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Post by pretzels on May 22, 2016 12:25:34 GMT
UPDATE: Thanks, y'all. Talking about it in terms of bargaining really helped. It's not that I actually take half his retirement, etc., but I go in there with that and go from there. That makes sense. Maybe I end up with the bare minimum, but maybe I end up with something that's more than that, but fair. I get it now.
I took some random vacation days in a couple of weeks, and am going to make an appointment to see a female lawyer then.
I'm kind of overwhelmed with the planning -- I am a planner and cannot just up and leave without having a lot of things in place. I need to stay in our small town because of the kids, but rentals with three bedrooms are few and far between. And how do I do that? I want to have a place to go when I tell him, because he will likely ask me to leave immediately. And he won't let me take the kids. It could be ugly and I want to mitigate that as much as possible. I am going this week to get a post office box so I can have mail sent there. I am also going to set up a separate checking account. My goal is to not to celebrate another wedding anniversary with him. Our anniversary is in March. I know that's a long way away, but just taking these steps so far is huge.
Thanks for all the advice.
---
I am in the planning stages of filing for a divorce. I had some questions about what I can and cannot do, plus I wanted to start getting a feel for lawyers, so I went on a consultation on Friday.
It was awful.
My husband is emotionally abusive. I've suffered for about 12 or so years with this, and I know him. I have decided that in order to get what I want: Out of the marriage and with joint custody for our two children, I am willing to forego just about everything. I only want out of the marriage, my grandmother's dining room table, the car put into my name so I can finish paying for it, my personal items, and for us to share expenses associated with our children. My husband is a very punitive man, and I know if I went in asking for half of his retirement or alimony or my share of the house, he would turn this into a very long, very expensive custody battle (our kids are teen-agers).
I have a good job and make enough money to support myself and my children on my own. I'm vested in my prior two jobs and have good retirement at this one. That is why I'm finally able to do this. The lawyer pretty much absolutely refused, and was not nice about it.
My friends say I'm not going to find a lawyer to agree to what I want. I'm going to call another one on Monday to set up another consultation, but am I just screwed? My other option is to hope my husband is reasonable about it -- i.e., realizes that I could take half of everything -- and we can sit down and write out our agreement ourselves and just involve a lawyer when we're ready to file. I'm not sure how he's going to take this. He's pretty miserable, too, but I think is resigned to live like this until our kids are out of the house (our youngest is 14). I don't want to do that.
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Post by mikklynn on May 22, 2016 12:33:44 GMT
I have no advice regarding legal matters, but I do want to say I am sorry you are living in this situation. I think you should get out. You are not modeling a healthy relationship for your children. It's not good for them, as you know. ETA - And it's definitely not good for YOU.
Hugs and I hope you find a way to settle amicably.
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Post by bigbundt on May 22, 2016 12:57:13 GMT
I think most lawyers would want to ask for way more in the hopes of just getting what their client wants. It's part of negotiating, you ask for way more and then go back and forth and then "generously" have a final low ball offer (which is what you really want). You start with your absolute minimum and your opponent will want to slash that in half even if it is reasonable from the beginning. If your ex is abusive he probably won't agree to anything unless he feels he "screwed" you so again, starting with your absolute minimum isn't a good tactic. Go visit more lawyers if you can. You will find one that is a better fit. I'm sorry you are going through this.  |
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Post by scraphop on May 22, 2016 12:59:06 GMT
I'm sorry you are going through this and I completely understand why you only want the things you have mentioned. At the end of the day you need a lawyer that will do what you want--you are the client. They can advise what you should be asking for but agree to do what you want.
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Post by quinmm14 on May 22, 2016 13:09:43 GMT
I'm sorry you have to deal with this. When I divorced (I filed), my ex asked for half of my retirement. So just be prepared that may happen if your dh does want to screw you over.
Good luck to you.
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Post by peace on May 22, 2016 13:16:03 GMT
I divorced a similar man. I ended up with (second attorney) with a mediation specialist. She got me out. The other attorneys (including the first one) simply want to run up the clock and drag your divorce up to the maximum time permitted by your county. I would still recommend going a little higher with your first offer because they always counter. Good luck.
