Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103 
|
Post by Rainbow on Jun 11, 2016 20:00:49 GMT
link A very interesting article.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 7, 2024 9:23:16 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2016 20:03:01 GMT
|
|
Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
|
Post by Rainbow on Jun 11, 2016 20:07:12 GMT
Are you planning a flare-up? If not then this is simply a discussion.
|
|
|
|
Post by mzza111 on Jun 11, 2016 20:28:10 GMT
Yep! Attachments:
|
|
|
|
Post by secondlife on Jun 11, 2016 20:39:51 GMT
Manhattan Institute is far from unbiased.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 7, 2024 9:23:16 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2016 20:40:04 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by mirabelleswalker on Jun 11, 2016 20:41:49 GMT
Do you think Brock Turner would be walking free in three months if he weren't white?
Of course the justice system is racist and it starts when children are in school.
That article lost me in the first sentence. "Race industry?" WTF is that?
Also, it's from 2008. Check out the more current statistics on who is in the criminal justice system.
|
|
|
|
Post by cmpeter on Jun 11, 2016 20:50:45 GMT
Yes
|
|
AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,969
|
Post by AnotherPea on Jun 11, 2016 20:58:51 GMT
I lean to thinking less racism and more about privilege. People of color don't tend to be privileged, so the stats make it seem about race instead of means and connections.
|
|
Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
|
Post by Rainbow on Jun 11, 2016 21:21:13 GMT
So how do you explain this: "Let’s start with the idea that cops over-arrest blacks and ignore white criminals. In fact, the race of criminals reported by crime victims matches arrest data. As long ago as 1978, a study of robbery and aggravated assault in eight cities found parity between the race of assailants in victim identifications and in arrests—a finding replicated many times since, across a range of crimes. No one has ever come up with a plausible argument as to why crime victims would be biased in their reports." I love to hear how that was manipulated by racists.
|
|
|
|
Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jun 11, 2016 21:23:26 GMT
I think that there are:
Judges who base punishments and sentences on race; but not all or even a majority proportion,
I think that there are:
Communities where the stats show a higher percentage of AF who are jailed, but at the same time make up the majority of the population of that community, so compared with other stats in other communities, may show a (false) largess of incarcerated AF,
I think that there are:
Many AF who receive longer punishments/sentences than whites,
I think that there are:
Many more whites who have resources (money, legal) than AF to help them mitigate punishments/sentences,
I think that there is a lot more AF on AF crime, so we are more exposed to it via the news,
...
|
|
|
|
Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jun 11, 2016 21:26:21 GMT
So how do you explain this: "Let’s start with the idea that cops over-arrest blacks and ignore white criminals. In fact, the race of criminals reported by crime victims matches arrest data. As long ago as 1978, a study of robbery and aggravated assault in eight cities found parity between the race of assailants in victim identifications and in arrests—a finding replicated many times since, across a range of crimes. No one has ever come up with a plausible argument as to why crime victims would be biased in their reports." I love to hear how that was manipulated by racists. Need more info, such as demographics, and # of crimes committed separated by race, and what the # of those who committed crimes were let go and what their race was. It's super easy to just state that something is unbalanced because if race, but I do think that certain things need to be considered-- |
|
Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
|
Post by Rainbow on Jun 11, 2016 21:41:31 GMT
So how do you explain this: "Let’s start with the idea that cops over-arrest blacks and ignore white criminals. In fact, the race of criminals reported by crime victims matches arrest data. As long ago as 1978, a study of robbery and aggravated assault in eight cities found parity between the race of assailants in victim identifications and in arrests—a finding replicated many times since, across a range of crimes. No one has ever come up with a plausible argument as to why crime victims would be biased in their reports." I love to hear how that was manipulated by racists. Need more info, such as demographics, and # of crimes committed separated by race, and what the # of those who committed crimes were let go and what their race was. It's super easy to just state that something is unbalanced because if race, but I do think that certain things need to be considered-- |
|
|
|
Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jun 11, 2016 21:45:39 GMT
Need more info, such as demographics, and # of crimes committed separated by race, and what the # of those who committed crimes were let go and what their race was. It's super easy to just state that something is unbalanced because if race, but I do think that certain things need to be considered-- No. I was rereading and decided I didn't know what you are really posting this ^^ (so how do you explain this post ) for and what your question (if any) was regarding this quoted post (not the OP) |
|
Dalai Mama
Drama Llama
La Pea Boheme
Posts: 6,985
Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
|
Post by Dalai Mama on Jun 11, 2016 21:56:10 GMT
So how do you explain this: "Let’s start with the idea that cops over-arrest blacks and ignore white criminals. In fact, the race of criminals reported by crime victims matches arrest data. As long ago as 1978, a study of robbery and aggravated assault in eight cities found parity between the race of assailants in victim identifications and in arrests—a finding replicated many times since, across a range of crimes. No one has ever come up with a plausible argument as to why crime victims would be biased in their reports." I love to hear how that was manipulated by racists. So, if the victim says that it was a white guy that assaulted them, the cops didn't go out and arrest a black guy? This is how we measure a system as unbiased? |
