Deleted
Posts: 0
May 13, 2024 4:05:15 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2016 23:33:12 GMT
Years ago, when my DH was previously married, his wife bought a washer and dryer when they were separated and he was living out of the country. Of course, they still had their accounts together and they were still legally married, but in the divorce decree, it was a debt that she assumed (again, I realize that doesn't mean anything from a debtor's standpoint, but he took certain debts and she took others)
Anyway, today he got a call about the debt. It was from 1992 from Montgomery Wards. They (or more precisely someone who bought that debt because Wards has been closed for ages) are trying to collect from us.
Yeah, that's not going to be happening any time soon. Twenty-six years later?
Actually, now that I think about it, I should put a fraud alert on his credit because before he knew who it was, he did confirm his name, address, and social security number so I wonder if it could be some sort of fraud. (And yes, he was stupid to do that, but he's working on 5 hours of sleep and is at the end of an 18 hour shift, so he was caught completely off guard)
|
|
gottapeanow
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,751 
|
Post by gottapeanow on Jul 8, 2016 23:44:19 GMT
Oh no, unbelievable! I can't believe they have the cajones to call after 26 years. That has to be some kind of insane record. Just. Wow.
Yes, enact the fraud alert, just in case, especially with the SS#.
Lisa
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
May 13, 2024 4:05:15 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2016 23:48:18 GMT
Oh no, unbelievable! I can't believe they have the cajones to call after 26 years. That has to be some kind of insane record. Just. Wow. Yes, enact the fraud alert, just in case, especially with the SS#. Lisa My math is wrong - 24 years, but still . . . A little research shows exactly what the statute of limitations is 4 years after the last payment in Texas (which is where the debt originated). They are 20 years too late. |
|
|
|
Post by lurkingsince2001 on Jul 8, 2016 23:57:44 GMT
Did you see that piece done by John Oliver on Zombie debt? Scary stuff. I haven't dug into it much deeper but there are apparently all sorts of loopholes for these shady people to use against people. And in some cases, judges rule in their favor just because the "debtor" doesn't take it seriously enough to appear in court whether it's a legit case or not. Also apparently anyone can buy people's debts these days. How can this stuff be legal?
|
|
|
|
Post by malibou on Jul 9, 2016 0:06:23 GMT
Did you see that piece done by John Oliver on Zombie debt? Scary stuff. I haven't dug into it much deeper but there are apparently all sorts of loopholes for these shady people to use against people. And in some cases, judges rule in their favor just because the "debtor" doesn't take it seriously enough to appear in court whether it's a legit case or not. Also apparently anyone can buy people's debts these days. How can this stuff be legal? Another side of the coin, how about people pay what they owe? Just |
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
May 13, 2024 4:05:15 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2016 0:10:04 GMT
Did you see that piece done by John Oliver on Zombie debt? Scary stuff. I haven't dug into it much deeper but there are apparently all sorts of loopholes for these shady people to use against people. And in some cases, judges rule in their favor just because the "debtor" doesn't take it seriously enough to appear in court whether it's a legit case or not. Also apparently anyone can buy people's debts these days. How can this stuff be legal? Another side of the coin, how about people pay what they owe? Just No, I haven't seen it. And he did pay what he owed. This was a debt that his ex-wife owes. He wasn't living with her or even in the United States at the time. It was right before their divorce and the divorce decree assigns it to her. It's not something that 24 years later he's willing to pay because it's no longer a valid debt. |
|
|
|
Post by bigbundt on Jul 9, 2016 0:13:58 GMT
The statute of limitations only impacts whether they can sue you or not. Debtors are still supposed to pay the debt but at this point a lot of creditors will accept a much lower amount (like 10%) to take care of it.
