Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,015
Jun 25, 2014 20:07:06 GMT
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Post by Sarah*H on Aug 4, 2014 14:58:18 GMT
Secret Serum likely saved ebola patients' livesOn the one hand, fantastic. The rumors appear to be true and a treatment/cure/vaccine is on the horizon. On the other hand, thousands have been sickened. WHO said over the weekend that the epidemic is beyond their ability to control. Two of the top ebola doctors in the world (both African) died over the last couple weeks. Two American healthcare workers get sick and suddenly NIH says "oh by the way, we haven't started human trials but we think this might work" and zips the medication off to them in Africa. I get that it's experimental, not approved, probably only available in limited doses, etc. etc. etc. But all of that was true when the other front line health care workers started getting sick weeks ago.
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sharlag
Drama Llama
I like my artsy with a little bit of fartsy.
Posts: 6,580
Location: Kansas
Jun 26, 2014 12:57:48 GMT
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Post by sharlag on Aug 4, 2014 15:12:52 GMT
Shit!
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caro
Drama Llama
Refupea 1130
Posts: 5,222
Jun 26, 2014 14:10:36 GMT
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Post by caro on Aug 4, 2014 15:17:18 GMT
Good and not good all at the same time. Keep us posted on this.
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Post by liya on Aug 4, 2014 15:27:16 GMT
Hmmm. Interesting.
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Post by anxiousmom on Aug 4, 2014 15:27:45 GMT
I just got finished reading about it...there was a tweet (can I just tell you how super-geeked I am about twitter and following the news??)
It does make me wonder until why Americans were effected before there was even talk of a potential cure. All along the only thing we have heard is that there is no cure, almost 100% death rates, etc. I know understand why the powers that be weren't as concerned as the general public was about transferring the patients back to the US.
I admit, I am not really okay with all the secrecy that surrounds all this.
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Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,015
Jun 25, 2014 20:07:06 GMT
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Post by Sarah*H on Aug 4, 2014 15:36:21 GMT
There is a report out this morning that the Nigerian doctor who treated the American patient (the one who flew and then died) has now come down with the illness. Will he be offered the serum?
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Post by liya on Aug 4, 2014 15:39:36 GMT
There is a report out this morning that the Nigerian doctor who treated the American patient (the one who flew and then died) has now come down with the illness. Will he be offered the serum? I would hope so ...but he's not American?
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 8, 2024 16:44:19 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2014 15:40:12 GMT
Exactly! why wasn't this offered to Dr Sheik Humarr Khan. A doctor who was on the front lines fighting the Ebola and died last week. He's done so much out there to combat this disease. I don't understand why. After all if the serum didn't work,he had nothing to loose but possibly,as we know now,everything to gain. It's tragic. link
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MaryC
Full Member
Posts: 213
Jun 25, 2014 21:52:55 GMT
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Post by MaryC on Aug 4, 2014 15:42:33 GMT
From what I understand from reading other articles about the outbreak, there's been a great deal of resistance to western intervention, that extends to blaming western doctors for deliberately infecting patients or using them for experiments. Part of the reason the epidemic has gotten so out of control is family hiding their affected family members from authorities. I wonder if part of the thought process was that if they offered the experimental drug to non-Americans, and something went horribly wrong, there would be even more of a backlash, more accusations of experimenting on people, and the fallout would make treating / controlling the epidemic even more problematic.
Much as I hate it on humanitarian grounds, there is a real possibility that if the drug had been offered to terrified people who are already suspicious of Americans, and it failed, it could have made an already horrific situation exponentially worse.
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Post by gryroagain on Aug 4, 2014 15:42:35 GMT
I'm not sure it's that nefarious. The blurb I read said they had only 1 dose, it hadn't been tested, and they basically threw it in as a last ditch effort. The reason they used an American is probably because they needed permission, and also the whole "giving citizens of other countries untested, experimental serums" sounds even worse than using it for the first time on an American.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 8, 2024 16:44:19 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2014 15:43:14 GMT
That's a really difficult situation. Can you imagine the outrage there would be if they had given this experimental treatment to anyone, but especially a prominent member of another country, and they had died BECAUSE of it or suffered awful complications?
