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Post by leslie132 on Jun 15, 2016 23:30:28 GMT
I have a very dear friend who is in a marriage that seems to be heading south quickly. I told her I would ask here (cracks me up that I think the Peas know all because I know you ladies don't pull punches and can shed light on a lot of options/ideas. I will say this is a 2nd marriage for both of them. Her first ended with her walking in on her XH and X Best Friend. She laughs and says she misses her friend. My husband and I are friends with both of them. It started between she and I and had grown from there. Both of them are deeply religious( makes it ironic) She has a faith that is strong and unwavering....I'm just trying to give details. They have 3 kids and raise their family as most couples do. Dad works, she is a SAHM and she carts the kids everywhere. Last year she started a direct sales company.....she did fabulous at it. Complete success.....and it drove him insane. Fast forward.....he asked her to stop to work on them. She did. Now it is still the same except she isn't working. The fights (now in front of the kids) are getting louder and more hurtful. He is trying to make her think she is crazy. They both see a doctor. Mainly she goes and he glides in and out. Doctor thinks he is a narcissist. Last fight he called her a "f----- middle age good for nothing stay at home mom who is a psychopath". He is always saying things to get the kids on his side as well. It's sad to hear all the details....which are her side, but when she is sobbing and asking for help I'm helpless. So I said I would ask......what pushed you to make that finally move. Where do you stop it and say enough is enough. What were your first steps? This is so different for her because there isn't cheating or physical. She doesn't know if she should stand up for her marriage or start to prepare for the end. Any advice?
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 6, 2024 23:32:57 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2016 23:42:30 GMT
My advice, just listen. Let her know you are a place she can turn to when she is ready. For me there wasn't the obsentites and name calling... just the cut downs. He wanted me to go back to college to get an education but then HE enrolled in classes which didn't leave tuition money for me. He wanted me to work so we would have more money but he didn't want me tied down to someone else's schedule. He wanted me available on his whims, being military his job was highly erratic. Now that I am out from under his influence I can see that my education and my working was a threat because they gave me self confidence and he was afraid I"d leave. He didn't realize he was squeezing so hard I had to leave.
I was/am deeply religious with a firm "adultery is the only acceptable reason for divorce" Since she has done this once it may not be such a hurdle for her (or it might be)
I ran the day he made a credible (to me) threat to "make you disappear and no one will ever find you" Looking in his eyes, knowing he had thought of killing me, and thought enough about it he was confident he could do it without being caught was chilling. I literally ran for safety. I didn't even stop to put my shoes on. But even then, knowing it would be a life long separation I wasn't ready to think of divorce until a friend called to tell me he had seen the h out holding hands and being kissy faced with another women.
eta: hind sight being 20/20 I wish I had gotten out years earlier. I only delayed the inevidable and delayed starting my own life so now I am running out of time to set up a solidly funded post retirement life.
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Post by mom on Jun 16, 2016 0:04:58 GMT
Im sorry for your friend. It sucks to have the person who should love you say such hateful things to you.
As her friend, just listen. Try to stay as level headed about it. She needs someone who she can vent to, and not worry whats going to happen.
Now, for me, it wasn't some big blow up that pushed me over the edge. I woke up one day and just had enough. I was done and there was no looking back. Even on our wedding night XdH was verbally abusive....then add all the times he threw things, broke things. The affairs. I put up with it all until one day I decided I was done.
The best thing for me was that when I called my friend to come help me get my stuff, she never said a single negative thing about XdH. She just said ok, Im here, lets do this. I had known she didn't like XdH. But she knew it had to be my decision.
We packed me and my kids up and left, never looking back.
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Post by anxiousmom on Jun 16, 2016 0:11:51 GMT
For me it was two things that happened in fairly quick succession-one, I was told that I should be quiet around his friends because I was not smart enough to keep up, and two, sitting on the kitchen floor crying thinking that if he would just hit me I would know better what to do.
(back then people weren't really talking about verbal abuse much and it confused me because I just wasn't sure where to put how talked to me and didn't know that I could call it what it was-abuse.)
Even then when I knew it was time to go, I still never had the guts to leave. He beat me to it anyway-he left for someone he thought would be the smarter one.
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Post by leslie132 on Jun 16, 2016 0:28:40 GMT
I should add.....I don't talk a lot. I do try to listen. My main advice this far (besides asking here) is that I will take my phone to bed with me and if I was needed to call. Anytime, day or night!!
