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Post by freecharlie on Jun 5, 2016 1:09:15 GMT
Yes, and I think it's awesome. would you think it is awesome if they did different religions/denominations at each event, like a rotating schedule?
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Deleted
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Oct 7, 2024 21:31:11 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2016 1:26:58 GMT
Yes, and I think it's awesome. would you think it is awesome if they did different religions/denominations at each event, like a rotating schedule? scrapbug I'd also like to hear your answer to this question.
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melissa
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,912
Jun 25, 2014 20:45:00 GMT
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Post by melissa on Jun 5, 2016 2:11:34 GMT
I grew up in NJ. No prayer in the schools then and there still isn't. I find it difficult to understand how it is appropriate in a school setting. Why does it bother people so much? I understand that there's a separation of church and state in the US but surely a prayer at the beginning of any event, not just schools isn't going to convert anyone to any religion is it? So, if this is a prayer at a public event, how do you possibly chose what religion's prayer to use? I live in a very diverse area. I know people from almost every variety of Christianity including Catholics, Methodists, Lutherans, Protestants, Greek and Russian Orthodox and LDS. I know Muslims, Wiccans, atheists, agnostics, Buddhists, and even a family of Zoroastrians. Oh, and we are Jewish and obviously I knew plenty of Jewish people. So, what prayer do you pick and who gives it?
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Post by drivingmisscrazy on Jun 5, 2016 2:24:23 GMT
I grew up I TX. Plano and I don't recall prayer at any events. We did have a baccalaureate, though. We currently live in a suburb of Houston. 2 kids currently in school and 2 graduated. No prayers at events and no baccalaureate here.
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Peal
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,524
Jun 25, 2014 22:45:40 GMT
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Post by Peal on Jun 5, 2016 2:57:57 GMT
I have never heard a prayer in any of the functions I have attended in this district, including tonight's graduation. We have never attended a sporting event, so I can't answer to that. We do however need to awkwardly muddle through the Texas pledge, mercifully not tonight though.
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Post by myshelly on Jun 5, 2016 3:08:27 GMT
I have never heard a prayer in any of the functions I have attended in this district, including tonight's graduation. We have never attended a sporting event, so I can't answer to that. We do however need to awkwardly muddle through the Texas pledge, mercifully not tonight though. Lol, I love the Texas pledge!
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Post by scrappychick on Jun 5, 2016 3:08:43 GMT
I'm in New York, and that's a big fat never.
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Post by gar on Jun 5, 2016 8:55:29 GMT
Yes, and I think it's awesome. Would you think it was 'awesome' if you were a minority religion? If they were someone else's beliefs but not yours? Can you put yourself in the shoes of someone with different or no religious belief?
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Post by lucyg on Jun 5, 2016 9:12:14 GMT
Yes, and I think it's awesome. I'm curious as to why, as well. I'm assuming the prayers align with your religion, since you think it's awesome. Would you think it was so awesome if the prayers went against your beliefs?
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Post by AussieMeg on Jun 5, 2016 9:47:47 GMT
Definitely NOT here in public schools in Australia.
When I was in primary school back in the 70's we had to say the pledge every Monday morning at school assembly:
We also had Religious Instruction once a week. I can't remember ever having prayer before any events, either in primary or high school in the 80's.
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Post by miominmio on Jun 5, 2016 10:42:46 GMT
Yes, and I think it's awesome. I'm pagan. Would you think it was awesome to listen to our prayers? Muslim ones? Hindi? Buddhist? If the answer is "no", it isn't awesome for us to listen to YOUR prayers either.
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Post by miominmio on Jun 5, 2016 10:44:51 GMT
And living in Norway (where we have a state church, but NOT a state religion anymore), no we don't have prayers in public schools anymore (we still did in the seventies, at least in parts of the country).
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Deleted
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Oct 7, 2024 21:31:11 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2016 10:53:38 GMT
Never led by a school employee. I've seen a few student led ones that were off to the side. There's a group in the band that are also active in church that always does a prayer on school grounds before a game or invitational. The director who is also very active in his church just looks the other way.
It bugs me because I'm a firm believer in separation of church and state. If you want to pray before an event, do it privately or attend a parochial school.
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Post by jennifercw on Jun 5, 2016 14:08:14 GMT
Never led by a school employee. I've seen a few student led ones that were off to the side. There's a group in the band that are also active in church that always does a prayer on school grounds before a game or invitational. The director who is also very active in his church just looks the other way. It bugs me because I'm a firm believer in separation of church and state. If you want to pray before an event, do it privately or attend a parochial school. I'm trying to figure out exactly what is wrong with the scenario you describe. Are you saying you think students should not be able to participate in group prayer on school grounds at all? And that the band director should put a stop to it but doesn't because he attends church?
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 7, 2024 21:31:11 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2016 14:17:01 GMT
Never led by a school employee. I've seen a few student led ones that were off to the side. There's a group in the band that are also active in church that always does a prayer on school grounds before a game or invitational. The director who is also very active in his church just looks the other way. It bugs me because I'm a firm believer in separation of church and state. If you want to pray before an event, do it privately or attend a parochial school. I'm trying to figure out exactly what is wrong with the scenario you describe. Are you saying you think students should not be able to participate in group prayer on school grounds at all? And that the band director should put a stop to it but doesn't because he attends church? It used to be that NO prayers could be done on school grounds. Prayers around the flag pole that was student led were banned. I feel like the director looks the other way because he favors the church-going students as well as their parents. I've seen it many times so that's coloring my opinion. The group I've seen praying is pretty large and obvious in what they're doing and against the district's policy. I feel like if you're going to do that, find a private spot, not in the middle of the band room.