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Post by gryroagain on Aug 4, 2014 15:43:36 GMT
Mary and I were posting at the same time- but yes, exactly.
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Post by littlemama on Aug 4, 2014 15:46:40 GMT
Sorry, I have no problem with this. This is an experimental drug that they have very little of. It has never been tested on humans. I certainly doubt there is enough to go around to the thousand plus people affected by this outbreak, and I have no issues with it being offered to Americans first.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 8, 2024 16:44:19 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2014 15:47:23 GMT
And what if the first people they tried it on were non-Americans? Can you just imagine the outcry that would follow with accusations of 'experimenting on the Africans'? Yes! Especially given that in the fairly recent past, US government programmes intentionally infected and studied men of African descent with syphilis, and let the studies continue for a very long time after they were already aware there were cures. They essentially used African men as lab animals.
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Judy26
Pearl Clutcher
MOTFY Bitchy Nursemaid
Posts: 2,971
Location: NW PA
Jun 25, 2014 23:50:38 GMT
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Post by Judy26 on Aug 4, 2014 15:48:23 GMT
I started a longer post but Mary said exactly what I was going to say but much more succinctly. Their actions are very understandable to me.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 8, 2024 16:44:19 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2014 15:48:40 GMT
I think this is one of those situations that, one the surface, seems obviously wrong. But, as have been noted here, there are potential ramifications that extend far beyond the health of these individuals. So, as hard as it is for me to say, I think it may have been the right decision.
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Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,015
Jun 25, 2014 20:07:06 GMT
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Post by Sarah*H on Aug 4, 2014 15:52:34 GMT
They gave one dose to the doctor and 2 doses to Nancy Writebol so at the least, the claim that there was only one dose isn't true. I'm also very sure they could have obtained informed consent from either of the other two doctors who died last week, administered it in secret so as not arouse public suspicion, etc.
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Post by lovetodigi on Aug 4, 2014 15:54:26 GMT
I am glad that there is something that exist that offers promise for anyone that might come down with Ebola. That is great considering yesterday we thought there was nothing at all available. I wonder if they gave it to Americans first because of what it might involve to give an untested drug to citizens of another country. There would have to be a lot a channels to go through, I assume. Maybe since it seems to have worked on these two, they will try to get it to the other doctor and go from there. It looks like they got a lot more funding, so could produce more to send to others that come down with it. I wonder how long the process takes to produce the serum? If they have to inject mice and then wait for that to work before they can get what they need, it might take awhile. They probably have some more in stock that they are holding onto just in case one of the medical teams here or someone at CDC should get exposed. It does give hope.
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Post by moveablefeast on Aug 4, 2014 15:59:57 GMT
Years and years ago, they discovered that the blood of Ebola survivors contained antibodies that, when given to patients, increased their odds of survival. The Zairean doctors were willing to do the treatment, the Americans were not.
The problem was that it was untested, and in the field posed risks of transmitting other infectious diseases because it is hard to test for those things in the field. You could save someone from Ebola and infect them with HIV.
I think medical ethics is a big holdup here.
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Nink
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,955
Location: North Idaho
Jul 1, 2014 23:30:44 GMT
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Post by Nink on Aug 4, 2014 16:38:03 GMT
They gave one dose to the doctor and 2 doses to Nancy Writebol so at the least, the claim that there was only one dose isn't true. I'm also very sure they could have obtained informed consent from either of the other two doctors who died last week, administered it in secret so as not arouse public suspicion, etc. I too read that there was only enough treatment for one patient, so the Dr. said to give the treatment to Nancy. The Dr. got another form of treatment having to do with a blood transfusion from a patient that had had Ebola, but recovered. A 14 yr old boy I believe.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 8, 2024 16:44:19 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2014 16:44:57 GMT
There is a huge legal issue here and that is what has been holding this up. I don't believe it was nefarious with the government at all. Just a big legal nightmare.
