melissa
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,912
Jun 25, 2014 20:45:00 GMT
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Post by melissa on Jun 14, 2016 3:12:19 GMT
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jun 14, 2016 3:19:41 GMT
Wow!
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Post by annabella on Jun 14, 2016 3:19:44 GMT
I knew it! I had a feeling he was a regular, how did he know to target that club? I barely know where the gay clubs are, I'd have to google it. Something about his selfies screamed these are for a gay dating app profile pic.
I saw on the news the police searched his father's house and took out bags of evidence, did he live with his father? When his father said his son wasn't religious, I think a local Muslim group told him to say that to make it seem that it wasn't an Islam thing. However, Saudia Arabia confirmed that he did TWO religious trips to Mecca.
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Post by scrapmaven on Jun 14, 2016 3:21:03 GMT
Terrorists make a point of fitting right in don't they?
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Post by femalebusiness on Jun 14, 2016 3:22:53 GMT
Yeah, I told my husband we were going to find out he was on the down low. Not surprisring at all.
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Post by mom on Jun 14, 2016 3:25:14 GMT
Yeah I am not really surprised at all. I told my DH that he had some big skeletons in his closet, and this was his way of proving himself.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jun 14, 2016 3:29:37 GMT
The whole thing is just unbelievable ---sounds planned out for a long time!
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Post by JBeans on Jun 14, 2016 3:32:38 GMT
I wondered if it has more to do with mental illness and self loathing than terrorism. When we had the shooting in Ottawa, the "lone wolf" shooter had a criminal past filled with drug use and mental instability.
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Post by jumperhop on Jun 14, 2016 3:52:26 GMT
I wondered if it has more to do with mental illness and self loathing than terrorism. When we had the shooting in Ottawa, the "lone wolf" shooter had a criminal past filled with drug use and mental instability. It's surely looking more and more like this. ? Jen
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Post by bc2ca on Jun 14, 2016 3:55:13 GMT
Shocking and not shocking at the same time sounds right. There was a lot of hatred in this guy, starting with self-hate.
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smginaz Suzy
Pearl Clutcher
Je suis desole.
Posts: 2,606
Jun 26, 2014 17:27:30 GMT
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Post by smginaz Suzy on Jun 14, 2016 4:31:58 GMT
It must be the 6th circle of hell to be gay and to also be a homophobe.
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Post by AussieMeg on Jun 14, 2016 4:40:17 GMT
Wow, that's quite the revelation!! A (gay) friend of mine posted the following comment on FB alongside a selfie of the shooter just after the news of the shooting:
When I read that I thought "No way is the shooter gay, how would (my friend) get that from a photo?" Huh, looks like he was right.
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Post by refugeepea on Jun 14, 2016 4:41:59 GMT
Yeah, I told my husband we were going to find out he was on the down low. Not surprisring at all. Or was he trying to blend in (lie), get a feel for the layout of the club, and do the most damage? The linked story sounds like he was a loner when he was at the club.
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Post by monicad on Jun 14, 2016 4:43:33 GMT
It must be the 6th circle of hell to be gay and to also be a homophobe. It's starting to look like this may be the case, but I think it's important to let the investigation happen and then find out (as much as we can) what really happened. There are so many alleged components to this case: ISIS, gay nightclub, FBI investigations, mental illness, history of violence, etc. I wonder if he was using the gay dating app and going to the nightclub as a way to set all this up, or if he really was just conflicted about his beliefs vs. his sexual orientation and then at the last minute tried to tie it to ISIS. No matter what, it's a horrible tragedy and I'm already tired of both candidates using it for their political gain. FYI, if you haven't checked it out already, Anderson Cooper made a very moving tribute to the victims. Worth watching.
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Post by miominmio on Jun 14, 2016 4:43:57 GMT
I have seen how destructive it is for a person to hide being gay......my relative ended up with severe mental illness after a lifetime of trying to escape his true self. Including being suicidal. And the sad thing is, his friends and relatives didn't mind about him being gay (I think everyone "knew" it). So I can absolutely see that the self loathing can be even worse if you live in a context where being gay isn't okay, and that it might be the trigger for a "suicide by cop". Too bad he didn't have the balls to end his life on his own, but felt the need to kill so many innocent people.
Even though his possible homosexuality might explain what happened, it can't be used as an excuse.
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Post by freecharlie on Jun 14, 2016 4:54:34 GMT
When I read that I thought "No way is the shooter gay, how would (my friend) get that from a photo?" Huh, looks like he was right. I have a very good friend who is gay and whenever we hung out, I told him that I got a 5 minute handicap on identifying someone as gay. He could seriously do it so quickly, it was impressive. I can't say I give a damn about the shooter. I don't care what he was going through. I don't care if he was a self-loathing asshole or just a giant prick. I hope he burns in hell. Our local news kdvr has done (is still doing?) a post for each of the victims. They show the victims picture and then it says something about him/her. They and their families are my focus right now. When the investigation is finished, the only thing I want to know about the shooter would be if he could have been stopped.
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Post by lucyg on Jun 14, 2016 5:16:16 GMT
My son (straight) said this yesterday when he saw the first selfies of the shooter on TV. "HE looks gay." I didn't necessarily believe him but now it looks as though he might have been right after all.
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smginaz Suzy
Pearl Clutcher
Je suis desole.
