jayfab
Drama Llama
procastinating
Posts: 5,591 
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Post by jayfab on Jun 14, 2016 14:00:24 GMT
Terrorists make a point of fitting right in don't they? I'm starting to think this isn't the case. Me too. I knew quite a few Muslims going to college here back in my younger years and some drank and some didn't. Just like any religion, some really adhere to the beliefs, some kind of and some rebel. I think we have the idea that all Muslims are extremely devout, but that's not necessarily true. |
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Post by Darcy Collins on Jun 14, 2016 14:01:49 GMT
Honestly, I think this complicates the conversation so much-terrorism, hate, mental illness...a combination of all it? I think we do it a disservice by trying to narrow it to only terrorism or hatred of the LGBT community as an extension of his self-hatred or even mental illness. Seems to me that one leads to the other and the combination of all leads to this horrible event. I agree with this. I don't really understand all the tap dancing I'm seeing online to try and put this in a pretty little "mental illness" box or "hate gays box." I suppose they don't want to acknowledge the impact ISIS is having in western countries. I brought this up during the Syrian refugee crisis. All this hand wringing about Syrian refugees who might be radicalized seemed misdirected when ISIS has proven to have absolutely no difficulty radicalizing native born westerners from Europe, Australia and yes the US. Islam is no friend to gays. Are the mentally ill, socially ostracized, etc more vulnerable to these messages - of course. Healthy, happy, well adjusted people don't go out and murder innocent people. |
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Post by nurseypants on Jun 14, 2016 14:16:47 GMT
For some reason that I don't quite understand, people really need this to be a terrorist thing. But it's probably not. It's a guy, who clearly had some issues, glomming onto a radical ideal because it provided a framework for his own confused and messed-up thinking. There are tons of people in America like this. This guy was not an immigrant, he was American born and bred. You can't eradicate this problem any more than you can eradicate Chritian extremists who shoot abortion doctors.
If it wasn't ISIS it was going to be something else for this guy.
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Post by missmiss on Jun 14, 2016 15:22:29 GMT
Where is the 911 recording? I mean he did call right? I wonder why that hasn't been leaked yet.
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Post by missmiss on Jun 14, 2016 15:29:32 GMT
So the man is a regular at a gay club. He also had a profile on a gay dating site. Could he have called and pledged allegiance to ISIS just to make it look like he wasn't gay?  ? Makes one wonder |
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Post by annabella on Jun 14, 2016 15:42:27 GMT
However, Saudia Arabia confirmed that he did TWO religious trips to Mecca. ... could those trips be like my catholic family growing up. They were self confessed not religious, not church goers, but for whatever reason the Catholic Guilt kicked in and they were there Easter Vigil and Midnight Mass at Christmas every year. My grandmother would go to midnight mass let's just say "feeling no pain". SaveI don't think so, he paid $1000 to fly 16 hours around the world, spend 5 days walking with 1000s of other people (where there's always a stampede and people die) and carry out a series of rituals all wearing the same outfit. They spend the night praying and sleeping on the ground under the sky. You can't compare it to a leisurely trip to Rome for Easter Mass. And you definitely wouldn't do it twice unless he was trying to pray the gay out. |
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Post by anxiousmom on Jun 14, 2016 15:50:36 GMT
... could those trips be like my catholic family growing up. They were self confessed not religious, not church goers, but for whatever reason the Catholic Guilt kicked in and they were there Easter Vigil and Midnight Mass at Christmas every year. My grandmother would go to midnight mass let's just say "feeling no pain". SaveI don't think so, he paid $1000 to fly 16 hours around the world, spend 5 days walking with 1000s of other people (where there's always a stampede and people die) and carry out a series of rituals all wearing the same outfit. They spend the night praying and sleeping on the ground under the sky. You can't compare it to a leisurely trip to Rome for Easter Mass. And you definitely wouldn't do it twice unless he was trying to pray the gay out. The pilgrimage to Mecca is one of the fundamental beliefs of the Islamic faith. If one can afford it, it is one of the holiest rites that can be performed. Families save up for years in order to go. For those who are able to do it more than once, they will do so. Praying the gay away likely doesn't have a lot to do with it. Piousness, trying to reach a point of piousness, probably. |
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Post by femalebusiness on Jun 14, 2016 16:00:16 GMT
Yeah, I told my husband we were going to find out he was on the down low. Not surprisring at all. Or was he trying to blend in (lie), get a feel for the layout of the club, and do the most damage? The linked story sounds like he was a loner when he was at the club. Nah, he was basically killing himself for having at the very least gay thoughts. That's why he threw that fit in front of his dad when those two guys kissed. His dad is a raging homophobe. On top of that the shooter is nuts. Of course this is just speculation. The investigation needs to be concluded. |
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Post by femalebusiness on Jun 14, 2016 16:05:27 GMT
Wow, that's quite the revelation!! A (gay) friend of mine posted the following comment on FB alongside a selfie of the shooter just after the news of the shooting: When I read that I thought "No way is the shooter gay, how would (my friend) get that from a photo?" Huh, looks like he was right. Meg, your friend hit the nail right on the head. He/she is absolutely correct. |
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grammanisi
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,741
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Post by grammanisi on Jun 14, 2016 16:17:35 GMT
I am not one bit surprised by this information. I told my husband that I had a feeling he was not a stranger to the club or the lifestyle.
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grammanisi
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,741
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Post by grammanisi on Jun 14, 2016 16:19:53 GMT
he was basically killing himself for having at the very least gay thoughts. That's why he threw that fit in front of his dad when those two guys kissed. His dad is a raging homophobe Exactly what I said to my husband. |
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azredhead
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,755
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Post by azredhead on Jun 14, 2016 17:39:59 GMT
I'm not totally convinced there's too much info about what he was doing before the attacks and the 911 calls....and now the reports this morning the current wife knew of his plans? I hope they get more info out of her and she is charged fully!?! And why scoping out Disney? It sounds like he had other plans? Wife Of Shooter |
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Post by freecharlie on Jun 14, 2016 18:44:09 GMT
According to the npresent report I heard this morning, the shooter claimed to be part of al qaeda and hezbollah which doesn't make sense as they aren't cool with each other. Then he added isis.
It is part of the reason the fbi didn't consider him a credible threat.
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Post by chlerbie on Jun 14, 2016 19:17:02 GMT
He namechecked every extremist group he could think of, it seems to me. He also mentioned Al Qaeda and the Taliban and several others, many of whom are absolute enemies of each other in the way that only similar extremists can be. I really think this was not really terrorism motivated.
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Post by annabella on Jun 14, 2016 19:51:39 GMT
It's come out now that his wife drove him to the club to scope it out in the past and knew he bought the guns.
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? Makes one wonder
