Deleted
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Oct 7, 2024 11:20:09 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2016 19:23:50 GMT
Ok peas here is the issue. I now have two dental insurances. My son had his braces placed in December and the first insurance was billed 3980.00. This is the number on all our paperwork and what our payments are based on. The benifit for this insurance is 1750.00. Our second insurance went into affect June 1st and we let the orthodontic know and they have billed this insurance 7180.00. That is over 3000.00 MORE than the cost of treatment. The new insurance will cover 3,000.00 on braces. Are they trying to get all they can from my insurance? Is this even legal? TIA!
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Post by txdancermom on Jun 11, 2016 19:25:19 GMT
I would ask the ortho what they are doing. I am not sure they can file again
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Post by 950nancy on Jun 11, 2016 19:29:17 GMT
I would double check with your orthodontist's office. While it doesn't seem right, maybe there is something they do to collect that you are unaware of. Billing can be crazy.
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momto4kiddos
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,153
Jun 26, 2014 11:45:15 GMT
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Post by momto4kiddos on Jun 11, 2016 19:30:32 GMT
I'm not sure I follow. So they received from the first insurance company $1750.00 towards treatment and that is all the allowable benefit from that company? The balance you'd owe without the 2nd insurance would be $2230.00?
Wondering if they are over billing in order to try to cover as much of the cost as they can through insurance. Not sure about it, but it definitely seems a bit off if the payments from both companies add up to more than the treatment costs they quoted you!
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Deleted
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Oct 7, 2024 11:20:09 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2016 19:31:43 GMT
I'd check with the orthodontist's office, and I'd also contact your insurance company that's been overbilled and get them to investigate.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 7, 2024 11:20:09 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2016 20:29:00 GMT
Basically it is like having double coverage if you have secondary insurance and goes by "coordination of benefits" rules. Many times if both parents have a kid covered there is a rule as to who is primary and who is secondary. This is not fraud. They will pay part (or all) what the first didn't pay. I've had that happen when DH switched jobs and dental/ortho coverage during the DDs braces years. We got lucky and the first paid their max of $1500 and then the max actually starts over when you move to a new dental insurance company.
Not sure why they changed the total owed, but do agree it is probably to get the max out of the 2nd insurance company. If so, I would expect they will refund any overpayment that you made back to you. The only read fraud issue would be if they got paid over the total amount owned and didn't return it to you or the insurance companies.
Most dental plans have a max amount they will pay on orthodontics (if they have coverage at all, they are usually between $1k and $3k). So in the end I suspect you directly will be getting some type of refund.
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momto4kiddos
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,153
Jun 26, 2014 11:45:15 GMT
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Post by momto4kiddos on Jun 11, 2016 20:29:51 GMT
Momto4kiddos: Yes your right: Our paperwork says total treatment cost: 3980.00. First insurance paid 1750.00, leaving the balance of 2230.00. Our secondary insurance for orthodontic can effective June 1st and they submit the claim stating fees for orthopedic is 7180.00 nearly DOUBLE to the agreed fees. He has 6 month left on treatment ( it was 12 month treatment) We have already paid in 1365.00 so our current balance 864.00. This is just phase one treatment so if they drain this insurance when he gets them for phase 2 in a few yes we will have nothing left. I'd be very concerned then about what they are up to. Have they given you a price for phase 2 and although odd are trying to bill for that? I'd definitely be having a conversation with them on Monday. I do not understand why they'd over bill like that and i'd be concerned if they were billing for a treatment that isn't happening for a couple years.
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Deleted
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Oct 7, 2024 11:20:09 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2016 21:02:14 GMT
That doesn't sound right to me as the price you were given/quoted is fixed for the duration of the treatment period. Also, aside from the balance of $2230 in question, shouldn't the balance be prorated being that the initial period of service began before coverage even became effective?
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YooHoot
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,432
Jun 26, 2014 3:11:50 GMT
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Post by YooHoot on Jun 11, 2016 21:16:48 GMT
Sounds like they accidentally billed the 2nd insurance for 2 years of ortho treatment instead of 12 months. Still needs to be fixed even though they will only pay for it once (ortho usually has a lifetime max).
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Post by littlemama on Jun 11, 2016 21:28:50 GMT
I doubt the second insurance is going to pay since it was not in effect when the treatment began. I would ask the ortho office what they are doing and if the answer isn't satisfactory, I would call the insurance company and tell them not to pay.