And companies have been buying debt for years. My first job out of college was at a law firm that did debt recovery for a couple of credit card companies. They bought debt from the originator for pennies on the dollar and then tried to get the pre-collection monies through judgments and garnishments. My SIL works for an office that does a similar business and they make an insane amount of money.
|
|
|
|
Post by bigbundt on Jul 9, 2016 0:18:56 GMT
Another side of the coin, how about people pay what they owe? Just No, I haven't seen it. And he did pay what he owed. This was a debt that his ex-wife owes. He wasn't living with her or even in the United States at the time. It was right before their divorce and the divorce decree assigns it to her. It's not something that 24 years later he's willing to pay because it's no longer a valid debt. They might just be trying to follow some trail to see if they get something out of it, money or information. A few years ago I got a call from a collection agency for something from my exH but once they found out we were divorced for years and haven't even talked to him in as many, wouldn't give me any information. They were just skip tracing to see if they could locate him. |
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
May 13, 2024 4:05:15 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2016 0:20:57 GMT
Oh my.
|
|
|
|
Post by lurkingsince2001 on Jul 9, 2016 0:41:40 GMT
Did you see that piece done by John Oliver on Zombie debt? Scary stuff. I haven't dug into it much deeper but there are apparently all sorts of loopholes for these shady people to use against people. And in some cases, judges rule in their favor just because the "debtor" doesn't take it seriously enough to appear in court whether it's a legit case or not. Also apparently anyone can buy people's debts these days. How can this stuff be legal? Another side of the coin, how about people pay what they owe? Just Oh if only it were always that simple. Identity theft, forged signatures, accounting mistakes and clerical errors really do happen. And part of the growing problem is that it's debt that's actually been paid but because people don't show up to fight it in court, they receive a judgement against them. There's a reason for statutes of limitations and things only staying on your credit report for a certain amount of time. With the piss poor regulation and oversight of the Collections industry as it is right now, anyone not in the business would probably admit that it's a racket. Did you know that even if you are paying your debt, say on a payment plan to a doctor, in some places they can still send the debt to collections without even warning you? How is that fair? And what about the debt that shows up that isn't actually yours? Fighting to get it off your record is time consuming, can involve legal fees, and often lengthens the amount of time the hit is on your report. There are also a myriad of reasons people can't pay a debt, many of which are quite legitimate. Illness, disability, just to name a few. It's not as simple as everyone being losers and grifters and taking advantage of the system or whatever you are implying. And even if it was, the tactics used and laws in place are often shady and cumbersome. |
|
|
|
Post by cmpeter on Jul 9, 2016 0:43:04 GMT
Wow, Wards. Dh bought me a pre-engagement ring there when we were dating, broke and in college. Haven't thought about them in years.
I wouldn't be paying the debt either. That's crazy.
|
|
|
|
Post by malibou on Jul 9, 2016 0:51:38 GMT
Another side of the coin, how about people pay what they owe? Just No, I haven't seen it. And he did pay what he owed. This was a debt that his ex-wife owes. He wasn't living with her or even in the United States at the time. It was right before their divorce and the divorce decree assigns it to her. It's not something that 24 years later he's willing to pay because it's no longer a valid debt. My comment wasn't directed at your statement, that was why I quoted what I did. I am talking about the scores of people that run up credit card debt, or borrow money from others and then decide they aren't going to pay. Many of them will use loopholes to avoid paying what they owe. I should have been more clear. I realise that you know you do not have to pay this. Not because his ex-wife was supposed to, but because the statute of limitations is long past. They are merely calling on the off chance he might pay. Stranger things have happened. However, they cannot threaten anything, all they can do is ask him to pay. It is a violation of the FDCPA to suggest they will litigate, turn it over to an attorney or report it to the credit report agencies. If they call him back, he should ask them to cease calling due to the statute of limitations. J |
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
May 13, 2024 4:05:15 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2016 0:54:30 GMT
Sometimes a debt doesn't get recorded as paid.
A friend went to court with her paid bill and the company still tried to get her.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
May 13, 2024 4:05:15 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2016 0:58:44 GMT
Well the good news is that it's not on his credit report at all even under dismissed debt. I'm pretty sure that all I have to do from a credit report standpoint (if it shows up) is to dispute it because there's no way with the date that they can validate it. The only possibility is that his ex somehow made a payment in the past 4 years, which I highly doubt because even if that was the case, they would contact her, not him.
|
|
|
|
Post by cade387 on Jul 9, 2016 1:03:33 GMT
Just be careful. In some cases, confirming who you are or discussing the debt will restart the clock.