|
Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
|
Post by Rainbow on Jun 11, 2016 21:59:35 GMT
The victims reported the race of the criminals. Do you think they had an agenda? No. I was rereading and decided I didn't know what you are really posting this ^^ (so how do you explain this post ) for and what your question (if any) was regarding this quoted post (not the OP) |
|
Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
|
Post by Rainbow on Jun 11, 2016 22:01:16 GMT
So how do you explain this: "Let’s start with the idea that cops over-arrest blacks and ignore white criminals. In fact, the race of criminals reported by crime victims matches arrest data. As long ago as 1978, a study of robbery and aggravated assault in eight cities found parity between the race of assailants in victim identifications and in arrests—a finding replicated many times since, across a range of crimes. No one has ever come up with a plausible argument as to why crime victims would be biased in their reports." I love to hear how that was manipulated by racists. So, if the victim says that it was a white guy that assaulted them, the cops didn't go out and arrest a black guy? This is how we measure a system as unbiased? |
|
Dalai Mama
Drama Llama
La Pea Boheme
Posts: 6,985
Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
|
Post by Dalai Mama on Jun 11, 2016 22:09:24 GMT
So, if the victim says that it was a white guy that assaulted them, the cops didn't go out and arrest a black guy? This is how we measure a system as unbiased? I thought it made perfect sense. To me, this: 'the race of criminals reported by crime victims matches arrest data' & 'a study of robbery and aggravated assault in eight cities found parity between the race of assailants in victim identifications and in arrests' means nothing more than the race of the person arrested matched the race as was identified by a given victim. |
|
Rainbow
Pearl Clutcher
Where salt is in the air and sand is at my feet...
Posts: 4,103
|
Post by Rainbow on Jun 11, 2016 22:21:41 GMT
I'm not even sure what you are saying makes any sense? I thought it made perfect sense. To me, this: 'the race of criminals reported by crime victims matches arrest data' & 'a study of robbery and aggravated assault in eight cities found parity between the race of assailants in victim identifications and in arrests' means nothing more than the race of the person arrested matched the race as was identified by a given victim. |
|
twinsmomfla99
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,087
|
Post by twinsmomfla99 on Jun 11, 2016 22:23:01 GMT
So how do you explain this: "Let’s start with the idea that cops over-arrest blacks and ignore white criminals. In fact, the race of criminals reported by crime victims matches arrest data. As long ago as 1978, a study of robbery and aggravated assault in eight cities found parity between the race of assailants in victim identifications and in arrests—a finding replicated many times since, across a range of crimes. No one has ever come up with a plausible argument as to why crime victims would be biased in their reports." I love to hear how that was manipulated by racists. You can start with that, and it makes sense, because the victim is not "part of the criminal justice system." If the victim reports an assault by a white guy, the police aren't going to go out and arrest a black guy. The victim wants the real criminal put away and is unlikely to report the wrong race in the original statement. How do you account for the "racism" in the crimes that have no "victims" reporting them (mainly drug related or traffic stops or stop-and-frisk, etc). And even if they do arrest the "correct race" based on the victims statement, do you account for the high rate of wrongful conviction based on improper lineups and the inherent unreliability of a witness statement as the primary source of evidence for a conviction, even when there is physical evidence that someone other than the accused committed the crime? Research some of the old cases that have been overturned based on DNA evidence. Have you heard of racial bias in jury selection? What about the different sentences based on racism, including bias based on the race of the victim, i.e. some victims are more "worthy " of justice than others. An arrest is just one step in the journey through the legal system. There is plenty of racism before and after the arrest. |
|
anaterra
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,082
Location: Texas
Jun 29, 2014 3:04:02 GMT
|
Post by anaterra on Jun 11, 2016 22:28:31 GMT
In my city in west Texas in the past 2 yrs... there was a white lady with some money who was very drunk.. ran a red light killed the black guy she ran into n received probation.. the privileged white man who was speeding.. ran a stop sign a killed my mexican brother in law.. received probation... a mexican guy drunk.. ran a stop sign injured... did not kill...a white man and is serving time.. a mexican lady.. not drunk but blinded by the sun.. ran into a white man on his motorcycle.. killed him even though he had no helmet... she is serving time... same DA.. same judge.. same court... i say it's race related...
|
|
carhoch
Pearl Clutcher
Be yourself everybody else is already taken
Posts: 3,028
Location: We’re RV’s so It change all the time .
|
Post by carhoch on Jun 11, 2016 22:32:39 GMT
I did jury duty last year for a first-degree murder and I can tell you if I am murder I am white ,my husband is a plant manager he has a good income the investigation made by the police will be way more thorough, the prosecutor would be a much better lawyer then what I witnessed in that court room for the murder of a poor black man killed by another poor black man.