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Post by bazinga on May 22, 2016 13:18:28 GMT
I'm so sorry that you are going through this. I would listen to the attorney. From what I know going through my own divorce, joint custody and half of everything is pretty standard in a divorce. Unless he has a really good reason, or the children really don't want to be with you at all, an attorney will probably tell him that fighting you will only piss the judge off.
Getting out of an abusive situation takes a lot of courage. I know from experience how hard and scary it can be. But when you and your children live in a home without abuse and you experience true peace, love, and physical/mental/emotional safety, it is so worth it.
Good luck
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Post by hop2 on May 22, 2016 13:22:32 GMT
Why did the lawyer refuse?
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TankTop
Pearl Clutcher
Refupea #1,871
Posts: 4,795
Location: On the couch...
Jun 28, 2014 1:52:46 GMT
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Post by TankTop on May 22, 2016 13:23:15 GMT
It is possible. You just need the right lawyer.
Best of luck to you!
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Post by mcscrapper on May 22, 2016 13:31:36 GMT
So sorry you are going through this. It is never easy.
I was in a similar situation with the lawyer part. A lawyer will want you to go for more so that you have some negotiating room. He/she will will fight to keep the things that are "must haves" for you but he has to have some other things to give. Mine told me to ask for the moon and then give up all the stuff that didn't really matter to me.
Best of luck to you!
meredith
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Post by chirpingcricket on May 22, 2016 13:35:20 GMT
I work for a divorce attorney. Every state's laws are different, and I don't know where you live, but your lawyer should be willing to get you what you want out of the divorce. In my state, the statutory presumption after a marriage of long duration is a 50/50 division of assets -- marital estate, bank accounts, assets, and retirement accounts. However, we have had a few cases where our client was just so happy to be getting out of the divorce, they got out with less than half. It's my boss's job to ultimately represent his client's wishes, not his own. Every time this has happened, he has *strongly* advised against anything less than 50%; he has written up official memorandae noting his advice and his client's disagreement, and he has covered his butt to ensure that in five years' time, that client doesn't come back and accuse him of getting out too easily.
Find the attorney who will represent *your* interests. They do exist.
I do agree with the Pea who said negotiating tactics are usually necessary. They really are. Ask for the moon, so you have plenty of room to settle for the car title.
Also, I take umbrage at the suggestion that all lawyers are just trying to run up the hours. The attorneys at my firm do everything they can NOT to run up tons of billable hours. We cannot help it if opposing counsel is a resistant idiot or if they're just inexperienced and do things *wrong*, and that can run up hours in and of itself. But we are NOT trying to bilk our clients out of money.
That said, I am very glad I do not need an attorney. They're expensive. I wish you much luck. Divorce is stressful, but things do get better on the other side.
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sweetpeasmom
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,607 
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Post by sweetpeasmom on May 22, 2016 13:47:01 GMT
I am sorry you are going through this. I agree with the others that are saying shoot for the moon and settle for less. I have had several friends recently wanting to just get it over with and wanted out. They didn't want to ask for anything. Now they are regretting that.
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momto4kiddos
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,153
Jun 26, 2014 11:45:15 GMT
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Post by momto4kiddos on May 22, 2016 14:12:39 GMT
So sorry you are going through this. It is never easy. I was in a similar situation with the lawyer part. A lawyer will want you to go for more so that you have some negotiating room. He/she will will fight to keep the things that are "must haves" for you but he has to have some other things to give. Mine told me to ask for the moon and then give up all the stuff that didn't really matter to me. Best of luck to you! meredith I was wondering if this was why the lawyer you saw refused....if your husband is emotionally abusive i'd think he's unlikely to say your plan is fine and agree to it, even though you want very little. My guess is that you'll need to "want" more in order to negotiate to get what you really want. Is he going to go after your retirement? Is he going to want your table just because you want it? You'd think if you were offering him a good deal that he'd take it, but if he's abusive his goal might be to abuse you a little more just because he can! Good luck, i'm sure it's good to get the advice of a couple lawyers so you know where you stand. Hope things go as smoothly as possible for you. ((HUGS)) |
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Post by doxiesx3 on May 22, 2016 14:15:29 GMT
Have you thought about asking him what he was willing to do? When my dh and I were divorcing, I simply asked him what he was willing to do (child support, alimony, children expenses, medical, mortgage, etc)and it was much more than what I wanted/needed. He was happy as he felt he was being fair and getting his way, I was happy as it was much more than what I was going to ask for, so there was no fighting, no negotiating...
eta-my dh and I parted as friends, no abuse or trauma. Good luck!