|
|
|
|
Post by malibou on Jul 9, 2016 1:14:23 GMT
Another side of the coin, how about people pay what they owe? Just Oh if only it were always that simple. Identity theft, forged signatures, accounting mistakes and clerical errors really do happen. And part of the growing problem is that it's debt that's actually been paid but because people don't show up to fight it in court, they receive a judgement against them. There's a reason for statutes of limitations and things only staying on your credit report for a certain amount of time. With the piss poor regulation and oversight of the Collections industry as it is right now, anyone not in the business would probably admit that it's a racket. Did you know that even if you are paying your debt, say on a payment plan to a doctor, in some places they can still send the debt to collections without even warning you? How is that fair? And what about the debt that shows up that isn't actually yours? Fighting to get it off your record is time consuming, can involve legal fees, and often lengthens the amount of time the hit is on your report. There are also a myriad of reasons people can't pay a debt, many of which are quite legitimate. Illness, disability, just to name a few. It's not as simple as everyone being losers and grifters and taking advantage of the system or whatever you are implying. And even if it was, the tactics used and laws in place are often shady and cumbersome. Obviously there are things like identity theft and forgeries and it is unfortunate when innocent people get hosed by this. Yes, it can be expensive and time consuming to resolve. Totally sucks. However, there are loads and loads and loads of people that do not pay what they owe. If someone is suing you and you can't be bothered to defend yourself, then yes, a default would be entered. You can go to the court and get that reversed, but it will cost you. You should have minded your business. Sometimes it does happen that a payment plan will get bundled in with those unwilling to pay when the Dr has a high volume business. If you have a payment plan, it should be in writing. If it's not, shame on you. If it is in writing, sending a copy will likely resolve the problem. Illness, and disability are not legitimate reasons for not paying a debt you owe. There is one way to not pay a legitimate debt and that is bankruptcy. Sometimes a person might not have to pay a debt, but that is in cases where legally there isn't really a contract. For instance a minor or mentally incapable person entering into a contract, or there is fraudulent inducement. You also can't sue a person on active duty, and they can get a deferment, but they still owe the debt and will eventually have to pay. J |
|
|
|
Post by mom on Jul 9, 2016 1:19:26 GMT
Just be careful. In some cases, confirming who you are or discussing the debt will restart the clock. for real?? Thats crazy. |
|
|
|
Post by malibou on Jul 9, 2016 1:21:13 GMT
If it shows on his credit report they are in serious violation of the FDCPA.
I don't know of any state where acknowledging the debt will restart the clock. In some states a written promise to pay can restart, but in most, an actual payment, of any size, needs to be made.
J
|
|
|
|
Post by cade387 on Jul 9, 2016 1:28:08 GMT
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
May 13, 2024 4:05:15 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2016 1:34:27 GMT
Thanks - I'm in Texas and the debt was originated in Texas. I'll check the link out. That said, he did not acknowledge the debt - only his identity. When they said where they were from, he said "that's not my debt and I'm done talking to you" and then hung up. I swear, why, of all calls, did he answer that he. He NEVER answers unknown calls and never, ever at work because he works in such a loud environment. I'm almost as ticked at him for confirming his SS# as I am at them for dredging up a 24 year old debt. Maybe more. He should know better. (I don't think he gave it to them, I think they gave it to him and he confirmed, but still. . .) |
|
|
|
Post by malibou on Jul 9, 2016 1:49:52 GMT
You are correct, I blew it. In most states a written acknowledging AND a promise to pay can restart. In a handful you need payment. J |
|
|
|
Post by txdancermom on Jul 9, 2016 2:22:52 GMT
If they start demanding payment, ask them to prove the debt - chances are they won't be able to and if he disputes the debt they will have a hard time making a case to collect it. Chances are they won't take it very far if he says he knows nothing about the balance, and didn't make the purchase, which from what you said is all true.
My guess is someone bought a portfolio of very old bad debts, and they are trying to see if they can get someone to pay. they probably paid next to nothing to buy it off whoever had it on their books, and may be able to make a little on the deal.