I don't think rich and poor people are treated the same and I think skin color play a role in this .
|
|
|
|
Post by lucyg on Jun 11, 2016 22:37:06 GMT
Rainbow, what happens after the police arrest suspects of the proper race as described by the victims? Are black suspects charged more often than white ones? Are they charged with more serious crimes than white suspects under similar circumstances? Are they convicted more often? Are they given longer sentences for the same crimes? Do they serve longer terms in prison before being allowed parole?
All of these matters have been associated with alleged institutionalized racism within the criminal justice system. I wouldn't even assume it is deliberate racism, but I do believe it is sometimes built in to the system.
I stopped reading your article after the first few paragraphs because it was clearly an opinion piece with a snarky tone I wasn't enjoying, so I don't know what other data the author delved into. But I do know there's been academic research showing some of these issues do exist.
When a right-wing thinker writes an article intended to disprove racial bias in the criminal justice system, it's very easy for her to cherry-pick the statistics to suit her needs.
And I say this as a strong supporter of the criminal justice system. I am not anti-police. And I realize there are people who will scream "racism!" over every car stop, every arrest, every officer-involved shooting, every conviction.
But I'm not blind to the faults in the system, either.
|
|
twinsmomfla99
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,087
|
Post by twinsmomfla99 on Jun 11, 2016 22:45:56 GMT
I challenge anyone to read Just Mercy by Bryan Stephenson and come away still believing the justice system is fair and unbiased.
|
|
|
|
Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jun 11, 2016 22:50:54 GMT
No, I would not think that they (victims) had an agenda or lie. (Speaking to your question regarding the article)
IF THEY DID LIE, then I would GUESS that their reason for accusing "the wrong race" would be based on their hatred or revenge.
I would HOPE that the LEO would thoroughly investigate to find the real guilty party.
AND if the victim lied and was caught lying I would hope that there would be repercussions that they should suffer.
IF the LEO Did not investigate, and was found to be biased, racist and just arrested the (wrong) person because of their bias, I would hope that they were punished too.
I know that the system is not perfect, but I do believe (have faith) in our justice system, as well as believing that there is always room for improvement.
|
|
valleyview
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,816
Jun 27, 2014 18:41:26 GMT
|
Post by valleyview on Jun 12, 2016 0:29:00 GMT
The Supreme Court had a recent decision that was 7 to 1. They said that there is a bias caused by juries that do not accurately reflect the peers of the accused. 7 to 1.
Yes, our system is biased. The criminal justice system is not just about accurate arrests.
|
|
tracylynn
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,899
|
Post by tracylynn on Jun 12, 2016 1:30:22 GMT
Of course there is racism in the justice system. To deny it, or try to disprove it, shows ignorance.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 7, 2024 9:23:16 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2016 2:39:16 GMT
Obey the law no matter what color you are and you won't have an issue of the justice system being too hard on you.  Wow. That's very little help to anyone wrongly convicted and punished, especially those who were wrongly convicted and punished because of racial factors. Or victims in cases like the Stanford rape case. Total miscarriage of justice due to privilege and special treatment, including his race. |
|
|
|
Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jun 12, 2016 2:45:25 GMT
Obey the law no matter what color you are and you won't have an issue of the justice system being too hard on you. Wow. That's very little help to anyone wrongly convicted and punished, especially those who were wrongly convicted and punished because of racial factors. Or victims in cases like the Stanford rape case. Total miscarriage of justice due to privilege and special treatment, including his race. I don't think scaredmomma was talking about those instances! |
|
|
|
Post by M~ on Jun 12, 2016 3:42:52 GMT
Obey the law no matter what color you are and you won't have an issue of the justice system being too hard on you. Ever heard of driving while black? Or being stopped just because you're strolling around a predominantly white neighborhood? or your behavior being seen and judged differently because of your race? I suppose not. |
|
Wow. That's very little help to anyone wrongly convicted and punished, especially those who were wrongly convicted and punished because of racial factors. Or victims in cases like the Stanford rape case. Total miscarriage of justice due to privilege and special treatment, including his race.