Posts: 2,606
Jun 26, 2014 17:27:30 GMT
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Post by smginaz Suzy on Jun 14, 2016 5:50:51 GMT
I'd just like to clarify that this musing was not meant to assume that the killer was gay. I agree that would just be speculation at this point. I meant it more as a general thought that if a person was gay and also held steadfast homophobic views, what a terrible existence for anyone. Not an excuse for any behavior, just a miserable life for that person.
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Post by monicad on Jun 14, 2016 6:13:51 GMT
I'd just like to clarify that this musing was not meant to assume that the killer was gay. I agree that would just be speculation at this point. I meant it more as a general thought that if a person was gay and also held steadfast homophobic views, what a terrible existence for anyone. Not an excuse for any behavior, just a miserable life for that person. Yes, I totally agree. I grew up in a religion that condemned homosexuality, and saw first hand the conflict it caused. People were either ostracized or, in the case of one particular person, severely depressed from not being able to be in a relationship or live openly as himself. Even as a child I felt so much sadness for these people and couldn't understand why it was so bad. As an adult, I can see how the pressure of family and feelings of guilt could make this unbearable. I'm sure it was utterly miserable. Anyway...just wanted to say I understood the point you were making and agree 100%.
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katybee
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,448
Jun 25, 2014 23:25:39 GMT
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Post by katybee on Jun 14, 2016 7:51:37 GMT
Whether he ends up being gay or not, I truly believe this was much more about a loathing for homosexuality than it ever was about Islam. I think he decided to do a mass shooting inside a gay nightclub and used Isis/Islam as a convenient excuse.
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Enna
Full Member
Posts: 300
Location: PNW
Jan 26, 2016 14:55:35 GMT
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Post by Enna on Jun 14, 2016 12:07:50 GMT
After I read the news I don't believe for a second that he was an ISIS terrorist.
He probaly was gay and unable to accept the fact. Probably called 911 and told them about ISIS because he wanted to hide his true motive.
As sad as that is, I never understand the need to punish innocent people. He was coward.
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Post by anxiousmom on Jun 14, 2016 12:10:37 GMT
Honestly, I think this complicates the conversation so much-terrorism, hate, mental illness...a combination of all it? I think we do it a disservice by trying to narrow it to only terrorism or hatred of the LGBT community as an extension of his self-hatred or even mental illness.
Seems to me that one leads to the other and the combination of all leads to this horrible event.
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Post by Meri-Lyn on Jun 14, 2016 12:18:19 GMT
Wow, that's quite the revelation!! A (gay) friend of mine posted the following comment on FB alongside a selfie of the shooter just after the news of the shooting: When I read that I thought "No way is the shooter gay, how would (my friend) get that from a photo?" Huh, looks like he was right. You know, DH said something similar to me last night, and I looked at him like he was crazy. And then he showed me these stories. I think @jbeans hit it on the head with the mental illness/self loathing thing.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jun 14, 2016 12:54:15 GMT
After I read the news I don't believe for a second that he was an ISIS terrorist. He probaly was gay and unable to accept the fact. Probably called 911 and told them about ISIS because he wanted to hide his true motive. As sad as that is, I never understand the need to punish innocent people. He was coward. And the claim m/pledge to ISIS was a way of "saving face" with his family.
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Dalai Mama
Drama Llama
La Pea Boheme
Posts: 6,985
Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on Jun 14, 2016 12:59:57 GMT
Terrorists make a point of fitting right in don't they? I'm starting to think this isn't the case.
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Post by blondiec47 on Jun 14, 2016 13:03:43 GMT
Terrorists make a point of fitting right in don't they? Exactly--they are also not supposed to drink yet the 9/11 terrorists were seen in bars and flirting with women. They are instructed to fit in with US culture so they are not seen as a threat.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jun 14, 2016 13:05:13 GMT
I'm not decided yet if he was hiding that he was gay and living in turmoil because of it.
With his violence and supposed targeting WDW, I just don't know.
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Dalai Mama
Drama Llama
La Pea Boheme
Posts: 6,985
Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on Jun 14, 2016 13:08:13 GMT
I'm not decided yet if he was hiding that he was gay and living in turmoil because of it. With his violence and supposed targeting WDW, I just don't know. FTR, a lot of anti-gay groups seem to have a hate-on with WDW.
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Country Ham
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,314
Jun 25, 2014 19:32:08 GMT
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Post by Country Ham on Jun 14, 2016 13:12:24 GMT
However, Saudia Arabia confirmed that he did TWO religious trips to Mecca. ... could those trips be like my catholic family growing up. They were self confessed not religious, not church goers, but for whatever reason the Catholic Guilt kicked in and they were there Easter Vigil and Midnight Mass at Christmas every year. My grandmother would go to midnight mass let's just say "feeling no pain". Save
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sweetpeasmom
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,652
Jun 27, 2014 14:04:01 GMT
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Post by sweetpeasmom on Jun 14, 2016 13:25:27 GMT
Yeah, I told my husband we were going to find out he was on the down low. Not surprisring at all. Or was he trying to blend in (lie), get a feel for the layout of the club, and do the most damage? The linked story sounds like he was a loner when he was at the club. This has been my feeling. The fact that there was only one way out of the club, through the front doors (which he was blocking), he had to have known that. As for the WDW angle, could it be that this is Gay Pride month and there are groups that go to WDW as part of this and he wanted to target them? Save
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