|
|
|
|
Post by lurkingsince2001 on Jul 9, 2016 2:26:16 GMT
Oh if only it were always that simple. Identity theft, forged signatures, accounting mistakes and clerical errors really do happen. And part of the growing problem is that it's debt that's actually been paid but because people don't show up to fight it in court, they receive a judgement against them. There's a reason for statutes of limitations and things only staying on your credit report for a certain amount of time. With the piss poor regulation and oversight of the Collections industry as it is right now, anyone not in the business would probably admit that it's a racket. Did you know that even if you are paying your debt, say on a payment plan to a doctor, in some places they can still send the debt to collections without even warning you? How is that fair? And what about the debt that shows up that isn't actually yours? Fighting to get it off your record is time consuming, can involve legal fees, and often lengthens the amount of time the hit is on your report. There are also a myriad of reasons people can't pay a debt, many of which are quite legitimate. Illness, disability, just to name a few. It's not as simple as everyone being losers and grifters and taking advantage of the system or whatever you are implying. And even if it was, the tactics used and laws in place are often shady and cumbersome. Obviously there are things like identity theft and forgeries and it is unfortunate when innocent people get hosed by this. Yes, it can be expensive and time consuming to resolve. Totally sucks. However, there are loads and loads and loads of people that do not pay what they owe. If someone is suing you and you can't be bothered to defend yourself, then yes, a default would be entered. You can go to the court and get that reversed, but it will cost you. You should have minded your business. Sometimes it does happen that a payment plan will get bundled in with those unwilling to pay when the Dr has a high volume business. If you have a payment plan, it should be in writing. If it's not, shame on you. If it is in writing, sending a copy will likely resolve the problem. Illness, and disability are not legitimate reasons for not paying a debt you owe. There is one way to not pay a legitimate debt and that is bankruptcy. Sometimes a person might not have to pay a debt, but that is in cases where legally there isn't really a contract. For instance a minor or mentally incapable person entering into a contract, or there is fraudulent inducement. You also can't sue a person on active duty, and they can get a deferment, but they still owe the debt and will eventually have to pay. J I have known people who were sent to collections for being ONE DAY late with a payment. I have known people who have had debt sent to collections that was not even theirs, or debt they never even knew existed in the first place. Having a plan in writing and even a payment stub booklet didn't work in my case. Remember, some places they can send it on even if you are paying. I happen to think that illness and disability can be decent excuses for not paying, at least in a timely manner. Can't work? That emergency medical procedure bill that costs $50000-200000 and your insurance, if you have it, are being jerks about? Yeah it was life threatening and you won't be able to work for six months but let's get that bill paid right now. Girlfriend forge your signature to get on your credit card and gets all the bills sent to her place while you are away at school? But it's before online billing and you are a little slow figuring out where your mail is going, plenty of time for her to do some damage and ride off into the sunset. 1 out 3 adult Americans are in debt collections or have been within the last year or so. Something like 43 million are in medical debt. These are not all people working the system. Many of these are people who had something unfortunate and unexpected happen to them. Maybe their insurance was a joke, maybe massive legal fees, identity theft, whatever. The problem is lot more complex than just all being losers out to screw someone over. And even if they are losers, that doesn't make the laws any less questionable or the tactics used by these "agencies" (who btw can be just anybody who wants to buy your debt) alright. I sat and listened in on a collections call once where the company rep threatened to come to the guy's house and kill him (the debt was for $250 dollars in case that matters). Have you heard some of the news stories or read some of the articles on these people? Many of them will track down your boss and call him at home about YOUR debt, or your MIL or canvas your neighborhood. There are entire seminars on how to ruin people's lives and convincing people they are being done a favor! There's a reason complaints about such agencies are one of the top ones that state Attorneys General get every year. As for the, if someone is suing you and you can't be bothered to defend yourself then you deserve what you get, several cases I've heard of lately the "debtor" was never even informed of the supposed debt until after the judgment against them. Also, how many can take time off work and go to court, especially if it's in another state, over a supposed debt that was discharged years before or that they know they paid? I think most people would blow that off or think it's a scam. Official looking paperwork can be faked and they might think it's a scam. Should they look into yes, but in the case of zombie debt, it shouldn't even be an issue because it shouldn't exist. I really doubt people deliberately not paying their bills are going to be overly concerned about their credit records or the ravings of some guy on the phone anyway. There's a lot more to debt than not just paying your bills. I have seen good people working themselves into early graves 80 hours a week at multiple jobs never seeing their kids and barely feeding them because they are trying to pay debts from things beyond their control. And I've seen young families implode and lose their asses because the insurance didn't cover like it should have when something goes horribly wrong, and even been told by a billing/collection person that the baby probably should have never been born then, as if the couple could have predicted the complications for the mother. Or how about the angry landlord who is retaliating and making up debt because you reported him for being a slum lord? Your initial response reminded me of something that I would've said years ago. SO I will say to you what I wish someone had said to me back then, if you don't have the experiences to make you bitter about this or to know how bad it can get, you are lucky and to be envied. But it's not all black and white, bad things happen to good people all the time, and when a person paints any large group of society with a particular paintbrush they miss out. You seem to want to blame and I'm certain I come across as wanting to excuse. We will not agree on this. But let me assure you, I am very much against people who don't pay their bills or take advantage (just like I'm bothered by many Go Fund Me and people who don't, as you put it, "take care of their business"). This thread was never about that. I really can't believe that you are okay with something from decades ago coming out of the woodwork. It'd be like student loans popping up after a few decades once many people have thrown the paperwork away. It's not okay. Sorry for the semi-derail burningfeather . I hope nothing comes of the call. |
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
May 13, 2024 4:05:15 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2016 3:06:05 GMT
The good news is that now that he is home, I was able to check the number and there are multiple complaints about them attempting to collect debts that are not valid.
