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Post by hockeyfan06 on Jul 14, 2016 15:30:36 GMT
If you have any advice on this, it would be greatly appreciated. Here goes, it might be long...
I have a history of working for the same financial planning company over the years off and on. Over 3 years ago, I was offered a mortgage assistant job to the top Mortgage Specialist in the country. I loved this job and my boss and worked hard for him for over 1.5 yrs until the company restructured their commission base and he decided to switch careers. Unfortunately he couldn't take me as his assistant in his new job. Just a couple of weeks prior to end of my job with him, I walked down the hallway and spoke with a Financial Planner who was looking for another assistant to add to his team and I was able to secure this position once my old one ended. Everything went well for the first 2 months, honeymoon was over, then it slowing started going downhill. This new boss recently joined the company's Private Wealth division and is the top earner in the office and 2nd overall in the city, 49th in the country. I took a certain amount of pride in that and worked very hard for him until I lost all respect. He was Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. He is the ultimate salesman and charmer with his clients but to us assistants and associates the complete opposite. After the honeymoon was over, for 6 months I endured such unprofessional abusive behavior (I could write a book and I did in my coil binder of which he found and took to get rid of) that by the end I wrote a letter of resignation over my lunch hour, left it on my desk and walked out. He has lied to people in the office in how I left and that it was my fault I walked out on him but everyone knows his history with assistants and the revolving door. The office co-ordinator told me a story how one assistant documented everything he did and went to HR and then the city's Labour Board. Once the investigation was over he was reprimanded and was not allowed to have an assistant for 1 year!
Here is where I need the HR peas, I have an offer of employment from the 2nd top guy in the same office and I was to start today, but the Region Manager is receiving push back from his top guy (my old boss) and does not want to see me working for someone else in the same office. My new boss is trying to fight this but I'm not sure how successful he is going to be. With this company, each Financial Planner is their own business, a contractor of sorts to the company. The Region Manager "owns" the office and overseas the Planners and ensures and encourages the Planners to reach their numbers. He has the power to "approve or not approve" new hires/assistants to the other Planners. So far he is not approving me to work in that office due to the push back of my old boss. What recourse do I have? Can I go to HR and fight this? Should I go to the Labour Board? Any advice would be helpful!
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jul 14, 2016 16:00:51 GMT
Yikes!!!! I would first tell the region mgr that he stole your personal property and discarded it (your binder) and that he has a history as well as ongoing abuse, which is why you left--through no fault if your own.
Let him know you had no issues prior to this guy (can you get a reference from Guy #1?).
That sucks and I wouldn't want to see him either!
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jul 14, 2016 16:02:03 GMT
And I would have definitely reported him.
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Post by kimpossible on Jul 14, 2016 16:10:49 GMT
Wow - what a story! That guy taking your binder was for sure paranoid and knew how he treated people was bad or else he wouldnt have been looking for something like that.
Since he is the top earner, (sadly) there might be pressure from top management to do what he says because they don't want to lose him. However, that does not make what he did right.
I would discuss with HR first, explain that he took your personal property. Acknowledge that you left only because he had made working for him a "hostile working environment" and you would much rather have this new job than have to go to the Labour Board to discuss the working conditions and how you were being denied the right to work there because of this guy.
My opinion only - but I think the bigger question here is, do you want to work in the same office where this guy is walking around? If you thought his behavior was bad before, I would take bets that he will be even more of a jerk should you be allowed back in the door.
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Post by anonrefugee on Jul 14, 2016 16:12:24 GMT
I'm not an HR professional, but have a question.
If you join the new team will you be antagonized by old boss? Do the two men have an ongoing rivalry and you will be a pawn? I watched this with someone else at an old firm.
I understand needing a job, and wanting a specific one. In this case you might be better off letting the head guy resolve the issue and not getting further involved in the decision.
My personal theory is most managing partners are actually aware of other partners and underlings hijinks. They make a decision on what they can live with to better the bottomline. They might say they didn't know "it was so bad", or full scope- but most didn't get to top position without ability to assess people and situations.
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Aug 18, 2025 19:46:23 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2016 16:43:02 GMT
Are you US or Canada? It makes a difference as Canadian employment law is vastly different than US law.
That said, in the US, I don't see any real recourse. As someone posted above, the Region Manager may not want to peeve a top earner even if that means not being able to rehire you. Honestly, since you didn't give any notice, you would not be rehireable in our group of companies (regardless of the reasons you quit with no notice).