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Post by annabella on Jun 11, 2016 21:32:08 GMT
My mom wrote a letter to her insurance company when she suspected her doctor was committing insurance fraud. The insurance company did read it and responded to her letter. One part she just didn't understand and the other issue is still being investigated.
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Deleted
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Oct 7, 2024 11:20:09 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2016 21:34:14 GMT
I doubt the second insurance is going to pay since it was not in effect when the treatment began. I would ask the ortho office what they are doing and if the answer isn't satisfactory, I would call the insurance company and tell them not to pay. With my girlies, they did.. they started the first round and then we changed jobs/insurance and the payments by the dental insurance started that month which was mid treatment. And the old insurance stopped paying as of DH's termination date/end of month. I think it's a little known fact that this can happen because it doesn't happen very often. Just like if you lose your insurance they won't pay out the rest of the treatment payments.
I think the dental insurance used to pay a large chunk or their portion up front and then learned that they were overpaying when people dropped coverage (For whatever reason) so now they pay over time also. DS is now in orthodontics and the insurance is paying over the whole treatment plan.
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Deleted
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Oct 7, 2024 11:20:09 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2016 22:31:37 GMT
I would sit down with the ortho's office and have them walk you through their accounting documents line-by-line and show you what they are doing. We had a very similar situation.
We have two dental insurance policies - one for $2000 ortho coverage and the other for $1000 ortho coverage. Our ortho does treatment in two phases - Phase I during elementary school then Phase II during middle school after all permanent teeth come in.
My youngest was going through her Phase I treatment which cost $1800. I told the ortho too use ONLY the $1000 plan for Phase I and I would pay the rest out of pocket. I wanted to use the other plan for the more expensive and involved Phase II.
I received an insurance statement from the $2K plan showing where the ortho had been billing them for the last nine months. I was also receiving monthly statements from the $1K plan showing were payments were being made to the ortho. I was also making auto-draft payments each month on my credit card. When I totaled all the payments from all three sources I saw where Phase I had been overpaid by around $1800.
I put all my payments in an XLS spreadsheet with date, source and totals. I then put a comparison column to show what their statement was saying. I took all of it to the ortho's billing person and went through it line-by-line. She saw how big her mistake was with my account. That mistake prompted an audit of the entire office. When it was all said and done there was a new billing clerk about a month later.
It was a cluster but we got it taken care of with a lot of legwork on my part. I now watch payments to them like a hawk. They mail a monthly statement showing what was paid, from whom, and the remaining balance in a running order - very similar to what I did in my XLS.
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tduby1
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,979
Jun 27, 2014 18:32:45 GMT
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Post by tduby1 on Jun 11, 2016 23:41:19 GMT
Momto4kiddos: Yes your right: Our paperwork says total treatment cost: 3980.00. First insurance paid 1750.00, leaving the balance of 2230.00. Our secondary insurance for orthodontic can effective June 1st and they submit the claim stating fees for orthopedic is 7180.00 nearly DOUBLE to the agreed fees. He has 6 month left on treatment ( it was 12 month treatment) We have already paid in 1365.00 so our current balance 864.00. This is just phase one treatment so if they drain this insurance when he gets them for phase 2 in a few yes we will have nothing left. 3980 is very low for ortho for our area. 6500 is about the average rate. I wonder if they gave you a discount on what was going to be your portion, but are not willing to give an ins company the same benefit. I think that is likely. I received two discounts after ins that reduced my amt. (multi child and professional since I work in a referring office).
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tduby1
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,979
Jun 27, 2014 18:32:45 GMT
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Post by tduby1 on Jun 11, 2016 23:42:49 GMT
I doubt the second insurance is going to pay since it was not in effect when the treatment began. I would ask the ortho office what they are doing and if the answer isn't satisfactory, I would call the insurance company and tell them not to pay. With my girlies, they did.. they started the first round and then we changed jobs/insurance and the payments by the dental insurance started that month which was mid treatment. And the old insurance stopped paying as of DH's termination date/end of month. I think it's a little known fact that this can happen because it doesn't happen very often. Just like if you lose your insurance they won't pay out the rest of the treatment payments.
I think the dental insurance used to pay a large chunk or their portion up front and then learned that they were overpaying when people dropped coverage (For whatever reason) so now they pay over time also. DS is now in orthodontics and the insurance is paying over the whole treatment plan.
Yes! The ortho bills it all up front, then ins pays monthly payments.
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