Thanks ladies!
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Post by mom on Jun 16, 2016 0:49:28 GMT
I should add.....I don't talk a lot. I do try to listen. My main advice this far (besides asking here) is that I will take my phone to bed with me and if I was needed to call. Anytime, day or night!! Thanks ladies! Thats a good offering. One thing my bestie did is we had a 'code word' that if/when I needed to go RIGHT THEN but couldn't say so, I could say the word (or text) it and she would just come right then, no questions asked. It made me feel like I had a way out. SaveSave
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Post by mikklynn on Jun 16, 2016 0:50:49 GMT
I would continue to reassure her that he is not speaking the truth and she doesn't deserve the treatment.
It's not good for the kids, believe me. My dad would tell my mom she was worthless and it was really hurtful to me and my siblings. We felt worthless, too.
She needs to end it.
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Post by cakediva on Jun 16, 2016 1:01:30 GMT
My mom remarried after my Dad passed away. My parents had a great marriage, and Mom didn't hesitate to get remarried because marriage had been so great the first time around. She ignored a few signs of control issues.
But she was miserable. She couldn't be herself. Everything was his way or nothing. She hid it well. We all thought she was so very happy. And were glad she had found somebody again.
But seven years later, he had surgery for a small colon cancer tumor removal. And recovery was hellish. He took everything out on my Mom. My brother and I couldn't understand why she wasn't saying anything. My brother actually told her to "grow a pair" - she wore the pants in my parents' marriage, what she said was how it went!
The straw that broke the camels back for her was coming in after running errands for his medications and the washing machine was open (front load). She asked about it, and proceeded to get an earful about how filthy the machine was, and she was washing his sheets in there that he was sleeping on with his surgery stitches and was going to get infected. So she was on her knees cleaning it with him standing over her ranting, and decided to "grow a pair" and stood up and said "while you've been sick I've grown a backbone and I'm not listening to this any further" - he followed her into the kitchen and said "maybe you should grow a f***ing brain too. You're a f***ing idiot"
And with that, she grabbed her purse and left the condo. She called my brother from a parking lot, and then drove to her sister-in-law's (husbands sister). They took her back to the condo to pack an overnight bag, and she hasn't been back since. She went right to a lawyer 2 days later, and a week later she had made arrangements to get a moving truck to the condo to pack up all her belongings and move out.
It doesn't matter that it isn't physical. Emotional and verbal abuse leave scars behind as well. It is still abuse. Just because he hasn't hit her or cheated on her, doesn't mean he isn't verbally abusing her.
ETA - my Mom is religious as well. She is very strong in her Catholic faith (so much so, that as he was divorced from his first wife, if it hadn't also been annulled, she couldn't have married him in the Catholic church, and she wasn't sure she could do that). Funny thing - he always said it was him that got the annulment - turns out it was the ex wife who got it so she could remarry!
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Post by finally~a~mama on Jun 16, 2016 1:07:21 GMT
I'm very sorry your friend is going through this. My father was verbally & emotionally abusive to my mother. And to my my brothers & I. I hope for her children's sake your friend is able to gather the courage to leave him. My mom never left my dad. He eventually left her. Thank God. It was hell living that way and no one should have to go through it - especially innocent children.
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Post by mlynn on Jun 16, 2016 1:19:12 GMT
I would have her get in touch with battered women services in her area. They can counsel her, and they can educate her. If she decides to leave they can help her with building a plan to do so as safely as possible. Just because he has not been physical YET does not mean he will not get physical.