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Loydene
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,639
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
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Post by Loydene on May 22, 2016 14:23:34 GMT
Yeah for chirpingcricket. Ditto what she said, including the umbrage!
A couple of things that you have to keep in mind -- in addition to not "tying your attorneys hand while negotiating" is that 1) you are planning for the rest of your life; 2) your attorney knows local counsel and local judges - and because of that pretty much knows how your situation is going to end up.
Most attorneys don't want to spend any more time on your case than is necessary -- because, no offense, your situation is just not that interesting -- they've seen it before and have the T-shirt. They want to get you out with what you are entitled to from that union as efficiently as possible.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Jun 23, 2024 18:45:46 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2016 15:16:19 GMT
I am in the planning stages of filing for a divorce. I had some questions about what I can and cannot do, plus I wanted to start getting a feel for lawyers, so I went on a consultation on Friday. It was awful. My husband is emotionally abusive. I've suffered for about 12 or so years with this, and I know him. I have decided that in order to get what I want: Out of the marriage and with joint custody for our two children, I am willing to forego just about everything. I only want out of the marriage, my grandmother's dining room table, the car put into my name so I can finish paying for it, my personal items, and for us to share expenses associated with our children. My husband is a very punitive man, and I know if I went in asking for half of his retirement or alimony or my share of the house, he would turn this into a very long, very expensive custody battle (our kids are teen-agers). I have a good job and make enough money to support myself and my children on my own. I'm vested in my prior two jobs and have good retirement at this one. That is why I'm finally able to do this. The lawyer pretty much absolutely refused, and was not nice about it. My friends say I'm not going to find a lawyer to agree to what I want. I'm going to call another one on Monday to set up another consultation, but am I just screwed? My other option is to hope my husband is reasonable about it -- i.e., realizes that I could take half of everything -- and we can sit down and write out our agreement ourselves and just involve a lawyer when we're ready to file. I'm not sure how he's going to take this. He's pretty miserable, too, but I think is resigned to live like this until our kids are out of the house (our youngest is 14). I don't want to do that. Chances are, you'll have a difficult time finding a lawyer who is willing to start negotiations at your "end point" of what you want. First, by starting where you want to end up you don't leave your attorney any negotiating room and you are apt to end up with even less. Second, when you are out of the abuse, at some point in the future you may try to come back on your lawyer that he didn't do a good job of representing your interests. Keep in mind if your ex was a reasonable person you probably wouldn't be needing a divorce. Shoot for all the law allows, know what your personal bottom line is. Asking for it all, or asking for nothing; it is going to take the same amount of time. Your ex is going to challenge the custody. Unless you are willing to walk away from the kids, the car and the table you have a fight on your hands. So might as well start high. |
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Post by cindyupnorth on May 22, 2016 15:55:04 GMT
I agree with other's are saying above. Your lawyer is there to represent you. IF he feels he can't do you justice, why would he do it? You don't want a lawyer that just settles.
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Post by mlynn on May 22, 2016 15:58:40 GMT
1. Take everything you want when you leave the home. If you are serving him or telling him before you leave, make sure that table is already removed and in a safe and secure location. He is punitive and will probably damage it out of spite. He will want to hurt you and that is a good way to do it. Be prepared to NEVER see anything left behind again. Not Grandma's table, not baby pics of the kids or mementos of your parents. Not your wedding album. Not a pair of undies. NOTHING.
2. Ask for what you are entitled to. Even if you are awarded things, you may not be able to collect. My mother had 6 kids between the ages of 1 and 12 when my parents split. She received two child support payments...one of which was when only one of us was a minor.
You are not only securing your own future, but the futures of your children. He may be ordered to help pay for the educations of your children. However, he may not follow through. By getting what you are entitled to, you may enable yourself to provide what he is ordered to provide but does not.
Your husband is abusive and punitive. Regardless of what you ask for, even if it is basically nothing, he will continue to be abusive and punitive. He will not sit back and say "she is being so nice and reasonable and I am getting a good deal. I will just go ahead and be nice." He will destroy things you leave behind. He will rake your reputation over the coals with everyone you know, including your children. He may try to harm you. By getting more resources, you may be more prepared to live someplace that you are more protected and/or make changes to your home that provide more protection for you and your children.
