need her in the future due to her talent. On top of this, the girl is playing on a religious team that the rules say she has to lead this religion's lifestyle or she should forfeit her spot to someone else. The girl is technically this religion through grandparents, but her house does not practice any religion. As a result, I have seen girls quit this team and cry because of no playing time, partly due to this girl getting all of the playing time. How do you accept and explain this to your daughter, except to tell her the truth, that her parents aren't being honest and the coaches want to win and look the other way. But she has to sit there and accept all of this, no matter how unfair it may be. What does it mean to "lead a religious lifestyle"? Have you heard the coaches say they look the other way? That the parents aren't being honest, coaches want to win? Or is that your take on the situation? Reality is you don't really KNOW what the facts are. It may mean the grandparents want the girl in this school for the influence the faculty and other families to help her be better grounded in whatever faith. Is your religion all about fairness as the guiding principle or is there any concept of grace, tolerance, personal growth? Instead of teaching your child an egotistical self pity, explain that life isn't always fair and we NEVER know what is really going on with other people. If your daughters game skills are good enough she will also get the playing time. A team sport isn't just played by one person. It is possible this one girl's skills really are above the other girls. |
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Deleted
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Sept 30, 2024 0:25:50 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2016 18:51:36 GMT
And I thought I had finally taught DD that she could avoid "mean girls" because "mean girls never win." Where did you come up with the idea mean girls never win? Of course they do. And here is a bit on why the succeed, and will succeed later in life. www.wsj.com/articles/what-corporate-climbers-can-teach-us-1404862389I'm not saying raise kids who are manipulative, nacisistic, etc but also don't totally kill those personality traits either. They do have a place in life whether they are good or bad depends on how YOU judge them. You may call someone vain. I may see them as confident. |
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Post by anniefb on Apr 23, 2016 18:55:29 GMT
Life isn't fair and jerks still win at things. Be happy that although she isn't getting the same opportunities as the mean girl, you don't have a jerk for a daughter. And 20 years down the road no know will remember who got what prize in school but they will remember if someone was nice or an asshole.  |
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on Apr 23, 2016 20:14:28 GMT
I have another twist though, and wondered how you accept this. What if a girl is on a sports team (going into high school level) and she is not a team player and also has slightly bullied another player and got caught. Her coaches made her apologize for bullying incident (and it stops) but girl continues to play for herself with no repercussions because the high school coaches will need her in the future due to her talent. On top of this, the girl is playing on a religious team that the rules say she has to lead this religion's lifestyle or she should forfeit her spot to someone else. The girl is technically this religion through grandparents, but her house does not practice any religion. As a result, I have seen girls quit this team and cry because of no playing time, partly due to this girl getting all of the playing time. How do you accept and explain this to your daughter, except to tell her the truth, that her parents aren't being honest and the coaches want to win and look the other way. But she has to sit there and accept all of this, no matter how unfair it may be. Again, I would say you are too invested in her outcomes. Focus on your daughter, and do not judge someone else's religion, or faith. You have no idea what goes on in her home or her heart. Comparing yourself to others is the biggest waste of time. Your life will constantly seem "unfair" as compared to some and "blessed" as compared to others. Your life, your journey. Don't worry about others. Just focus on being the best and most kind "you" you can be the rest will take care of itself. |
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Post by Really Red on Apr 23, 2016 20:49:47 GMT
In my girls' HS, there was a very smart, very gifted (athletically and musically) and more or less kind girl (she was mostly kind, I think). It turns out that she cheated on many of her AP/SAT/ACT tests. She was caught 5 times. FIVE. She is the daughter of two immigrants and the school didn't dare prosecute. They took away her valedictorianship (?!), so she didn't speak at graduation, but she still graduated no. 1 in the class with a full ride to an Ivy. She also got a great majority of the monetary awards given. The ones that are supposed to go directly to the school, but the awards are often written in the name of the student, so she can pocket them. We're talking over $20K annually in addition to her full ride (tuition/room & board). My daughter was in the top 10 of her class and she got a couple of minor awards, but she couldn't compare to this other girl. My daughter had 7 letters and over 100 service hours in her senior year alone. She got into a great school and you know what? She is SOOOOO happy I cannot tell you. She has found girls who are giving and sharing and just wonderful. So it totally sucked when my daughter was in HS. SUCKED. She saw other girls cheat over and over again on exams and papers and get away with it. She was frustrated and upset. She did not imagine college was going to be different. What she has found is the best thing I could ever imagine. My other DD was forced off the volleyball team by the coach who catered to the rich kids' parents because they paid for trips for him. That is something that still hurts me. My DD loved volleyball and she was very, very good. So good that when she played intramurals at her college, they offered her a spot on their school team, which is very good. She refused  because it would take too much of her time. People like your DD's ex-friend will go places, then they'll fall like SOOO many of them do, because their ego is so great. It may not be soon, but it will happen. Your DD will find her place and find her happiness. And she will always knows she does what is right. Sometimes that sucks - often it does - and it sucks most in HS. It will get better and better. I try to think kindly of others. I think maybe this mean girl is so sad and lonely at home and maybe has a horrible home life and her only way of coping is what she's doing. Maybe these accolades will help her in life? IDK, but unfortunately until the schools aren't scared of the parents, this is what is going to happen. I'm sorry!! |
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