It also gave us a chance to come up with a "I don't verify any information over the phone" script that he should use if he gets another call that catches him off guard (one of those things where you wish you had a chance to think of something before it happens - I had an ADT Security guy come to our home shortly after we bought it to "check to make sure the security system is hooked up correctly" and I stupidly told him we didn't have a security system. FACE PALM.)
I'm just blown away that a credit collector could make a call about a 24 year old debt from Montgomery Wards with a straight face. As another Pea said, I'm sure it's just a group of old debts that was purchased for a penny on the dollar and they are just after anything they can get.
|
|
mimima
Drama Llama
Stay Gold, Ponyboy
Posts: 5,019
|
Post by mimima on Jul 9, 2016 3:09:18 GMT
Wow, Wards. Dh bought me a pre-engagement ring there when we were dating, broke and in college. Haven't thought about them in years. I wouldn't be paying the debt either. That's crazy. We had a dining room table from Wards once upon a time |
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
May 13, 2024 4:05:15 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2016 3:23:26 GMT
Wow, Wards. Dh bought me a pre-engagement ring there when we were dating, broke and in college. Haven't thought about them in years. I wouldn't be paying the debt either. That's crazy. We had a dining room table from Wards once upon a time Yeah, they went out of business in 2001, so 15 years ago. |
|
|
|
Post by malibou on Jul 9, 2016 3:30:53 GMT
I also apologize for the thread hijack burningfeathers.
No where have I suggested that what is going on with burningfeathers is okay. I have offered her advice on how to resolve it. It is not a legitimate debt any longer.
I think my issue is that people are quick to thrash on debt collectors as all being these lying cheating scoundrels, and that is unfair. Not all collection agencies are threatening people or suggesting people sell their organs to pay a $200.00 debt. In absolutely every industry there are unsavory people trying to get ahead at another's expense. Some industries are rather fraught with dishonesty and debt collections definitely attracts those people. But it never applies across the board for any industry.
I am well aware that there is debt that can bury people, particularly medical emergencies. I truly feel for people in that position, and wish there were means to help them either thru deferments or reasonable payment plans. However, I don't think they should just not have to pay.
When I said, how about people pay their debts, I meant it. I am speaking generally and not trying to address the exceptions. There are far more people who legitimately owe debt that they are actively trying to not pay than there are exceptions.
I truly feel like your exceptions are unfortunate situations, but they are exceptions, and there are loads of able bodied people that are not paying their debts. And that is not right.
J
|
|
|
|
Post by cade387 on Jul 9, 2016 6:49:51 GMT
You are correct, I blew it. In most states a written acknowledging AND a promise to pay can restart. In a handful you need payment. J I'm not sure why you are going to "I blew it" comments. In these kinds of posts, it seems to be a likelihood that they happen to live in 1 of the 6 states that would allow it. You never know so I posted the list. I realize it may not be the norm, but it could happen. I agree with another poster about having them confirm the debt. When we had this happen we used a form letter we found online that actually references many of the statues that John Oliver also mentions. These letters have the right way to make them conform in writing that they need to provide you with proof the debt is valid within.30 or 60 days and also states that you are in no way acknowledging the debt. OP, glad to hear it seems to be nothing. It is a good reminder to everyone on how to approach those types of calls, even when you aren't expecting them. |
|