Make an exit plan. Talk to people at battered women's shelters about what needs to be done. They are accustomed to dealing with these kinds of people in these kinds of situations. You do not have to be in a shelter to benefit from the resources offered. I went to counseling from battered women services without being in a shelter. You do not have to reinvent the wheel and start from scratch. Prepare yourself mentally and emotionally to weather this storm as best as you can (and be prepared to help your children as well.)
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~Lauren~
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,876
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Post by ~Lauren~ on May 22, 2016 16:03:40 GMT
I have been a divorce lawyer for over 30 years. While I would not refuse to do as you ask, I would strongly counsel you against your position. You do not have to give up everything in order to get out of your marriage. As someone else said, you need to look to the distant future as well as the immediately future. Chances are very great that once you are not emotional, you will not want to give up everything. In fact, I usually tell people like you "take what you're entitled to. In two years, if you still want to give him everything, go right ahead and do it". Needless to say, no one has every turned over their property or money two years after their divorce.
I understand that right now you just want "out". However, your children are entitled to be supported by both of their parents, whether or not you are able to support them yourself. They are entitled to the standard of living that being supported by both of their parents would provide them. If his pension is bigger than yours, you are entitled to be supported in your retirement to the extent of your interest in his pension. If there is equity in the house, you and the children are entitled to that in order to insure the best possible living situation for them following the divorce.
Yes, it might get ugly if you ask for what you're entitled to. But the way you describe your spouse, it's going to get ugly anyway. Do not give away the security of both yourself and your children under some misguided idea that you can 'buy' him into being reasonable or letting you out of the marriage. You can get your divorce AND the assets and support you are entitled to.
If he becomes aggressive, call the police, charge him and have him removed from the home. Or, have the divorce judge remove him from the home.
While I would, if your lawyer, do as you wish ultimately, I would definitely try vigorously to convince you to protect your interests and those of your children. Should you decline, I would probably have you sign a statement to the effect that I had so advised you and that despite my advice you were choosing to forego the assets etc you were entitled to. I know it's a CYA but in situations like yours, it is common to have remorse later for giving up everything.
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Post by mrst on May 22, 2016 16:10:20 GMT
It may well be very different in the UK but ex and I did the whole thing ourselves for 80pounds with no lawyers 'help' . I wanted out then and there, children were older 20 and 15. We agreed it all got the forms from the court and just did it. I had to play hard ball a couple of times but got what I wanted. Even the best lawyers want the whole thing to look fair.....sometimes you don't need fair
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Post by hop2 on May 22, 2016 16:49:23 GMT
Maybe have the assets you don't 'want' into a trust for your kids?
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Post by mcscrapper on May 22, 2016 17:32:53 GMT
I agree with Lauren. She knows her sh!t about divorces.
You've got to protect yourself AND your kids through this. While you may only want the table, he will most likely fight you tooth and nail for that. Also, when you have more to negotiate with, the less you stand to "lose." But let's face it, no one wins in this situation but you certainly don't want not get what you have worked hard for.