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Post by birukitty on Jun 16, 2016 3:14:40 GMT
A lot of women do not recognize verbal abuse for what it is. I know I didn't for the 7 years I put up with it. I called it everything else-his bad temper, he's drunk so he's acting that way, he had a bad day, all kinds of excuses. It is actually difficult to recognize verbal abuse for what it is if you've never experience it before. These men are master manipulators and are very good at making the women feel it is their fault. There is an amazing book that get to the heart of explaining what this abuse is, how to recognize it, and what to do about it. It's called, ""The Verbally Abusive Relationship, Expanded Third Edition:How to Recognize and how to Respond" by Patricia Evans. It's $11.45 on Amazon. You could order for her and give it to her, but caution her to hide it well. Once she's read it she'll feel like she has a bit more power on her side because she'll understand a lot more what she's dealing with. What made me leave? My ex went from being verbally abusive to being physically abusive too. He did that twice and after the second time I got out. But don't let that fool you. I've read over and over again, that verbal abuse is worse than psychical abuse and I believe it. Bruises and broken bones heal fast, mental issues take much longer. I can still hear my ex's voice in my ear saying, "Why don't you clean the shit out of your ears so you can hear me better?" even though it's been 24 years since I left the bastard. Although, it's very, very faint now. Just barely above hearing range. The fact that he's using her kids is horrible. It's terrible for the kid's mental health. They will need therapy when she leaves this man. The longer she stays the worse it will be for her children. My son was 4 years old when I left my ex and he needed therapy for a number of years because of what we went through. I'm glad I left when I did but as most women say, I wish I had left earlier. Another great resource is The National Domestic Violence Hotline. She can call them 24/7 and talk to them or talk to them online (probably safer to call them). She can reach them at www.thehotline.org or 1-800-799-7233. They can lead her to resources where she is for therapy, help separating from him (this is the most dangerous time and even though he hasn't gotten physical yet that doesn't mean he won't). I urge her to use the resources they provide for help in making a plan before she leaves him, and anything else she needs. I wish your friend lots of luck. There is no reason to live like that. Tell her she is a strong, confident woman who I believe can do great things. Tell her to believe in herself, that's all that matters. If she can do that she can accomplish anything! Debbie in MD.
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Post by manda on Jun 16, 2016 6:21:53 GMT
I think everybody has their breaking point and until you hit that point, you're just not ready to leave the relationship no matter what.
I'm sure many here remember my relationship from years ago. One month he sneakily planned his move out and I begged him to stay while doing some very crazy shit. He stayed. And a couple months later I came home to tell him I terminated our lease and was moving into my own place in three weeks. He tried to get me to stay together and even proposed sometime in the next month or so. But I was just done. It just took me awhile to get there.
Until that moment hits, or the other partner hits that point, there is a lot of back and forth crap that happens.
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smcast
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,475
Location: MN
Mar 18, 2016 14:06:38 GMT
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Post by smcast on Jun 16, 2016 9:52:10 GMT
I decided to divorce when the stress was so great, I developed migraines and epigastric pain so terrible, I couldn't sleep. I started thinking that I could not be a good mother to our daughter under all that stress, verbal and emotional abuse. I did not want my daughter to grow up thinking that kind of behavior by her father was normal or ok.
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smcast
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,475
Location: MN
Mar 18, 2016 14:06:38 GMT
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Post by smcast on Jun 16, 2016 9:56:21 GMT
I should add that her father still behaves that way, far worse actually, to his current wife. He is no longer abusive to me. I wanted to be a strong female role model for my dd. Prove that you can be civil and respectful to each other and not tolerate bad behavior "just because". There are not medals given out in the end for how much you can put up with or how long you can endure.
I was raised Catholic and was not supported by my parents throughout the divorce. They see now what I lived with, but thought that I should just put up with the abuse because I made my choice and that's what you do. I wish I didn't have to have a divorce but that is how it is. We all take different paths and it is never what we intend. We can only control our own actions and not make people into how we wish them to be.
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on Jun 16, 2016 11:08:44 GMT
I left when he cheated. I should have left years before.
Many of my friends who went through difficulties separated first. I did not. I knew I no longer loved my husband and there was no chance of us working things out.
He sounds like he is verbally abusive, a "trial" separation may make it easier to split. Just make sure it is a legal separation. I have many friends who separated and got back together. Those who stayed together seem to have the strongest marriage. A couple who didn't seems that both parties were ready to be divorced and it went relatively smoothly.
I always encourage people to separate. It can really bring clarity.
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Post by peasapie on Jun 16, 2016 11:26:31 GMT
To answer your question specifically, three things came together when I decided to leave: I had lost all respect for him and knew it likely was unsalvageable; he couldn't hear when I told him I needed things to change; and finally, I knew that if I was going to change my life, I preferred to do it at that point in time. My kids were old enough to handle the divorce (starting college/ending high school and busy with their own lives) and I was young enough (mid 40s).
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Lozi
Shy Member
Posts: 36
Jun 27, 2014 10:20:51 GMT
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Post by Lozi on Jun 16, 2016 11:46:54 GMT
Hi Leslie, Please look up Gaslighting This is how some abusers make their victims think they are losing their mind. This happened to me, my breaking point came when my own parents witnessed the verbal abuse on one occasion and I realised this was abuse. Best wishes to your friend.
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