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Post by freecharlie on Jun 5, 2016 16:41:52 GMT
Our football team, well many of the sports teams, will join the other school in prayer after the game if we are playing a Christian school. Some join in, some don't.
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Post by jennifercw on Jun 6, 2016 17:09:14 GMT
I'm trying to figure out exactly what is wrong with the scenario you describe. Are you saying you think students should not be able to participate in group prayer on school grounds at all? And that the band director should put a stop to it but doesn't because he attends church? It used to be that NO prayers could be done on school grounds. Prayers around the flag pole that was student led were banned. I feel like the director looks the other way because he favors the church-going students as well as their parents. I've seen it many times so that's coloring my opinion. The group I've seen praying is pretty large and obvious in what they're doing and against the district's policy. I feel like if you're going to do that, find a private spot, not in the middle of the band room. It had always been my understanding that it is legal for students to pray - either privately or in groups - at school. What is not legal is for that prayer to be sponsored in any way by the school. So in your example it would be fine for the band students to gather on their own for a prayer but it would not be fine for the director to join them. So I found your comments (especially "it used to be that NO prayers could be done on school grounds") interesting and they led me to try and find an answer. Found these links: From the Americans United for Separation of Church and State website- www.au.org/resources/publications/prayer-and-the-public-schoolsThe U.S. Supreme Court has been vigilant in forbidding public schools and other agencies of the government to interfere with Americans' constitutional right to follow their own consciences when it comes to religion. In 1962, the justices ruled that official prayer had no place in public education.
This decision is widely misunderstood today. The court did not rule that students are forbidden to pray on their own; the justices merely said that government officials had no business composing a prayer for students to recite.
Nothing in the 1962 or 1963 rulings makes it unlawful for public school students to pray or read the Bible (or any other religious book) on a voluntary basis during their free time. Later decisions have made this even clearer. In 1990, the high court ruled specifically that high school students may form clubs that meet during "non-instructional" time to pray, read religious texts or discuss religious topics if other student groups are allowed to meet.
From The Washington Post - www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2014/02/20/true-or-false-students-can-pray-in-public-school-any-time-they-want/Truth be told, students of all faiths are actually free to pray alone or in groups during the school day, as long as they don’t disrupt the school or interfere with the rights of others. Of course, the right to engage in voluntary prayer or religious discussion does not necessarily include the right to preach to a captive audience, like an assembly, or to compel other students to participate.
From The U.S. Department of Education - www2.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/religionandschools/prayer_guidance.html
Although the Constitution forbids public school officials from directing or favoring prayer, students do not "shed their constitutional rights to freedom of speech or expression at the schoolhouse gate," For example, "nothing in the Constitution ... prohibits any public school student from voluntarily praying at any time before, during, or after the school day," and students may pray with fellow students during the school day on the same terms and conditions that they may engage in other conversation or speech. Likewise, local school authorities possess substantial discretion to impose rules of order and pedagogical restrictions on student activities, but they may not structure or administer such rules to discriminate against student prayer or religious speech.
Students may organize prayer groups, religious clubs, and "see you at the pole" gatherings before school to the same extent that students are permitted to organize other non-curricular student activities groups. Such groups must be given the same access to school facilities for assembling as is given to other non-curricular groups, without discrimination because of the religious content of their expression.
For the record, I completely agree that schools should not endorse religion of any kind in any way - no prayer to begin a PTA meeting, no prayer over the loudspeaker at football games, etc. But I will stand up all day long for a students individual right to pray at school. However, that goes for all prayers so that group of (presumably) Christian band students better be prepared to accept a group of Muslim or Jewish students who wish to begin with a group prayer of their own. And the band director better be prepared to look the other way for those prayers too!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2016 18:44:04 GMT
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MerryMom
Pearl Clutcher
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Jul 24, 2014 19:51:57 GMT
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Post by MerryMom on Jun 6, 2016 19:30:13 GMT
Graduation? Football games? PTA meetings? Honors Society Induction?
Central Ohio and I've never heard a prayer before any of those events, only the Pledge of Allegiance or National Anthem.
I asked my son and he said they only time there has been a prayer for a school related event or club, is before FCA Fellowship of Christian Athletes. During XC season, sometimes, they gather together for a quick prayer or whatever.
Also, I graduated in 1980 from high school and no prayers for those events either. Those aren't religious ceremonies and therefore I don't think should be done at a public event.
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psiluvu
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,217
Location: Canada's Capital
Jun 25, 2014 22:52:26 GMT
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Post by psiluvu on Jun 6, 2016 19:53:12 GMT
Never at public schools here.
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Post by gar on Jun 6, 2016 21:51:01 GMT
scrapbug - several people had questions about your statement, care to come back and discuss?
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River
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,575
Location: Alabama
Jun 26, 2014 15:26:04 GMT
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Post by River on Jun 6, 2016 22:04:27 GMT
Does your PUBLIC school have prayers at public school events? Graduation? Football games? PTA meetings? Honors Society Induction? Etc? Also, where do you live? I'm just wondering how it compares in different parts of the country? In small town Alabama, yes at most of the above listed events. At the very least there is a moment of silence. There would be more of an outrage if there WASN'T a prayer or at least a moment of silence, but a prayer is most common.
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Post by bosoxbeth on Jun 7, 2016 14:08:57 GMT
Thankfully, no, not around here (NYC suburbs). At least not in my experience. I am all for prayer (I'm a rabbi!). But please, separation of church and state! It does not belong in public schools!
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