And Ebola doesn't have a close to 100% mortality rare like someone claimed. If I remember correctly it is 60%. Still horrific but not absolute.
And honestly a lot of the issues lie with the drug companies. You would not believe what they sit on and don't put out there. Big pharma is disgusting. That is where the blame lies.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 8, 2024 16:44:19 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2014 16:45:51 GMT
They gave one dose to the doctor and 2 doses to Nancy Writebol so at the least, the claim that there was only one dose isn't true. I'm also very sure they could have obtained informed consent from either of the other two doctors who died last week, administered it in secret so as not arouse public suspicion, etc. I too read that there was only enough treatment for one patient, so the Dr. said to give the treatment to Nancy. The Dr. got another form of treatment having to do with a blood transfusion from a patient that had had Ebola, but recovered. A 14 yr old boy I believe. Yes that was what was originally reported. But now this other story is being told.
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Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,015
Jun 25, 2014 20:07:06 GMT
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Post by Sarah*H on Aug 4, 2014 16:45:59 GMT
According to the new article on CNN, those first reports were untrue. Brantly initially said it should be given to Writebol but when his condition deteriorated, he took it. She was later given a dose of the same medication and when she didn't respond as quickly, was given a second dose.
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Post by anonrefugee on Aug 4, 2014 16:54:35 GMT
I read they have a handful of doses and it had never before been administered to a human. And even now some experts aren't entirely ready to say it worked, because most "cures" aren't as fast acting as this appeared to be.
I read it was a private company that developed the serum, and was in process if testing it.
It's rather egotistical to assume USA has the ability to develop something like this and withhold it. We are not omnipotent. Acting like CDC/US government was waiting for an American to save is a little ridiculous and implies we can control everything.
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Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,015
Jun 25, 2014 20:07:06 GMT
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Post by Sarah*H on Aug 4, 2014 17:04:18 GMT
I'm not sure why it's ridiculous when it appears that's exactly what happened. Maybe there are legalities and ethical issues or logistical issues and I'm sure we'll be made aware of those in coming days but the NIH did choose to give these doses to two American healthcare workers rather than any of the other healthcare workers who got sick over the last few weeks. FWIW, when the initial report of the serum came out (the one where Dr. Brantly asked for it to be given to Writebol), the spokesperson for the CDC said they didn't know about it. American doctor foregoes treatment
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 8, 2024 16:44:19 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2014 17:11:27 GMT
After I learned about how the US drug companies and government blocked access to AIDS drugs for millions of Africans in the late 90s until 2005, I am not surprised to see this. cyber.law.harvard.edu/people/tfisher/South%20Africa.pdfI predict we will hear, years from now, that the only reason this drug wasn't being distributed is because the manufacturer wanted to charge outrageous prices at the same time holding exclusive rights to production. Yes, this is a capitalist country. But at what point does a company no longer get to hold the keys to people's lives for ransom? Other countries are still having to fight in court for the right to make generic AIDS drugs. Ridiculous. Exactly. These pharma companies do shady shady stuff. Don't even get me started on generics. The amount of time these companies are allowed to charge outrageous prices is ridiculous.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 8, 2024 16:44:19 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2014 17:12:32 GMT
What is a better solution? Should pharmaceutical companies be non-profit? Have their profits limited?
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 8, 2024 16:44:19 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2014 17:13:57 GMT
What is a better solution? Should pharmaceutical companies be non-profit? Have their profits limited? They need to be under better controls period. Seriously the industry is dirty dirty dirty. Non profit would not be a bad idea honestly.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 8, 2024 16:44:19 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2014 17:14:43 GMT
Why would anyone work for 10+ years to develop a drug out of the goodness of their hearts?
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 8, 2024 16:44:19 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2014 17:16:49 GMT
Why would anyone work for 10+ years to develop a drug out of the goodness of their hearts? Non profit doesn't mean people don't get paid. I'm on some majorly expensive medication and have had to deal directly with the drug companies and have done research myself and read others. I don't like big pharma and never will. The profits are ridiculous. But that is my opinion. Shrug.
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