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Post by hockeyfan06 on Jul 14, 2016 19:09:36 GMT
Wow - what a story! That guy taking your binder was for sure paranoid and knew how he treated people was bad or else he wouldnt have been looking for something like that. Since he is the top earner, (sadly) there might be pressure from top management to do what he says because they don't want to lose him. However, that does not make what he did right. I would discuss with HR first, explain that he took your personal property. Acknowledge that you left only because he had made working for him a "hostile working environment" and you would much rather have this new job than have to go to the Labour Board to discuss the working conditions and how you were being denied the right to work there because of this guy. My opinion only - but I think the bigger question here is, do you want to work in the same office where this guy is walking around? If you thought his behavior was bad before, I would take bets that he will be even more of a jerk should you be allowed back in the door. My new office would be on the opposite end there would be no reason for him to come to my end of the office. He doesn't eat lunch in the lunchroom, everyday he eats out. So me running into him would be close to nil. He works different hours and is out of town a lot.
I'm going to try and discuss my situation with HR first and see where it goes from there. If need be then the Labour Board.
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Post by hockeyfan06 on Jul 14, 2016 19:12:12 GMT
Are you US or Canada? It makes a difference as Canadian employment law is vastly different than US law. That said, in the US, I don't see any real recourse. As someone posted above, the Region Manager may not want to peeve a top earner even if that means not being able to rehire you. Honestly, since you didn't give any notice, you would not be rehireable in our group of companies (regardless of the reasons you quit with no notice). I'm in Canada. I'm just curious, why is not giving notice make a person non rehireable? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2016 20:49:51 GMT
Are you US or Canada? It makes a difference as Canadian employment law is vastly different than US law. That said, in the US, I don't see any real recourse. As someone posted above, the Region Manager may not want to peeve a top earner even if that means not being able to rehire you. Honestly, since you didn't give any notice, you would not be rehireable in our group of companies (regardless of the reasons you quit with no notice). I'm in Canada. I'm just curious, why is not giving notice make a person non rehireable?
In our case, the general rule of thumb is to give 2 weeks notice as a courtesy so the employer has time to shift the schedule and/or replace you or even let you help train your replacement/show them the ropes of the job. If the employee doesn't, it leaves the employer in a lurch. We do understand the need to quit due to medical issues, etc and take that into account.
But honestly we have found if an employee leaves once with no notice, they will invariably get frustrated/upset/mad about something else and quit again. The few times I made an exception to that policy, the employee has gone on to quit again within a month with no notice the 2nd time either.
With the US being mostly "at will employment" an employer doesn't have to give a reason why someone was not hired/rehired as long is it is not for a protected reason (age, race, gender, religion, disability, etc). It could be simply refused due to them not being liked by an important person in the company. To go to our labor department, you would need to be able to prove you weren't rehired due to one of the protected reasons.
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Post by hockeyfan06 on Jul 15, 2016 1:59:02 GMT
I'm in Canada. I'm just curious, why is not giving notice make a person non rehireable?
In our case, the general rule of thumb is to give 2 weeks notice as a courtesy so the employer has time to shift the schedule and/or replace you or even let you help train your replacement/show them the ropes of the job. If the employee doesn't, it leaves the employer in a lurch. We do understand the need to quit due to medical issues, etc and take that into account.
But honestly we have found if an employee leaves once with no notice, they will invariably get frustrated/upset/mad about something else and quit again. The few times I made an exception to that policy, the employee has gone on to quit again within a month with no notice the 2nd time either.
With the US being mostly "at will employment" an employer doesn't have to give a reason why someone was not hired/rehired as long is it is not for a protected reason (age, race, gender, religion, disability, etc). It could be simply refused due to them not being liked by an important person in the company. To go to our labor department, you would need to be able to prove you weren't rehired due to one of the protected reasons.
If proof was provided by way of documentation and witnesses (of which I both had) would that be taken into consideration even though I walked out without notice? I understand the protected reasons but there could be exceptions given the history of this old boss with prior assistants (especially the one in my story) that has formed a pattern of a continuous revolving door with assistants due to his unprofessionalism as an employer. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2016 2:38:33 GMT
I am in no way referencing your case, just how it would be handled in the US. Hostile work environment also has a specific legal meaning in the US. Unprofessionalism and being a jerk wouldn't fall under that generally. Obviously if he hasn't been allowed to have an assistant due to prior issues, the employer already knows the issues and has accepted them.
Personally if you had come to HR with your issues and we knew the background, it might have some bearing in the future. But honestly HR can override some decisions and not others, depends on how much space they are given at the executive table. In some companies like mine, it is a lot. In others, HR might have no authority/power to overrule executives. But a high performing employee might have enough power to have a say.
When you have a high performing unprofessional jerk who is bringing in more money for the company, assistants can be replaceable. I wish it weren't so, but that's often how the system works. It's really only when you can prove illegal behavior (such as sexual harassment or discrimination due to a protected reason) that the employer becomes liable and might do something about it (suspension, termination, etc)
The decision is between a high performing jerk who seems to be irreplaceable and a revolving door of assistants. Many times high performers have a specific personality type that is hard to deal with for many other types. But there is nothing illegal about it in the US. But your mileage may vary with a Canadian Labour Board claim.
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Post by librarylady on Jul 15, 2016 3:14:06 GMT
I'd go somewhere else. This is a toxic workplace and it will end badly with you being blamed.