m
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Post by workingclassdog on May 22, 2016 17:42:11 GMT
I have been a divorce lawyer for over 30 years. While I would not refuse to do as you ask, I would strongly counsel you against your position. You do not have to give up everything in order to get out of your marriage. As someone else said, you need to look to the distant future as well as the immediately future. Chances are very great that once you are not emotional, you will not want to give up everything. In fact, I usually tell people like you "take what you're entitled to. In two years, if you still want to give him everything, go right ahead and do it". Needless to say, no one has every turned over their property or money two years after their divorce. I understand that right now you just want "out". However, your children are entitled to be supported by both of their parents, whether or not you are able to support them yourself. They are entitled to the standard of living that being supported by both of their parents would provide them. If his pension is bigger than yours, you are entitled to be supported in your retirement to the extent of your interest in his pension. If there is equity in the house, you and the children are entitled to that in order to insure the best possible living situation for them following the divorce. Yes, it might get ugly if you ask for what you're entitled to. But the way you describe your spouse, it's going to get ugly anyway. Do not give away the security of both yourself and your children under some misguided idea that you can 'buy' him into being reasonable or letting you out of the marriage. You can get your divorce AND the assets and support you are entitled to. If he becomes aggressive, call the police, charge him and have him removed from the home. Or, have the divorce judge remove him from the home. While I would, if your lawyer, do as you wish ultimately, I would definitely try vigorously to convince you to protect your interests and those of your children. Should you decline, I would probably have you sign a statement to the effect that I had so advised you and that despite my advice you were choosing to forego the assets etc you were entitled to. I know it's a CYA but in situations like yours, it is common to have remorse later for giving up everything. I work with divorce attorneys all the time.. Lauren is right on. Hang in there and get what you deserve, even if it is just for the kids' sake... Otherwise, instead of attorneys you can just go with a mediator and skip the attorneys.. but usually you both need to be on the same page. |
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Post by anniefb on May 22, 2016 19:47:17 GMT
Basically- what ~Lauren~ said. Listen to her good advice. |
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scrapaddie
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,090
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Post by scrapaddie on May 22, 2016 21:53:13 GMT
Thank goodness we have Lauren. This divorce is not just about you, but also your kids. Be if you don't 'need' child support, bank it for the children ... It will come in handy once they turn 18 or graduate from high for school ( in Ohio a schools support is not required after 18 unless they are still in high school)
Who is going to pay for college.... Health insurance.... Sports, camps, etc.
It sounds like you want to just disappear quietly, but you can't.
Start documenting emotional abuse if you can.... Just in case.
I am sorry. It is not an easy road, but you need to proceed using your head, not your heart or your fear.
{{{ hugs}}}
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stampfox
Shy Member
Posts: 19
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Post by stampfox on May 23, 2016 0:56:08 GMT
If you start at the absolute minimum of what you want, you have no place to move from. Then you will be accused of being uncompromising. As others have said leave room to compromise.
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Post by mom on May 23, 2016 1:41:22 GMT
My only advice is this:
Sometimes the advice we need to take is NOT what we think we need or want to hear. Sometimes others have a better perspective that is valid and worthy of consideration.
Also? Dont sacrifice your future because you want a quick closing to your past. Just because your future looks good and stable now, You have no idea what your future employment, living arrangements, etc will be. To give up anything you are entitled to now would be foolish. If you even don't need the money now, you just might need it in the future and it will be too late.
Listen to the professionals. They know what they are doing.
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Post by Laura in OK on May 23, 2016 1:52:02 GMT
My first marriage was similar to yours. When I finally realized that I wanted out, I said the same type of things. We had both a house & lake property that were equal in value. I just wanted the house, I worked from home, my car, & nothing else. We didn't have children. He, of course, agreed quickly. He owned 2 businesses but I was so beaten down emotionally that I didn't care. Fast forward a few years when I had reclaimed myself, I was so furious at myself for letting him off so easily! You are worth more than you think right now. Fight for what you & your children deserve! You never know what the future will bring.
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Post by Laura in OK on May 23, 2016 1:53:50 GMT
My only advice is this: Sometimes the advice we need to take is NOT what we think we need or want to hear. Sometimes others have a better perspective that is valid and worthy of consideration. Also? Dont sacrifice your future because you want a quick closing to your past. Just because your future looks good and stable now, You have no idea what your future employment, living arrangements, etc will be. To give up anything you are entitled to now would be foolish. If you even don't need the money now, you just might need it in the future and it will be too late. Listen to the professionals. They know what they are doing. We must have been posting at the same time! Please listen to everyone. |
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Post by mcscrapper on May 24, 2016 2:32:30 GMT
If you start at the absolute minimum of what you want, you have no place to move from. Then you will be accused of being uncompromising. As others have said leave room to compromise. Pretty much this. I can just about guarantee you that if you say you just want XYZ, THAT will be the ONE thing he says he has to have. My ex was kind of this way about a few things. I ended up giving into him on a few things to make him think he "won" the battle but in reality the things that I *let* him keep were things I just wanted to make sure stayed with my daughter. My ex was brazen enough to ask for several things that were MY family heirlooms. My great grandmother's rocking chair! He tried to argue that he rocked our daughter to sleep in that thing. My mother nearly ran him over with her car over that. Same with MY family silver and several other things. He was such a turd about some of that stuff. Don't get me started. m |
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My original pea date was November 1999 and my number was 1803