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Post by melodyesch on Jul 15, 2016 12:47:30 GMT
I hope you get it straightened out. Did you at any time while working with the jerk involve HR to complain? Did you contact HR when you left to let them know that you were leaving and why? As much as I hate to see assholes get away with treating people right, at this point it just looks like you got fed up and walked out with no notice, without giving anyone in HR a chance to make it right. So a he said/she said kind of thing after you've quit. I don't know if the documentation or the witnesses will help you after the fact since you didn't involve HR. How long has it been since you walked out and are now trying for this job?
Again, I hope you get the job if that's what you want. But in all honestly it seems like maybe someplace else might be a better work environment.
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Post by nicole2112 on Jul 15, 2016 13:06:09 GMT
I'd run away from that entire group if I were you.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2016 13:47:08 GMT
I can't speak from a legal perspective, but I think it would be foolhardy to take that position. Even if the law is on your side, and you fight and win the job, he is going to make your life hell.
Bottom line, he's a top performing revenue producer. He is more valuable to the company and he's the one they are going to want to keep happy.
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Post by kellybelly77 on Jul 15, 2016 14:01:03 GMT
Honestly, since you didn't give any notice, you would not be rehireable in our group of companies (regardless of the reasons you quit with no notice). Quitting with no notice makes you non-rehirable in my company as well. Since I am in corporate HR I get asked to override that on occasion but it's very rare that the VP of that region will allow it. I would bet 95% of the time the non- rehireable stands and only 5% it gets overturned and we hire the person. The VP's mostly feel like there are always plenty of people who want the job and we gave the person a chance once and they blew it and left us in a lurch so they don't allow for second chances too often. They do though look at the circumstances so that is why we do it a few times a year. Honestly, it sounds like a no win situation for you. Bad if you don't get a job but also bad if they allow it because you know he will make your life miserable. It's almost like he is gunning for you already. |
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Post by hockeyfan06 on Jul 16, 2016 0:28:58 GMT
I hope you get it straightened out. Did you at any time while working with the jerk involve HR to complain? Did you contact HR when you left to let them know that you were leaving and why? As much as I hate to see assholes get away with treating people right, at this point it just looks like you got fed up and walked out with no notice, without giving anyone in HR a chance to make it right. So a he said/she said kind of thing after you've quit. I don't know if the documentation or the witnesses will help you after the fact since you didn't involve HR. How long has it been since you walked out and are now trying for this job? Again, I hope you get the job if that's what you want. But in all honestly it seems like maybe someplace else might be a better work environment. No I didn't contacted HR to complain when I left. I was so fed up when I found out he stole my evidence. He had been through this before so he knew to look for any documentation I may have done. (I always kept meticulous notes on all the work I did for him so he knew to look for it because of that as well) I walked out a 1.5 yrs ago, so I thought that was plenty of time to pass.
I think you may be right and is not worth the fight. Someplace else would be better.
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Post by hockeyfan06 on Jul 16, 2016 0:31:50 GMT
I can't speak from a legal perspective, but I think it would be foolhardy to take that position. Even if the law is on your side, and you fight and win the job, he is going to make your life hell. Bottom line, he's a top performing revenue producer. He is more valuable to the company and he's the one they are going to want to keep happy. You are right! But do these a$$holes get away with being so unprofessional, abusive with power etc.? |
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Post by hockeyfan06 on Jul 16, 2016 0:41:27 GMT
I am in no way referencing your case, just how it would be handled in the US. Hostile work environment also has a specific legal meaning in the US. Unprofessionalism and being a jerk wouldn't fall under that generally. Obviously if he hasn't been allowed to have an assistant due to prior issues, the employer already knows the issues and has accepted them. Personally if you had come to HR with your issues and we knew the background, it might have some bearing in the future. But honestly HR can override some decisions and not others, depends on how much space they are given at the executive table. In some companies like mine, it is a lot. In others, HR might have no authority/power to overrule executives. But a high performing employee might have enough power to have a say. When you have a high performing unprofessional jerk who is bringing in more money for the company, assistants can be replaceable. I wish it weren't so, but that's often how the system works. It's really only when you can prove illegal behavior (such as sexual harassment or discrimination due to a protected reason) that the employer becomes liable and might do something about it (suspension, termination, etc) The decision is between a high performing jerk who seems to be irreplaceable and a revolving door of assistants. Many times high performers have a specific personality type that is hard to deal with for many other types. But there is nothing illegal about it in the US. But your mileage may vary with a Canadian Labour Board claim. Thank you for perspective coming from your background of being in HR. I don't believe I would be happy if I won. Besides this new boss would not be paying me enough to put up such a huge fight. Oh well, I do take a certain amount of satisfaction knowing he received his punishment when a previous assistant that took him all the way to the Canadian Labour Board and won! He couldn't have an assistant for a whole year! Thanks again! |
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